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lutherlarry
02-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Ok, I get why dungeons lose xp bonus (and eventually non-bonus) xp depending on how many times you run it.

However, can we get it so that the xp potential regenerates over time based on how long ago you last ran it? So if I run a dungeon three times and then don't touch it for a couple of weeks it's back to full potential.

Xeraphim
02-07-2010, 12:41 PM
IIRC we asked for this in MOD 1-4 intermittently, so can we have it put on a priority above "After everything else"?

It would be a serious boon to the True Resurrected characters on their 7th or 8th round, given the cumulative increase of XP needed to level, and would give us all the more reason to bring our ancient characters out of retirement, if any should remain. Of course, it could be removed once yet more content is released and the certainty of being able to reach level 20 on a character that has gone through 15 True Resurrections in the course of 1 year(That's a LOT of metagaming! Be certain that at least one of your players is that driven, however).

If implemented, I think for balance reasons the Repetetion Penalty should decrease at a rate of 2 per week. 1 per week seems a bit underpaced, and 3 per week seems overpaced... 2 just 'feels' about right. Yes, metagamers would become impatient(I expect as such, as they push forward with every moment of the day), but I consider the Casual Gamer that would farm Madstone, Crucible and Enter the Kobold 3 times sequentially for every weekend he had off(No real diversity there.. but with this in mind a rate of 1 per week sounds fair... so a balance between the impatience of the metagamer and the busy schedule of the casual gamer yields my suggestion of 2 per week).

If not intended for implementation, could we kindly get a reply from Eladrin, Flimsy, Tolero or someone official to note this? Many of us would very much appreciate a reply on this long-asked query that seems to hide itself in the sea of other concerns rather frequently.


Edit much later: Your XP table is tied in with your build points not how many times you’ve True Reincarnated. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2529284&postcount=88) - Grabbed this from deep in the bowels of this thread. It more or less says that the XP Requirements do not change no matter how many TR's past the 2nd you go.

Missing_Minds
02-07-2010, 12:46 PM
Won't happen. Why? The adven areas alone have almost enough XP to get you to lvl 20.

Solution, run other quests.

Problem: F2P with no modules.
Solution: Become VIP or purchase modules.

Problem: But I don't have the spare money.
Solution: Not our problem.

Problem: Hey, I thought you said the game was free!
Solution: You are no longer paying to access the server. Remember the phrase "You get what you pay for."

Goldeneye
02-07-2010, 01:08 PM
That would be very nice. It would especially benefit those players that only play once or twice a week!

ahpook
02-07-2010, 01:12 PM
I am with MM here: Not needed.

In all but exploitive cases you would be past the meaningful level of the quest by the time the repetition counter wore off anyway.

While it could be meaningful for 2nd TR's (not needed for 1st TRs thats for sure), it would defeat the purpose of the XP penalty of 2nd TR's. If that penalty is a problem, I would rather they simply reduced it.

Xeraphim
02-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Note: I blatantly added and amended this quote, please click the link

Won't happen. Why? The adven areas alone have almost enough XP to get you to lvl 20(the first time around, and maybe up the fourth).

Solution: Exhaust every quest.

Problem: F2P with no modules.
Solution: Go earn some money and buy TP, or skip it and go VIP.

Problem: But I don't have the spare money.
Solution: Sorry, Corporate America is squeezing everyone dry, so we can't help that.

Problem: Hey, I thought you said the game was free!
Solution: You are no longer paying to access the server. Remember the phrase "You get what you pay for."

You seem to have forgotten to factor in what I did: Cumulative XP requirements for True Reincarnation beyond the current norm(metagaming). Otherwise, your general approach could use a bit of softening, but your points are sound.

Edit much later: There are no cumulative requirements. The req's are static and unchanging. See chart below.

Xeraphim
02-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Anyone remember the True Reincarnation XP penalty offhand? I'd like to throw some numbers around...

Googling it...

So far no success...

this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205992&page=10) is huge, but still haven't found it...

