PDA

View Full Version : Bards should get a sonic-based Save-or-Die spell



Noctus
02-20-2010, 03:28 PM
Hey!

I think that bards should have a sonic-based Save-or-Die Spell at their disposal. To give them more interesting spell choices in the high levels, while staying thematically true to the class.

A nice visual example of how this spell could look like would be found in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-Sa8aVW7w)video at 1:05, which would be a good example of a failed Fort-Save. :cool:


With the following game mechanics as a possible example:


Sonic Cascade

Cooldown: 5 seconds
Spell Point Cost:
Target: Foe
Level:
6 (Bard (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Class:Bard))
Components: Somatic, Verbal
School: Evocation (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Category:Evocation_Spells)
Metamagic: Enlarge (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Enlarge_Spell), Heighten (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Heighten_Spell), Quicken (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Quicken_Spell)
Spell Resistance: Yes
Slays one living enemy. Those that succeed on a Fortitude (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Glossary:Fortitude_Save) save instead are deafened for 6 secounds.
Happy Bard´ing!

Zippo
02-20-2010, 03:37 PM
So you're wanting a bard'esc type version of wail of the banshee??? ......

I could go for that.

Symar-FangofLloth
02-20-2010, 03:38 PM
You mean like, Wail of the Banshee? :p

Noctus
02-20-2010, 04:48 PM
You mean like, Wail of the Banshee? :p

Single target would be enough.


Basically somethign on the lines of Finger or Destruction.

Symar-FangofLloth
02-20-2010, 04:52 PM
I mentioned that because Wail is a sonic-based save or die already, :p.

However, bards get no such luck in tabletop, though there are a lot more sonic attacks that they should have access to.

GeneralDiomedes
02-20-2010, 05:22 PM
How about .. Wail of Steven Tyler?

knightgf
02-20-2010, 05:54 PM
Should be more like a bardic song at level 20, it costs 10SP and 1 song to play it, and requires 24 ranks in the perform skill(Not total modifier) to use. The effects speak for themselves otherwise, save or die spell, save means only deafened, exc, except its AoE instead of single target.

Irinis
02-20-2010, 06:06 PM
Bards need more dev love. That's for sure.

I understand the idea behind the bard was a jack of all trades master of none, but that's forgetting that bards ARE by name, masters of music. That's what it is to be a Bard - musical.

Sorcerors have natural talent at magic and are given more sp than wizards. Bards have natural talent at sonic and are given no high level sonic spells?

Music = sonic and cc. They should be able to have equal skill to a wizard at cc, have access to level 9 sonic spells (maybe less spell slots for levels7-9 because they're focused on sonic and cc/healing not nuking) and the devs should stop trying to nerf cc. Bards should have to choose between mass heal, mass spell resist, etc - and sonic nuke spells.

If done this way, Warchanters might not have the CHA high enough to access level 9 spells, so they would have to actually sacrifice something valuable to gain their valuable specialized songs. Spellsingers would be cc/healing/sonic and valued in parties but give up Warchanter. Virtuosos would have the flexibility to be more personal DPS or more sonic-specced and still have excellent cc for parties.

Also, it's backwards to have the bard capstone named "musical prodigy" because musical prodigies in the real world are the ones where skill shows up early in life not at the height of the career. Really capstone should be Master of Music and have the bard past life be Musical Prodigy.

Schwarzie
02-20-2010, 06:14 PM
Should be more like a bardic song at level 20, it costs 10SP and 1 song to play it, and requires 24 ranks in the perform skill(Not total modifier) to use. The effects speak for themselves otherwise, save or die spell, save means only deafened, exc, except its AoE instead of single target.

If the DCs are calculated like the ones for fascinate this would even work easy in most High level content. But it shouldnt be a Death effect like FoD. Implosion kills without being a Death effect, too.

Anderei
02-20-2010, 06:21 PM
Should be more like a bardic song at level 20, it costs 10SP and 1 song to play it, and requires 24 ranks in the perform skill(Not total modifier) to use. The effects speak for themselves otherwise, save or die spell, save means only deafened, exc, except its AoE instead of single target.

Can't you train 23 ranks max? They could have uber-something for 24 ranks...

Symar-FangofLloth
02-20-2010, 06:30 PM
Bards need more dev love. That's for sure.

