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LRex
02-03-2010, 06:24 AM
So, being the healer of the party isnt really fun for me. Would like someone to critique this build focused 1st on offensive songs, then buff song, haggle and umd. Looking more for low-mid levels efficiency than end game since I never been at lvl 20 and would like to get there :)
Thx a lot for any input.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Bard Drow
Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 855
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 15
Will: 22

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 20 30

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 20
Bluff 7 33
Concentration 1 24
Diplomacy 7 17
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 9 39
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 5 10
Jump 0 10
Listen -1 3
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 9 40
Repair 1 1
Search 1 3
Spot 0 5
Swim 0 0
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 9 36

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Charm Person
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Bard Haggle I
Enhancement: Bard Perform II


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
Spell (2): Soundburst
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blindness
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Spell (5): Shadow Walk
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Haggle
Spell (3): See Invisibility
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Haggle II


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Bard Haggle III

tihocan
02-03-2010, 08:21 AM
If you're going to burn a feat on repeater (which is ok, it can be fun), start with Dex 16 and take down Int to 10. It's not like you need Bluff.
Your focus should be on offensive casting rather than offensive songs. Offensive songs are very easy to land, and overall are less useful than your offensive spells.

You can easily drop SF: Perform, SF: UMD, FoP and SF: Haggle. You'll want at least Heighten and Spell Penetration (the latter at L15 or L18), maybe Greater Spell Pen too if you enjoy the offensive casting. You may take advantage of Empower Healing or Maximize, and possibly Weapon finesse (if willing to swing in melee sometimes), Rapid reload/Improved Crit (if willing to improve your repeater side).

Kralgnax
02-03-2010, 08:32 AM
Caveat: My highest level bard is 7, and currently parked in Ataraxia on hagglebot duty.

I'd go with Tihocan's advice, plus:

I'd take Soundburst before Blur, as it's a really useful spell, and things don't hit that hard when you're at low levels. I wouldn't take Merfolk's blessing at all.

You also might want to consider more CON. My guild leader is a Virtuoso, and he's quite squishy.

tihocan
02-03-2010, 08:40 AM
You also might want to consider more CON. My guild leader is a Virtuoso, and he's quite squishy.
I was thinking about that too but I don't think spending 4 build points for just +2 Con is worth it. This kind of build is meant to stay away from melee anyways, and Toughness should be enough to stay alive.

LRex
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Your focus should be on offensive casting rather than offensive songs. Offensive songs are very easy to land, and overall are less useful than your offensive spells.
First of all thanks for the reply. I really dislike offensive spells in ddo, they never land when it matters! In elite diffculty with SF: Enchantment I have to cast 3 times to land an enchantment spell. So since they are unreliable even when the DC is pumped up I'm not concerned with them at all. OTOH, as you said, songs you can rely upon to stop the mobs so they can be killed 1 by 1. Those spells are there more as fillers for when its only me and a hireling soloing.


You can easily drop SF: Perform, SF: UMD, FoP and SF: Haggle. You'll want at least Heighten and Spell Penetration (the latter at L15 or L18), maybe Greater Spell Pen too if you enjoy the offensive casting. You may take advantage of Empower Healing or Maximize, and possibly Weapon finesse (if willing to swing in melee sometimes), Rapid reload/Improved Crit (if willing to improve your repeater side).

SF: Perform is a Virtuoso requirement. I really just want to buff the group the best I can so they do the damage. DPS chars really enjoy being all buffed up and diving in head first into combat so I'll leave that to them. Not having the spells nor the sp (buffing usually takes half the sp) for real healing I'll leave that to clerics, bard's being a last resort for dire situations. I could take healing scrolls/wands since UMD is high enough to count on that.

Thx again. Any word on the order of enhancements taken or comments on spell selection? Should I take displacement before good hope or freedom before otto's sphere? Not really sure on the usefulness of freedom of movement, perhaps break enchantment should come 1st?

