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View Full Version : Add a new raid in update 4



maddmatt70
02-16-2010, 09:41 AM
The epic raids are definitely fun, but they can not really replace the fun and excitement of playing a new raid. It has been close to 6 months since we got the tower raid which was our last new raid and it is high time we get another one. By the time update 4 comes it will have been 7+ months between new raids which is an unheard of amount of time.

Missing_Minds
02-16-2010, 09:48 AM
You are probably better off asking for Update 6 at this point honestly.

It was posted in Lama that Update 4 was in test and they were working on 5. (Heroic Surge), however, I'm betting the design phase of 5 is done, so 6 is your next best chance if there are no new raids in 4 or 5.

Don't you just love software development cycles?

jones20992
02-16-2010, 09:50 AM
what about 11 months with out any new content ?

maddmatt70
02-16-2010, 09:54 AM
You are probably better off asking for Update 6 at this point honestly.

It was posted in Lama that Update 4 was in test and they were working on 5. (Heroic Surge), however, I'm betting the design phase of 5 is done, so 6 is your next best chance if there are no new raids in 4 or 5.

Don't you just love software development cycles?

My bet is they have update 4 and 5 done at the higher to mid levels programming wise. I am betting that they have a new raid scheduled for one of those updates. I would prefer they release the raid in 4 instead of 5 which is in part this plea. If I am incorrect on the raid timing then yes I want a new raid by update 6 for sure. An older fixed up raid is not like a brand new raid which you have to figure out and in general just enjoy the freshness/newness of it.

Kza
02-16-2010, 09:58 AM
Signed

And plz make it extremely fun and replayable like shroud. Ie non bound crafting stuff = can plan ahead, can estimate time can buy can sell can have what i think is fun! (I understand some thing is ok/good for the game have bound to account bound to character but ALL endgame items released after shroud is that!? Plz plz change that.

Do reaver refuge things i see like a neverending grind. (worst lottery thing in game)

Going for Completionist i see like an insane grind. (TR2 just way too slow)

Playing shroud i dont see as a grind, every time i get in there i get some things from it i can sell or keep more or less.

Think of it devs, focus on the most played and succesfull raid in this games history and make more like that!!!

Hendrik
02-16-2010, 10:07 AM
what about 11 months with out any new content ?

You may want to go back to pre-school math and brush up on the basics, like addition.

:rolleyes:

Bogenbroom
02-16-2010, 11:15 AM
Signed

And plz make it extremely fun and replayable like shroud. Ie non bound crafting stuff = can plan ahead, can estimate time can buy can sell can have what i think is fun! (I understand some thing is ok/good for the game have bound to account bound to character but ALL endgame items released after shroud is that!? Plz plz change that.

Do reaver refuge things i see like a neverending grind. (worst lottery thing in game)

Going for Completionist i see like an insane grind. (TR2 just way too slow)

Playing shroud i dont see as a grind, every time i get in there i get some things from it i can sell or keep more or less.

Think of it devs, focus on the most played and succesfull raid in this games history and make more like that!!!

Ack! PLEASE NO! Please no more quests of any sort that require me to run each of my guys through them a bazillion times. Please no more raids that devolve into 7-9 guys standing around one giant mob holding down their mouse button for five minutes hoping the healers can keep up. (much less twice!)

Yes, I know... I am one of 3% of the population that hates the shroud/greensteel mech. Sigh...

Missing_Minds
02-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Ack! PLEASE NO! Please no more quests of any sort that require me to run each of my guys through them a bazillion times. Please no more raids that devolve into 7-9 guys standing around one giant mob holding down their mouse button for five minutes hoping the healers can keep up. (much less twice!)

Yes, I know... I am one of 3% of the population that hates the shroud/greensteel mech. Sigh...

But the problem with this is if you put out a raid that requires brains over brawn, you will have even more people complain about being bored.

The devs can't win.

Jefro
02-16-2010, 11:49 AM
It will be great if they do the low-level pirate raid, an introduction to raiding. that is more fun then tempest spine in the old days

The high-levels can start doing epic, since currently there still not enough doing it. Von epic dragon is very good compared to old dragon but hardly no one is running it. It easier then ToD, and does not require boots, I actually wore my iceskates in last one :D

Epic items and adding supressed power to increase crafting I hope keep seeing in future updates, even risia games was very useful.

valorik
02-16-2010, 04:20 PM
/signed, redoing old content on epic is only entertaining me so much.

Schwarzie
02-16-2010, 04:22 PM
It will be great if they do the low-level pirate raid, an introduction to raiding. that is more fun then tempest spine in the old days

The high-levels can start doing epic, since currently there still not enough doing it. Von epic dragon is very good compared to old dragon but hardly no one is running it. It easier then ToD, and does not require boots, I actually wore my iceskates in last one :D

Epic items and adding supressed power to increase crafting I hope keep seeing in future updates, even risia games was very useful.

