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Dobneygrum
02-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Sorry that my first post is a rant, but I just experienced the worst party ever. It was an unusual party in that it was comprised entirely of level 9 clerics... that is so important to this rant that I need to repeat it... LEVEL 9 CLERICS. We were all f2p, but we had all had 9 levels to get the basics of being a cleric down.

So... we tackle the Bookbinder Rescue on elite... which is tough without out a "rouge" as my party put it (They didn't seem to get why I was speaking in French saying, "Mais oui, et bleu, et un peu de jaune!"). No rogue makes it tougher, but we were still doing a 5th level adventure and we were all level 9 clerics.

We started off well: 1. We stopped to buff at the door. 2. We decided who was going to be the healer (that was me.. I play a rather squishy drow, but I excel at healing). That was the last thing that went right the whole adventure.

The first battle drains about half of my mana. I asked everyone to hold up for resist fire (I had never done it one elite before, and I didn't realize how deadly those casters can be.) Not only did they not wait for the buffs, no one healed themselves before tackling the next room. I managed to keep them all alive, but I was out of mana by the time the room was cleared. I asked if anyone had a dv, and the second he finished putting the last one on, another player runs off and gets killed. I raise dead, just in time for them to take off to another door. All except for one guy who gets himself killed on another trap by another door. I raise him just in time for the other two to die. He runs in and gets himself killed too. Finally, I am the only one left, I have no mana, and I'm trying desperately to heal myself with a wand long enough to get to the door. Luckily the adventure failed before I died.

Now, I've been in parties where everyone was killed before, but I couldn't believe that a party full of clerics had to be told to heal up between battles and to maintain a line of sight with the healer (did I mention they were level 9?). The worst part of this debacle was... they all died with mana bars at 3/4 full.

Oh well... they said... guess we needed that rouge after all.

vettkinn
02-06-2010, 04:24 PM
Wow comrade, French speaking party of level 9 clerics??? By the way, bookbinder rescue is part of the Sharn Syndicate pack, so you guys were either premium or vips, not exactly pure F2P.

Anyway, just because the party is full of clerics it doesn't mean that its an uber group. An uber group is one that has a variety of classes. And imo, level 9 is still an excusable level to make mistakes, maybe those were their first characters perhaps?

Quikster
02-06-2010, 04:32 PM
Wow comrade, French speaking party of level 9 clerics??? By the way, bookbinder rescue is part of the Sharn Syndicate pack, so you guys were either premium or vips, not exactly pure F2P.

Anyway, just because the party is full of clerics it doesn't mean that its an uber group. An uber group is one that has a variety of classes. And imo, level 9 is still an excusable level to make mistakes, maybe those were their first characters perhaps?

In my experience an uber group has nothing to do with classes.

Lagin
02-06-2010, 04:35 PM
Didn't even read your post!

First post is a rant!
Woot!

+1 for the brass kahunas!:rolleyes:

SquelchHU
02-06-2010, 04:37 PM
As someone who regularly solos those quests at level 5 or 6 on a non dedicated healer I am absolutely bewildered by all of this. The only thing in there I can see being threatening is the traps, but even they aren't that bad, and most of them can be completely avoided by breaking the doors from the side and timing your way through the trap, then pulling the lever inside to turn off the trap.

JPDefault
02-06-2010, 04:40 PM
Two things I seldom find in DDO (most expecially in PUGs):
1) Patience.
2) Strategy.

cdemeritt
02-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Wow... in a party of all clerics, no one should have to be "the healer", and everyone should be able to buff and heal themselves... Mind you even in most parties where I'm the main/sole healer, in still in with the fight, unless people are taking too much damage...


Edit: this seems to be more of a Newbie Vs. Noob thing more than a F2P Vs. P2P

Sweetsoul86
02-06-2010, 05:32 PM
As someone who plays a healer almost exclusively I feel your pain, also, love the french. ^_~

I know it's frustrating but what will horrify you more is when you get to level 17 or 18 and you find someone who...for example is a wizard, who does not have any of the basic spells for high level quests, no crowd control and refuses to help the cleric in any buffing whatsoever...then you will cry, like I have and you'll look back and realize that people somehow manage to make it to any level without paying attention to what the heck they're actually doing. It's like they play in their sleep or something.

