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5thofnovember
02-04-2010, 11:35 AM
With update 3 u can now summon only one Elly at a time and I can understand why the devs did this, but I have 5 tunes that I made multiple Shroud earth summon clickies on to facilitate my solo play style, which no longer function in that capacity.

Now if the stone to craft the greensteel for the lrg number i made where not hard to get and the twigs and such not so hard to get, it would not be that big of a deal. But when I pay a montly fee with no new content out for almost a year so I spend that grinding out Vale quest repeatedly to farm the nessesary ingredients to make to make these items which I can no longer use in the same unrestricted manner, DDO as taught me that that hard effort and focus on equipping ones self will not only go unrewarded but be penalized.

Now before you start flaming this post read on abit more.

Imagine 5 + tunes with 4+ shroud ele clickies made consisting of the following ingredients
20 Stones of battle
20 stones of strategy
20 stones of foresight
20 stones of might
20 stones of Victory
20 twigs (triple # of times i had to run quest to get all the twigs I needed)
60 husk
60 petals
40 funk
40 pebbles
20 fungi
and all of this just from the vale quest now on to the hard to get stuff
Running Shroud religously every 3 days per tune to try and farm the following
40 Small (AND) Medium Arrowheads
40 Small and Medium Bones
40 Small and Medium Chains
40 Small and Medium shrapnel
40 Small and Medium Scales (getting all of these where like getting twigs) for small and medium
40 Small and Medium Stones
40 sm cells
40 med cells
this was going with the earth opposition material recipe and crafting greensteel goggles since they used less twigs
Then collecting and or charging 40 of each energy cell type, and since alot of the ones I looted where uncharged I had to charge them with loot i would have normally sold cutting into my plat reserves forcing me to take a break from my crafting runs just to build my income back up.
ok and now heres the real Killer
*40 SMALL POWER SHARDS* i've had tunes run the Shroud 10 to 20 times and not get a small power shard so this was a big stumbling block on my mass crafting focus. And with a 3 day wait between shrouds since I was also trying to farm the greaters I needed also and remember this is just for the Tier 2 version.

I easily ran over 200 shrouds (just to make these alone) on the tunes I made these for with the 3 day timer factored in between runs to get all the items needed to craft these, that took 7 to 9 months of play in shroud and Vale(conservative estimate due to twig farming in coal chamber and rainbow and need for small power shards) with a heavy focus on the shroud yanked out from under me by this paticular change in update 3. Now I can understand why DDO did this (doesnt mean I like it) but If I can summon these i'm less likely to buy hirelings from the DDO store and we cant have anything stand in the way of that, and it forces solo play styles to group more, which increases grouping base which will help the game grow.

But to destroy all that hard work is insane and taught me (NOT TO CRAFT IN DDO) you will be penalized if you suceed too well in it. And on other side of the coin the strangers you are trying to grp with can look your tune up on the Forums and see what type of gear ur equipped with and exclude you from groupings if you dont have preferred raid loot on crafted wpns. Its a lose lose scenario.

Now I'm not asking them to reverse their decision they made for this item on Update 3. All Im asking is if they are gonna stick by this at least make it possible at some point to change these to bind to account instead of player so I can spread them around to diff tunes I have so its not a total loss of my time and effort and dedication to sticking with the game when things stagnated for a long time and the player base dropped off drastically, to the point DDO was combining servers to keep enough ppl together to keep the game alive.

Its a simple fix (bind to account) and keeps me a loyal happy (VIP+VET) customer who will not be scared to craft or focus on obtaining certain ingame items. Because if ppl are worried about this happening to them they are less likely to have fun and suceed in the game and if its not fun they wont stay around forever to have hard word and loyalty rewarded by major nerfs.


Thanks for your consideration on this matter and take into account on future updates how they can impact ppls hard work and focus on other crafting matters. Overall I generally enjoy the game and I see great potential for it if they listen to the players and tweak a few areas as they add more new content. When you factor in the time and ingredients I've spent on weapons and other clothing items made in the shroud I've spent more time in the shroud than any other part of the game crafting and now I'm worried what will be ruined next if this is not fixed, And I've made more wpns to tier 3 than Ive made ele clickies.