Music = sonic and cc. They should be able to have equal skill to a wizard at cc, have access to level 9 sonic spells


All bards really need is their PrEs to go to tier 3. More spells would be nice, but they're okay.

And, to spells that go higher than level 6....
No, no, no. That is a drastic change to the framework of the class. They would no longer be Bards, under the D&D 3/3.5 rules. What with the drastic rebalancing that would require.
Now, getting access to Sor/Wiz level 7 or 8 spells, but granted as a level 6 Bard spell, that's a different story. Things like that happen.


Can't you train 23 ranks max? They could have uber-something for 24 ranks...

Yeah, that made me laugh a little, too.

knightgf
02-20-2010, 08:42 PM
And, to spells that go higher than level 6....
No, no, no. That is a drastic change to the framework of the class. They would no longer be Bards, under the D&D 3/3.5 rules. What with the drastic rebalancing that would require.


Your forgetting that we don't play purely by 3.0/3.5/4.0/1.0/9000.0 rules. Turbine plays DDO:EU the way it wants to. Sure, maybe it does base some of their rules from certain versions of Dungeons and Dragons, but in the computer world, and on Turbine's management, its a whole new Dungeons and Dragons Game.

And yes, I did miscalculate the trained ranks by 1, I forgot that we start at level 1 instead of 0.

tomfar72
02-20-2010, 08:45 PM
OMG, Death By Rick-Roll...We're no stangers to love.......SPLAT!!!! I love it!!!

Freeman
02-20-2010, 08:56 PM
OMG, Death By Rick-Roll...We're no stangers to love.......SPLAT!!!! I love it!!!

LOL, thanks for the laugh.

I'd like to see a version of this spell, obviously with limited choices, but it would still be nice:


Shadow Evocation
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Brd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: Yes

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. (For a spell with more than one level, use the best one applicable to you.)

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Symar-FangofLloth
02-20-2010, 09:48 PM
Your forgetting that we don't play purely by 3.0/3.5/4.0/1.0/9000.0 rules.

I know. But that's a drastic change, and one I don't think WotC would approve.




I'd like to see a version of this spell, obviously with limited choices, but it would still be nice:

I'd LOVE the Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration spells.
I took them on my most recent tabletop sorc, with focus in illusions, and they add a nice bit of versatility at the cost of two saves on the spell (albeit with a higher DC).
But I think we'd need more variety with other spells in game first.

sirgog
02-20-2010, 09:57 PM
I could get behind a new capstone that adds Wail of the Banshee to your 6th level Bard spells.

Aashrym
02-20-2010, 10:12 PM
Fugue of Tvash-Prull(DR328 p70) LVL 4 Bard

<Evoc[sonic], VSF(250gp tiny platinum violin bow),
1StdAct, Medium-range, Concentration up to
1rnd/lvl, WillNeg, SR applies>
– All creatures within a 30’ radius Spread are
affected by discordant sound. Those that
make their save receive a –2 penalty on their
attack rolls and skill checks while in the area
of effect.
Creatures that fail their saving throw & who
remain in the area of effect are affected each
round. The caster’s Perform check each
round and can choose one effect up to the
check’s result. If the caster is doing a
Perform check with Keyboard Instruments,
Percussion Instruments, String Instruments,
or Wind Instruments, there is a +2
Circumstance bonus on the check.
Perform
Check Effect
15 3d6 nonlethal damage
20 3d6 Sonic damage
25 Shaken for 1 round, Deafened for 1
round, or Knocked Down.
30 Nauseated for 1 round, Blinded for 1
round, or Frightened for 1 round.
35 Stunned for 1 round.
40 1d6 ability damage from a random
ability score.
45 Attacks the nearest target.
50 Gains 1d4 Negative Levels.
55 Feebleminded.
60 Slain

If there was a way to implement it.

Anderei
02-21-2010, 03:17 AM
New song: Rhapsody of Planar Aligning:

Kills all evil on Eberron, moves all the loot in front of the dungeons, closes all Gates to Xoriat (Heck, *destroys* Xoriat), aligns Eberron, makes Shroud item pop out for free out of the Eldrich Device, and starts a money rain pouring upon everybody.

But! Available at 24 trained ranks :p