Maybe so few people are doing because Epic in the current incarnation is stupid? It only shrinks the game to dps and heal/second. everything else is irrelevant. Trap DCs are such that only Gimp-Rogues who you have to wheelchair to the trap where he works his magic and then you have to wheelchair him around can find/disable them. Or you simply take a competent Rogue and Rez through the trap.

"For the best of the Best" HAHA! Epic is booooooring. All cool stuff stops working. Casters are reduced to FW where it works, otherwise Buffs and Ottos Irresistible Dance, again where it works. No offensive action whatsoever. Stupid Blanket Immunities at every mob. Boooooooooring.

I imagined different things when i first heard about Epic. Around something where different tactics succeed, where you need an exceptionally well build and equiped toon, not only the biggest sword with the Cleric with a bag full of manapots behind him. *yawn*


Apart from this rant i vote for a new Raid where you have to use your brain, not only two spells and a Mineral II kopesh.

sirgog
02-16-2010, 05:17 PM
Maybe so few people are doing because Epic in the current incarnation is stupid? It only shrinks the game to dps and heal/second. everything else is irrelevant. Trap DCs are such that only Gimp-Rogues who you have to wheelchair to the trap where he works his magic and then you have to wheelchair him around can find/disable them. Or you simply take a competent Rogue and Rez through the trap.

"For the best of the Best" HAHA! Epic is booooooring. All cool stuff stops working. Casters are reduced to FW where it works, otherwise Buffs and Ottos Irresistible Dance, again where it works. No offensive action whatsoever. Stupid Blanket Immunities at every mob. Boooooooooring.

I imagined different things when i first heard about Epic. Around something where different tactics succeed, where you need an exceptionally well build and equiped toon, not only the biggest sword with the Cleric with a bag full of manapots behind him. *yawn*


Apart from this rant i vote for a new Raid where you have to use your brain, not only two spells and a Mineral II kopesh.

Outside the raids, that can't be more untrue. Casters can actually use a wide variety of spells in epics. Charms (at least of the Suggestion variety) work and work well. Halt Undead in Wiz King. etc.


Back on topic - I can get behind this. I'd rather something that's a little easier than ToD on Normal (keeping it more PUGgable, filling ToD groups takes forever), but that scales up more than ToD does on higher diffuculties.

Turial
02-16-2010, 05:28 PM
My bet is they have update 4 and 5 done at the higher to mid levels programming wise. I am betting that they have a new raid scheduled for one of those updates. I would prefer they release the raid in 4 instead of 5 which is in part this plea. If I am incorrect on the raid timing then yes I want a new raid by update 6 for sure. An older fixed up raid is not like a brand new raid which you have to figure out and in general just enjoy the freshness/newness of it.

The likely choice for the next high level raid maybe a face off against the Truthful One. He has been referenced in several storylines so far and was part of two big ones recently, Eye of the Titan/Dreaming Dark and Stealer of Souls.

Bogenbroom
02-16-2010, 05:40 PM
But the problem with this is if you put out a raid that requires brains over brawn, you will have even more people complain about being bored.

The devs can't win.

Where I would love to see them go with raids is to create more, smaller, objectives aimed at accomplishing the main goal. The thought that keeps coming to mind is the Stormcleave end-fight where you can take out each of the four side rooms to weaken the boss... if that sort of thing could be done, giving smaller parts of the group other objectives that need to be completed/ maintained while the main group takes on the boss... to me that would be more interesting.

UltraMonk2
02-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Why does a raid have to culminate in a big boss fight?

Why not defend a castle against a horde?

maddmatt70
02-16-2010, 06:13 PM
Why does a raid have to culminate in a big boss fight?

Why not defend a castle against a horde?

Nice concept. The developers have definitely gotten into the pattern of raids in a big room with one boss unfortunately. A horde defense would be very neat.

sirgog
02-16-2010, 06:54 PM
Where I would love to see them go with raids is to create more, smalelr, objectives aimed at accomplishing the main goal. The thought that keeps coming to mind is the Stormcleave end-fight where you can take out each of the four side rooms to weaken the boss... if that sort of thing could be done, giving smaller parts of the group other objectives that need to be completed/ maintained while the main group takes on the boss... to me that would be more interesting.

I think something like that was the intent of the (original version of the) Abbot. It didn't go down too well because each pair of puzzlers had to do things that had little to do with DDO (one FPS minigame where no character stats matter, two jumping games where character stats are nearly totally irrelevant save having Featherfall and a Jump spell), in addition the raid failed if they didn't get it perfectly right.

I'd rather see something where early in the raid you have to split into 3/4 groups and do some small subquest under intense time pressure (for example, each group of 3-4 players must find and kill six powerful trash mobs then one of the Shroud lieutenants within ninety seconds). Then, you face the actual raid boss, who upon hitting 75% health summons every still-alive foe from the 'split up' section.