Oh yes one other solution would be to allow me to deconstruct the ones I dont need anymore, so I get all the resources back (including power cells) but then you will have to increase bank space so I have room to store 40 small shards and 40 med shards since they wont go in ingredients bags.

The difference between 1 earth elly and 2 earth ellys is the same as the difference between 1 person trying to vorp a monster vs 2 ppl trying to vorpal a monster (more earths= more earth grabs which = more auto critting) for myself and or party just as more players using vorpals in a party = more 20s more insta kills meaning less death of party members less healing required on them or self.
so you get someone with 3 or 4 earth clickies who can summon 6 to 8 your almost always going to have something being earth grabbed that you can autocrit.

And the sad thing is they didnt affect high lvl play because in Amrath or higher type quest they where temp agro magnets at best and the CR rating of monsters there allow them to be killed to fast for much else.

Atenhotep
02-04-2010, 11:41 AM
/signed

I started Playing D&D in 1980. Most of the games over the years I was DM.

If I were to have changed rules mid-game even one time (as the DEVS do here) my players would not have returned.

A HUGE DMing Rule is YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY GIVEN.

Seriously, these people change rules every few months .. that alone should cause us all to cancel our accounts.

But we like the abuse.

We LOVE the abuse.

We must love the abuse because we would have left a long time ago otherwise.

Thelmallen
02-04-2010, 11:57 AM
While I agree that a retroactive change that negatively affects your playstyle is annoying, I'd disagree that you're being penalized. More accurately you're not able to capitalize on the crafting that you did but you aren't being penalized.

I think this post is yet another reason why we need to have greensteel deconstruction in the game. I understand why they're not interested in doing it, believe me, but I really think it is necessary.

Rheebus
02-04-2010, 11:59 AM
You can still have an Earth ele up from the clickie, what did two of them do that one cannot? I wonder if you could bring a specific hierling along for the ride to replace the role that second Earth ele filled in your solo style. Are there any high level ones that can trip?

I too would like to undo crafted items, especially now with reincarnation. It'd be great to be able to recraft the ingredients I've already used. Even if we lost a few in the process of unmaking the items, I'd be happy.

staples
02-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Still works on greensteel as of last night...at least the two from the same item

5thofnovember
02-04-2010, 12:10 PM
You can still have an Earth ele up from the clickie, what did two of them do that one cannot? I wonder if you could bring a specific hierling along for the ride to replace the role that second Earth ele filled in your solo style. Are there any high level ones that can trip?

I too would like to undo crafted items, especially now with reincarnation. It'd be great to be able to recraft the ingredients I've already used. Even if we lost a few in the process of unmaking the items, I'd be happy.

The difference between 1 earth elly and 2 earth ellys is the same as the difference between 1 person trying to vorp a monster vs 2 ppl trying to vorpal a monster (more earths= more earth grabs which = more auto critting) for myself and or party just as more players using vorpals in a party = more 20s more insta kills meaning less death of party members less healing required on them or self.
so you get someone with 3 or 4 earth clickies who can summon 6 to 8 your almost always going to have something being earth grabbed that you can autocrit.

HonricArgent
02-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Damn. I agree that it was time to nerf the Earth Elly Armies, but I cant help but sympathize with you for the massive amount of resources you've dumped into your playstyle. That's commitment.

gavagai
02-04-2010, 12:16 PM
I sympathize, and greensteel recon wouldn't be OP. And if Turb is worried about losing players from less grind, they can make you grind for recon ingredients!

That said, the flocks-of-elementals technique just seems a little cheesy. Just like firewall (and by extension, wizards in general) currently seem a little cheesy. And let's face it, sometimes its good to cut the cheese. ;)

Cyr
02-04-2010, 12:21 PM
We must love the abuse because we would have left a long time ago otherwise.

