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View Full Version : Shuriken are Underpowered



Neko-kun
01-24-2010, 01:19 PM
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Worst Throwing Weapon in the game" garbage that's going on in DDO right now. Shuriken deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine set of Shuriken in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with them for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Shuriken.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a set of shuriken and fold them up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Shuriken are thrice as sharp as throwing knives and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a tossed knife can pierce, a Shuriken can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a Shuriken could easily behead a knight wearing full plate with a simple overhand throw.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined ninja and their shuriken of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the shuriken first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Shuriken are simply the best throwing weapons that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in DDO. Here is the stat block I propose for Shuriken:

(Exotic Throwing Weapon) 1d6 Damage 18-20/x3 Crit

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Shuriken in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Shuriken need to do more damage in DDO, see my new stat block.

-------------------------------

Seriously, tho. Shuriken are significantly underpowered. They're most likely the worst Exotic weapons in the game, as even the wimpy kama has a huge lead over Shuriken. They should be upgraded with higher damage dice, expanded crit range, or SOMETHING. I mean, ages ago, Turbine upgraded Great Crossbows to make them more appealing (they have a cult following now), so why not do the same for shuriken?

Anyone else feel the same way?

Niclos
01-24-2010, 01:36 PM
A guildie of mine made a double upgrade for his monk and got loads of harrassment. On a positive note the only shuriken i believe having is a vorpal one. It does exactly like you say chop the heads off of things. i agree they need to do something and maybe actually drop in chests once and while...

phalaeo
01-24-2010, 01:50 PM
I was all pumped to try them out with my Cleric/Monk splash.

Response?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

As a Halfling, I'm better off with darts. Improve the Shuriken!

/Signed (Big time)

Uhtred_Stark
01-24-2010, 01:55 PM
While I agree that they are underpowered in the game let's be real, no shuriken are beheading an armored knight. They have a series on cable that breaks down warriors vs warriors and they scientifically test the shuriken (among other things). I believe the episode is a spartan warrior vs a japanese ninja.

Anneliese
01-24-2010, 02:08 PM
The main issue is attack speed.

If monks could attack as fast with shurikens as with handwraps or even kamas, they would be good.

TreknaQudane
01-24-2010, 02:15 PM
Shuriken are supposed to be bad.

The fact it's exotic doesn't mean its inherently better, just different.

Having a ranged khopesh isn't a good idea considering all Monks and all Drow have proficiency with it... not even paying attention to the fact with the right feats you're hitting multiple enemies at one time.


If you want the Shuriken fixed, leave it as is but allow the ability to throw multiple at once or increase the attack speed.

Anderei
01-24-2010, 02:29 PM
The usual answer when somebody comes up with logical inconsequences?

Its magic!

The DnD magic spoils Shuriken :-/

Jiipster
01-24-2010, 02:30 PM
While I agree that they are underpowered in the game let's be real, no shuriken are beheading an armored knight. They have a series on cable that breaks down warriors vs warriors and they scientifically test the shuriken (among other things). I believe the episode is a spartan warrior vs a japanese ninja.

The first part is meant in jest. At least I hope so, or I'd be spergin' my head off about the real reason why the Japanese had to fold their metal.

Symar-FangofLloth
01-24-2010, 03:27 PM
The first part is meant in jest. At least I hope so, or I'd be spergin' my head off about the real reason why the Japanese had to fold their metal.

yeah. It's parodying a parody or something. Some complaint, worded similarly, complaining that Katanas, in the D&D 3.5 ruleset, are merely masterwork bastard swords.
I've seen it, it's kinda funny.

That said, throwing and ranged damage in general needs a boost of some sort. But it's tricky, 'cause make it too strong and you'll kill most things before they ever get to you.

Angelus_dead
01-24-2010, 03:30 PM
tl;dr = Shuriken need to do more damage in DDO, see my new stat block.
The DDO stats of Shuriken are fine. The actual problem with those weapons are
1. Thrown weapons are gimpy in DDO.
2. Thousand Stars is a sad joke.

The weapon stats do not need to be directly changed.

