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View Full Version : What kind of Cleric should i be?



Thadius17
01-22-2010, 03:48 AM
I've got a dilemma. I'll be mostly playing in a group with my friends. I love to heal, but i hate to be healing ALL the time. I like to cause some damage from time to time, but one thing that bothers me is mana. I like to keep it high, since you don't know what's around the corner, but i don't think it's possible with the offensive spells. My hit-rate is quite low, and so is my damage. I can see huge hatred towards battle clers, because of being selfish and focusing on fighting. If i was a battle cler, i'd mostly focus on keeping the group alive.
I'm fairly new to this game, so if i got anything wrong, please correct me. Here are some questions:

1. I've read that battle clers have basically the same ability to heal. Is that true ? Will it be sufficient for my group? (We also have a bard)
2. What about mana? Can it regenerate only in the rest place ? Is it sufficient to cast and heal ?
3. I have chosen this build: http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1718358&postcount=6 but i see that it's pretty old. Is it still any good? I want to be kinda solo-capable, but my focus is party play. To be usefull, both in damage and in healing, but mostly in healing.


Right now i'm still lvl 2, but i don't want to roll a battle cler or sth later, because i won't be able to catch up with my group.

Visty
01-22-2010, 03:57 AM
1. your ability to heal depends on your enhancements feats and items only, so yes, BCs can heal as good as any other cleric
2. you regain sp only while resting at a shrine or using one of the following items: mana pots, spellstoring ring, abbot gloves, krthos archivist necky, yugoloth int potion, quorion cookie (that woundrous power one)
3. yes, this build is still viable. though you have to look that besides bladebarrier clerics dont have any good damaging spells, so they should focus on crowd control and instadeath spells

if you take a look on the link in my sig, youll see my very pwoerful offensive casting cleric

Thadius17
01-22-2010, 04:07 AM
Oh i see :) thank you.
But if i'll be casting will i be able to keep enough mana to heal?
Can a battle cleric cc well, will i have less powerfull spells or less spells ?
Could you recommend a human battle cleric build :p ?

Visty
01-22-2010, 04:09 AM
the more you cast, the less you have to heal, that is the wonder of offensive casting
what is dead, cant hit the party
what is lying on the ground, cant hit the party
what is stunned, cant hit the party
what is blind, cant hit the party that hard

thats all saves sp you dont need to use for healing

and yes, offensive clerics are best as human imo cause they have the potential for highest wisdom

MystDragon
01-22-2010, 04:18 AM
The main reason I've seen battle clerics get so much hate is because there are battleclerics who won't heal and use the excuse "I'm a battlecleric." Many battleclerics, mine included, have a good career serving as the party's primary healer.

As a cleric, you can heal, fight, and offensively cast. However, the offensive casting abilities don't really shine until higher levels. I believe that the lower level damaging spells suck, personally. However - you get good combat spells later on (i.e. Blade Barrier, Banishment, Implosion, Destruction - just off the top of my head.)

You do get some good control spells - like Command, Greater Command - which allow you to help in limiting damage to the party. You can also take a line of enhancements that transform your turn undead ability into a good damaging weapon vs. undead.

You do also receive some fantastic buffs as you level - again limiting the damage that the party takes. A good strategy is to always watch out for ways you can use your abilities to limit the amount of damage the party takes which stretches out your SP. At lower levels your ability here is limited - but as you gain levels your ability to do as such increases exponentially.

When you get into the higher levels - look into investing in a paralyzing weapon (most min levels I see for this is 14th - don't know if it comes in lower level requirements or not.) I view this as one of my greatest methods of damage control for my party.

I hope this helps - Good luck.

sirgog
01-22-2010, 04:28 AM
1. your ability to heal depends on your enhancements feats and items only, so yes, BCs can heal as good as any other cleric



Battleclerics lose a tiny bit of healing capacity because they usually need to multiclass (slightly) for melee feats and weapon proficiencies. As a result they have a little less SP and also some higher level healing spells (Cure Critical Wounds, all four Mass Cure Wounds spells, and Mass Heal) heal for slightly less. (Mass Cure Critical heals for 4% less on my Clr18/Ftr2 as it would on a Clr20, Mass Heal heals for 10% less, and the other listed spells are between 4.5% and 6.5%.)

I only know this, however, because I've thought about it - in practice in this game, even the 10% loss on Mass Heal isn't often noticeable, and the 4-6.5% difference on the others is totally unnoticed.

As for SP - well, if foes die faster, they deal less damage to the party. In some fights (Abbot raid in particular) a Clr20 is better, in some others (Epic Raiyum) the battlecleric is better, and in most it's a wash and comes down to how you prefer to play.


If you like meleeing, build for melee on your cleric (but never neglect your healing - it's better to heal a party member in need than to get in one more swing), if you like offensive casting, build for that. I find melee builds are stronger at levels 1-10 and at 20, and offensive caster builds stronger from 11 to 19. My sig has links to (outlines of) both types of builds.

