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ImaginaryLogic
02-03-2010, 08:47 PM
I'm thinking of splashing a level of wizard onto a lvl1 fighter. Can someone explain the mechanics related to casters (I'm afraid to say this but.... caster level? eeek!), the feats/enhancements I'll want, and whether this is a dumb idea?

gavagai
02-03-2010, 09:05 PM
It all depends on your char's stats, race, desires, and wealth. Getting Fighter + Wizard to work if you aren't a Warforged can be ALOT of work.

For a new player, I would say play your fighter, and roll a second character that is a wizard. Test them out. Each requires a different playstyle and, unless you have everything already planned out, each level in one class will detract from the potential from the other.

As a general rule of thumb: A fighter19/Wiz 1 will always cast spells like a level 1 wizard, but will have trouble fighting as well as a level 20 fighter (which gets a +10% speed boost). A Wiz 19/Fighter1 will only be marginally better at combat than a level 20 wizard, and will have weaker spells. A casual multiclass will 99.9% of the time lead to a weakening of your primary class's potential. :(

If you decide you want to plan a good multiclass, look at some builds by Phidius, Impaqt and Aspenor. They are well thought out and go into the upsides (self-sufficiency; fun) and downsides (situational reliance on equipment and Divine Power clickies; exclusion by people who think the character is gimp) of the builds.

Phidius's "Combat Focused Battlecaster"
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2568542&postcount=1

Asp's "Arcane Knight"
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182069

Impaqt's Melee Wizard
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=217342

Get your character planner here and let your imagination go hog wild: http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/

ImaginaryLogic
02-03-2010, 09:39 PM
My desires: fun, wealth
the race is elf, the stats:
STR:14
DEX:20
CON:8
WIS:10
INT:10
CHA:8
They may be messed up.
I think that my casting will be focused on self-buffing for combat; thus the wiz/fighter levels are not separate but symbiotic (The fighter protects the wiz, the wiz buffs the fighter).
I didn't say this, but I will use/rely on looted wands/scrolls to get much of my spell power. This means my char will go heavier on the fighter levels than the wiz.

Stealthdog
02-03-2010, 09:47 PM
My desires: fun, wealth
the race is elf, the stats:
STR:14
DEX:20
CON:8
WIS:10
INT:10
CHA:8
They may be messed up.
I think that my casting will be focused on self-buffing for combat; thus the wiz/fighter levels are not separate but symbiotic (The fighter protects the wiz, the wiz buffs the fighter).
I didn't say this, but I will use/rely on looted wands/scrolls to get much of my spell power. This means my char will go heavier on the fighter levels than the wiz.

Youch......8 Con is not very popular. Why the 20 dex? Elves get bonuses to longswords. 1 level of wizard won't help with self-buffing. You really don't need a level of wizard for self-buffing - there are tons of clickies available so you won't need arcane wands/scrolls.

I would probably go:
STR: 16
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Of course, I wouldn't do a wizard/fighter mix unless it was warforged....

Noctus
02-03-2010, 11:23 PM
Youch......8 Con is not very popular. Why the 20 dex? Elves get bonuses to longswords. 1 level of wizard won't help with self-buffing. You really don't need a level of wizard for self-buffing - there are tons of clickies available so you won't need arcane wands/scrolls.

I would probably go:
STR: 16
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Of course, I wouldn't do a wizard/fighter mix unless it was warforged....



Heed Stealthdogs adive.

Your current stat distribution will haunt oyu and catch up to you to bite you in your behind at level 10, latest.

Better redo your charcter while he is basically brand new, instead of being forced to do it later, when they cause you big problems.

As a fighter you want at least a CON 14 pre-racial modifiers, and a 16 STR. With putting all your level ups there.

Noctus
02-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm thinking of splashing a level of wizard onto a lvl1 fighter. Can someone explain the mechanics related to casters (I'm afraid to say this but.... caster level? eeek!), the feats/enhancements I'll want, and whether this is a dumb idea?


Casters are best pure, due to how their casting power increases. Non-caster levels are dead levels for them. Also you need a very high casting stat (INT for Wizards) or your spells will be inable to really effect monsters.

Stay pure with your Fighter for now, and later roll up a Wizard. Oce you have a feeling for both classes, and know what is possible, and what not, yu can try to make a multiclass tailoredto your preferences.

ImaginaryLogic
02-04-2010, 06:08 PM
k. but i have two other questions:
1. Would a high dex not aid a multiclass greatly because it would increase their attack AND allow to have a higher AC with lower armor?

2. What determines your caster level? how, in other words, could i calculate it?

Impaqt
02-04-2010, 06:13 PM
k. but i have two other questions:
1. Would a high dex not aid a multiclass greatly because it would increase their attack AND allow to have a higher AC with lower armor?

no. It only increases attack if you take Weapon Finesse. FIghters are traditional a STR based class that gets Bonus's to there strength. you will also eventually learn that AC isnt all that exciting.




2. What determines your caster level? how, in other words, could i calculate it?

there is no Calculations....

If you are 19FIghter/1Wizard your Caster level is 1

If your 12 Fighter/8 Wizard your Caster level is 8

ImaginaryLogic
02-04-2010, 09:00 PM
no. It only increases attack if you take Weapon Finesse. FIghters are traditional a STR based class that gets Bonus's to there strength. you will also eventually learn that AC isnt all that exciting.



there is no Calculations....