Many did. I recall server merges and such. Also many took lengthy breaks from the abuse leading directly to less profit for Turbine (I myself took two for about 1.5 year total time away which at my sub rate equals ~$180 less for Turbine from me alone...heck that's a lot less then I've spent to make my account premium and able to play everything in game :)).

adamkatt
02-04-2010, 12:21 PM
While I agree that a retroactive change that negatively affects your playstyle is annoying, I'd disagree that you're being penalized. More accurately you're not able to capitalize on the crafting that you did but you aren't being penalized.

I think this post is yet another reason why we need to have greensteel deconstruction in the game. I understand why they're not interested in doing it, believe me, but I really think it is necessary.

Deconstruction would solve this problem in my eyes.. let us make something else instead of making our old items somewhat useless..

Fomori
02-04-2010, 12:30 PM
I spend that grinding out Vale quest repeatedly to farm the nessesary ingredients to make to make these items
Last I checked farming wasnt a requirement for an account subscription, but a choice.


which I can no longer use in the same unrestricted manner
Things change in life, for better and/or worse. Though anyone over the age of 15 would know that.


DDO as taught me that that hard effort and focus on equipping ones self will not only go unrewarded but be penalized.
Really? Did DDO immediately turn off your account after you made them and then say you can log back in when they tuned them off.

I agree with you in that they should allow you to get the items back from your crafting. In exchange, since they didnt reward you in any way, you have to return every item that those helped you get. Sounds pretty stupid huh? ...

Fomori
02-04-2010, 12:44 PM
/signed

I started Playing D&D in 1980. Most of the games over the years I was DM.

If I were to have changed rules mid-game even one time (as the DEVS do here) my players would not have returned.

A HUGE DMing Rule is YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY GIVEN.

Seriously, these people change rules every few months .. that alone should cause us all to cancel our accounts.

But we like the abuse.

We LOVE the abuse.

We must love the abuse because we would have left a long time ago otherwise.

I started playing DnD early 80's as well, as both a GM and player over the years.

The first rule of good GMing I learned is in giving out correct rewards, and to avoid "monty hauling". The second rule is that if you make a mistake admit it and correct it IMMEDIATELY! Third rule is, its your game... the players are the characters in your vision.

Your Huge DM rule is preposterous. You NEVER let the players run all over your game. There are rational and irrational ways of dealing with correcting mistakes, but to say that you never correct discredits your "GM skills".

Atenhotep
02-04-2010, 03:46 PM
I started playing DnD early 80's as well, as both a GM and player over the years.

The first rule of good GMing I learned is in giving out correct rewards, and to avoid "monty hauling". The second rule is that if you make a mistake admit it and correct it IMMEDIATELY! Third rule is, its your game... the players are the characters in your vision.

Your Huge DM rule is preposterous. You NEVER let the players run all over your game. There are rational and irrational ways of dealing with correcting mistakes, but to say that you never correct discredits your "GM skills".

1. Correct rewards - agreed.

2. No Monty Hauling - agreed .. but you realise this is the biggest clusterf**K Monty Haul game ever right?

3. Your third rule .. well you couldn't be more wrong and that alone means i wouldn't want any part of gaming with you. The Best DMs are a product of the Best Players and the Best DMs use their ears. Your narcissistic "It's my vision, do as you are told" nonsense sounds horrible and is a good way to kill a game with a lack of imagination.

4. My Huge DM rule is not "preposterous."

How you equate that with letting the players run all over your game is beyond me. The two have no connection. But anything for an argument eh?

The first mistake is the Designers not forseeing huge Earth Ellie armies to begin with.

But they did it - it's their responsibility and their burden.

As a DM if I made such a huge mistake I wouldnt make it retroactive and change the past.

The DM is creating a Fantasy World but that world must have some consisteny which the players can rely on - like our own world's natural laws.

I'm quoting directly from Gary Gygax here (who you obvious think has preposterous ideas about DMing) that if we in the real world woke up one morning to find the sky green it would pretty well screw with our foundation .. in fact they have places for people that experience these things called mental institutions.

