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View Full Version : Ok, so I'm thinking about making a Battle Mage



Pedsdmd
01-31-2010, 11:07 AM
I have read some of the forums and a 16sor/2pal/2rog came up

what about a twf wiz/fig/rogue?

or wiz/rang?

any other good combos that are out there?

Xyfiel
01-31-2010, 11:15 AM
I have read some of the forums and a 16sor/2pal/2rog came up

what about a twf wiz/fig/rogue?

or wiz/rang?

any other good combos that are out there?

Have you checked the Multiclass or Character Builds forums yet? Might have to go thru a few pages but there are builds there. All of the 3 you mentioned are doable.

Pedsdmd
01-31-2010, 12:31 PM
Have you checked the Multiclass or Character Builds forums yet? Might have to go thru a few pages but there are builds there. All of the 3 you mentioned are doable.


yeah I have been reading but it stinks that I cant post

Jakarr
01-31-2010, 12:37 PM
Do you have +2 Int/Str/Dex/Con/Wis Tomes, do you have top notch gear all the way up to 20? And I dont mean that +1 Frost Longsword. If the Answer is yes here are 2 links to Either a Sorc battlemage or Wiz battlemage, Also one of my Semi Battlemage build


Impaqt's Build, I'm playing this one Atm
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2721310&posted=1#post2721310

Phidiu's Build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=227607

Mine, Can be switched to be 12r/7w/1r, Able to Trapsmith
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226394

Gadget2775
01-31-2010, 12:50 PM
Found two more threads for you that have some good discussion/builds.

Fighter/Ranger/Wizard (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=179202)
Fighter/Wizard (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=132992)

Pedsdmd
01-31-2010, 01:10 PM
Do you have +2 Int/Str/Dex/Con/Wis Tomes, do you have top notch gear all the way up to 20? And I dont mean that +1 Frost Longsword. If the Answer is yes here are 2 links to Either a Sorc battlemage or Wiz battlemage, Also one of my Semi Battlemage build


Impaqt's Build, I'm playing this one Atm
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2721310&posted=1#post2721310

Phidiu's Build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=227607

Mine, Can be switched to be 12r/7w/1r, Able to Trapsmith
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226394

I am a total newbie and plan on reading the forums for a week before I start to play. I played NWN years ago on PW named Avlis but it seems like some new things were added that I need to learn:) Thanks for your help

Xyfiel
01-31-2010, 01:31 PM
I am a total newbie and plan on reading the forums for a week before I start to play. I played NWN years ago on PW named Avlis but it seems like some new things were added that I need to learn:) Thanks for your help

NWN is based of 3rd edition but had certain rule changes you won't find here.
DDO is based of 3rd edition but has certain rule changes you won't find in other Dnd games.
Be careful doing your research that you expect something to work one way and find out later it is different.

A battlemage is fun, just watch out that it really isn't a build that goes with new players. Post your server and character name when you make the build. Good chance someone here will help you out, these builds need good gear.

Pedsdmd
01-31-2010, 03:23 PM
NWN is based of 3rd edition but had certain rule changes you won't find here.
DDO is based of 3rd edition but has certain rule changes you won't find in other Dnd games.
Be careful doing your research that you expect something to work one way and find out later it is different.

A battlemage is fun, just watch out that it really isn't a build that goes with new players. Post your server and character name when you make the build. Good chance someone here will help you out, these builds need good gear.


yeah it is daunting, especially with all the abbrevations and new things. I'm they type of player that will be irked and annoyed if my build gets messed up

I am thinking about a dual weilding battle mage

I am thinking dex based because I assume that you cant cast in armor without that feat(cant remember the name). with only 20 lvls it may not be worth it to lose a caster lvl right?

Jakarr
01-31-2010, 06:01 PM
You will find armor class is worthless in this game, unlike PnP were having 40 is doing really good, Here with 40 end game its like yer not wearing anything. As a Arcane caster 99.9% of the time you dont even worry about ac with your builds.

Stoneskin(http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Stoneskin)

Displancement(http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Displacement)
Blur(http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Blur)

Toss down a Fog Type spell(http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Cloudkill)

And thats your AC and it works very well.

Highest dex you will ever really have is 17 if you do a TWF Battlemage, Granted you can toss on a +6 item get a little ac but like I said unless yer pushing 70 its not gonna help much.