LRex
02-03-2010, 09:08 AM
I was thinking about that too but I don't think spending 4 build points for just +2 Con is worth it. This kind of build is meant to stay away from melee anyways, and Toughness should be enough to stay alive.

My thoughts exactly :)

tihocan
02-03-2010, 11:46 AM
SF: Perform is a Virtuoso requirement.
Hmm, looks like you have the choice between SF: Perform, Negotiator or Extra Song IV. I'd suggest Negotiator (at least it'll give you some extra haggle), then at high level, if you have enough APs, respec it out for a useful feat and grab Extra Song IV instead.
SF: Perform is rather useless because a high Cha bard has no problem landing songs.

If you don't bother with offensive spells then I'm afraid you're going to be somewhat limited at higher levels. Btw you're right I forgot Spell focus in the list of useful feats to take :) A pure bard with high Cha like this should be able to get a pretty decent DC on enchantment spells.

About spells/enhancements order: not a big deal IMHO since they are easily respecced. I would myself take good hope before displacement, and otto's before freedom. Break enchantment is only situational and can wait.

Jasimine
02-04-2010, 01:46 AM
SF: Perform is a Virtuoso requirement. I really just want to buff the group the best I can so they do the damage. DPS chars really enjoy being all buffed up and diving in head first into combat so I'll leave that to them. Not having the spells nor the sp (buffing usually takes half the sp) for real healing I'll leave that to clerics, bard's being a last resort for dire situations. I could take healing scrolls/wands since UMD is high enough to count on that.

The thing is, if you really want to buff your party as best as possible and let them do the killing then you don't want virtuoso. War-Chanter does more for buffing, and so does the Spell Singer.

Now, if you want to stay back and range, cast, buff, and other wise assist your party with out stepping into melee I would suggest going Spell Singer and cranking your charisma as high as you can, take your spell focus/greater spell focus feats for enchantment, get an enchantment focus item as soon as you can don it, and work as a crowd control/buffer/emergancy healer. Spell Pen feats are also a must as well as hieghten spell to increase the DC of your spells at higher levels.

dunklezhan
02-04-2010, 07:02 AM
The thing is, if you really want to buff your party as best as possible and let them do the killing then you don't want virtuoso. War-Chanter does more for buffing, and so does the Spell Singer.

Now, if you want to stay back and range, cast, buff, and other wise assist your party with out stepping into melee I would suggest going Spell Singer and cranking your charisma as high as you can, take your spell focus/greater spell focus feats for enchantment, get an enchantment focus item as soon as you can don it, and work as a crowd control/buffer/emergancy healer. Spell Pen feats are also a must as well as hieghten spell to increase the DC of your spells at higher levels.

This may seem like a facetious question - its not supposed to be - but what IS a virtuoso for? The extra benefits on fascinate and the extra songs seem like a good trade off to me and its not like you can't make the basic Inspire Courage song really very effective just with the other enhancements. I know its not as good as the Warchanter boosted buff, but its still very good. Is the added bonus to fascinate (where once its broken or resisted the mobs are still adversely affected) not a good trade off? I'm finding its very useful in our static group with me as a virtuoso. Warchanter was my next choice, but for various reasons I went with Virtuoso as more in keeping with what I was aiming for.

There is a very clear view that virtuoso isn't worth it but I really haven't ever seen good reasons why its seen as such a terrible choice - I've only seen reasons why Warchanter or Spellsinger themselves are good. Be grateful for a better understanding if anyone would care to break it down for me (or link me to an existing thread on the subject as I've been unable to find one though I admit I haven't looked very hard.).

tihocan
02-04-2010, 08:26 AM
This may seem like a facetious question - its not supposed to be - but what IS a virtuoso for? The extra benefits on fascinate and the extra songs seem like a good trade off to me and its not like you can't make the basic Inspire Courage song really very effective just with the other enhancements. I know its not as good as the Warchanter boosted buff, but its still very good. Is the added bonus to fascinate (where once its broken or resisted the mobs are still adversely affected) not a good trade off? I'm finding its very useful in our static group with me as a virtuoso. Warchanter was my next choice, but for various reasons I went with Virtuoso as more in keeping with what I was aiming for.

