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View Full Version : New Skill Spellcraft.



Robi3.0
02-13-2010, 01:28 PM
I am sure I am not the only one that found the recent changes to Firewall and blade barrier kind of a cop out. My proposed solution to this easy button is to add the skill Spellcraft. (SRD entry below minus the chart)

I am suggesting that instead of having everyone for no apparent reason know who cast which spell instead allow characters to take ranks in spellcraft the more ranks you have the easier it should be to tell which spell is friendly and which isn't.

At 0 ranks the blade barriers and firewalls look the same. Then with each additional rank enemy firewall begin to vary in color until the point that the look the way they do now.

It has also always bothered me that my fighter with no magically training what so ever can examine a mob and tell exactly what spells they have previously cast on themselves. It shouldn't be that way. :( Spellcraft could also be used to detriment if your character has the ability to know that kind of info. This is essentially this is how spellcraft works in PnP. Follow the link for a chart of DC's. Giving the fast paced nature of the game I think spellcraft checks made in this way should have on roll and be skill mod vs DCs. Obvious doing it that way would mean DCs would have to be adjusted to account for that lack of a d20 roll.

I believe that adding this skill will add another level of play to the game and make classes with high skill points more useful in some situation then low skill point classes. As is I often find my self putting ranks in to skills useless to that character because I have nothing else to use them on.


SPELLCRAFT (INT; TRAINED ONLY) http://srd.dndonlinegames.com/skillsAll.html#spellcraft

Use this skill to identify spells as they are cast or spells already in place.
Check: You can identify spells and magic effects. The DCs for Spellcraft checks relating to various tasks are summarized on the table above.

Action: Varies, as noted above.

Try Again: See above.

Special: If you are a specialist wizard, you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks when dealing with a spell or effect from your specialty school. You take a –5 penalty when dealing with a spell or effect from a prohibited school (and some tasks, such as learning a prohibited spell, are just impossible).

If you have the Magical Aptitude feat, you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks.

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (arcana), you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks.

If you have 5 or more ranks in Use Magic Device, you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to decipher spells on scrolls.

If you have 5 or more ranks in Spellcraft, you get a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device checks related to scrolls.

Additionally, certain spells allow you to gain information about magic, provided that you make a successful Spellcraft check as detailed in the spell description.

PowerOfRaistlin
02-15-2010, 04:36 AM
this would never work because those with the appropriate knowledges etc would communicate with the ignorant. ie a wizard knows the vulnerability of a red dragon. he would tell his group mates the relevant info. as such same is done here. knowledge skills etc are ignored under the the same premise.

Memnir
02-15-2010, 04:44 AM
I rather like the idea, in theory. But, I imagine it'd be a nasty bit of code to get right and bug free. I also imagine that adding any skill to the game at this juncture would have many people crying nerf - even with ways to respec skill points becoming increasingly more common.

A very good idea - but I don't see how it could be easily implemented.

JPDefault
02-15-2010, 05:22 AM
Brilliant idea, I like it!

I agree on the fact that it may not be the easiest thing to implement, but if difficult things were not to be implemented, we'd never see new classes, races, skills, spells, PrEs, there won't be new quests at all and so on.

And,

this would never work because those with the appropriate knowledges etc would communicate with the ignorant. ie a wizard knows the vulnerability of a red dragon. he would tell his group mates the relevant info. as such same is done here. knowledge skills etc are ignored under the the same premise.

This is how it works in D&D. The same goes for Spot, Listen etc.

dunklezhan
02-15-2010, 06:28 AM
this would never work because those with the appropriate knowledges etc would communicate with the ignorant. ie a wizard knows the vulnerability of a red dragon. he would tell his group mates the relevant info. as such same is done here. knowledge skills etc are ignored under the the same premise.

Well I personally like the idea. I don't really understand your problem - this is a team game and sharing of knowledge is part of being in a team. The wizards job ought to be to tell the rest of the party what they know about x y or z magical effects/creatures. That's what they'd do in PnP, they should do it here too - it slow down combat but then how many people are actually pressing z to examine a monster anyway?

The point about adding a new skill is a reasonably valid one - respeccing skill points is still VERY expensive (800 odd TPs). They could just perhaps expand the use of 'Spot' to include spell effects too? Should be a simpler tweak.

Robi3.0
02-15-2010, 02:17 PM
Sometimes I have am idea and have to just put it out there. I figure that implementing this wont be easy, but I thought it was worth providing a different POV on the whole blade barrier change.

