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satanofmetal
02-06-2010, 12:00 AM
It is bout the new Wizard Prestige class, the Pale Master. The outcome +45% dmg on negative spells would be great...If Wizards have real dmg spells that actually uses negative energy. I can be mistaken, but wizards got few (actually i just can remember one spell - Chill Touch) that does negative damage. I think wizards, in order to use the full potential of this new prestige class, should have more powerfull spells using negative energy spells, such the divine line Inflict Wounds series.

Well, feel free to share your ideias ^^

Ps: Sorry bout any grammar mistaken

Steampunkie
02-06-2010, 01:11 AM
It is bout the new Wizard Prestige class, the Pale Master. The outcome +45% dmg on negative spells would be great...If Wizards have real dmg spells that actually uses negative energy. I can be mistaken, but wizards got few (actually i just can remember one spell - Chill Touch) that does negative damage. I think wizards, in order to use the full potential of this new prestige class, should have more powerfull spells using negative energy spells, such the divine line Inflict Wounds series.

Well, feel free to share your ideias ^^

Ps: Sorry bout any grammar mistaken

As bad as his grammar is, he's right.

Finger of Death also deals 3d6 Negative on a failed Fort save. Do I really want a 45% increase on 3d6 by the time I can Cast FoD? Or would 5d8+12 x 1.45 make more sense?

-Rachel-

WizardsofZen
02-19-2010, 05:55 AM
does Enervation (lvl 4 wiz/sorc) work?

Velexia
02-19-2010, 05:58 AM
It is bout the new Wizard Prestige class, the Pale Master. The outcome +45% dmg on negative spells would be great...If Wizards have real dmg spells that actually uses negative energy. I can be mistaken, but wizards got few (actually i just can remember one spell - Chill Touch) that does negative damage. I think wizards, in order to use the full potential of this new prestige class, should have more powerfull spells using negative energy spells, such the divine line Inflict Wounds series.

Well, feel free to share your ideias ^^

Ps: Sorry bout any grammar mistaken

On a failed save, Finger of Death does Negative Energy damage, but that doesn't change the overall lack of spells to use.

Aesop
02-19-2010, 06:07 AM
does Enervation (lvl 4 wiz/sorc) work?

No as that is not "damage"


However...

Vampiric Touch would be a great spell to add to the game

THough I definately think it will need to be rethought on actual implimentation



Vampiric Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.



Maybe instead gain 5 Temp HP per level or the amount of damage done whichever is lower.

And maybe just for the Pale Masters have it heal you if you are undead straight up.


or maybe just have it heal you one way or the other

Aesop

Bogenbroom
02-19-2010, 08:18 AM
Horrid Wilting is a necrotic spell too... Far and away the highest damage one.

LunaCee
02-19-2010, 10:36 AM
Horrid Wilting is evaporation damage though... aka untyped for this game.

As for ways to actually get it to be useful...

Negative Energy Ray
Negative Energy Burst

Drfirewater79
02-25-2010, 09:27 AM
I am surprised Turbine staff havent piped up with this thread

I am really interested in finding out how turbine plans to make Pale master worth a cent for anyone who is not a arcanetrickster build (i use litch form for an additional +1 to search for epic attempts )

i think negative energy ray and burst (using the prismatic ray and cone skins) would be awesome.

I just scanned through a spell list online and i dont know to many other negative energy spells in the game at all .... that is unless they are planning to add the feat that allows you to change the type of damage your spells do .... forget what its called think its energy substitution .... if they do that negative energy firewalls will be fun as hell.

Bogenbroom
02-25-2010, 11:49 AM
Horrid Wilting is evaporation damage though... aka untyped for this game.


Well, I only have 1 thing to say to that, sir!

um, bummer. My bad! :)

Doxmaster
02-25-2010, 12:14 PM
Hmm...but if us Pale masters could cast negative enery spells, and use the currently useless ability were were given, we would be too powerful! In fact, casting spells as a lich or wraith is already too powerful! NERF IT!

Jokes aside, does the negative energy boost work on necrotic touch? If so, then it's still useless, but at least it's being applied somewhere.

Daehawk
02-25-2010, 12:18 PM
Jokes aside, does the negative energy boost work on necrotic touch? If so, then it's still useless, but at least it's being applied somewhere.

Yeah it is supposed to boost it since it is negative energy damage. The only other thing it boosts iirc is Chill Touch (Spell Level 1).

I posted a few spells that could use Negative Energy Damage if added in my spells section for my PM Suggestion: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2740397

Doxmaster
02-25-2010, 01:05 PM
Oh ya...I remember that thread.

Anyway, I can't really count a 1d6 damage-5d6 damage, level 1 spell as a real spell...dropping a maximized, empowered, negative energy boosted Chilling Touch would do...how much damamge could it do?

Daehawk
02-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Oh ya...I remember that thread.

Anyway, I can't really count a 1d6 damage-5d6 damage, level 1 spell as a real spell...dropping a maximized, empowered, negative energy boosted Chilling Touch would do...how much damamge could it do?