On the Armor without a feat thing they dont have that Metamagic, Best you can do is as a Elf they have Enhancements(DDO thing) to reduce the Arcane Pen and Also armor like Mithral and Twilight Reduce the Pen, Thou why would you be a Battlemage and not be a Warforged(they can heal themself) is beyond me, Also WF get Enhancements to reduce Arcane spell failure. There is actually enough gear/enhancements to wear WF's Version of Full Plate and not get any Arcane Failure....but as I said before Spells are yer AC.

vettkinn
01-31-2010, 08:01 PM
Welcome to the game comrade Pedsdmd, I have a Sorc16/Pal2/Rog2 myself. Don't worry about all of these negative ideas that these vets pound on you, they are fond of doing that to newbies to mold them into their liking.

I don't know of another battlemage setup but I'll explain how I played my char anyway (for the present status, check my sig). I didn't have uber gear, just some plat to get some key equipment.

Pros:
- Nearly immune to most spells
- Has good AC (not elitist AC btw)
- Can melee if needed, to save SP
- Is self-sufficient
- Has lay on hands
- Great solo potential
- Doesn't disable traps, walks through them instead

Cons:
- Open lock didn't have much use on high level quests
- Takes time to get spells
- as a sorc, changing spells can be expensive
- Requires patience
- You will be shunned by other players with elitist thinking (they won't accept your party request)

Once you get 400 favor through questing, make a new Drow character with the following key stats:

DEX: 16
CHA: 18
WIS: 8
INT: 10

You decide which one to prioritize, either STR or CONS but that's your call. Start off as a pally to make levelling Korthos and the Harbor a breeze, and pick Sorc for level 3 (spend skill points on balance and concentration by the way). And charm person will be a great spell in the early levels (against kobolds, hobgoblins, humans, trogs, etc.).

I assume that you have some plat on your first char, key equipment for this would be:

- Some adamantine heavy armor (for level 1-3)
- A robe or padded armor of invulnerability (for level 4+, to get rid of arcane spell failure, get arcane fluidity if needed)
- Blackwidow bracers (from the waterworks)
- a mithral light shield (to get rid of arcane spell failure, more AC)
- A good weapon (+1 Frost Longsword, with pure good if available, whatever you can afford)

Just upgrade your gear as you go. I took my level 1 of rogue at level 5 in order to spend all skills on open lock, but depending on the user, you might want to spend on something else like UMD or whatever suits your fancy. Once you get evasion (rogue level 2), you will no longer worry about most spells and traps. Once you get firewall, you will be great against the undead and most enemies. The problem with this is that it will take time to get disintegrate to cast against golems, what you can do is get some adamantine weapon with construct bane (or you can just let your party mates do all the fighting, just cast haste/blur/displacement on them to help ;) ).

That's generally it. All you need to have is some patience and the ability to play smart. Good luck comrade.

Carlll
01-31-2010, 09:04 PM
You dont have to splash to make a Battlecaster. Although it can make sense.

The most important question is, do you to be a "real" caster who melees a bit or do you want to be primarily melee?

In the first case, make the casting stat (Int for Wizards, Cha for Sorcs) your primary stat, and Strength and Con secondary ones. Put the level up points into the casting stat.
Learn the spell Master's Touch, it allows you to use all non-exotic weapons. Done.

This is a perfectly valid caster build, in fact it's pretty powerful since it brings (a bit of) melee-DPS together with its spells.

The second choice, mainly melee, would have you choose Strength as a primary attribute. Maybe also aim for TWFing (costs 3 feats and you need a base Dex). It's a lot less optimal than the first variant since its spells wont land well and melee DPS will still be very low compared to real melee. But to each his own.

In both cases you would heal with Quickened Reconstructs at higher levels. Which would mean that your character is a Warforged which is highly adviced for Battlecasters. Clerics will not be pleased to heal a meleeing Elf Sorc.

Possible builds that make sense are for example
Wizard 20 - takes Toughness and Insightful Reflexes for survival (Reflex save is the most important save BY FAR)
Wizard 18/ Rogue 2 - gains Evasion, UMD and a bit of Sneak attack damage
Sorceror 20 - bad Reflex save so is squishier than the Wizard
Sorc 18/ Monk 2 - 2 bonus feats, Evasion; One of the Monk feats should be Insightful Reflexes but Reflex save is still pretty low
Sorc 18/ Rogue 2 - gains Evasion, UMD and a bit of Sneak attack damage; bad Reflex save
Sorc 16/ 2 Paladin/ 2 Rogue or Monk - uber saves from the Pala splash, Evasion from Monk or Rogue; very survivable but sacrifices the most casting power.