There is a very clear view that virtuoso isn't worth it but I really haven't ever seen good reasons why its seen as such a terrible choice - I've only seen reasons why Warchanter or Spellsinger themselves are good. Be grateful for a better understanding if anyone would care to break it down for me (or link me to an existing thread on the subject as I've been unable to find one though I admit I haven't looked very hard.).
Mostly because fascinating monsters is pointless, doesn't work, or doesn't help much in many high level quests. Btw I wonder if you can even fascinate in epic (I have no idea about that). On another hand, the warchanter and spellsinger party buffs are always useful.

LRex
02-04-2010, 08:41 AM
[...]Is the added bonus to fascinate (where once its broken or resisted the mobs are still adversely affected) not a good trade off? I'm finding its very useful in our static group with me as a virtuoso. [...]
I've grouped with a virtuoso once and many times with other types and by far I prefer to group with a virtuoso than any other bard. When things get messed up thats the guy who saves everyone's ... Not to mention that if he knows the party is not much efficient he just ran ahead and fascinated all mobs, a tough quest became a walk in the park.


Hmm, looks like you have the choice between SF: Perform, Negotiator or Extra Song IV. I'd suggest Negotiator (at least it'll give you some extra haggle), then at high level, if you have enough APs, respec it out for a useful feat and grab Extra Song IV instead.
SF: Perform is rather useless because a high Cha bard has no problem landing songs.
Yes... at high levels. My concern is lower-mid levels since I never got past lvl 8 and I want to get to high levels so I'm willing to do whats good for that range instead. At low lvls perform is low so I'll keep SF: Perform for the boost, but the idea of changing it later is very good, ty.


Break enchantment is only situational and can wait.
THX! Thats exactly what I need to know :)

dunklezhan
02-04-2010, 09:34 AM
Mostly because fascinating monsters is pointless, doesn't work, or doesn't help much in many high level quests. <snip>

see now that's the very opposite of what I was advised in a thread a while back when i asked about the value of the perform skill. I was told that fascinate is one of the most powerful charms in the game provided perform is kept maxed, and that it worked on practically everything (except bosses, since nothing works on them) all the way up to L20 (don't know about epic, sorry). Certainly I've found it is currently highly successful, but I appreciate I'm only at L8.

The problem I have had with fascinate is people waiting long enough to let me use it. Its often faster to go kill everything than wait for the fascinate to go off - but use of fascinate certainly only requires someone to heal the bard a little bit while they hoover up the mobs, rather than having to watch everyone who may have ended up in Melee in the rush forwards.

However, that does seem to be a more general issue - tactics really don't get used outside of ranged as far as i can tell. Everyone just wants to charge in and dish out damage, not take things a little slower and surer. *shrugs* Playstyles differ. That's life.

Still, 'fascinating monsters is pointless' is directly contrary to several threads I have read, and conversations I've had.

LRex, my apologies for slightly hijacking your thread with this particular subtopic, but I hope it is relevant!

Also, while I don't want to argue with someone who ostensibly is supporting my position - if you too have only got to L8 and joined in December I'm not honestly sure how much experience you may have in order to justify your comments regarding virtuosoes (virtuosi? virtuousees?). It may well be that we're both completely right in our opinions but I'd love to hear from a few more experienced types before making up my mind.

LRex
02-04-2010, 09:51 AM
However, that does seem to be a more general issue - tactics really don't get used outside of ranged as far as i can tell. Everyone just wants to charge in and dish out damage, not take things a little slower and surer. *shrugs* Playstyles differ. That's life.
Thats pretty common. Funny how some quests I can solo but in the wrong group everyone dies. When I see ppl rushing in *and* getting the group into trouble too often I ask the person to recall and leave or I do that. If they can rush in and get the job done all the better.


