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View Full Version : Misleading Customers Re: Greater Reincarnation



Kazon
02-18-2010, 01:47 PM
Turbine,

I would like to express my dissatisfaction over what I perceive to be a somewhat misleading and vaguely questionable decision on your part: that of dangling the promise of GR out there and subsequently pulling it at the last moment before Update 3 went live.

Now I fully realize that yes, everyone is patiently waiting for this and that yes, I'm sure you have your reasons for this decision. That being said, though, you should realize that these types of enticing offers being first offered then denied, especially at the last moment after having your customer base become worked up in excitement anticipating their (its) release, feels a lot like a slap in the face and makes one begin to question one's loyalty in paying for your product. (I happen to be a VIP account)

I can honestly say that I'd rather you had never even mentioned the possibility of releasing a GR-type option, since my excitement of upgrading my poor 28-point build would never have mounted in the first place. I would have instead continued to work towards 32-point build status in the normal way and then towards 20th level to unlock TR. Instead I was treated to the promise of being able to bypass that and upgrade to 32-point via an in-game store option without having to start at the beginning. But wait! We had to delay it! We announced that the same day Update 3 went live, but right at the last minute!

Well, aren't I the dumb donkey striving for that carrot?

I have yet to read anywhere in your announcements or patch notes any kind of explanation as to exactly why GR has been held back, and rampant speculation has filled that void. Any intelligent person knows that these things can sometimes take time and that we can't always get what we want when we want it, but there is certainly a flip side to that coin. That is that a prudent consumer also knows when he is being duped.

I ask you to be up front with me and the rest of your customer base as to why GR is still on hold and when it will be approved for release. I also ask you to discontinue the misleading practice of publically releasing notes regarding future features then mysteriously denying them from the eager player base, especially at the midnight hour after having let that anticipation build up.

We've all been waiting very patiently for weeks now. You have now released similar features to both the Store and to in-game quest givers via Patch 1. If there are technical reasons GR cannot be similarly released, I'd love to hear them. My patience will be renewed. If not -- if there are no other reasons than being marketing-related -- then my patience is running thin.

I was a once-content farmer who has now seen the city. I want in.

Thank you.

- A Concerned Customer

Pfamily
02-18-2010, 02:03 PM
History has shown Turbine to hold back on game upgrades for legal, marketing, & technical issues. Whatever the reason, it will be released when it's released and little can be done to change that.

If, after only a few months in the game, your opinion is so affected as to prompt your letter...you may want to consider switching to something like backgammon or parcheezi as I'm sure no one will offer upgrades for these games which, if not delivered exactly on-time, might cause you further consternation.

Just friendly advice.

Kazon
02-18-2010, 02:16 PM
I know Turbine's history. I still feel it's worth the time to put my opinion out there, if nothing more than to vent my frustration.

I would similarly take the time to mail a letter to Parker Brothers if their newest boxed version of Backgammon featured a picture of gold-plated dice on its packaging, but instead included a note stating they weren't finished with these new dice yet and that they'd send them to you soon.

It's distasteful, disingenuous and worthy of complaint. That's all I'm doing here.

Lorz
02-18-2010, 02:27 PM
You did read the ToS and you did read the little line at start about your Game Play Experience is subject to change.

Hi, and welcome to MMO's. You gots a lot to learn.

Enjoy your stay. Try not to anger the locals.

And remember most of all .... Nobody Cares!

Have a GREAT day!

Gol
02-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Gotta sell all the LRs they can, first. You know, milking the cash cow.

http://preaprez.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/cash-cow.jpg

Kazon
02-18-2010, 02:39 PM
Meh, not a MMO n00b, but I get the point.

I still think it's worth it to at least try. Who knows? This thread has as much a chance as any to wind up on someone's desk and make them think, "This guy's right. Stevens, get the devs in here!"

Cynicism shouldn't rule the day.

Bolo_Grubb
02-18-2010, 02:44 PM
I would like to know when GR might be in game, just so I know when it is worth it for me to come back and play again.

At least when I do come back it can be as a mostly free player.

Of course if it takes too long I might just find another game I would rather spend my limit play time on instead.