Likewise a DM can't pull the rug out from the efforts players have made as it creates distrust and weakens the necessary believability in the fantasy world.

I personally never made an earth ellie army as it just seemed like an obvious future nerf but for those who did they are being penalized by this sudden rules change.

If you disagree then please ask the DEVs to turn all your weapons in to jello.

Hey, nobody made you acquire those weapons, right? A little jello never hurt anyone.

Mockduck
02-04-2010, 03:57 PM
I remember seeing my first summoned army post Vale and thinking, "No way that's gonna last..." I'm actually surprised it stuck around for as long as it did. Not that I have a problem with it, frankly, if you're willing to spend the time to craft the item I think you've earned it. I do feel your pain.

Overall, though, I like the summoned changes. I think it's an improvement.

Hey - at least they didn't nerf your green steel item to promote sales of rez stuff in the DDO Store like they did for triple-positive true resurrections....

TheDoctor
02-04-2010, 03:57 PM
This Nerf sux... theres no doubt about it, perhaps they could have spent their time fixing permanently damaged returners or creating more quests. But then again those of us that have been here from the start are used to the nerf fiascoe, this game never has been about DnD alignment but it should at least be about what is fun to play. I don't see the point in all these nerfs except to please a minority group.

Gornin
02-04-2010, 04:03 PM
A HUGE DMing Rule is YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY GIVEN.



Isn't that what Mordenkainens' Disjunction is for? :D

Atenhotep
02-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Isn't that what Mordenkainens' Disjunction is for? :D

Fact! lol

Primalhowl
02-04-2010, 04:32 PM
Aww come on. You NEVER gave the players an item that they managed to misuse in a way you hadn't considered? Then your players were preschoolers compared to the diabolical geniuses I had to work with... at times it felt like I was the DM for Knights of the Dinner Table...

So when I ran games, I used to remove items from the players just to keep them on their toes... that said, it was always done in the context of the story. An inn robbed. An item dropped into lava as the result of a fumble. There were endless story-based methods to remove any item that the players found a way to abuse.

In PnP the trick was to make that loss a reasonable part of the story.

Sadly, there is NO way to use this same method in a video game. Unlike PnP where the story drives the game, in DDO, a computer drives the game for thousands of people at the same time who are all treated in the same manner. Inevitably something will be added that is unbalanced. You have two choices... do nothing or remove the code. There is no "story" mechanism to remove items in the manner you would in a PnP game.

While I feel for the OP and agree that some form of limited deconstruction should be allowed, I think the devs handled this correctly and should have done it much much sooner.

Fomori
02-04-2010, 04:40 PM
2. No Monty Hauling - agreed .. but you realise this is the biggest clusterf**K Monty Haul game ever right?
Yuppers. 3rd Edition rules went there first and DDO took that to the nth degree.


3. Your third rule .. well you couldn't be more wrong and that alone means i wouldn't want any part of gaming with you. The Best DMs are a product of the Best Players and the Best DMs use their ears. Your narcissistic "It's my vision, do as you are told" nonsense sounds horrible and is a good way to kill a game with a lack of imagination.
That is the most extreme way of interpreting that...
I was looking more toward a version where you have a world created and the NPCs in the world. The characters interact in the world, in whatever way they choose... good or bad... but they world does not revolve around them. I've seen a lot of games where the characters acted with the assumption that there would be no consequences for their actions. Everything was tailored for their success and they got upset at the GM for making it "too tough" when things went again them.


4. My Huge DM rule is not "preposterous."

How you equate that with letting the players run all over your game is beyond me. The two have no connection. But anything for an argument eh?
By stating that you will not change a decision, and posting that your players would not come back, is giving the power into their hands. You are letting them dictate the way your world is run because you think the players will quit if they are not placated.


The DM is creating a Fantasy World but that world must have some consisteny which the players can rely on - like our own world's natural laws.

I'm quoting directly from Gary Gygax here (who you obvious think has preposterous ideas about DMing) that if we in the real world woke up one morning to find the sky green it would pretty well screw with our foundation .. in fact they have places for people that experience these things called mental institutions.
A father is not always correct... but anyways...