If you are 19FIghter/1Wizard your Caster level is 1

If your 12 Fighter/8 Wizard your Caster level is 8

right. but what i meant about the ac is that wizards can't wear armor. since armor would be important to partial fighter, and wearing heavy armor would be quite difficult, i thought that maybe a high dex would help there. taking weapon finesse would also add that bonus to attacks, perhaps avoiding the need for strength. so i could substitute dex for str and get a better ac from it. that was just what i thought, but i see that perhaps i will need str after all.

oh, and can someone tell me how to multiclass in the chargen?

Zereth501
02-04-2010, 09:12 PM
The dex would improve your AC, but monsters will hit you 95% of the time anyway. You would have 35 AC instead of 30 at a point where monsters can't miss anything under 50.
To multiclass in the chargen, click on the level you want to modify, then click on class and pick a new one. It looks like the initial class selection screen but it will only change your class for the level you selected.

Angelus_dead
02-04-2010, 09:17 PM
whether this is a dumb idea?
Yes, it is a bad idea.

It is a mistake to take any levels of a primary caster unless you plan for most of your levels to be in that class. This applies to Wizard, Srocerer, Cleric, Favored Soul, and Druid. Caster classes do not provide meaningful features from a low-level splash.

Talon_Moonshadow
02-04-2010, 09:56 PM
My desires: fun, wealth
the race is elf, the stats:
STR:14
DEX:20
CON:8
WIS:10
INT:10
CHA:8
They may be messed up.
I think that my casting will be focused on self-buffing for combat; thus the wiz/fighter levels are not separate but symbiotic (The fighter protects the wiz, the wiz buffs the fighter).
I didn't say this, but I will use/rely on looted wands/scrolls to get much of my spell power. This means my char will go heavier on the fighter levels than the wiz.

You would in effect be a lvl 1 Wizard for all casting purposes.

Meaning you could cast thre lvl 1 Wizard spells at the level 1 casting level for all things related to that spell. Like damage and Spell Penetreation of spell pnetration of spell resistance. (which is very common for monster so have at high lvls)

The save DC of you spells is based on the lvl of the spll and your Int modifyer.

Which given the stats above would be a save DC of 11 for your three spells.

So at high levls monsters would save against your spells 95% of the time, and that is only if they do not have spell resistance. I believe you would have zero chance of penetrating high lvl monster's SR if they have it.

Also the damage from your damage spells would be next to useless at high lvls.

but, you could use you rspells for buffs. Which have no save or spel pen to worry about. The only thing is they would be very short. 1 or 2 min buffs only.

Which I do not think a ftr would gain much from them.


you would also be able to use wands and some low level scrolls.

Offensive wands do not work well at high lvls, but buffing wands are good.
Stoneskin wands for example.

Your build had one more problem.
You need an Int of 11 to be able to cast lvl 1 spells. You can use an Int item to do so though.

Anyway, what do you expect to gain by one level of Wizard?

if you expect to gain something that will actually work for you, ok.
But I suspect you do not understand what you will gain and how multi-classed casters work.

So probably it's a bad idea.

Hold off....educate your self more about how casting works in this game.

Then think about it carefully and decide if it is something you really want to do.

Myrddinman
02-04-2010, 10:44 PM
I'd have to agree with everything that has been said. Multiclassing is generally not very forgiving, and should only be attempted with a specific plan in place; one that has been well thought-out. These builds also tend to rely heavy on gear and other factors such as 32-point builds and tomes, which usually help even out some of the shortcomings of limited levels in the 2/3 classes that are being multiclassing.

I would also recommend going pure at first (Fighter typically being the easiest and most forgiving class to learn) and experience a little more of the game and learn what style of play suits you. the most. However, if you're really gung-ho about trying it, go for it. Much of the advice you'll receive is coming from folks that have been exactly where you are now and only want you to get the most out of your build, because that's what you've asked for.

And all of this is coming from someone who loves to multiclass :D I do solo a lot (for right now) and need my builds to cover a wider range of roles.

I will also say this, if you really want to go Fighter/Wizard and your aim with casting is buffs (which I think it should be with this type of build), think about going Warforged:


Self-healing Wizard Repair Spells for Warforged if there's not another Arcane in the group
Immunities to numerous spell effects (Paralysis, Disease, Poison) that can really cripple a character
Racial Toughness and Constitution enhancements (which along with Fighter Toughness will help your HPs...oh yeah...do start with at least 14 CON)
Arcane Spell Failure enhancements (which you'll need so that you can cast wearing armor) with little to no failure

Just to name a few...

And at perhaps 7 levels of Wizard:


This will give you access to 2 Metamagic feats (probably Extend and Empower/Maximize)
Shield spell in case you go Two Weapon Fighting, Repair Critical, Haste, Blur, Displacement, Resist Energy and Stoneskin
Okay Spell Point pool
+2 Intellegence Enhancement

As you can see, it's a fairly heavy trade-off. Good luck :)

ImaginaryLogic
02-05-2010, 07:09 AM
Okay i think i'll level a few chars to endgame before trying it then.