Didn't feel like taking the PM Prestige on my live character. So I tested it without it.
Maximized + Empowered + Enlarge = 49 SP on my 20 Wizard.
Maximized + Empowered = 41 SP on my 20 Wizard.
The other thing I have that boosts Negative Energy is my Death's Touch(30% and +9% Crit +.25 mult), but I have Superior Potency VI(+50%). PM 3 would be +45% with critical +9% and 1.5 multi. So the numbers will be off vs it with only PM. PM + Death's Touch would make it do more.

But here are the numbers I just got from testing on stuff.(+50% Potency + Maximize + Empower)
Non-Crit Chill Touch(+50% Potency): 78-93 Negative Energy Damage
Crit Chill Touch(.25 multiplier): 157-183 Negative Energy Damage

Edit:
While Necrotic Touch from my testing on the build when Update 3 was originally released: PM3+Death's Touch
Non-Crit Necrotic Touch(from my testing): 100-130 Negative Energy Damage
Crit Necrotic Touch: Could never get it to crit. Theory wise it should be between 123-368.
At the cost of 1 hp and 1 sp.

So Chill Touch Max + Empower as a PM3 would probably be around that of Necrotic Touch is right now. Just costs a lot more SP.

Drfirewater79
02-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Oh ya...I remember that thread.

Anyway, I can't really count a 1d6 damage-5d6 damage, level 1 spell as a real spell...dropping a maximized, empowered, negative energy boosted Chilling Touch would do...how much damamge could it do?

max 5d6 (These numbers are assuming you are high enough level for PMIII enhancement line)

low end................high end

5 .....base.... 30
7.5 .....emp..... 45
15 .....max..... 90
22.5 ..sup pote. 135
32.6 ...PMIII.... 195.75

that is the non crit numbers based on math not in game mechanics

major neg energy lore item 9% x 1.5 + pre PMIII 9% x 0.5 should mean crits of

87.2 low end and 523.4 high end

this is all assuming the enhancements stack with the items including the crit numbers

i personally haven't seen higher then 40 but i havent been playing with it enough ...think i am gonna go do some mid level stuff today and stone them all and then one at a time test the limits of this power now that i have done the math.

Daehawk
02-25-2010, 01:50 PM
max 5d6 (These numbers are assuming you are high enough level for PMIII enhancement line)

low end................high end

5 .....base.... 30
7.5 .....emp..... 45
15 .....max..... 90
22.5 ..sup pote. 135
32.6 ...PMIII.... 195.75

that is the non crit numbers based on math not in game mechanics

major neg energy lore item 9% x 1.5 + pre PMIII 9% x 0.5 should mean crits of

87.2 low end and 523.4 high end

this is all assuming the enhancements stack with the items including the crit numbers

i personally haven't seen higher then 40 but i havent been playing with it enough ...think i am gonna go do some mid level stuff today and stone them all and then one at a time test the limits of this power now that i have done the math.

Thanks for running the numbers. I tested in game without PMIII in game. Only thing you mistyped, but the results you had should be the same was "major neg energy lore item 9% x 1.5 + pre PMIII 9% x 0.5" Major Void Lore is 9% x0.5 and PMIII is 9% x 1.5. Just had the multipliers flip flopped ^_^.

Doxmaster
02-25-2010, 01:52 PM
Dr fire, dont empower and maximize not directly stack? I'm pretty sure it ends up as base spell + empower's bonus +max's bonus or, 1 from normal spell + .5 empower and +1 maximize...so you get something like 2.5 instead of 3.

Drfirewater79
02-26-2010, 10:17 AM
After testing i dont think the pale master thingy stacks with the weapon features highest i saw non crit was 135 with chill touch but cost 87 sp each touch so compared to the 100 i was getting against the same creatures with necrotic touch for 1 sp cost at same range ... necrotic touch isnt that bad.

of course even with the void lore i didnt see one crit in like 10 or 15 shots so not sure that void lore is working at all

anyway i did some looking and found two good spells that could be added both necromancy and negative energy damage

Fleshshiver nec lvl 6

Stunned for 1 rnd (monsters whos CR > casters LvL get fort save to resist)
Fort save or take 1d6/lvl (max 15d6) and are nauseated for 1d4 rounds


Nights Caress nec 5

1d6/lvl (15d6) + 1d6+2 con damage (fort save to resist con damage)
fears undead but does not damage them

especially the lvl 5 spell should be added.

Drfirewater79
02-26-2010, 10:27 AM
I just did another test and prolly not top numbers for a crit but

(Combat): You hit Frost Giant Cleric for 195 points of negative damage.

still not worth 87 sp

highest necrotic touch so far

(Combat): You hit Frost Giant Cleric for 108 points of negative damage.

Daehawk
02-26-2010, 11:31 AM
of course even with the void lore i didnt see one crit in like 10 or 15 shots so not sure that void lore is working at all


Talking about Necrotic Touch there? Yeah honestly I don't think it can crit. From all the testing on Lam I did, never once did I get it to crit.