I finally gave up and sent a PM... hopefully will be able to assess it soon.


Edit much later: The chart is crucial for planning, and someone will assuredly come up with e TR Level Plan, but the XP req's don't budge from their presets.

Xeraphim
02-07-2010, 03:01 PM
If that penalty is a problem, I would rather they simply reduced it.

Deleted in light of information otherwise not easily found

MrCow
02-07-2010, 03:10 PM
Anyone remember the True Reincarnation XP penalty offhand? I'd like to throw some numbers around...

Googling it...

So far no success...

Yankin' these numbers from my database. Alas, it is in ranks and not levels:


expAmount Upgrade Rank Reincarnation
5000 Level 6 0
20000 Level 11 0
50000 Level 16 0
90000 Level 21 0
140000 Level 26 0
200000 Level 31 0
270000 Level 36 0
350000 Level 41 0
440000 Level 46 0
540000 Level 51 0
650000 Level 56 0
770000 Level 61 0
900000 Level 66 0
1040000 Level 71 0
1190000 Level 76 0
1350000 Level 81 0
1520000 Level 86 0
1700000 Level 91 0
1890000 Level 96 0

0 Level 1 1
5250 Level 6 1
24000 Level 11 1
56000 Level 16 1
104500 Level 21 1
166500 Level 26 1
244750 Level 31 1
339250 Level 36 1
451250 Level 41 1
581750 Level 46 1
745338 Level 51 1
916185 Level 56 1
1109250 Level 61 1
1323750 Level 66 1
1561517 Level 71 1
1824191 Level 76 1
2112296 Level 81 1
2426823 Level 86 1
2768750 Level 91 1
3139102 Level 96 1

0 Level 1 2
5500 Level 6 2
23500 Level 11 2
62500 Level 16 2
118500 Level 21 2
193500 Level 26 2
289500 Level 31 2
408500 Level 36 2
552500 Level 41 2
723500 Level 46 2
923500 Level 51 2
1174500 Level 56 2
1438500 Level 61 2
1737500 Level 66 2
2073500 Level 71 2
2448500 Level 76 2
2864500 Level 81 2
3323500 Level 86 2
3827500 Level 91 2
4378500 Level 96 2

Xeraphim
02-07-2010, 06:06 PM
Yankin' these numbers from my database. Alas, it is fixed in a .txt document with the Replace All function:



No True Reincarnation(Base XP for 28 and 32 point builds)

expAmount Upgrade Rank Level
5000 Rank 6 2
20000 Rank 11 3
50000 Rank 16 4
90000 Rank 21 5
140000 Rank 26 6
200000 Rank 31 7
270000 Rank 36 8
350000 Rank 41 9
440000 Rank 46 10
540000 Rank 51 11
650000 Rank 56 12
770000 Rank 61 13
900000 Rank 66 14
1040000 Rank 71 15
1190000 Rank 76 16
1350000 Rank 81 17
1520000 Rank 86 18
1700000 Rank 91 19
1900000 Rank 96 20

1st True Reincarnation (34 point - XP is based on Build Points and is static)

0 Rank 1
5250 Rank 6
24000 Rank 11
56000 Rank 16
104500 Rank 21
166500 Rank 26
244750 Rank 31
339250 Rank 36
451250 Rank 41
581750 Rank 46
745338 Rank 51
916185 Rank 56
1109250 Rank 61
1323750 Rank 66
1561517 Rank 71
1824191 Rank 76
2112296 Rank 81
2426823 Rank 86
2768750 Rank 91
3139102 Rank 96

2nd+ True Reincarnation (36 point - XP is based on Build Points and is static)

0 Rank 1
5500 Rank 6
23500 Rank 11
62500 Rank 16
118500 Rank 21
193500 Rank 26
289500 Rank 31
408500 Rank 36
552500 Rank 41
723500 Rank 46
923500 Rank 51
1174500 Rank 56
1438500 Rank 61
1737500 Rank 66
2073500 Rank 71
2448500 Rank 76
2864500 Rank 81
3323500 Rank 86
3827500 Rank 91
4378500 Rank 96


<Snip>

This is an accurate representation of XP requirements for TR'd characters

Addendum: A Level 20 Completionist will have earned a total of 44,445,602 XP, with only 1 in each class. We could really use the suggestion by OP in this case, especially for TR2+ levels 16-20.