Sadly to say it's why a lot of the people who've been playing for years will only play within their guilds or with real life friends, there are just so many people who won't accept help or advice and who refuse to learn. I mean this both with vip and f2p. It used to be that new players could get help just about anywhere they turned and most of them genuinely wanted to learn, so there were always people ready to teach them but there are so many new players now it's harder for those who want the help to find it.

This is why I've advocated new players finding guilds who help new players on myddo, there are still many guilds happy to help people who want advice or help or just someone to bounce ideas or questions off of.

KoboldTrapper
02-06-2010, 06:38 PM
wow... just... wow...
In the tabletop, a party of clerics is unstoppable against any threat apart from traps, and atheists. lol.

Spoprockel
02-06-2010, 07:12 PM
I think i have met one of those clerics in Gwylans stand once. It was amazing.

I was the other cleric. He came in with leather armor and a bow. He kept kiting mobs through the whole area while our mage had set up a firewall. He didn't even stay close to me to heal him, nor did he heal himself more than a single time during that whole quest. And all the time he was only using his bow, kiting mobs all away from the firewalls.

The worst part was when we fought meneater. Two people died from aoe spells, he was one of them. With 4/5 of his blue bar full.

Worst cleric i've ever seen.

And i agree with cdemeritt, this doesn't sound like an F2P issue. There's no difference between free and paying bad players.

Orratti
02-06-2010, 07:34 PM
I am already impressed with you as a new player when I read in your post that you actually had a wand. The number of players I have ran across recently that don't seem to know that wands and healing potions exist is astounding. It doesn't bother me too much as most of my characters are self sufficient and I don't mind playing party cleric with a ranger while still battling it out in melee because I enjoy the challenge. What does annoy me a bit though is when I am blowing my resources party healing in a group with another ranger 2 paladins and a bard with the rest not healing at all. If they do it only lasts until loh and spell points are drained.

The fact that there are people willing to play a cleric nowadays is surprising. Perhaps that is why you ended up with so many in your party because they figure since you are already there you will do the healing and they won't have to do any. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were in their 1st party because they won't go in a group of players expecting them to keep them up because now it is so very hard with poor low lvl play. Clerics and healers don't even get asked if they need donations to cover expenses as they did once upon a time.

Now if you really want to put some icing on the cake tell me someone got ****ed because you didn't heal them or let them die.

[edit] not sure how helpful rouge would have been except to add a little color to the corpses.

Milikki
02-06-2010, 07:50 PM
Im in the same boat at you here, getting frustrated with people.

TWICE today, my rogue was searching for traps when the group just ran ahead. Sprung the trap and guess who died...

And this was after I said "trap", and about half-way through searching for the panel. I guess they just didnt see the little animation, or read the party chat.

Xeraphim
02-06-2010, 07:55 PM
In my experience an uber group has nothing to do with classes.

Correct.

Back on Mabar, we did Elite content with "Bring whatever you like" parties. 6 fighters(level cap 10) in VON 3 got sticky, but we made it all the same, without recalling out or re-entering once. It got a bit hairier in the Menechtarun on No-Healer Elite runs, but we got through those fine too... they just happened to be rather costly is all.

There is no excuse for incompetent human beings, but they permeate our world of late, vying to be recognized for their meager and inconsequential accomplishments. The rest of us have to pull the slack, and that's where you get Zergers from - those accustomed to soloing a dungeon with 5 soulstones in his pack, carefully avoiding shrines in order to avoid more anxiety, discomfort and mayhem.

Begineizer
02-06-2010, 07:58 PM
[edit] not sure how helpful rouge would have been except to add a little color to the corpses.

ROFL



Anyway, I'm a level 8 Cleric, this is my first "serious" character, and I do understand your pain!