Missing_Minds
02-18-2010, 02:45 PM
Cynicism shouldn't rule the day.

No it shouldn't, however, what if you did a GR then later you did a LR and ended up with a 28 pt build again?

What would happen to a TR 34 point build suddnely getting dropped back to a 32 or heaven forbid 28 pt build again.

I have no idea what is on lama, but I've often wondered if test cases like got tested due to some of their previous oops that slipped by.

I would much rather them release a system that works rather than release a system that messed up a character. And you know what? I'd bet they would agree with me.

flynnjsw
02-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Meh, not a MMO n00b, but I get the point.

I still think it's worth it to at least try. Who knows? This thread has as much a chance as any to wind up on someone's desk and make them think, "This guy's right. Stevens, get the devs in here!"

Cynicism shouldn't rule the day.

Look at all the other posts that have come out today about the updates, cynicism HAS ruled the day.

flynnjsw
02-18-2010, 02:47 PM
I would like to know when GR might be in game, just so I know when it is worth it for me to come back and play again.

At least when I do come back it can be as a mostly free player.

Of course if it takes too long I might just find another game I would rather spend my limit play time on instead.

Can I have your stuff?

clanqui
02-18-2010, 02:50 PM
I love it that having a long history of broken promises is a defense. :D

jhorn02
02-18-2010, 02:55 PM
History has shown Turbine to hold back on game upgrades for legal, marketing, & technical issues. Whatever the reason, it will be released when it's released and little can be done to change that.

If, after only a few months in the game, your opinion is so affected as to prompt your letter...you may want to consider switching to something like backgammon or parcheezi as I'm sure no one will offer upgrades for these games which, if not delivered exactly on-time, might cause you further consternation.

Just friendly advice.

Wow, a harsh response to what I thought was a well stated concern. In fact, you mention that Turbine has held back game upgrades for legal, MARKETING, and technical issues. I think his concern is that this was a MARKETING/REVENUE tactic. Based on my four years of experience with Turbine, I doubt that's true...but it's a valid question.

By the way, the difference as I see it is that you don't have to keep paying Parker Brothers $15 per month to play backgammon. If we did, you'd probably see more people asking for timely delivery on announced updates to that game as well :D

Subscription based MMOs are, by definition, a business model based around customer retention. Setting clear expectations that you can either meet or exceed is fundamental to any retention-based business model. IMHO, that the biggest mistake that Turbine continues to make.

Cyr
02-18-2010, 03:01 PM
I would much rather them release a system that works rather than release a system that messed up a character. And you know what? I'd bet they would agree with me.

Casual Setting and Dungeon Alert would tend to point towards them not agreeing with you (even though they might say they really do) :)

Malazarti
02-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Ya know, I like to criticize and whine as much as the next mmo-junkie, but sheesh....there's probably some technical bugs in GR that they realized they need to work out first perhaps? It's not that big a deal and par for the course for MMO content patching really.

And again I'll state - I'm more than happy (even as a relatively new-to-DDO-player) that these possible character respec options are starting to come to the table, because they are very needed in a game system such as what DDO has. I'm not too enamoured with the cost associated with them though as they are quite an expensive store item and (in my experience), pretty easy to screw up, which further screws up your character yet again, and you cannot undo/restart your GR/LR process if you proceed and then go "huh...this didn't quite turn out how I meant." Buyer be warned.

One thing that is very promising though is the fact that through the new scavenger hunt event to celebrate DDO's 4th Birthday on of the possible rewards you can get is a Lesser Heart +3. More of these kinds of reward plans should get on the table. VIP's should get free respec tokens (and other rewards) at various continuous-sub anniversary dates. I've seen this in other games and it's very well received.

Lorz
02-18-2010, 03:26 PM
Can I have your stuff?

DOH...you beat me to dibs.... :P

KoboldTrapper
02-18-2010, 03:49 PM
I'd like to point out that a while back they straight-up told us they were pulling like, every reincarnation option due to it bugging casual, or casual bugged reincarnation characters. My memory is akin to that of an etch-a-sketch, and if I can remember that, well, you can't say that your really searched, now can you?

Point is: get over it, move on, roll a new character, or put the spurs to your character... or cry and quit. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can either make the best of the situation, or sit in you pity-puddle under your raincloud thinking about how wet your boxers are.