As a Sorc i would splash Monk instead of Rogue. The 2 bonus feats are valuable.
The Wizard though already gets a couple of bonus feats so Rogue is more tempting.

But Wizard 20 or Sorc 20 is fine too. You dont have to splash a melee class to melee. In fact, the advantages are pretty minor and the main splashes are Rogue 2 or Monk 2 for Evasion.

tihocan
02-01-2010, 08:25 AM
Carlll gave great advice above. Give him rep :)
A build like vettkinn's, at level cap, is basically a L16 sorcerer with evasion. It's probably enough for most quests, but there's a lot of room to get better. You'd probably want to reincarnate once you reach 20 to get it fixed...

Crazyfruit
02-01-2010, 10:37 AM
One more build example that works nice - Caster 18, BAB class 1, Fighter 1 (fighter taken at 20)

With the right feats & stats you could do great DPS & pick up the final GTHF or GTWF feat @ 20. Mine outdamages pure melees pretty often if they're not a DPS prestige or good rogues.

I prefer barbarians as the extra splash for the faster movement, sprint boosts, +40 hp/+3 dmg/+2 to hit clicky, more power attack, and the "***" people say when they see it on a caster :D

Phidius
02-01-2010, 10:46 AM
Do you have +2 Int/Str/Dex/Con/Wis Tomes, do you have top notch gear all the way up to 20? And I dont mean that +1 Frost Longsword. If the Answer is yes here are 2 links to Either a Sorc battlemage or Wiz battlemage, Also one of my Semi Battlemage build


Impaqt's Build, I'm playing this one Atm
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2721310&posted=1#post2721310

Phidiu's Build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=227607

Mine, Can be switched to be 12r/7w/1r, Able to Trapsmith
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226394

I don't care what P.T. Barnum said... I'm so excited to be mentioned that I don't even care that my name is mis-spelled :D

Seriously, though, a WF Battlemage isn't as difficult to equip as you might think. Yes, you're going to want to get your hands on some seriously expensive gear, but you can be very effective without it.

For example, I rolled up Precious on Cannith as a way to get the gear he needs, and he rocks without a single piece of raid loot. 'Course, he's going to be a 17/2/1 battlemage, not the 12/6/2.

Aspenor
02-01-2010, 10:48 AM
I made one that I'm very pleased with, the link is in my signature below. You can find the exact build breakdown in the Multiclass build forums under The Arcane Knight.

Pedsdmd
02-01-2010, 11:43 PM
Wow, thanks for the heads up up guys

I have to soak in all the info but I do have alot of questions

One quick question, I always play a Paladin and i am wonder if the 16sor/2pal/2rou or monk would be similar or would i be better going pure pal or pal/fig or pal/fi/rogue or something

I noticed that some of the builds didnt have any fighter levels, doesnt that affect your bab and how many times you can attack.

would twf counteract that?

Hadrian
02-02-2010, 02:41 AM
I would strongly suggest a simpler, pure class build to learn the game with before getting fancy.

You're very likely to be disappointed in such a complicated multiclass character that you make without knowing how DDO plays, what style you wish to approach it from, and what kind of gear you're going to need to support your build ideas. Such builds are difficult to make effective without specific gear that could take quite a while to collect, while pure builds are much easier to deal with.

If you're planning a build based on your PnP experiences you're making a mistake that a lot of older players can tell you they've made as well. This game plays nothing like PnP.

MrWizard
02-02-2010, 05:10 AM
I know when you start playing, the first thing you think of is a fighting spell slinging warrior of damnation.

However, the game is very unforgiving of that kind of build and only the most experienced players really make it work well. You can easily make yourself not very good really quick.

A build like that is just nigh on very hard to play well at all for a new person.

My first toon ever was a fighter sorcerer. Level cap was 10 and I went 5/5.
I thought he was cool and could do anything.
Truth is, he was a very 5th level fighter and a 5th level sorc going into 10th level dungeons. He was not a great toon at all.

This game is complex, from the builds to the combat to the user interface to the way things work and stack....and so on.

I would highly recommend starting two characters. One melee, one a caster. learn to play them first... straight fighter, straight WIZARD.