I personally never made an earth ellie army as it just seemed like an obvious future nerf but for those who did they are being penalized by this sudden rules change.
People keep tossing out penalized. How? They are no longer the same as they were. Complain if you want but whine properly. There is no penalty to having them, however there is no longer the same benefit to having them... semantic difference but important.

A penalty implies some sort of negative effect for having them. Last I checked those accounts were not flagged, they have the same equipment slots, and didnt actually lose anything for possessing said objects. What you are saying is that they no longer operate in the same manner as before thus would be penalized for using the exact same tactics in the exact same situation. That I agree THAT is a penalty, but that was not the impression that you were complaining about having to some up with new ideas.

Besides by having created those items it gave you abilities far beyond what you were capable of doing without them. Thus you were using a benefit, that didnt exist before, to acquire more objects to aid you.

Everything has an cost. In this case the grind of the creation of the ele items is the cost. You paid the cost, received your goods, used your goods, and benefitted from them. Now you feel the cost of them is too high for what you received during the time they operated as expected. That may be true but since you speak of penalties and not cost it seems more of a whine than a valid complaint.

MrWizard
02-04-2010, 06:01 PM
yea, but really, did you think it was WAI when a quest would have someone summoning an entire army of 30 or 40 elementals. Just one person?

It was a good run and like all DDO goods things, it must come to an end.

like charms, aoe, good scrolls, crit vorpals, batmans, human versatility, and so many more things we had or did.

I feel for ya spending all that time during the off year. I just left instead.
I assume you built all other greensteel stuff you needed and these were just extra things you did not need.

I think it will still work a bit though, I would hold on to them.

Fourfingers
02-04-2010, 07:32 PM
Here's my take.

The change regarding being able to summon multiples of elementals is clearly needed.

People crafted these items knowing how they currently behave, thus a single character having multiple items. Let's put a spin on this. What if they changed the way lightning2's worked saying they were overpowered. Did you craft them knowing you would have that 1-2% chance of a lightning strike? What if they later said, oh, wow, sorry, that was supposed to be 60 not 600, so we're going to retroactively change all of them. Would you have crafted as many as you have on so many toons? The point being, the items were made knowing the current behavior and that has never been announced as a 'bug' (to my knowledge).

So either Turbine needs to be more responsive about posting "known issues" thus "upcoming nerfs" so people can craft at their own risk, or there needs to be a way to minimize the damage done. Simply changing the behavior does neither.

smutpuppy
02-06-2010, 12:39 PM
In the beginning i had 4 True res weapons, i made them specifically because they could. NERF!

In The middle i had 8 Elemental Summoning weapons, i made them specifically because they could. NERF!

In the end.. is where we keep taking it from NERFS!

I sit at my desk trying to gather the words to appropriatley describe my frustration at this latest NERF!

Alas my command over the english language is not sufficently powerful to do this.

I simply cant be bothered going into the calculations to see how many items Pies twigs scales stones etc etc etc that are now rendered useless and wasted, needless to say it is significant.

My command of the english language is sufficent enough however to say this..

FU I QUIT

Talcyndl
02-06-2010, 01:39 PM
In the beginning i had 4 True res weapons, i made them specifically because they could. NERF!

In The middle i had 8 Elemental Summoning weapons, i made them specifically because they could. NERF!

In the end.. is where we keep taking it from NERFS!

I sit at my desk trying to gather the words to appropriatley describe my frustration at this latest NERF!

Alas my command over the english language is not sufficently powerful to do this.

I simply cant be bothered going into the calculations to see how many items Pies twigs scales stones etc etc etc that are now rendered useless and wasted, needless to say it is significant.

My command of the english language is sufficent enough however to say this..

FU I QUIT


And thus, presented succinctly and powerfully, a testament to the inherent risk arising from some powergaming (or whatever description you want to use) approaches to MMOs. The Developers of any MMO will change things...they will "nerf." If you push a certain part of "their" game to (in their view) a breaking/severely unbalancing point, they will change the system to minimize/eliminate that "broken" piece of the game.

