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View Full Version : Please Explain a Bard



TheTarap
03-05-2010, 09:56 AM
What's the expected task of a bard, in general? I read so far that they are diverse, use UMD, songs, and possibly a melee weapon to solve problems.

If not that question, then please answer: Can you give me a quick summary of why Virtuoso pales in comparison to the other two types? It is the impression I get. So far, what I piece together is:
Virtuoso: More songs, charm stuff, but nobody really cares about Crowd Control so it fails until the high levels/your swarmed/the healer can't heal enough in time and others haven't any ability to top themselves up with wands
Warchanter: Attack-related buff, good at melee. Is it?
Spellsinger: Reducing mana costs.. Will someone enlighten me as to if this effect is stackable? I'd like to see if it is possible to stack plenty of them into a group with a glass cannon for magic, and get someone to hold aggro while the glass cannon spams like no tomorrow.

On a not so related topic, but one I have always wondered on, this time relating to bows. How is PVP like? Is it in theory possible to get a load of players, stand them in a line, and get them to fire shots in a co-ordinated movement to wipe out targets? In any game, that's always my favourite choice of tactics for some odd reason. I like getting hits on everything, no matter how weak the hit may be, and get others to do it, so that it accumulates to lots of damage. Mhm.

Anyways, thanks in advance to whoever replies, and thanks to whoever reads and sorry for wasting a couple minutes of your life.

Garseya
03-05-2010, 10:22 AM
What's the expected task of a bard, in general? I read so far that they are diverse, use UMD, songs, and possibly a melee weapon to solve problems.

1.) Thats pretty much it. Bards are there for DPS damage, songs to bolster their allies abilities and skills. To play a role as a backup healer or in some instances primary healer, crowd control. Jack of all trades- master of some.

Virtuoso: More songs, charm stuff, but nobody really cares about Crowd Control so it fails until the high levels/your swarmed/the healer can't heal enough in time and others haven't any ability to top themselves up with wands

2.) I've never had a virtuoso.

Warchanter: Attack-related buff, good at melee. Is it?

3.) My Bard, Ryuzoji followed this path fairly closely. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=177657
I didnt take piercing or Khopesh and stuck with longswords. I'm super happy with him. He gets alot of group requests. His crowd control is superb. I've had much success in high end quests such as Vale quests and Inspired Quater.

Spellsinger: Reducing mana costs.. Will someone enlighten me as to if this effect is stackable?

4.) Usually you only have one bard in a group. The effect in not stackable from what I have observed, but thats not verified.

How is PVP like? Is it in theory possible to get a load of players, stand them in a line, and get them to fire shots in a co-ordinated movement to wipe out targets?

5.) In theroy, it's possible. I've seen lots of imaginative PvP take place in Stormreach. If cat herding is your thing, knock yourself out!

Anyways, thanks in advance to whoever replies, and thanks to whoever reads and sorry for wasting a couple minutes of your life.

6.) It's never a waste of my time to try and give advice! Good luck and have fun!



Happy Loots!

Club'in
03-05-2010, 10:27 AM
I think Johnny absolutely nails the essence of a bard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YV5h6xzGKo

gavagai
03-05-2010, 10:35 AM
If not that question, then please answer: Can you give me a quick summary of why Virtuoso pales in comparison to the other two types? It is the impression I get.

The popular belief about Virtuoso is that it gives no particular advantage, although in certain limited quests and contexts the Virtuoso can, in fact, outpace its brethren in utility.

But here are basic reasons why folks frown upon Virts:
a. Their basic claim to fame is a more powerful song. However, all bards have extremely powerful songs by virtue of their high Perform skill; the Virt's advantage is a debuff to the song which isn't entirely useful in many party dynamics when it often takes longer to sing enthrall than to kill many of the mobs.

b. So a Virt either then has to contribute via casting or melee for those times when singing debuffs isn't useful. But here the Spellsinger gets rather substantial casting benefits over the Virt, and the Warchanter also gets substantial melee-related benefits over the Virt. So the Virt isn't as useful as it could be, assuming it relies on spells and/or melee as much as any other bard.

c. People like Spellsinger and Warchanters because they are selfish, because those two make them better. While people may not consciously think this, when they see a Spellsinger or Warchanter they see "better buffs for me!" Spellchanter: +1DC and cheaper spells! Warchanter: 5/- damage reduction and +1 to-hit, +2 to damage! When they see a Virt they think "Oh no, are we going to have to wait for the enthrall song in every room?"

That said, Virts have easy access to Song of the Dead and Song of the Maker. In quests like Delara's Virtuosos can be great for calming the hordes of undead (and particularly those irritating Arcus archers).


How is PVP like? Is it in theory possible to get a load of players, stand them in a line, and get them to fire shots in a co-ordinated movement to wipe out targets? In any game, that's always my favourite choice of tactics for some odd reason. I like getting hits on everything, no matter how weak the hit may be, and get others to do it, so that it accumulates to lots of damage. Mhm.

While coordinated ranged specced units are really fun in MMOs with robust guild/nation warfare, DDO's PvP is more casual and more unbalanced. So its rare to find people coordinating builds and forming groups that play off each others strengths.

Also, ranged itself is generally weak in PvP and in PvE, and is used mostly for attrition-style tactical or precision strikes. The exception is an Arcane Archer with Manyshot that can do substantial damage in 20 second bursts. Now if you were to get a number of archers with the Manyshot feat into PvP, you could do substantial damage -- but arguably not the same amount of devastation that a single caster can make.

From my experience, high level casters tend to rule in DDOs PvP. In other MMOs, casters can spam powers that have 100% effect, but rather mild effects: A short stun, or some big damage numbers. In D&D, spells get to be extremely powerful, but that power is offset by a player's saving throw against that power, making the chance of success somewhere between 95% and 5%.

So while high-level casters in other games cast spells that cause big numbers, high level casters in DDO cast a spell that instantly kills you and those around you (if you fail saves) or turns you into stone, or holds you for 15-30 seconds, &c.

But check it out. It's not really a big focus in the game, but can be a fun way to fiddle with your character.

tihocan
03-05-2010, 12:09 PM
In short, people expect bards to sing Inspire Courage + Competence. That's about it. Then, depending on your build, you should be able to help with at least one of (1) DPS, (2) Healing, or (3) Crowd-Control.
Virtuoso is overall weaker than the other 2 because it is focused on Crowd-Control, which, although extremely useful in some situations, is rarely actually needed to smoothly run a quest/raid.