Lithic
01-24-2010, 03:56 PM
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined ninja and their shuriken of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the shuriken first because their killing power was feared and respected.


It was the shuruken. It couldn't have been that japan was a worthless volcanic rock with no resources to speak of, split from china (land of spices, gold, and general tao chicken) by a tempestuous stretch of ocean.

It was the ninjas. Yep.

And ninjas are also very scary on the front lines in WWII. Rows and rows of ninjas shouting battlecries and standing out in the bright open daylight, blending in with their black or white robes. Their 100ft range is terryfying to WWII soldiers using mortars, tanks, and rifles. Better get them shuruken guys first lads!

Anderei
01-24-2010, 04:29 PM
Anybody know if a shuriken could pass a full plate? If not, than they are not underpowered.

What could pass a full plate was the longbow. And actually it was the invention of the longbow which thus brought the end of the medival knight style, since with arrows shot that strong as a longbow could, knights were no longer safe in their armor.

Greydeath
01-24-2010, 04:49 PM
The stats are fine, the issue is that 3.0+ changed the attack rate. Under previous versions Shuriken had a much higher RoF than other thrown weapons.

This is compounded with the craptacular ranged system in DDO :rolleyes:

Delacroix21
01-24-2010, 04:52 PM
Umm... ALL throwing weapons are underpowered! Until they make TWF feats work with throwing weapons I dont expect to see any dedicated throwing builds at any point in DDO.


Then again if they did that they would probably have to buff archery/xbows as well.

Letrii
01-26-2010, 01:52 PM
Except for loss of a damage type, DDO shurikens are working as rules for them in D&D state. The primary purpose for using a shuriken in D&D is applying poison or cutting ropes, IME at least.

Flasharte
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
shuriken should have auto many-shot based on BAB. I mean how hard is it really to throw 2-5 of them at a time at the same target.

however, if i dropped 2k on each i'd prolly only throw them one at a time, and prolly not very often.

Letrii
01-26-2010, 02:18 PM
shuriken should have auto many-shot based on BAB. I mean how hard is it really to throw 2-5 of them at a time at the same target.

however, if i dropped 2k on each i'd prolly only throw them one at a time, and prolly not very often.

Be glad DDO doesn't follow rules on treating shurikens as ammo for whether or not they are destroyed when used.

Flasharte
01-26-2010, 02:25 PM
well a returning shuriken would be one at a time, but if ya got a stack of 100 +3 shuriken i wouldnt mind if they all got destroyed if i could throw em out 5 at a time

quickgrif
01-26-2010, 02:50 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/Quickgrif/denial.jpg

FunkyGoose
01-26-2010, 03:02 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/Quickgrif/denial.jpg

Well done!

You win this thread!

...So sayeth the Funk...

gorgorothsixsixsix
01-27-2010, 01:52 AM
The stats are fine, the issue is that 3.0+ changed the attack rate. Under previous versions Shuriken had a much higher RoF than other thrown weapons.

This is compounded with the craptacular ranged system in DDO :rolleyes:

so true. i wonder what genius thought you should attack the same speed with a dagger and a heavy mace...

- shurikens are silent. even a dagger thrown makes some phiiiiuv sound. (sneak attack bonus from long range?)
- u can hold a bunch of shurikens in your left hand and slide-throw shurikens one after other so fast. (multi attack)
- no handle, so less power you can apply.

Psyker
01-27-2010, 02:03 AM
It was the shuruken. It couldn't have been that japan was a worthless volcanic rock with no resources to speak of, split from china (land of spices, gold, and general tao chicken) by a tempestuous stretch of ocean.

It was the ninjas. Yep.

And ninjas are also very scary on the front lines in WWII. Rows and rows of ninjas shouting battlecries and standing out in the bright open daylight, blending in with their black or white robes. Their 100ft range is terryfying to WWII soldiers using mortars, tanks, and rifles. Better get them shuruken guys first lads!

Didn't you ever watch GI JOE? There was one episode where Storm Shadow took out a tank by hand and said "anyone can use a weapon, but a ninja is a weapon". Of course tanks and mortars didn't scare the ninjas. (and don't get me started on how bad @@@ the Samurai are)