Sorry about your loss. Hope you find another MMO you can enjoy - at least for a time. :)

smutpuppy
02-07-2010, 01:27 AM
Talcyndl I find it funny why you make assumptions about someone you do not know, throw lables around as you please but you know what "Assume" means dont you mate.

Do you think that I made ele summon weapons to powergame or to exploit? (make it unbalanced in your terms) Or do you think it may be because its fun? I mean this is what we are here for arent we? ele armies were fun and yes they had uses, but to powergame.. lol no, you have obviously never run an army around. They are slow to summon and move like snails, lousy DPS and they only last for 8 minutes. by the time i got 16 up only 5 minutes remained to "Powergame" and "Exploit" FOAD. From a personal perspective they had limited use apart from ***** and giggles, they were useful for crowd control, useful for earthgrab and very useful against rusty's (my one and only Character is an intimitank). Running them in a group is useless as they cant keep up with the flow of the quest, running them solo is helpful but by no means over powering or unbalanced. You would get far more DPS and use simply by putting an LFM up for a firewaller or Blade barrier caster.

As for them being "Broken" how long have they been broken for? since the release of the shroud some 18 months ago? and if they are broken why let us all make useless items since the release of the shroud? why no heads up? why just "here you go take it or leave it" please let us know if theres anything else that should be nerfed so that we dont waste our time incase we "Power game" or make things "unbalanced"

Actually whilst we are on this point my one and only char has nearly 100 ac and rarely gets hit.. nerf him along with any char that cant be hit by any same lvl mob on a roll of 20. Cant have an unbalanced game can we? we cant have people using the rules to there advantage can we?


If it unbalances the game dont put it in, if it does get in dont take 18 months to fix it, and when you do fix it take it on the chin and be fair about it, rather than bend us over a table, pull down our pants and... well you know the rest..

Rice
02-07-2010, 01:44 AM
This is an MMO, stuff like this happen ALL the time. Overpowered thing gets nerfed after being overpowered for a very long time. It just means they can further balance OTHER things that are out of whack too.

suitepotato
02-07-2010, 03:22 AM
Competent designers have a roadmap with good detail and depth in advance that doesn't require these leaden nerfs, which are like tweaking a fly with a shotgun.

I'm pretty sure that at least basic calculus and statistics was taught to a few of them in college and/or high school and there's no way that the concept of "if present trends continue" could possibly miss anyone over the age of ten. Play a con game on a ten year old with money where they end up making less and less for the same work and they pretty quickly catch on. The devs didn't bother doing some basic graphs on the back of a napkin at Legal Sea Foods and see anything coming.

"Hmmm... if stats increase with this regularity like this, and monsters like this... hmmm... at the far end of things, we have players who can drop kick gods fighting demons more powerful than Galactus and yet still they can't knock down a simple rotten wooden door in a dungeon..."

So a big no to this being understanding. I save my understanding for the truly intellectual disadvantaged, not people who have no real excuse for their constant stream of massive steaming fail.

fuzzy1guy
02-07-2010, 03:35 AM
Just like in any MMO that is actively being worked on.. spending massive resources for a specific thing is a gamble you choose to take.

With the way the elemental armys were abused. Can you really say you are suprised they got nerfed? Really?


You gambled. You lost. Shame about the resources spent. But thems the breaks.

Nott
02-07-2010, 04:32 AM
Smutpuppy, your first post in this thread was good. Your 2nd one -- not so much.
If it unbalances the game dont put it in, if it does get in dont take 18 months to fix it, and when you do fix it take it on the chin and be fair about it, How is it that they're not being fair about it? I agree that deconstruction should exist, but it doesn't, but that's a totally different subject.

Your summon element items weren't taken away, they were changed. Now, instead of summoning everything all at once your only option is to summon over time.