FoggyKnight
02-07-2010, 06:21 PM
/disagree. Just run other stuff.

Daehawk
02-07-2010, 11:15 PM
So far up to the 5th Reincarnation and the original XP is multiplied by 93783/45045(about 2 and 1/12), so it's not as harsh as it first seems. Guesstimation is that the 15th reincarnation should be somewhere around 2.5x normal XP requirements, or 4725000. In this case, and at this rate, your 1st reincarnation should be the hardest shock to you.

Still, 4725000 XP is *probably* not possible in DDO without implementing the suggested system(This assumes no XP bonuses beyond standard quest bonuses).

IIRC, the xp caps at what it is for the second TR. I believe reading when TR was first talked about and coming out that one of the Devs stated that the first 2 TRs the one that gives you 34pt and 36pt are the only 2 that the xp raises in. Then it stays for all future TRs at the 36pt XP cost making it 4,378,500 according to Mr. Cow's list. All future TRs after your second 3rd - 100th or however many you do will only be 4,378,500 to go through. Which people have capped Second TR chars so the XP is viable to get.

Renvar
02-07-2010, 11:29 PM
It looks bad, but it's really not.

I just means you have do something besides Waterworks, Tangleroot, Deleras, Tear, Gianthold, and the Vale to cap.

But even so, I TR'd without having to use Necro 1-3 (except cursed crypt), 3BC, Atraxia, Restless Isles, and many other quests. I went off the beaten power leveling path and used adventure areas much more fully than a normal power leveling. But there is plenty of XP to be had to reach those levels. It does take some planning, though to avoid going into higher level content to early.

Just stay out of Gianthold until level 14 and out of the Vale until level 17 and you are fine.

lutherlarry
02-08-2010, 05:50 AM
I just means you have do something besides Waterworks, Tangleroot, Deleras, Tear, Gianthold, and the Vale to cap

Other than Waterworks, I've never set foot in any of those places.

I played a bit at launch. I didn't feel like it was there yet, and went back to my other game.

I played a bit again in 2008. Was better, but didn't really suck me in.

Now I'm giving it a shot again (F2P, but bought Drow, WF, Monk, FS, some character slots and vet status).

Point is, I don't know the powerlevelling path. Not really looking for it. I've found what I like most is getting a cleric hireling and running some dungeons. I like Misery's Peak, Collaborator, Caged Trolls, and my favorite, Purge the Heretics. Even when things go bad (and at CL4 and 5 doing a CL6 dungeon solo or with a hireling, man things can go bad quick), I enjoy them. I don't particularly like the wilderness areas much. They're ok, but not as fun as dungeoning for me.

In the end, through, I have accept the punishment for over-playing what I like. I don't particularly agree with it. If the dungeon is properly balanced between time, risk and reward, it shouldn't matter if I run a single dungeon all day long or if I play 'em all once.

Sinni
02-08-2010, 06:14 AM
Other than Waterworks, I've never set foot in any of those places.

...

Point is, I don't know the powerlevelling path. Not really looking for it. I've found what I like most is getting a cleric hireling and running some dungeons. I like Misery's Peak, Collaborator, Caged Trolls, and my favorite, Purge the Heretics. Even when things go bad (and at CL4 and 5 doing a CL6 dungeon solo or with a hireling, man things can go bad quick), I enjoy them. I don't particularly like the wilderness areas much. They're ok, but not as fun as dungeoning for me.