LRex, my apologies for slightly hijacking your thread with this particular subtopic, but I hope it is relevant!

Also, while I don't want to argue with someone who ostensibly is supporting my position - if you too have only got to L8 and joined in December I'm not honestly sure how much experience you may have in order to justify your comments regarding virtuosoes (virtuosi? virtuousees?). It may well be that we're both completely right in our opinions but I'd love to hear from a few more experienced types before making up my mind.
No problem, I'm also interested. It may well be that that virtuoso I grouped with was an exceptionally skilled player, and these types usually can make any class look like the best there is.

tihocan
02-04-2010, 11:58 AM
The problem I have had with fascinate is people waiting long enough to let me use it. Its often faster to go kill everything than wait for the fascinate to go off
Well, that's precisely what I meant by "pointless". With players who know what they are doing, there's often no need to fascinate anything, because it takes some time and the party can easily handle the mob in the first place. There is also the quite common situation of a high DPS two-handed build who will break the fascinated mob with glancing blows, and in the level range where AoE spells (like firewall / cone of cold) are king, those will obviously break fascinate as well.
At high level we fight many teleporting monsters who, unfortunately, still teleport while fascinated (hopefully this is a bug that will be fixed, but right now it's annoying because they teleport right on you and get in the way, so it's really hard not to break them).
Finally, in many high level quests where CCing monsters would be handy, they turn out to be immune to fascinate (red names, or just blanket immunity in some quests).

Don't get me wrong, fascinate can be awesome. But I very rarely see it used at high levels. My bard has been using it on the way to the Hound raid (when I managed to stay ahead of the group), and sometimes when soloing/duoing. He's not a virtuoso, has low charisma, and can still fascinate with very high success rate in the rare situation where it's actually significantly helpful. That's why I don't see much point in trying to invest even more in this ability when you don't need it much, and it works fine when you need it :)

Jasimine
02-04-2010, 01:26 PM
The issue is that the Virtu's bonus's to fascinate really arn't all that. Really unless you are talking about using it against undead and constructs you can fascinate just as well with a low charisma warchanter that has max perform skill and a perform item equipped.

Also there is the matter of cost effectiveness. I.E. resources used vs. length of benifits gained. Since a Virtu's debuff on a monster who has broken Fascinate will go away immediatly upon the monster die'n you end up loosing the benifit rather quickly. However a warchanter's, or spellsinger's, buffs stay on through multiple encounters. This means were the Virtu is getting an exchange rate of 1 songe per encounter the other two are getting 1 song per 3 or 4, possibly more, encounters.

In the end with fascinate taking an extended time to active, during which all of your targets will likely end up dead, it's poor cost effectiveness in comperision to just up right buffing your allies, and it's situational at best use, building your character to be the best fascinater possible at the expense of other skills that you could have is not logical.

Please understand that when I first joined DDO and I saw the Virtuoso of the Sword I was very very excited and thought it would end up being amazing. Sadly it was not so. Hopefully the Virtuoso gets some love in the future.

dunklezhan
02-05-2010, 08:37 AM
The issue is that the Virtu's bonus's to fascinate really arn't all that. Really unless you are talking about using it against undead and constructs you can fascinate just as well with a low charisma warchanter that has max perform skill and a perform item equipped.

Fair enough - though I feel obliged to point out that 'aren't all that' is pretty subjective - I personally beleive that the warchanters bonuses to Inspire aren't all that either given that you can get pretty close with the right Inspire enhancements (I may be wrong in my beleif, but the points is that subjectively that's my position).


Also there is the matter of cost effectiveness. I.E. resources used vs. length of benifits gained. Since a Virtu's debuff on a monster who has broken Fascinate will go away immediatly upon the monster die'n you end up loosing the benifit rather quickly. However a warchanter's, or spellsinger's, buffs stay on through multiple encounters. This means were the Virtu is getting an exchange rate of 1 songe per encounter the other two are getting 1 song per 3 or 4, possibly more, encounters.