Laith
02-15-2010, 02:21 PM
I am sure I am not the only one that found the recent changes to Firewall and blade barrier kind of a cop out.eh, not really IMO. It replaces me shouting "my BB" or "not my BB" every time they pop up, and emulate my character doing it instead.

Samiusbot
02-15-2010, 02:38 PM
I would be more for such a thing if not every mob in the game knew our buffs/debuffs every sec. In some quests you better just be able to handle certain debuffs because if you remove them, bam you are debuffed again. Or the first thing a mob does is disspell magic 3-4 times then acid rain on you?

It would need to be a 2way street and I don't see the mobs being adjusted.

jasonchrist
02-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Coming from a pen and paper background, I see great merit in your idea. The problem lies within the amount of work required to add this skill to the game. I think that such an overhaul would require resources that could be better put elsewhere, especially considering the "OMG!" reaction people would undoubtedly have about having to respec their characters for the system change.

I'd rather see time used to create more unique quest designs and objectives, more classes, more races, more adventure areas, more crafting options... etc.

AylinIsAwesome
02-15-2010, 03:55 PM
Coming from a pen and paper background, I see great merit in your idea. The problem lies within the amount of work required to add this skill to the game. I think that such an overhaul would require resources that could be better put elsewhere, especially considering the "OMG!" reaction people would undoubtedly have about having to respec their characters for the system change.

I'd rather see time used to create more unique quest designs and objectives, more classes, more races, more adventure areas, more crafting options... etc.

I gotta agree with jason here. Interesting...but it'd be a lot of work.

Also I've got to admit I like not having to worry about whether or not that's a friendly firewall or bladebarrier in front of me.

Symar-FangofLloth
02-15-2010, 07:25 PM
I would only support this if they went the way of Pathfinder (lmao like that would happen) and rolled Concentration into the Spellcraft skill.

Strakeln
02-16-2010, 12:09 AM
I like it, though I must admit I see fixing things like DPS lag to be imperative before adding more things for the server to keep track of.

Kaeldur
02-23-2010, 07:16 PM
/signed

Very interesting idea! Would like to see other things worked on before this, but it would be awesome if this gets into the to-do list! (and I'm not even a spellcaster, I've died a few times to enemy BB's thinking it was friendly)

TheDjinnFor
02-23-2010, 07:59 PM
Would anyone actually bother to take that skill anyways? I mean, the skills are not exactly well-balanced and all useful, but really, do we need another trash feat (Edit: figure of speech) to go the way of bluff, heal or repair? Better yet, spot is based off of the same premise (denying information), but we all know at this point that rogues don't need spot to tell them where a trap is, just experience.

Hate to sound rude but Spellcraft would need something way better for it to contend with the other skills.

megathon
02-23-2010, 08:18 PM
Wouldn't there be a need to beable to reset your skills so you can put some points into spellcraft if you are of a high level?

Kistilan
02-23-2010, 08:24 PM
Sometimes I have am idea and have to just put it out there. I figure that implementing this wont be easy, but I thought it was worth providing a different POV on the whole blade barrier change.

Instead of making it a selected skill with ranks....

Base 10 DC Check.

Appropriate Caster of Spell Type in Party (Divine/Arcane): +4 to all party members, +8 to Appropriate Caster. Does not stack more than once. (Appropriate Caster w/Appropriate Caster = +12 for those Casters concurring on Spell's Origin)

Appropriate Ability Score Applied to Type of Spell: Int: Arcane Spells. Wis: Divine Spells.

Finally, base check: 20 @ level 1 for Absolute Definition of spell origin (as is shown in game today). +2 to every spell level for 38 DC on a level 9 Spell.

Lastly, for every 10% from the required DC check, player views spells in a "more obscure" way. At 50% the spells appear identical (Approximately 10-18 below required DC).

Ergo, against a level 1:

22 Absolute difference
19 Noted change in hues
17 Slight difference, effects, slight hue change
14 Slight but unnoticeable difference, effects
13 Slight very unnoticeable difference
11 Appears the Same

Ergo, against a level 9:

38
34
31
27
23
19

In the example here, it's quite possible for a full-up group of barbs and divine casters to have absolutely no chance of determining the origin of an arcane spell. Even with an arcane in the group, many of these users would only see slight changes to a spell. The Arcane (especially if 2 were in the group) would definitely see the change.

The same would be true for the reciprocal of a set of divine casters in the group.