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AlhoraRora
03-01-2010, 05:40 PM
new player (obviously) and a little overwhelmed with so much to the character creation and leveling. I'm following the warchanter build http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2789906&postcount=6 and I have three enhancement points. Looking at the list I see ones from other disciplines like Barbarian but also other races like Elf. Does that mean only an Elf takes those enhancements? And do I "buy" them from the Barbarian (for example) trainer? Are they listed in any order to acquire them? I think obviously when it says "Extra Song II" I buy the first level and later on the second becomes available to purchase but just wanted to check. Thanks!

Mockduck
03-01-2010, 06:26 PM
You can only take enhancements that are for everybody, your race or your class. Classes if you multiclass.

The system opens up additional enhancement options based on your level, the number of enhancement points you've spent so far, the enhancements you've already chosen (some enhancements require other enhancements to unlock) and your class (if you take a level of another class, those enhancements open up to you.

One nice thing about the enhancement system is that it's pretty low-stress: It's easy to redo your enhancements by paying a bit of plat (there's also a limit on how often you can do this, once per week?)

So, play around with it!

Another good tip is to turn on "Show Unavailable" in the enhancement box. It'll tell you what you will be able to get in the future and what's needed to get it.

AlhoraRora
03-01-2010, 06:46 PM
Appreciate knowing that it is a low stress selection. Just to further clarify (and I'm sorry I'm dense about this!) does the title of the build "Warchanter (Bard 18/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1)" mean I'm taking 18 enhancements from Bard, and 1 from Fighter and Barbarian?

Also what order do I take them from the list in the build:

Enhancements (Barbarian): Sprint Boost I, Toughness I
Enhancements (Bard): Extra Song II, Inspired Attack III, Inspired Bravery II, Inspired Damage III, Lingering Song III, Lyric of Incredible Song I, Lyric of Song I, Song Magic II, Wand and Scroll Mastery II, Warchanter I
Enhancements (Fighter): Haste Boost I
Enhancements (Drow): Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Axe Attack I, Axe Damage I, Constitution I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense I
Enhancements (Elf): Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II, Valenar Elf Melee Attack I, Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning I, Guile II, Hero's Companion III, Luck (Fortitude) I, Luck (Reflex) I, Luck (Will) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptatability Strength I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Construct Thinking I, Great Weapon Aptitude II, Hardiness I, Healer's Friend II, Racial Toughness II

Thank you!

Shishizaru
03-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Appreciate knowing that it is a low stress selection. Just to further clarify (and I'm sorry I'm dense about this!) does the title of the build "Warchanter (Bard 18/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1)" mean I'm taking 18 enhancements from Bard, and 1 from Fighter and Barbarian?

Also what order do I take them from the list in the build:

Enhancements (Barbarian): Sprint Boost I, Toughness I
Enhancements (Bard): Extra Song II, Inspired Attack III, Inspired Bravery II, Inspired Damage III, Lingering Song III, Lyric of Incredible Song I, Lyric of Song I, Song Magic II, Wand and Scroll Mastery II, Warchanter I
Enhancements (Fighter): Haste Boost I
Enhancements (Drow): Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Axe Attack I, Axe Damage I, Constitution I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense I
Enhancements (Elf): Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II, Valenar Elf Melee Attack I, Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning I, Guile II, Hero's Companion III, Luck (Fortitude) I, Luck (Reflex) I, Luck (Will) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptatability Strength I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Construct Thinking I, Great Weapon Aptitude II, Hardiness I, Healer's Friend II, Racial Toughness II

Thank you!

Not quite. Bard 18/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1 means you are taking 18 levels of Bard, 1 level of Fighter and 1 level of Barbarian. (The Warchanter part is the only part that refers to Enhancements at all).

You get 4 Action Points per level, which are what you use to purchase Enhancements. Unfortunately, the guide you have linked to does not tell you what enhancements to take at what level. Moreover, the list merely suggests what you ought to take. Notice how there are separate sections for each race? The poster was merely suggesting what you should take should you be that particular race. You CANNOT take all the enhancements on that list.

The post is trying to give you an overview of the Warchanter PrE (a line of Bard Enhancements). It provides only a rough skeleton of a build which may be difficult for a new player to work with.

My suggestion is to decide first whether you want to be THF (Two-handed fighting) or TWF (Two-weapon fighting). There are pro's and con's to both, so I suggest asking about or researching the different styles to see which one suits you.