In the end, through, I have accept the punishment for over-playing what I like. I don't particularly agree with it. If the dungeon is properly balanced between time, risk and reward, it shouldn't matter if I run a single dungeon all day long or if I play 'em all once.

how do you know if you like other quests better if you have never done them? so in some sense it's a chance to get to know more stuff, even if they have to beat you to your luck. and there really is more than enough xp around, especially at lower levels.

and another point is: not all dungeons have the balance between xp, time and risk you mention, good examples for this are delera 2 and 4 (ake necro).

lutherlarry
02-08-2010, 06:25 AM
how do you know if you like other quests better if you have never done them? so in some sense it's a chance to get to know more stuff, even if they have to beat you to your luck. and there really is more than enough xp around, especially at lower levels.

and another point is: not all dungeons have the balance between xp, time and risk you mention, good examples for this are delera 2 and 4 (ake necro).

I hear what you're saying, and I'd like to clear something up.

I've done others. I've done everything i could find. I'm still grumbly about one (can't remember the name, but you're supposed to go save Lady So-and-so's son, who's become undoead...perfect for my Paladin/Ranger...if I didn't need another person). I just listed the ones I like best.

Incidentally, any good adventure pack suggestions for a Pal3/Rng2 with TWF and OTWF? Basically building him as an undead hunter with the appropriate Prestige Class and Favored Enemy - Undead.

If dungeons don't have a good balance, and I'll absolutely take your word for it that there are some that are dramatically out of balance), then the problem should be fixed. The problem being, balance is off.

Renvar
02-08-2010, 09:27 AM
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting those are the only quests anyone ever runs. They are just the ones found on most common power leveling lists because of their strong overall XP and XP per minute capablities.

There are a ton of really fun quests that don't give great XP or give decent XP but take a long time to run so they are not on the power leveling curve.

My point was that powerlevelers can get to cap by running maybe 25% of the game content on N, H, E or N, N, N, H, E. Even if you need to double the amount of XP you earn, it is still possible to get that much XP from the game.

I agree with you, Caged Trolls is very fun. Rest for the Restless (lady Nepenthe's Son quest) is annoying. Those switches that require a hireling or second person, etc. Since you mentioned the RP concept that it's good for your Pally/Ranger to run, I am surprised your Pally/Ranger likes Purge the Heretics. You spend most of your time killing Chaotic Good alignment Humans, Elves, and Halfings. It's really nothing more than a political grudge assasination. Not exactly Paladin bread and butter. But its a fun quest to run.

Xeraphim
02-08-2010, 10:53 AM
It looks bad, but it's really not.

I just means you have do something besides Waterworks, Tangleroot, Deleras, Tear, Gianthold, and the Vale to cap.

But even so, I TR'd without having to use Necro 1-3 (except cursed crypt), 3BC, Atraxia, Restless Isles, and many other quests. I went off the beaten power leveling path and used adventure areas much more fully than a normal power leveling. But there is plenty of XP to be had to reach those levels. It does take some planning, though to avoid going into higher level content to early.

Just stay out of Gianthold until level 14 and out of the Vale until level 17 and you are fine.

Excellent advice, and thanks for your experience. I was shaking in my boots for a minute there, worrying about getting to my 3rd TR cap(my rogue took AGES to cap off, but looking back she only has 1,252 favor @ lvl 20 O.o). I was more concerned about level 17-20 than anything else.

How hard do you think it would be to hit that nearly 4.4 million XP cap with a 36-pointer?

Xeraphim
02-08-2010, 10:55 AM
The problem being, balance is off.

Think about this for a minute... here's how:

1) Put down just about every class and multiclass you can think of on paper.

2) Min/Max them and put them in hypothetical 6 person groups at various levels of gear power

3) Balance the dungeons around them.

It seems easy to someone who doesn't give it much though, but ultimately it's nightmarishly hard to do. Please bear with it, it's still a work in progress. ;)

lutherl
02-08-2010, 11:54 AM
This is my other account. For some odd reason, I can't log on with the one I used to start the discussion unless I'm logged in game. Anyway....