I would summarise this as "Fascinate is only useful situationally", which hopefully isn't too far off the mark. And I would agree completely. Maybe, say, an absolute max of 3 times per adventure?

Because, perhaps co-incidentally, virtuoso gives +3 songs...

And I feel it appropriate to point out that just because you're good at Fascinate as Virtuoso doesn't mean its the only song you should use. You do still have your other songs. You still have the two basic Inspire songs (though not the warchanters' specific Inspire song, obviously). And they have an extended duration from Virtuoso. These last through multiple encounters - actually more encounters per song.

So you can actually buff for *longer* as a Virtuoso, and you have more songs to do it with. Thereby freeing up songs to 'waste' on fascinate if you so choose.

Additionally, with the Virtuoso's fascinate, the benefits do go away when the mob dies. But they don't go away when the fascinate is broken, they're just reduced. But since the mobs are still affected, they are less effective at dealing damage, meaning the overall burden on healers etc is lessened enormously.


In the end with fascinate taking an extended time to active, during which all of your targets will likely end up dead, it's poor cost effectiveness in comperision to just up right buffing your allies, and it's situational at best use, building your character to be the best fascinater possible at the expense of other skills that you could have is not logical.

Yes. During the time you spent fascinating, your targets may have ended up dead, and possibly faster... but your allies will still end up hurt and needing healing, which is taking resources away from the healers who are generally also your 'buffers', or alternatively using up your hard earned, plat-paid for, healing clickies or potions.

If your aim is speed, then fascinate=bad. If your aim is cost effectiveness, the neutralizing prior to smiting = good. if it didnt, you wouldn't see the plethora of paralyzers and other neutralizing weapon types out there.

My conclusion (which may still be wrong, I know, but bear with me) - Virtuoso gives you more songs, so you can afford to fascinate and still buff allies. If a virtuoso's Fascinate is used correctly even where it doesn't completely neutralise mobs, it certainly makes them less effective. On top of that, although its a minor boost, being a virtuoso increases the likelihood that your Fascinate will work in the first place. Overall if used correctly it lowers the healing burden on everyone, and makes healing more effective as on the occasions healing is required the only person who should need healing is the Bard - making it less likely someone will accidentally die, if anyone gets hurt at all.

Now you could argue that with spellsinger that Spell Point effiency issue is resolved, because of the reduction in spell points for those affected by the spellsinger's speciality song. You could also argue that the extra +1 from the warchanter's song, or the warchanters special Inspire song will also get the fight done even quicker and reduce the load on the healers that way.

You'd probably be right on both counts. But if the mobs are fascinated... then there's no spell point usage except, as I say, perhaps on the Bard as he rounds up the mobs.

Now... having said all that....




At high level we fight many teleporting monsters who, unfortunately, still teleport while fascinated (hopefully this is a bug that will be fixed, but right now it's annoying because they teleport right on you and get in the way, so it's really hard not to break them). Finally, in many high level quests where CCing monsters would be handy, they turn out to be immune to fascinate (red names, or just blanket immunity in some quests).

OK, that seems a much more specific reason why its not such a good choice.

Although I must say if you're trying to use any kind of CC on a red name then you probably haven't been paying attention to how red-names work. Can't comment on what sort of blanket immunities may exist across 'normal' mobs in high level quests, because I haven't done any. For those situations it sound to me like you are correct that (apart from an increased number and duration of the basic songs) the Virtuoso doesn't bring anything really worth having to the table.



Don't get me wrong, fascinate can be awesome. But I very rarely see it used at high levels. My bard has been using it on the way to the Hound raid (when I managed to stay ahead of the group), and sometimes when soloing/duoing. He's not a virtuoso, has low charisma, and can still fascinate with very high success rate in the rare situation where it's actually significantly helpful. That's why I don't see much point in trying to invest even more in this ability when you don't need it much, and it works fine when you need it :)

Fair enough. So might it be more reasonable to say that Virtuouso at low to mid levels is actually a good choice, but don't feel you need to max out the skill as you may wish to consider a respec of the relevant enhancements and feats at the higher levels?