After deciding that, pick a race. Race is likely to be influenced by the above choice (e.g. TWF'ers may choose Human for the extra feat to pick up Khopesh proficiency).

Once you have that down, peruse the Bard forums for some sample builds. Warchanter is by far the most common Bard PrE, so there are many many builds on those boards. Alternately, you could try asking for a build in this thread once you've got the above set. Someone more skilled then I may offer you a comprehensive build which will be much easier to follow then what you're using now. :D

AlhoraRora
03-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Shoot, I picked this build out of the Builds for New Player section so I thought it would be easier! I have already picked my Race, Human, and I've already done some quests so I hope to not start over. I do try to read the forums to learn about everything but I want to play the actual game too! I've been using a long sword and a bow. Is that the TWF to which you are referring? I guess I will post to bard forum and ask for a more specific build. I appreciate the willingness to help new players because there is so much to learn! I'm use to being able to pick up games but this one has a steeper learning curve.

Shishizaru
03-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Shoot, I picked this build out of the Builds for New Player section so I thought it would be easier! I have already picked my Race, Human, and I've already done some quests so I hope to not start over. I do try to read the forums to learn about everything but I want to play the actual game too! I've been using a long sword and a bow. Is that the TWF to which you are referring? I guess I will post to bard forum and ask for a more specific build. I appreciate the willingness to help new players because there is so much to learn! I'm use to being able to pick up games but this one has a steeper learning curve.

TWF is actually a chain of feats (Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Greater Two Weapon Fighting). Taking the feats (or planning to) is what's referred to as TWF.

The only possible "un-fixable" on your Bard would be the starting stats (can be fixed if you're willing to spend real money). Go ahead and post your starting stats (base stats, don't include bonuses from gear or level ups) here or in the Bard forums and someone can tell you if you're okay or not. Thing is, if you followed the link you posted, you DEX is far too low to go TWF. I do believe THF Warchanters are viable, so if you are completely opposed to rerolling, go ahead and look for (or ask for) one of those.

AlhoraRora
03-01-2010, 08:17 PM
I appreciate any help.
here is what I have so far:

28-PT BUILD
Class: Bard
Race: human
Alignment: neutral

Strength 17
Dexterity 8
Constitution 16
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 8
Charisma 13

Enhancements: Bard Extra Song 1 (only one I picked so far)

Feats: Toughness and extend

and I followed this:
Skills (except Human and Drow): Max out UMD, Perform, Concentration, Balance, get one rank in Tumble and spend the rest into Jump.
Skills (Human and Drow): Same, but also max out Haggle.

I would prefer to not start over but I will if I need to for the long run.
Thanks again!

tihocan
03-01-2010, 08:35 PM
Well sorry, it looks like I (this is my build you're following) need to give some more explanation about enhancements. There is a short piece of text in the "README FIRST" part of the first post in the thread, that gives some bits of info, but it doesn't answer all your questions. I'll add more later (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow).

You don't have to start over. Just pick the enhancements listed for your race and classes (obviously you can't pick barbarian or fighter enhancements until you get these classes), and when you have extra points left, spend them where you think you'd like them, and just respec later if you don't like it after all.
It's also good idea to not spend all your APs so you can take important enhancements as soon as they become available after leveling up. But it's not a huge deal either.

katana_one
03-01-2010, 08:37 PM
Looks like you're still only level one? If so, I really wouldn't worry about re-rolling.

Heck, I leveled my ranger to 6 before re-rolling him. Then I re-rolled him about 4 more times before finally deciding I had a build I could work with.

Shishizaru
03-01-2010, 08:41 PM
Question: Are you Human or Drow? (or neither). I'm guessing Human as you've listed two feats, but you could also be level 3 (or higher).

Your DEX is definitely too low for TWF (the second feat in the chain requires a base of 17. That includes tomes, but not enhancements or gear). If you are okay with sacrificing a little DPS and going THF, you can still make this build work. Good STR and a high CON (yay, you avoided the common new player pitfall!) means you will be able to melee on the front lines without getting killed too quickly.