But the bottom line is we've all been in a bad party. The worst one are impatient party, it's like they're running to their death or something. When that happens, I just leave after the quest (or everyone died) and look for another party.

But that seldom happens (maybe 1 party out of 10). Can't really say noob players are a problem to the game.

Dobneygrum
02-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Wow comrade, French speaking party of level 9 clerics??? By the way, bookbinder rescue is part of the Sharn Syndicate pack, so you guys were either premium or vips, not exactly pure F2P.

Anyway, just because the party is full of clerics it doesn't mean that its an uber group. An uber group is one that has a variety of classes. And imo, level 9 is still an excusable level to make mistakes, maybe those were their first characters perhaps?

Well let's see... I haven't paid for anything since I've started playing, I can only post in the f2p section, and I bought Sharn Syndicate with free Turbine points... so strikes me like I'm f2p.

Did I say it was an ubergroup? Pretty sure I didn't. I said it was a party full of level 9 clerics, and it was.

I agree level 9 players can still make mistakes, but for clerics to refuse to heal themselves... even when they are near death between battles with full mana bars... it is hardly an excusable mistake. Would you have reacted the same way if I had said that I was in a group of 4 level 9 Barbarians and 3 of them didn't have weapons? Or a party of level 9 Wizards who didn't cast any spells?

Dobneygrum
02-06-2010, 08:25 PM
Thank-you to those who can share my pain... I agree that it isn't really an f2p vs. p2p thing, but I can only post in the f2p section, and I wanted people to read the post :).

I also agree with cdemeritt that there needn't have been a "healer", but it is sometimes useful to have one person watching the health bars so that those who can really dish out the damage don't need to stop hitting and heal.

Sweetsoul86
02-06-2010, 08:32 PM
Thank-you to those who can share my pain... I agree that it isn't really an f2p vs. p2p thing, but I can only post in the f2p section, and I wanted people to read the post :).


You should think about using my.ddo.com because if you post these sorts of things as a blog you'll still get a lot of people reading from both f2p and p2p. ^_^

Talon_Oakenleaf
02-06-2010, 08:58 PM
I am new to DDO and I picked a cleric for my first toon. Why you might ask, simple I did not know you could play in groups. But since I have been playing in groups I have played with some great people and at times I have played in some horrible groups. The ones I hate are the groups that everyone takes off in different directions and I am left there wonderring who to follow. Or the groups that rush head long into everythng so I hear your pain. Sad thing is some people play the same maps over and over again for whatever reason they have memorized every freakin leaf, they forget that some people don't know where they are going. Good luck in finding somewhere to fit in.

Sweetsoul86
02-06-2010, 09:52 PM
Sad thing is some people play the same maps over and over again for whatever reason they have memorized every freakin leaf, they forget that some people don't know where they are going.

It's not so sad when you think some people have 10+ characters and they've had to run the quest on normal, hard, and elite, especially if it's got good loot or xp. Eventually you just start knowing where things are, I've been playing close to 2 yrs and I still get lost a lot of the time but there are some quests that I could probably do in my sleep simply because I've run them so many times on different toons, this happens even more with lower level quests because I don't even know how many toons I've made then scrapped because I messed it up in some way or another or I just didn't like the class or the race or whatever.

Yes, you are right that a lot of people forget that not everyone knows their way around but this is where YOU have to be vigilant, it's your own responsibility to let people know that you don't know the quest or haven't done it enough to find your way. In most cases people will tell you where you need to be or wait for you to help you get through and in some cases they'll be stupidly rude and leave you behind. You win some, you lose some. I know that when I'm in a group and someone doesn't tell me they're a new player or that they're not sure where to go it can get frustrating because I can't read your mind and I don't know if you're just messing around or if you need help, most of the time I'll just ask if you're a new player but not everyone does.

Best of luck to you.

TekkenDevil
02-07-2010, 03:02 AM
Personally, in groups people either play my way, or they get to endure me free-riding and standing still doing nothing in quests 'cause they obviously don't need my help. Then when they all die, I laugh in their face and leave.