*shrugs* I don't have a real job, yet here I am, playing DDO for a while. Odd jobs pay enough to feed me and power my computer while sheltering me from the elements. That's all I can ask for. Make the best of your situation friend. ^_^

Kazon
02-18-2010, 04:41 PM
^^^
Pretty immature response there. I'll fly above.

If there were statements by Turbine to the effect that they needed to pull GR (and TR) due to crossover effect on other updated features then it would make perfect sense. I wouldn't have started this topic at all. So if that's true then I really have no beef.

Still, I never saw those (not Turbine's fault) and I'm pretty sure the overall general concensus here is that not many other people did, either. GR is MIA, with no real explanation (again, mea culpa if there was). The Release Notes for Update 3 mention nothing about it, though, and that's where I would think they'd choose to inform us, the paying customer base, about an obviously important new feature, or its absence in this case.

Instead, they advertised it, built it up, drew us in, then cut it at seemingly the last second. No word at all other than Coming Soon!

I'll keep playing - I love the game. I just still believe in the value of appropriate reaction to real or perceived wrongs, when warranted.

Pfamily
02-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Wow, a harsh response to what I thought was a well stated concern. In fact, you mention that Turbine has held back game upgrades for legal, MARKETING, and technical issues. I think his concern is that this was a MARKETING/REVENUE tactic. Based on my four years of experience with Turbine, I doubt that's true...but it's a valid question.

By the way, the difference as I see it is that you don't have to keep paying Parker Brothers $15 per month to play backgammon. If we did, you'd probably see more people asking for timely delivery on announced updates to that game as well :D

Subscription based MMOs are, by definition, a business model based around customer retention. Setting clear expectations that you can either meet or exceed is fundamental to any retention-based business model. IMHO, that the biggest mistake that Turbine continues to make.
Aww c’mon…don’t go getting’ yer panties all in a wad. I believe the OP understood my response to be more tongue-in-cheek than boot-in-arse, or at least I hope he does, ‘cuz that’s all it was.

I don’t believe anyone here can substantively defend Turbine’s history of broken promises, and the OP does have a point that these things do need to be aired. Forum whining serves the same purpose, perhaps not as eloquently but with more bravado. Be you a constructive criticizer or a whiney noob, the game has admitted faults that “they” are aware of (ahh, the ubiquitous “they”) and that “they” want to fix for purely capitalistic reasons.

As has been stated, if it’s a choice between immediately getting something that is obviously broken, or waiting for a (hopefully) working version…which do you honestly choose?

They’ll release it when it gets released, and for their own reasons. Simple as that.

If anyone out there is counting chickens, they'd probably ought to stop when they run out of fingers and toes…they’ll be a lot happier than if they go borrowing others people's digits to keep on counting.

And the toe-jam…yuk.

chadj82371
02-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Turbine,

I can honestly say that I'd rather you had never even mentioned the possibility of releasing a GR-type option, since my excitement of upgrading my poor 28-point build would never have mounted in the first place. I would have instead continued to work towards 32-point build status in the normal way and then towards 20th level to unlock TR. Instead I was treated to the promise of being able to bypass that and upgrade to 32-point via an in-game store option without having to start at the beginning.

I, too, am frustrated by the delay but I'm just going to keep leveling or work on alts until they get it out. I'd definitely prefer it work correctly whenever I'm able to do it (don't want to pay that cost more than once if I can help it).

That being said, I think (emphasis on think) that your excitement was bound to be thwarted in any event (as mine was). I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that GR was not going to upgrade 28 pt builds until you had 32-pt builds unlocked. It was/is not going to simply bypass that. If you are not able to create 32 point builds I don't believe that you would even be able to see GR hearts in the store. *edit - In other words, once you had 32-pt build unlocked you would have the option to upgrade existing 28 pt builds to 32 pt.* Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I read that in one of the reincarnate threads.

Kazon
02-18-2010, 05:19 PM
I read opposite. Was certain that 32-point rebuild was going to be available to *anyone* with a credit card.

That's what all the controversy was about. Come to think of it, maybe I just answered my own question!