SquelchHU
01-22-2010, 05:30 PM
I like offensive caster clerics. Every time I see one stick the mobs to the ground with a greater command I cheer. Less damage that way, and more fun for the guy running them. As long as you keep life magic up the same potency item that helps your Blade Barrier helps your healing spells so your healbot abilities are not impeded, and in a situation where all you're going to do is heal you can just stop casting offensive spells.

I'm not so much a fan of the types that swing weapons around. It works 1-10, but so does just about anything. And the way I see it, if a Cleric wants to damage things they have offensive spells for that. Beyond that even the melee cleric fans tell you straight up it's not new player friendly due to the gear requirements. Since you probably won't need the stat points anyways starting at a 14 Strength should serve you fine at the levels where it works without massive twinking and foreknowledge.

By the way, paralyzers are min level 10 (8 if race restricted). You shouldn't need it for crowd control since Greater Command works much better. Leave those to the characters who don't have better alternatives.

MystDragon
01-22-2010, 08:32 PM
By the way, paralyzers are min level 10 (8 if race restricted). You shouldn't need it for crowd control since Greater Command works much better. Leave those to the characters who don't have better alternatives.

The only problem is Greater Command uses SP - Paralyzers don't. So when it comes to needing to conserve SP's, Paralyzers are still a great tool - especially for melee capable clerics.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-22-2010, 08:41 PM
The only problem is Greater Command uses SP - Paralyzers don't. So when it comes to needing to conserve SP's, Paralyzers are still a great tool - especially for melee capable clerics.

Of course GC hits multiple targets and has the potential for a higher DC.

Noctus
01-22-2010, 08:49 PM
I like offensive caster clerics. Every time I see one stick the mobs to the ground with a greater command I cheer. Less damage that way, and more fun for the guy running them. As long as you keep life magic up the same potency item that helps your Blade Barrier helps your healing spells so your healbot abilities are not impeded, and in a situation where all you're going to do is heal you can just stop casting offensive spells.

I'm not so much a fan of the types that swing weapons around. It works 1-10, but so does just about anything. And the way I see it, if a Cleric wants to damage things they have offensive spells for that. Beyond that even the melee cleric fans tell you straight up it's not new player friendly due to the gear requirements. Since you probably won't need the stat points anyways starting at a 14 Strength should serve you fine at the levels where it works without massive twinking and foreknowledge.

By the way, paralyzers are min level 10 (8 if race restricted). You shouldn't need it for crowd control since Greater Command works much better. Leave those to the characters who don't have better alternatives.


/this.



@Visty
The build from his signature is a good cleric build for veteran players.
New players shouldnt start their Cleric with a base CON of 8, for them i´d recommend to slightly modify the build through lowering CHA by 4 and raising CON by 6.
For new players this will be the better choice.

QuantumFX
01-22-2010, 08:51 PM
The build you chose isn’t really a “Battle Cleric” but more of a “Caster Cleric”. The template is very “Newbie Friendly” and should allow you to play around with all the aspects of the cleric class. I would highly recommend staying with that build.

If you want to play an effective cleric then you are in for a serious learning curve! You want to learn how your spells work, what you should be using them on and how to manage your SP pool. Healing is a major aspect of the cleric class but is not it’s only function.

Play around with the spells available to you. Clerics have very potent crowd control options, a ton of buffs available and some sweet zap options for undead. This doesn’t mean “nuke everything in sight”. It means “Look for things that work”. If you try to hit something with a spell and it fails 2 out of 3 times it's time to stop using that spell and move onto a better tactic.

biggin
01-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Personally I think the best cleric to start with is the healbot/offensive caster. DDO has a high learning curve and a simple way to learn it is to heal others and learn the basics of crowd control. At the mid-levels you can throw on some paralyzers/smiters/disrupters etc. and mix it up with the best of the melee class. I currently am bringing up my TR cleric/monk. At 15/2 I can jump in with some paralyzing handwraps and move from mob to mob, throw out GC, Dismissal, Destruction, and we mow through lvl 14-17 quests. It will take some practice in knowing what quests you can go buck wild with and the ones you need to conserve SP for. It's a matter of experience though, not so much a character choice.

biggin
01-22-2010, 09:11 PM
/this.



@Visty
The build from his signature is a good cleric build for veteran players.
New players shouldnt start their Cleric with a base CON of 8, for them i´d recommend to slightly modify the build through lowering CHA by 4 and raising CON by 6.
For new players this will be the better choice.

/signed

I've always had decent CHA on my clerics until my TR. I used it as a dump stat and pumped CON and DEX. At level 17 I have 400 unbuffed HP, 35 reflex and evasion. Most fun cleric I've run so far, even if my spell pen hurts a bit from it.

MystDragon
01-22-2010, 11:55 PM
Of course GC hits multiple targets and has the potential for a higher DC.

Oh, absolutely agreed. I love GC and I don't remember ever having it fail. I was just pointing out when you are in a quest with a need to conserve SP that paralyzers are a nice tool to have in the arsenal.

jomonkey527
01-23-2010, 05:05 AM
A rich one. They are costly to play.