An A-hole solution, but dang if it doesn't save me from alot of headaches.....

Krag
02-07-2010, 05:19 AM
Correct.

Back on Mabar, we did Elite content with "Bring whatever you like" parties. 6 fighters(level cap 10) in VON 3 got sticky, but we made it all the same, without recalling out or re-entering once. It got a bit hairier in the Menechtarun on No-Healer Elite runs, but we got through those fine too... they just happened to be rather costly is all.


Incorrect.

Uber <> costly

Salsa
02-07-2010, 07:07 AM
Im in the same boat at you here, getting frustrated with people.

TWICE today, my rogue was searching for traps when the group just ran ahead. Sprung the trap and guess who died...

And this was after I said "trap", and about half-way through searching for the panel. I guess they just didnt see the little animation, or read the party chat.

Yes but there is a certain level of amusement (or is it just shock?) going thru a Dungeon on elite, saying 'stop there's a trap'. Watching a player run past you, die in it, then watch the rest of your party try to run thru it or rescue the dead that went before and die. Then finally finish disarming the trap to see yourself being the only one left alive.

'Well, the trap is disarmed now guys...guys?'

Gleep_Wurp
02-07-2010, 07:30 AM
when i read this. that rice a roni shot out my nose.:)

seldarin
02-07-2010, 07:49 AM
Well let's see... I haven't paid for anything since I've started playing, I can only post in the f2p section, and I bought Sharn Syndicate with free Turbine points... so strikes me like I'm f2p.

Did I say it was an ubergroup? Pretty sure I didn't. I said it was a party full of level 9 clerics, and it was.

I agree level 9 players can still make mistakes, but for clerics to refuse to heal themselves... even when they are near death between battles with full mana bars... it is hardly an excusable mistake. Would you have reacted the same way if I had said that I was in a group of 4 level 9 Barbarians and 3 of them didn't have weapons? Or a party of level 9 Wizards who didn't cast any spells?

Lol, been in those groups mate. Doing gwylans, caster cast haste twice during the whole quest, and even then it wasnt extended. Asked for it that many times, in the end gave up. Who died the most in it, why the caster in his uber Firewalls. Another group, was on my ranger using wands to heal myself. Cleric didnt heal anyone, including themselves, then got the ***** up when i vented.

The char i was on is my evasion/kensai/tempest rogue/fighter/ranger. When it came to traps, i said i guess i will do the job i was employed to do, ie the traps. When i explained that i didnt think it unreasonable for me to expect a caster to cast haste and a cleric to heal when we needed it, they still didnt seem to get the concept. But when it came time for the caster to need to catch up to the group, he found the haste spell.

No matter what you do, you will always come across stupid players. Nothing to do with class or level, its inbuilt into them. Cant change it, never will. Doesnt make it right. Best bet is to laugh at them when they die, make a note of who they are, who they belong to if guilded and give them all a freeway bypass.

adamkatt
02-07-2010, 08:33 AM
Well let's see... I haven't paid for anything since I've started playing, I can only post in the f2p section, and I bought Sharn Syndicate with free Turbine points... so strikes me like I'm f2p.

Did I say it was an ubergroup? Pretty sure I didn't. I said it was a party full of level 9 clerics, and it was.

I agree level 9 players can still make mistakes, but for clerics to refuse to heal themselves... even when they are near death between battles with full mana bars... it is hardly an excusable mistake. Would you have reacted the same way if I had said that I was in a group of 4 level 9 Barbarians and 3 of them didn't have weapons? Or a party of level 9 Wizards who didn't cast any spells?

Those were some dumb clerics! hahah

Ishbel
02-07-2010, 08:54 AM
Wow. Just wow. I know there's some bad players out there and bad clerics, but how you managed to get an entire group of them is amazing. Don't buy a lottery ticket this week. You have terrible luck.

Sweetsoul86
02-08-2010, 07:33 AM
Wow. Just wow. I know there's some bad players out there and bad clerics, but how you managed to get an entire group of them is amazing. Don't buy a lottery ticket this week. You have terrible luck.