It seems easy to someone who doesn't give it much though, but ultimately it's nightmarishly hard to do. Please bear with it, it's still a work in progress. ;)

I've been playing MMO's for a looooong time. I never said it was easy.

lutherl
02-08-2010, 11:57 AM
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting those are the only quests anyone ever runs. They are just the ones found on most common power leveling lists because of their strong overall XP and XP per minute capablities.

There are a ton of really fun quests that don't give great XP or give decent XP but take a long time to run so they are not on the power leveling curve.

My point was that powerlevelers can get to cap by running maybe 25% of the game content on N, H, E or N, N, N, H, E. Even if you need to double the amount of XP you earn, it is still possible to get that much XP from the game.

I agree with you, Caged Trolls is very fun. Rest for the Restless (lady Nepenthe's Son quest) is annoying. Those switches that require a hireling or second person, etc. Since you mentioned the RP concept that it's good for your Pally/Ranger to run, I am surprised your Pally/Ranger likes Purge the Heretics. You spend most of your time killing Chaotic Good alignment Humans, Elves, and Halfings. It's really nothing more than a political grudge assasination. Not exactly Paladin bread and butter. But its a fun quest to run.

1. I bought the Necropolis series. Seemed both appropriate for my character as well as something he should do well with.

2. I loved Purge the Heretics mostly from a mechanics standpoint (except when the rassumfrassum hireling decides to suicide in the firejets).

Missing_Minds
02-08-2010, 12:12 PM
How hard do you think it would be to hit that nearly 4.4 million XP cap with a 36-pointer?

Join dates may or may not mean anything, but I'm guessing you weren't here during the dry spell waiting on Mod 9. Lets just say millions of XP were lost to dust due to the cap of 16.

No one forces you to TR ever, so that is all on your head. However, given almost every quest has a normal, hard and elite, each with their first time bonus, it just means if you want to make it as speedy as possible, you have a lot of quests and a lot of running to do. Pay attention to which quests have worthy optionals and are worth the time of running. Wizard king optionals (for example) are worth more than the base quest itself. Even at lvl 19.
Oh yeah... there is the casual setting now as well with the first time bonus. So LOOK, more XP that didn't exist before.

Renvar
02-11-2010, 10:04 AM
Excellent advice, and thanks for your experience. I was shaking in my boots for a minute there, worrying about getting to my 3rd TR cap(my rogue took AGES to cap off, but looking back she only has 1,252 favor @ lvl 20 O.o). I was more concerned about level 17-20 than anything else.

How hard do you think it would be to hit that nearly 4.4 million XP cap with a 36-pointer?

There are lots of good TR xp leveling plans out there, but my main advice would be this. Do not run any quest until you are Level +1. So your first Gwylans Normal is at level 8. On elite, at level 10. You get no benefit from running at or below level and no penalty for one level above the quest. There is SO much XP in the 5-10 range that you want to stretch that up as much as you can.

Make yourself the highest level toon in the party. That way you are making sure that you are not getting some other higher level toon hit you with an XP penalty. There are alot of TR's these days, so this concept is not hard to find groups for. It also ensures faster runs. With all your old gear (greensteel at level 12!!!) and one level over the quest, you can generally fly through. Much fewer party wipes or rough long runs.

Also, don't level up immediately upon earning enough xp for a level. Wait and keep earning XP at the lower level until you have to level to get more XP. Don't level to levle 2 at 5000 xp. Level to level 2 at 19999 xp. Level to Level 3 at 49999 xp (instead of 20,000). Level to Level 4 at 89999 xp, and so on. (I'm using the old leveling numbers, not the TR ones. but you get the point.) This strectches all those lower quests one more level.

If you were around when the cap was 16, then you were used to hitting Gianthold at 10 and the vale at 13. Now you are running VON, Stormcleave, CO6, Threnal, and Restless Isles at levels 10 and 11. And running Necro 3, the desert, and very high level house quests at level 12 and 13 along with elite runs of VON and CO6 and the like.

You start GH walkups at 14 and Orchard and GH quests at 15 on norm. Level 16 is GH and Orchard on Hard and elite with some elite desert (wiz king always rocks the XP).