Did you really, even for a moment, think it was intended that you can summon multiple pets at once? I don't think you did, but in case I'm wrong about this... consider casters. They can summon pets from up to 9 different spells (all of which can be prepared if they so choose), scrolls (most of which are store purchasable), and a small collection of items. All that summoning ability, and they can't manage to get two pets at a time. (Sorcerers used to be able to cast two at a time due to 50% cooldown timers, but that was a bug which I believe has been fixed.)

Sorry your fun was removed, and I'm sorry you're stuck with items you seem to no longer want. Turbine should do something with regards to deconstruction, but your sense of entitlement, however, is completely wrong.

Smelt92
02-07-2010, 07:58 AM
Hmmm....I guess this isn't going to be popular but....

I'm so happy about this change! It's fantastic! Now we just need them to make them damn frogs smaller and I'll be able to see where i'm going and what I'm trying to hit in high level quests again!

I do know that those of you must be feeling pretty annoyed right now and I feel for you I really do...but come on! You really didn't see this nerf coming? You seriously didn't think it was a bug or exploit in any way, despite the "you can only have one summoned creature at a time" in the summon monster spell description? But anyway I do know how you feel, having had my 3 pos/pos/pos items/weapons down graded from true res to raise dead.

Talcyndl
02-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Talcyndl I find it funny why you make assumptions about someone you do not know, throw lables around as you please but you know what "Assume" means dont you mate.

Do you think that I made ele summon weapons to powergame or to exploit? (make it unbalanced in your terms) Or do you think it may be because its fun? I mean this is what we are here for arent we? ele armies were fun and yes they had uses, but to powergame.. lol no, you have obviously never run an army around. They are slow to summon and move like snails, lousy DPS and they only last for 8 minutes. by the time i got 16 up only 5 minutes remained to "Powergame" and "Exploit" FOAD. From a personal perspective they had limited use apart from ***** and giggles, they were useful for crowd control, useful for earthgrab and very useful against rusty's (my one and only Character is an intimitank). Running them in a group is useless as they cant keep up with the flow of the quest, running them solo is helpful but by no means over powering or unbalanced. You would get far more DPS and use simply by putting an LFM up for a firewaller or Blade barrier caster.

As for them being "Broken" how long have they been broken for? since the release of the shroud some 18 months ago? and if they are broken why let us all make useless items since the release of the shroud? why no heads up? why just "here you go take it or leave it" please let us know if theres anything else that should be nerfed so that we dont waste our time incase we "Power game" or make things "unbalanced"

Actually whilst we are on this point my one and only char has nearly 100 ac and rarely gets hit.. nerf him along with any char that cant be hit by any same lvl mob on a roll of 20. Cant have an unbalanced game can we? we cant have people using the rules to there advantage can we?


If it unbalances the game dont put it in, if it does get in dont take 18 months to fix it, and when you do fix it take it on the chin and be fair about it, rather than bend us over a table, pull down our pants and... well you know the rest..

Your ire is misdirected mate. I neither made the change, nor did I push for it. I was simply making an observation about the reality of MMO's. You can rail against that reality, but until you recognize that such "nerfs" will consistently happen in almost any MMO (well, maybe Hello Kitty doesn't nerf) you will continue to suffer the same anger and disappointment.

:shrug:

Lorien_the_First_One
02-07-2010, 09:20 AM
I wish my GS Transmuters were still transmuteres.
I wish my GS True Rez clickies still were True Rez

/shrugs

Most of all it would be nice if they introduced a way to deconstruct GS so that we can undo mistakes and turbine induced changes.

Grond
02-07-2010, 10:21 AM
And thus, presented succinctly and powerfully, a testament to the inherent risk arising from some powergaming (or whatever description you want to use) approaches to MMOs. The Developers of any MMO will change things...they will "nerf." If you push a certain part of "their" game to (in their view) a breaking/severely unbalancing point, they will change the system to minimize/eliminate that "broken" piece of the game.

Sorry about your loss. Hope you find another MMO you can enjoy - at least for a time. :)

And it's not just MMOs... it's any game. I'm sure that the defensive backs in the NFL felt nerfed when the pass interference rules came into being... or the D-lines this year with the 'Brady rule.'