ROFLMFAO...... +1rep

ivar415
02-08-2010, 08:32 AM
Guess everybody missed that Sharn Syndicate pack was 50% off some 2 weeks ago?

Could very well be F2P (dare I say WoWtards?). Guess I do. :D

A good rant is always appreciated. :cool:
And you had more than ample reason.

Artis_Resistance
02-08-2010, 12:30 PM
Could very well be F2P (dare I say WoWtards?). Guess I do. :D

I would assume "WoWtards" wouldn't be that incompetent when it comes to playing what they'd perceive to be a "healer" class." My assumption leads me to simply drop the WoW part of that descriptor and just call them "tards."

edsrose
02-08-2010, 02:22 PM
Could very well be F2P (dare I say WoWtards?). Guess I do. :D
.

Well being new to DDO (heck I'm that new it's still downloading), I thought I'd read some of the forum posts, see what DDO was about, I came across this thread and being recently liberated of the WoW shackles (I finally came to my senses) I can understand where Dobney is coming from. Yes it was a completly different game but not all of us "ex-WoW" players are "WoWtards...as someone like myself if i were in the same position as Dobney I'd also expect a full group of clerics (i need to look into each class in more depth but i understand the basic concept of clerics by this post alone) to at least heal themselves between battles or at the very least to let "the healer" have the opportunity to top up their mana pool (sorry I don't know the correct terms as yet), particulary as in WoW i was a healer and in that game have experienced my fair share of bad groups and so can understand the frustration.

**I also apologise about any poor spelling :)

Sweetsoul86
02-08-2010, 09:59 PM
Well being new to DDO (heck I'm that new it's still downloading), I thought I'd read some of the forum posts, see what DDO was about, I came across this thread and being recently liberated of the WoW shackles (I finally came to my senses) I can understand where Dobney is coming from. Yes it was a completly different game but not all of us "ex-WoW" players are "WoWtards...as someone like myself if i were in the same position as Dobney I'd also expect a full group of clerics (i need to look into each class in more depth but i understand the basic concept of clerics by this post alone) to at least heal themselves between battles or at the very least to let "the healer" have the opportunity to top up their mana pool (sorry I don't know the correct terms as yet), particulary as in WoW i was a healer and in that game have experienced my fair share of bad groups and so can understand the frustration.

**I also apologise about any poor spelling :)

We all know that not everyone that plays wow is a wowtard but there's an overabundance of people who come from wow and tell everyone that they know whats best and ignore all help and avoid learning anything new so it becomes a popular stereotype. I'm sure most of us know someone who plays wow and we just keep trying to convert them ;)

Clerics are healers, very few people who make clerics intend them for battle and the ones intended for battle unless done well aren't usually what a party is looking for in a cleric. They are supposed to above all heal themselves because at the end of the fight if my cleric isn't alive something went wrong, I should be the last one standing so I can save everyone else's butts and raise them or get them to a shrine to raise them from the dead. Healing the party is the general goal but a lot of clerics do draw a line at trying to cure stupid, we don't heal around corners and we don't chase people down to heal them etc.

If you're on the khyber server at all feel free to look up Band of Skull there's always someone from my guild on and we'd be happy to help you with any questions or help you need.

Yagi
02-09-2010, 04:27 AM
Guess everybody missed that Sharn Syndicate pack was 50% off some 2 weeks ago?

Could very well be F2P (dare I say WoWtards?). Guess I do. :D

A good rant is always appreciated. :cool:
And you had more than ample reason.

ya know, whenever I hear disparaging comments about wow players all I think is "there is somebody who does not have much experience with this genre of gaming" Since awful players have been around since day 1 of mmo's.