I just did another test and prolly not top numbers for a crit but

(Combat): You hit Frost Giant Cleric for 195 points of negative damage.

still not worth 87 sp

highest necrotic touch so far

(Combat): You hit Frost Giant Cleric for 108 points of negative damage.

What all are you using to get it to be 87 SP cost? Which Metamagics? And on which character are you doing it on? Your 18 Wiz/2 Rogue in your sig? Just wondering. Because if you look up a few posts on my Wizard with Max + Emp + Enlarge was only costing me 49 SP for Chill Touch and the highest I hit with it on a crit was 183 and that's as a non-Pale Master.

Drfirewater79
03-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Talking about Necrotic Touch there? Yeah honestly I don't think it can crit. From all the testing on Lam I did, never once did I get it to crit.



What all are you using to get it to be 87 SP cost? Which Metamagics? And on which character are you doing it on? Your 18 Wiz/2 Rogue in your sig? Just wondering. Because if you look up a few posts on my Wizard with Max + Emp + Enlarge was only costing me 49 SP for Chill Touch and the highest I hit with it on a crit was 183 and that's as a non-Pale Master.

using heighten max emp and extend are almost always on for me i never turn anything off with almost 2k sp i dont run out much ... yeah my 18wiz 2 rouge is my only wiz.

I will fix my post numbers using only additive from base to see actual tops

I do know that the sup potency works with necrotic so i assume lores work but have yet to see it myself.

LunaCee
03-01-2010, 11:44 AM
Wrong! Tested and tried, but Potency and Nihil do NOT work with necrotic touch. We figured that out a good while back.

Mockduck
03-01-2010, 03:58 PM
I may have rose-colored glasses on, but I have to believe that the lack of very many neg energy spells despite the rollout of Pale Master is a sign that we're gonna see a bunch of new spells in DDO this year. Hope I'm right!

Aesop
03-01-2010, 03:59 PM
I may have rose-colored glasses on, but I have to believe that the lack of very many neg energy spells despite the rollout of Pale Master is a sign that we're gonna see a bunch of new spells in DDO this year. Hope I'm right!

Here's hopin duck

Drfirewater79
03-03-2010, 01:56 PM
cannot believe that we cannot get word one out of the dev's about if harm scrolls will be added to vendor lists soon .... no word about new spells not even a yeah we are working on it for a future update or nothing.

god i hate company silence when it effects me so directly

Daehawk
03-05-2010, 02:13 AM
So I did some more Chill Touch testing of that spell. Not sure if many people are aware of this. I know I wasn't...but mainly because I hadn't really used the spell before that much at all. But when we were talking about it the other day I noticed the save was only for the Strength Damage and the Fear. Meaning the Negative energy damage cannot be resisted. I thought hmm maybe the for non-undead they get some type of unlisted save.

Went out in the vale and walked around using it on the demon area between Coal and Running and it was all 73-108 Negative Energy damage for 49 SP(Max+Emp+Enlarge). Didn't have it heightened so the spell level was still level 1 with a save of 29. Maybe none of them could make a 29? So then went into Ritual Sacrifice for a bit on Elite alone to test it on things see if they would save. No saves vs the damage just the strength.

So at least that's a plus for it? Too bad it is still only 5d6...a pale master should be able to get it to do more than the 73-108 non-crit 142-183 crit I pulled out while running around a bit ago. 41 SP without enlarge. How many things other than Undead have a thing vs Negative energy damage?



Drfirewater79: So I was looking at your numbers again for chill touch and was wondering why they seemed off to me and then it struck me. Were you doing the math based on the spell being 5d6? Spells aren't rolled like weapon damage. When it says 5d6 it's actually rolled as 10d3. Which would of been why some of your Low-End numbers felt really low to me if you were basing them say off of 5 vs 10.



I may have rose-colored glasses on, but I have to believe that the lack of very many neg energy spells despite the rollout of Pale Master is a sign that we're gonna see a bunch of new spells in DDO this year. Hope I'm right!

Hope so. Also hope that if they do they let Wizards redo their spells a little, but probably not we'll have to like LR. I didn't have any spells to choose on my wizard for level 18, 19 or 20 since I had them all from scrolls I found / bought cheap on AH.

Drfirewater79
03-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Drfirewater79: So I was looking at your numbers again for chill touch and was wondering why they seemed off to me and then it struck me. Were you doing the math based on the spell being 5d6? Spells aren't rolled like weapon damage. When it says 5d6 it's actually rolled as 10d3. Which would of been why some of your Low-End numbers felt really low to me if you were basing them say off of 5 vs 10.

You can get a 5 .. its possible not if your max or empowered and it requires a bad bad roll ...

i have seen many below 10 when not boosted ...

the numbers are off however and i just havent doubled them back yet mainly cause lazy

it was brought to my attention that the enhancements only enhance the base damage so potency doesnt directly stack with the new base from empower and maximize

if i plan to take the time again i will do a new list but highest i have seen so far on a crit is 190 ish and that was with two full mana bars of testing.