Fighter has lots of room for errors and easily fixed, wizard allows easy use of all spells til you learn what is good and what is not.


It will be fun to make an advanced build, but you will just not be that god since the game is made to deal with much better builds.

I would try that one for my third character.......honestly best advice I could give.

Calebro
02-02-2010, 05:53 AM
I have an even more unconventional pseudo battle mage type that I play.
Halfling dragonmarked monk 3 / wizard 7 / rogue 10
He's an absolute blast to play. A lot more survivable than he appears at a glance. Very gear intensive. Very strange reactions from other players.
The early levels were a breeze.
Once you reach the Sands or Gianthold you better have the hang of playing him properly and managing aggro or he'll eat it SUPER QUICK!

*edit
I basically play him as a self-buffing unarmed rogue.
I really have to watch out for any mob that casts dispel magic and/or other debuffs. Debuffs are a literal killer for him.

tihocan
02-02-2010, 08:08 AM
I noticed that some of the builds didnt have any fighter levels, doesnt that affect your bab and how many times you can attack.
You can use divine power clickies to get to full BAB with minimal investment.

Calebro
02-02-2010, 10:42 AM
You can use divine power clickies to get to full BAB with minimal investment.

These are, IMO, *far* superior to Tenser's.

And remember Peds, damage mitigation is the name of the game for a battlemage.
With a caster icon, running headlong into melee at every opportunity is likely to put you last on the list for heals from the party's healer. For some reason they don't like the squishies jumping in there.
This means that Halflings (with the dragonmarks) and Warforged are the best ways to go for a battlecaster, because you can heal yourself.
You have half the HP of other melee types (or less more likely).
This is less of an issue with the proper spells up.
Displacement means you'll get hit half as often as normally, so half the HP is less of an issue with that going.
Stoneskin, Resists, etc, means that the times you do get hit, you're taking less damage from the blow.
Played properly, a battlecaster should need little healing.
With the goofy combo I listed above, I usually tell the healer to ignore me unless I'm about to die. "Save your SP for the others." is the common statement I make at the start of a quest.

Emili
02-02-2010, 12:09 PM
Some of the finest players I know have excellent battle mage toons... One rule of thumb I will convey... shall you decide to splash - place the splash with the most skill points (such as rogue) up front at level one to maximize you skill points...

Pedsdmd
02-02-2010, 09:05 PM
Wow, thanks for all the varied responses guys.

I have been soaking it all in, the problem I have is that half of what you say I wont understand until I start playing:)

I agree with you that I need to start playing and get a feel

I usually like to play 3 character

Here is what I'm thinking

1. Paladin, with a defensive survivability focused(char/cons)
2. battle mage TWF Wiz/fig/roge (since I have a Pally maybe I wont do that awesome sor/pal/rog build)
3. Battle Priest Cler/fig

So before I start it sounds like i need to pay a few dollars so I can start with a 32pt build correct?

I just dont want to waste my time and redo my player so I appreciate all the info

I agree that playing a battle/mage might be too technique sensitive early on

Calebro
02-02-2010, 09:20 PM
1. Paladin, with a defensive survivability focused(char/cons)

IMO this would be a good way to start out for a couple of different reasons.

1. You get a spell that effectively means you don't have to grind for raid weapons, which takes time and resources. You're automatically raid ready.

2. It is a fairly clicky heavy class for a melee, but it doesn't *start* that way because the early stuff doesn't need it. You can learn to be clicky operated along the way with little loss if you forget to do it or aren't used to it yet. By the time it becomes needed, you should be used to it by then.

3. Did I mention that you don't have to grind for raid weapons?

4. Your Cha will be high, meaning you can save a little money along the way. This will allow you to better equip later players.

5. You'll get some spellcasting ability, but it won't be your focus, so you'll get to learn that as you go as well.

6. Oh, and your raid weapons are free. I'm not sure if I told you that part.

Phidius
02-02-2010, 09:46 PM
...So before I start it sounds like i need to pay a few dollars so I can start with a 32pt build correct?...

IMHO, buying the Warforged race is more important than 32-point builds, if you decide to go with the battlemage.

Sounds like you're not going that direction at the moment, but if/when you do...

Pedsdmd
02-02-2010, 10:34 PM
IMHO, buying the Warforged race is more important than 32-point builds, if you decide to go with the battlemage.