Presumably ideally you still want a high CHR for DC checks on your other spells though?

For me, based on what I'm hearing, the only bit of virtuoso which seems a little pointless (as no-one including me seems able to come up with a 'good' use of it) is the Suggestion song. You can get that as a spell as a bard so I pretty much fail to see the point - that IS an awful waste. You've got to fascinate then use suggestion - two songs, and twice as long. Seems OTT. Why not just let us use the suggestion song on its own?

Anyway. have I once again missed the point? I still am unconvinced (at least up to the mid levels anyway) that virtuoso is such a bad idea.

MarinMegara123
02-05-2010, 09:03 AM
I have a high level virtuoso and he's not useless. In bastion of power for example, i could fascinate/enthrall devils and tieflings easy. It's when the mobs swarm and utilizes different types of attack that I find employing my songs very useful. In bastion of power there are ranged tieflings, cleric tieflings and devils that flit in and out. Compound the fact that the melees and casters cannot possibly kill each mob immediately and at the same time destroy a portal... landing that enthrall/fascinate is very usefull indeed. :D

tihocan
02-05-2010, 09:15 AM
So might it be more reasonable to say that Virtuouso at low to mid levels is actually a good choice, but don't feel you need to max out the skill as you may wish to consider a respec of the relevant enhancements and feats at the higher levels?

Presumably ideally you still want a high CHR for DC checks on your other spells though?
It should be easy enough to respec from Virtuoso to Spellsinger if at some point you want to try the latter (just be aware of the potential high cost of feat exchange at high level, and the ability to respec one feat for free). So you can certainly play Virtuoso, and decide later whether you like it or not. You won't have the option to go Warchanter though (Str requirement for Power Attack).

In short, I'd say that Fascinate can be very helpful to help a party tackle a quest that would be too hard otherwise. So depending on your playstyle and who you play with, its usefulness will vary greatly.

Talon_Moonshadow
02-05-2010, 10:51 PM
If you would like to use Fascinate, reguardless of your parties wishes/cooperation, here is how you do it.


Zerge faster than they do!

Leave the current fight before the last monster is dead. Cast invis.
Run to next fight, and use fascinate.

you only have to be slightly ahead of the zerging barb to do this.

They will get to the room and everything will be standing around.

Then they can decide what to do about it.

While you run off to the next fight and repeat.

dunklezhan
02-06-2010, 05:11 AM
If you would like to use Fascinate, reguardless of your parties wishes/cooperation, here is how you do it.


Zerge faster than they do!

Leave the current fight before the last monster is dead. Cast invis.
Run to next fight, and use fascinate.

you only have to be slightly ahead of the zerging barb to do this.

They will get to the room and everything will be standing around.

Then they can decide what to do about it.

While you run off to the next fight and repeat.

Noted. I tried this in my static last night actually in 3BC (we were finishing off the slayer quest before we left the level range). I seemed to be swiming way faster than the rest of the group (well, the others are both plate wearers...), so I got to the one of the locations first. Casting our static group's SoP to the wind, I rounded up the mobs and got fascinate going, and when they got there I was fighting the one mob who had resisted and the rest were standing there watching. So that was nice. It was like 'oh! You're here! I wrapped up some bad guys for you. Merry Easter!'

A bit later however a bunch of pirates seemed totally unaffected - twice. Given that my base perform skill at the moment is 23, it seemed unlikely that all dozen of the CR4 mobs had successfully resisted, and the very next encounter worked as normal. The only difference seemed to be that I didn't have anyone targeted on the encounter where the fascinate failed (don't know why. autotarget normally takes care of that for me).

This seems a bit odd, but I will make sure to have something targeted next time, unless anyone has a better theory as to why the fascinate so utterly failed on the same bunch of mobs, twice in succession, with me stood in the middle of them all!