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View Full Version : Wiz/Rog Toolbox after lvl11..advice please



aradelothion
02-01-2010, 02:27 AM
A little back story: I really wanted to roll a Wizard with good survivability, solo-able, and the potential to use/cast just about anything, so I went with an x Wizard/2 Rogue multi to start. After a few lvl 4 rerolls (veteran status), I found that sacrificing a caster level means (for me, anyway) that the playstyle I was most used to wouldn't work - my crowd control spells wouldn't land reliably, my SP pool was lacking, and I didn't have enough skill points to max out Concentration, UMD and DD while still having meaningful hide/move silently. So I went the Master's Touch route, packing a Maelstrom that I fortunately didn't sell (and eventually farming other +1 to +3 Holy/Metalline/Flaming of Pure Goods, a Carnifex, Xuum, etc using my other characters). So far the guy has been a blast to play, and I've actually solo'd at-level content often on hard, some on elite, that I was never able to do before - it's not much of an achievement or a testament to my skills or anything, but more that the build made a lot of things rather easy. Right now, the build functions as a secondary/tertiary melee DPSer if there are dedicated DPS builds around, which is exactly how I want it to function, to eke out the most from what moderate SA damage there is available. It's also able to handle every trap so far with a mid 40's DD. And I'm particularly happy with the 65% on Raise Dead scrolls, which came in real handy when we were running Xorian on elite when the cleric died.

The thing is, I'm not sure how long that state of affairs will last, and I'm a bit at a loss as to where to go next. My first thought was to go 18Wiz/2Rogue. My original plan was always to be a caster first. However, now that I think about it, I'll always be -2 caster levels from this point on, so DC and SP wise the build be a subpar caster. If my level 17 human Wiz with spell and greater spell foci can still sometimes not land a Finger, I'm thinking this build will be having more trouble in that department. It'll also most likely be a subpar DPSer, as it stands.

Soooo, long story short, where do you guys think I should go with this? Should I stay the path I'm on, Lesser Reincarnate some levels (for ex. to change levelup stat point allocation), something. The most important thing for me is that I want this guy to be able to contribute (if not as a toolbox, then something else) at end game. If it's as trivial as changing playstyle to as drastic as +3 LR, I'd like to hear it.

- 12Wiz/6Ftr/2Rog
- 18Wiz/2Rog
- 16Wiz/2Ftr/2Rog
- Pure Wiz
- Something else

A bit fuzzy about the starting stats, feats and enhancements, as I can't play at the moment.



Attribute Starting Current
Str 14 19 (+5 item)
Dex 8 8 (12) (+4 item, situationally swapped with wis/cha)
Con 16 23 (2 WF enhancements, +5 item)
Int 18 29 (+2 levelups, +2 tome, +2 Wiz enhancements, +5 item)
Wis 6 6 (10) (+4 item, situationally swapped with dex/cha)
Cha 10 16 (+2 tome, +4 item, situationally swapped with dex/wis)


HP: 217 (GFL, Minos, Toughness, etc), SP: 752 (PoPX), Saves: 14/20/9 (unbuffed, I think -- just looking @ myddo, can't remember if I had active buffs when I logged out)

Skills
Full ranks in UMD, Disable Device and Search (and Concentration of course)

Feats
Extend
Maximize
Mental Toughness (will probably swap for Empower)
Toughness
Skill Focus: UMD

I'd like to go the 16/2/2 or 12/6/2 route, but I want to hear from others who've done it before me. Can this build, as it stands, do it? Thanks in advance for the input. Be gentle :D

Phidius
02-01-2010, 10:00 AM
If you want a caster, you really don't want to go less than 17 Wiz, as that's when you get your 9th level spells. 3 levels of non-wizard will cost you...

3 points of Spell Penetration. With the right equipment, this won't be a problem.
1 point of spell DC from losing the capstone (+2 Int).

That's it - you'll be casting almost as well as a pure wizard. There are some areas where your spells will have a hard time sticking, but then again pure wizards have the same problem there.

I like your stat allocation, and your ability to grab a great axe (I like 1 level of Fighter to avoid the Master's Touch, myself). Being that you are a WF, get the Docent of Defiance to help mitigate some of the damage you take.

I'd drop SF: UMD (the right gear will enable you to scroll Heal without a chance of failing), and make sure you pickup Heighten at some point. Both Spell Pen feats (and maxed enhancement) are recommended too.

Phidius
02-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Oh, and Quicken... you'll definitely want Quicken :D

aradelothion
02-01-2010, 10:38 AM
If you want a caster, you really don't want to go less than 17 Wiz, as that's when you get your 9th level spells. 3 levels of non-wizard will cost you...

3 points of Spell Penetration. With the right equipment, this won't be a problem.
1 point of spell DC from losing the capstone (+2 Int).

That's it - you'll be casting almost as well as a pure wizard. There are some areas where your spells will have a hard time sticking, but then again pure wizards have the same problem there.

I like your stat allocation, and your ability to grab a great axe (I like 1 level of Fighter to avoid the Master's Touch, myself). Being that you are a WF, get the Docent of Defiance to help mitigate some of the damage you take.

I'd drop SF: UMD (the right gear will enable you to scroll Heal without a chance of failing), and make sure you pickup Heighten at some point. Both Spell Pen feats (and maxed enhancement) are recommended too.


Oh, and Quicken... you'll definitely want Quicken :D

I was actually thinking of replacing SF:UMD with Heighten sometime between 11-15, and taking Quicken too (after being pummeled a lot and unable to heal... live and learn :D). Will probably also pick up the Spell Pen enhancements during that time, and try to fit in the feats, not sure if I have enough for all though.

Assuming 17 Wiz, when would you suggest taking the fighter level?

As for the DoD... price is out of my range ATM... which adventure pack/quest does it drop?

Thanks for the help! :)

Phidius
02-01-2010, 12:00 PM
You can get the DoD out of the Cursed Crypt, which is the third series in the Necropolis... not sure what the pack is called, though. The price for it is usually out of my spending budget too, but it's totally worth it.

I just posted my TR plan for Precious if you want to check it out. I believe I took the Fighter level at 9th to be able to put all 8 skill points into Intimidate. If you aren't trying to get max ranks in Intimidate, then it doesn't really matter when you take it.

JeffreyGator
02-02-2010, 02:20 PM
I have 2 WF wizard thiefs.

One is 14 W 3Rogue and will take the next in Rog. I liked the extra d6 SA and a few more sp.

The other is a rogue with ftr and wiz levels and is only 10 now. This toon may end up 10rog 6 wiz 4 ftr or something odd.

At level 10 the primary crowd control it uses is glitterdust and it works well enough that there are lots of Sneak Attacks and not too much damage while dual weilding bastard swords.