Sounds like you're not going that direction at the moment, but if/when you do...

Thanks for the advice, can you explain this too me. ?

I dont really understand warforged

How much do these things cost?

Where do I purchased them?

Can I but warforged AND 32pt player?

How much do they cost?

sorry for the seemingly dumb questions, I'm sure alot of this makes perfect sense once I start playing but as I mentioned earlier it will irk me to no end if I make a irreversible mistake:)

tihocan
02-03-2010, 06:00 AM
Thanks for the advice, can you explain this too me. ?

I dont really understand warforged

How much do these things cost?

Where do I purchased them?

Can I but warforged AND 32pt player?

How much do they cost?

sorry for the seemingly dumb questions, I'm sure alot of this makes perfect sense once I start playing but as I mentioned earlier it will irk me to no end if I make a irreversible mistake:)
The main good thing about warforged and battle-caster is the ability to self-heal. Note that Pale Master may become a new way of achieving this though (but I can't comment on it since I'm not really sure how it works yet).

You purchase stuff in the store. Open the DDO store (in game) and check how much they cost.

There is little risk for irreversible mistake anymore, with all respec options available. Note that you may start with a 28 pt build, unlock 32 pt through favor on your way up, then do a greater reincarnation to upgrade your existing build to 32 points. This may however be more expensive than buying 32 pt if you have multiple characters you want to upgrade to 32 pt. Or, you can also do a True Reincaranation at L20, which will give you a 34 pt build to play with, but you'll have to re-level from 1 to 20.

Stealthdog
02-03-2010, 06:06 AM
Last weekend there was a battle sorc in a PUG I joined for lowbie quests trying to level my cleric/monk. Most quests were 5-7 range. The battle sorc was a heal sponge. Fortunately the group was pretty good and noone else required much attention, so I was able to keep him alive without having the worry. If the group was struggling, I wouldn't have used so many resources on the battle sorc, would have let him die, and carried his stone around until we hit shrines.

I agree 100% about going warforged if you want to be a battle mage/type. That way you can heal yourself. I am not saying the example above is representative of your build or play. Just, be aware that some healers may be unforgiving if you are draining too many resources. Better to be self-sufficient in this situation.

Calebro
02-03-2010, 06:13 AM
Last weekend there was a battle sorc in a PUG I joined for lowbie quests trying to level my cleric/monk. Most quests were 5-7 range. The battle sorc was a heal sponge. Fortunately the group was pretty good and noone else required much attention, so I was able to keep him alive without having the worry. If the group was struggling, I wouldn't have used so many resources on the battle sorc, would have let him die, and carried his stone around until we hit shrines.

I agree 100% about going warforged if you want to be a battle mage/type. That way you can heal yourself. I am not saying the example above is representative of your build or play. Just, be aware that some healers may be unforgiving if you are draining too many resources. Better to be self-sufficient in this situation.

And just in case you missed it Peds, now that you've also heard it from the healer, I'll repeat:


With a caster icon, running headlong into melee at every opportunity is likely to put you last on the list for heals from the party's healer. For some reason they don't like the squishies jumping in there.
This means that Halflings (with the dragonmarks) and Warforged are the best ways to go for a battlecaster, because you can heal yourself.

spitfirek
02-03-2010, 08:42 AM
I personally favor the Arcane Psycho build as a battlemage. It is usually something like 18 wiz/ 2 fighter(with the last level being fighter for GTHF). You get tons of feats for free from wizard and fighter(6 or 7 if I remember correctly) so you can EASILY get all the caster and melee feats that you want. The main problem is that you do need to start with 32 pt build or drow to make it work because it is kinda stat dependent. You want to get as high as possible str, int, and you want decent dex and con.

I prefer the THF feats over the TWF just cuz I like to hit lots of enemies at once REALLY hard and then I dont have to worry about dex *as much*. With TWF feats you want both str AND dex and probably weapon finesse as well... which just seems like a lot of extra stuff to add to an "already hard to fit everything into" build.

With the arcane psycho you will have excellent melee abilities, awesome buffing spells, and if you want to or need to you are also a pretty good wizard(lvl 18 plus lots of caster feats) so you don't have to ONLY melee or ONLY cast. You can do both depending on what you are fighting, how long between shrines, etc.

The number one thing I LOVE about this build is that unlike other casters, if I happen to run low on SP Im not worthless. I can jump into melee and do nice damage until the next shrine.