Angelus_dead
02-16-2010, 07:07 PM
I think something like that was the intent of the (original version of the) Abbot. It didn't go down too well because each pair of puzzlers had to do things that had little to do with DDO
That is a widespread myth.

The real problem was not that the minigames were different, but that they were unreasonably hard and not fun.

Anderei
02-16-2010, 07:08 PM
Nice concept. The developers have definitely gotten into the pattern of raids in a big room with one boss unfortunately. A horde defense would be very neat.

An elite version of Kobold Assault, Gladewatch Outpost? :p

Junts
02-16-2010, 07:09 PM
The epic raids are definitely fun, but they can not really replace the fun and excitement of playing a new raid. It has been close to 6 months since we got the tower raid which was our last new raid and it is high time we get another one. By the time update 4 comes it will have been 7+ months between new raids which is an unheard of amount of time.

Yeah, no one would ever have thought we went from May 08 to Sept 09 without a new raid .. and that those 2 raids sucked a lot and were short.

UltraMonk2
02-16-2010, 08:48 PM
An elite version of Kobold Assault, Gladewatch Outpost? :p

Whilst I do like both those quests, I'd like to see battlements and a main door that has to be battered down by the enemy.

With a proper castle you have the outer keep, then the inner keep and the main building. It should be pretty much given that the raid group would eventually have to surrender the outer keep and fall back into the inner keep.

You could have several parts to the raid. 1) Sneak into the castle somehow 2) Kill all the enemy inside 3) The enemy gathers a new force to take back the castle.

I'm also wondering that now with the epic level content if there will be a raid created that is only an epic level raid, no doing it on normal, hard or elite. Only Epic.

sirgog
02-16-2010, 10:00 PM
That is a widespread myth.

The real problem was not that the minigames were different, but that they were unreasonably hard and not fun.

Both are reasons.

Now that Asteroids is fixed, however, I still don't enjoy it (even though I could probably beat it). Never have liked FPS games for several reasons, mainly that in Australia we never get under 300ms latency on any US hosted game, plus (even without the lag) I'm just not good at them.

I know now some people do like the Abbot puzzles, but (judging by the groaning every time we restart the puzzles due to an error) I think even those people prefer 'phase 2' of the Abbot (the fighting and dodging Inferno).


On the idea of an Epic-only raid - I don't like the idea. Any raid where the lowest difficulty setting is much harder than ToD Hard or Shroud Elite isn't really going to get run by all that many people. Even WoW, the biggest (in terms of players) MMO has moved away from having content that is inaccessible (on regular mode) to casual guilds - and with fewer players, DDO is in a worse place to cater to a minority of players with new content releases than a game like WoW is.

I'd be all for a raid, however, that's no tougher than ToD normal on normal mode, but where Hard pushes the limits of the best players, and Elite (or Epic) isn't defeated on any server for many months on end.

dormetheus
02-17-2010, 12:02 AM
It would be interesting to see a raid that could be completed by multiple methods: kill count, arena boss battles, capture the flag/relic, timed survival/attrition, or even a twitch/avoidance/puzzle route.

There are a lot of different ways to handle a raid, but the best is to make every participant feel like they had some kind of involvement.

I do think it's about time for a flying ship boarding/broadsiding pirate event. Melee could board and fight, casters could nuke ship or enemies, people could steer the ship for position vs. hazards, and the rest could collect "bounty" that could increase % chance of raid drops. Just spitballing.

As far as crafting mechanic, I would like to see something simple like universal token -> low bonus (of your choice) ingredient -> medium bonus (of your choice) ingredient -> high bonus (of your choice) ingredient where they can easily be combined and broken apart. Keep it simple, freely customizable, and grind-worthy (where every addition adds a little something of exactly what the player wants to work toward).

Other than that, I would just want to see intelligent weapons.

Shade
02-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Update 4 will probably be those low lvl house D quests that were already showing up on Lamannia in the adventure list.

No raid in there..

That and maybe some more epics, if were lucky (the house D quests do list a epic mode available in compedium). Probably will release with the mode in, then take it away from us a week later. Classic turbine style.

Next raid should be the dracolich followup to SoS. Let us fight all those dragons at once, and then the dracolich.

Missing_Minds
02-17-2010, 09:08 AM
Nice concept. The developers have definitely gotten into the pattern of raids in a big room with one boss unfortunately. A horde defense would be very neat.

It would be, but I don't know if the engine and AI could take it. When you have a whole bunch of mobs running around your instance will LAGG....

Now if they specially coded the AI such to where it would ignore you until they reached a certain hit point, but until that time they were focused only one one thing... maybe it woudln't be as lag tastic.