By doing this you have "saved" the vale, reaver's refuge, elite orchard, inspired quarter, dreaming dark, and Amrath for levels 17-20. Plus the adventure areas for Orchard and Gianthold do not expire until level 19. Add that to the Vale, Reaver's refuge, and Amrath adventure areas and you will be in good shape for the rest of your leveling.

The only problem you will have once you reach 17 is that most Hound, Shroud, VOD raids run 17-20. You will not be as able to control your party level range with the raids. Not much you can do about that, though.

That's the plan I use.

Letrii
02-11-2010, 04:30 PM
XP increase does not go up after second TR.

binnsr
02-11-2010, 04:40 PM
This is my other account. For some odd reason, I can't log on with the one I used to start the discussion unless I'm logged in game.

Have you used the bug report function here (points to the top of the screen) or ingame (cntrl-o | help | submit a bug report) ??

Falco_Easts
02-11-2010, 07:32 PM
As suggested in another smilar thread, I see no problem wtih repititions being reduced by one a week.
Powergamers won't be affected as they are going to be past that before the week is up and casual players level slower so it wouldn't be a game breaker.

lutherl
02-11-2010, 10:37 PM
Have you used the bug report function here (points to the top of the screen) or ingame (cntrl-o | help | submit a bug report) ??

Heh, no. I'm not as much of a forum hound for this game as for games I've played in the past.

Uska
02-11-2010, 11:40 PM
I think its a bad idea as people will just do a few select dungeons for xp and wait for them to reset. The way it is now people have to do a few more dungeons to really lvl especially the TR people.

QuantumFX
02-12-2010, 12:06 AM
It would be a serious boon to the True Resurrected characters on their 7th or 8th round, given the cumulative increase of XP needed to level,

Your XP table is tied in with your build points not how many times you’ve True Reincarnated. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2529284&postcount=88)

AylinIsAwesome
02-12-2010, 02:14 AM
I agree with you, Caged Trolls is very fun. Rest for the Restless (lady Nepenthe's Son quest) is annoying. Those switches that require a hireling or second person, etc. Since you mentioned the RP concept that it's good for your Pally/Ranger to run, I am surprised your Pally/Ranger likes Purge the Heretics. You spend most of your time killing Chaotic Good alignment Humans, Elves, and Halfings. It's really nothing more than a political grudge assasination. Not exactly Paladin bread and butter. But its a fun quest to run.

I ran Purge the Heretics once on my first character. I can't bring myself to do it again. The overall idea of going in and killing a bunch of people for having a different religious view...I can't do it.


(Off topic I know...but I felt like saying it.)

Xeraphim
02-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Your XP table is tied in with your build points not how many times you’ve True Reincarnated. (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2529284&postcount=88)

Cool! I wouldn't have ever found that if you hadn't linked it. I'll edit my other posts to reflect this.

Xeraphim
02-23-2010, 11:53 PM
I have a guildmate who is literally stuck at level 16 due to running haphazardly with level 20's here and there, and raiding as a casual player. His status is due merely to the True Reincarnation XP needs.

I'd support the proposed system for folks in this circumstance, including those who may share an account with a sibling or spouse.


As for those that simply advocate proper planning and implementation of those plans, this does not concern you.

Doxmaster
02-24-2010, 06:19 PM
I actually ran out of quests to run as a level 14-15 F2P. With the addition of those twelve enclaive quests, i got level 15, then 16. Now I REALLY have nada to do. Gotta scrap some cash to buy quests, powerlevel on those, then true res my character, so he doesnt eat up all the exp in one shot again

Xeraphim
03-01-2010, 01:50 AM
I actually ran out of quests to run as a level 14-15 F2P. With the addition of those twelve enclaive quests, i got level 15, then 16. Now I REALLY have nada to do. Gotta scrap some cash to buy quests, powerlevel on those, then true res my character, so he doesnt eat up all the exp in one shot again

$200 buys you all the content, FYI.