The skills advice is solid. UMD and Perform are your "must haves." Balance is always good (you will get up faster when tripped/greased/etc). Jump is nice to have but not "essential." Tumble and Haggle are also kind of extraneous skills that you should/can take if you have the points. Put points into Concentration before the fluff skills if you plan on combat casting. Keep in mind that most bards (especially Warchanters) tend to focus on buffs only. Your spell DC's are based off your CHA. Without maxing your CHA (and hurting your melee capability), your spells won't land as often as similarly leveled casters.

As far as Enhancements go, I'd suggest the Extra Song line, the Wand/Scroll Mastery line and all of the Song enhancements (the +attack, +damage etc. Longer song durations are nice if you have the points for it, although I might take the Toughness line(s) first/instead). The reasoning is that bards are most prized for their buffs (both songs and spells). It's hard to beat a bard's songs in terms of buffs, and they can't even be dispelled by Beholders. As a Warchanter, your Ironskin Chant will help keep the part alive too. Your songs are your bread and butter, so upgrade them as best you can.

tihocan
03-01-2010, 09:40 PM
I'll add more later (maybe tonight, maybe tomorrow).
I came up with a first version with more info. Read this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2795536&postcount=14

AlhoraRora
03-02-2010, 12:52 AM
Question: Are you Human or Drow? (or neither). I'm guessing Human as you've listed two feats, but you could also be level 3 (or higher).

Your DEX is definitely too low for TWF (the second feat in the chain requires a base of 17. That includes tomes, but not enhancements or gear). If you are okay with sacrificing a little DPS and going THF, you can still make this build work. Good STR and a high CON (yay, you avoided the common new player pitfall!) means you will be able to melee on the front lines without getting killed too quickly.

The skills advice is solid. UMD and Perform are your "must haves." Balance is always good (you will get up faster when tripped/greased/etc). Jump is nice to have but not "essential." Tumble and Haggle are also kind of extraneous skills that you should/can take if you have the points. Put points into Concentration before the fluff skills if you plan on combat casting. Keep in mind that most bards (especially Warchanters) tend to focus on buffs only. Your spell DC's are based off your CHA. Without maxing your CHA (and hurting your melee capability), your spells won't land as often as similarly leveled casters.

As far as Enhancements go, I'd suggest the Extra Song line, the Wand/Scroll Mastery line and all of the Song enhancements (the +attack, +damage etc. Longer song durations are nice if you have the points for it, although I might take the Toughness line(s) first/instead). The reasoning is that bards are most prized for their buffs (both songs and spells). It's hard to beat a bard's songs in terms of buffs, and they can't even be dispelled by Beholders. As a Warchanter, your Ironskin Chant will help keep the part alive too. Your songs are your bread and butter, so upgrade them as best you can.

Thank you I will refer back to this information. The character is human who is Level one (and like rank 3 I think). I'm fine with going forward with the two hand weapon.

AlhoraRora
03-02-2010, 12:56 AM
Looks like you're still only level one? If so, I really wouldn't worry about re-rolling.

Heck, I leveled my ranger to 6 before re-rolling him. Then I re-rolled him about 4 more times before finally deciding I had a build I could work with.

I just want to go forward with something, I've done the first few quests now on two characters and want to see the next ones :) I'm not opposed to re-rolling at some point and maybe this one will be the learner character for me or maybe it will end up being my main. My gaming time is kind of limited and I'm a casual gamer so the hour or so I've spent doesn't seem like much probably (and I know it isn't) but I would rather go forward as it seems that so far I've got a viable build.

AlhoraRora
03-02-2010, 01:01 AM
I came up with a first version with more info. Read this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2795536&postcount=14

Thank you, and thank you for posting your build. The new additional information is very helpful in explaining. There is so much to take in for character building in this game and I think I played D&D pen and paper once when I was in middle school which was a long time ago!

MrkGrismer
03-02-2010, 09:05 AM
(there's also a limit on how often you can do this, once per week?)

I just reset enhancements on one of my characters and the game said "You must wait 3 days before doing this again." So I guess you could do it twice a week.

AlhoraRora
03-03-2010, 11:07 AM
Another question on this: at which level do I take the 1 levels of Barbarian and Fighter? Thanks!

tihocan
03-03-2010, 11:12 AM
Another question on this: at which level do I take the 1 levels of Barbarian and Fighter? Thanks!
It's the "Class Split" info just above the alignment section (which I should rename into "Class Progression", may be clearer).

AlhoraRora
03-03-2010, 11:22 AM
thank you, sorry I missed it :)