I know its trendy to hate on the popular game but really, a bad/ignorant player in and from any setting is still bad/ignorant.

edsrose
02-09-2010, 05:17 AM
We all know that not everyone that plays wow is a wowtard but there's an overabundance of people who come from wow and tell everyone that they know whats best and ignore all help and avoid learning anything new so it becomes a popular stereotype. I'm sure most of us know someone who plays wow and we just keep trying to convert them ;)

Clerics are healers, very few people who make clerics intend them for battle and the ones intended for battle unless done well aren't usually what a party is looking for in a cleric. They are supposed to above all heal themselves because at the end of the fight if my cleric isn't alive something went wrong, I should be the last one standing so I can save everyone else's butts and raise them or get them to a shrine to raise them from the dead. Healing the party is the general goal but a lot of clerics do draw a line at trying to cure stupid, we don't heal around corners and we don't chase people down to heal them etc.

If you're on the khyber server at all feel free to look up Band of Skull there's always someone from my guild on and we'd be happy to help you with any questions or help you need.

Thanks Sweetsoul...I'll be sure to keep a look out for you guys. Last night I had the problem of moving (if i could) and interacting with that rogue on the shore when you first start. So I'm reinstalling the game to see if that helps :D
To be honest I'm going to be a bit of a noob/newbie for a while but that's part of the thrill of trying something new. So I'm gonna be one of these players who would rather look stupid and ask a "silly" question than pee off other players by being ignorant and thinking that I know how to play DDO when I have only just got the basic movements sorted lol.

Daedalis
02-09-2010, 05:56 AM
My favorite motto for a cleric....and I have it posted on my clerics bio.

I Can't Heal Stoopid!

Fighter: Hey....my name's not Stoopid, it's Daed!
Cleric: You mean Dead, right?
Fighter:Oopps....:o

Greyhawk6
02-09-2010, 12:37 PM
Worst experience I had was in EQ2 when we were a gnats wing from getting a rare update and the healer's cordless mouse ran out of batteries and he fell off a cliff...

7 day lockout. Was seething for a week.

Sweetsoul86
02-09-2010, 04:14 PM
Thanks Sweetsoul...I'll be sure to keep a look out for you guys. Last night I had the problem of moving (if i could) and interacting with that rogue on the shore when you first start. So I'm reinstalling the game to see if that helps :D
To be honest I'm going to be a bit of a noob/newbie for a while but that's part of the thrill of trying something new. So I'm gonna be one of these players who would rather look stupid and ask a "silly" question than pee off other players by being ignorant and thinking that I know how to play DDO when I have only just got the basic movements sorted lol.

Try not to have any other programs running while you're playing, it tends to slow things up quite a bit. Also, if you hit O and open your social panel and click on the "Who" list, uncheck where is says "Any" and hit search, this will basically turn off the who list and helps cut lag for a lot of people. Sometimes if there's a lot of lag relogging into the game can help too. ^_^ Good luck again!

Fomori
02-09-2010, 04:51 PM
Try not to have any other programs running while you're playing, it tends to slow things up quite a bit. Also, if you hit O and open your social panel and click on the "Who" list, uncheck where is says "Any" and hit search, this will basically turn off the who list and helps cut lag for a lot of people. Sometimes if there's a lot of lag relogging into the game can help too. ^_^ Good luck again!

Sometimes I've checked my resources when its running laggy and seen the DDO process in the 700k-800k range. I'm not sure if there is a memory leak (always possible to miss a deallocation in millions of lines of code) or something else, but restarting the game usually helps.

CKasulka
02-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Personally, in groups people either play my way, or they get to endure me free-riding and standing still doing nothing in quests 'cause they obviously don't need my help. Then when they all die, I laugh in their face and leave.

An A-hole solution, but dang if it doesn't save me from alot of headaches.....

Amen

xanvar
02-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Well honestly it looks like Karma jumped up and bit you. If you shared the other 5 Clerics with 5 other groups then there could be Six Rants talking about bad healers ruining a run. :)

phalaeo
02-09-2010, 10:28 PM
Well honestly it looks like Karma jumped up and bit you. If you shared the other 5 Clerics with 5 other groups then there could be Six Rants talking about bad healers ruining a run. :)

+1 rep. Exactly what I was thinking.