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Magitu
01-21-2010, 12:32 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist... but why should we need such thing in this game... We dont need leaders or officials to make a group of freinds. In fact in the real life leadership exists but you dont put a banner over his head and it changes all the time acording to what we are doing... so..

WHY should we do such thing?

I meant if you have reason like some among them: thats ok, but... If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

I wish there were less wolves and more humans around. :(

Atenhotep
01-21-2010, 01:36 AM
It's the Hivemind mentality. Its Us vs Them. The trouble is that familiarity breeds mediocrity and those in the hive will ultimately insulate themselves to such a degree that they begin to believe their own press releases. We see this with politicians, celebrities, any tight nit group and this results in the ultimate decline of said group until one day they realize Rome has burnt to the ground.

I also like tacos but not the crunchy shells, the soft shells. Mmmm. Tacos.

Lawrence_V._Sullivan
01-21-2010, 01:49 AM
well, if your guild is such that the Leader is just the one that promotes others, and is basically another person to hang out with then you shouldnt have a problem. its when a leader is trying to over promote, and over lead a guild that it goes bad. a group of friends that you can keep track of is a good thing, and if you dont like the guild mentality.....create a channel where all of your friends can get in touch with youand go for groups.

MissErres
01-21-2010, 02:00 AM
Example:

Chat channel A has 10 people on from 6 different guilds.
Chat channel B has 30 people on from 10 different guilds.

Advertise in both channels and guild chat: Anyone wanna Shroud.

6 people reply: PSI Shroud.
5 spots open

PUG?? I'd rather /wrists

Players 1-7 are part of 4 different guilds. They all ask guildmates if anyone wants to join. Raid group fills, all players that know someone in group. No pugging, usually means a nice smooth run.

Guilds make for a better gaming experience in my opinion. Add them to the use of chat channels and your "friend" resource is multiplied 10 fold (or better).

Halo_572
01-21-2010, 03:32 AM
I started my (one man) guild to try to attract other players that wanted to play my very niche type of permadeath. Mostly to be able to party up with people when doing harder or higher difficulty quests. Not that that has worked, so it still exists but with just me.

I have to agree that any guild in any game that I have ever played is usually about preening and reinforcing their own lack of self esteem. In an online FPS a lot are ruined by stacking of one side with a clan.

What does irritate me are the pointless public posts in MyDDO. One is spamming with 'guild structure' posts at the moment and it can have no interest to anyone but the guild members. Who then give the posts 5 stars. ??

My guild is a chaotic one, it would have a structure of sorts but few rules and only then regarding resurrection, shrines, dying and buying items. What the other players did when I wasn't around is not my concern nor mine theirs. It is why I couldn't join a normal guild, far too anal with their rules and regulations.

But then if this menatility wasn't prevalent in the human race then Facebook and Twitter wouldn't exist, even though I have no idea why they actually do.

Lleren
01-21-2010, 04:58 AM
Guilds have many purposes.
Most of these purposes do boil down to social reasons, this is a mmorpg, it is a social game.

A sense of belonging to something greater to oneself.
Something to give loyalty to.
A sorting device by type of play, and types of social interaction enjoyed.
A statement that I have agreed to work with this group of people for mutual advancement.
Team name helps with group identification
Advertisement for your group of players to find likeminded players.
Scheduling purposes
Training of new recruits to the groups standards

Many of these do boil down to 'my gang" or "pack" or "tribe" ...but so does pretty much any form of social interaction.

With thought out guidelines, policies and screening of applicants. A guild can last till the end of the game it was created in, and beyond. Many do exist that long, quite a few move from game to game with each other.

Quietstorm
01-21-2010, 08:25 AM
I think you are missing the point, or have been soured....

I belong to a guild of 6 people, and have been in the largest guild on the server as an officer, the truth is the guild really just allows you to connect quickly with like-minded people.

We use a series of 3 chat channels and have associations with several others guilds in order to raid. The main purpose is to run with people that play the way we like to play. We have the advantage of always having experienced players and friends that we have played with for years. We know that if people join one of the guilds we run with that they are probably like minded people with similar play styles.

A guild also allows to express yourself freely. We can say ANYTHING in guild chat. We are all friends and we are all officers. We rarely if ever recruit unless it is someone we know REALLY well and have run with A LOT.

The truth is you dont NEED a guild but its a nice benefit. Getting on at night and BS'ing with friends without the constraints of politics makes the game great.

Can you create this environment for yourself? Yes. Will you? doubtful. You need to change the way you look at guilds and join a guild that has similar values to you. We never really have a problem accomplishing anything in game and we always have a good time doing it. We open spots for pugs if we need to fill spots, so we're not really elitists. People that can play abd bust balls are always welcome back.

Just my 2 cp. Guilds really make this game worth playing over a long period of time but you need to cultivate your own culture.

Chai
01-21-2010, 08:45 AM
It's the Hivemind mentality. Its Us vs Them. The trouble is that familiarity breeds mediocrity and those in the hive will ultimately insulate themselves to such a degree that they begin to believe their own press releases. We see this with politicians, celebrities, any tight nit group and this results in the ultimate decline of said group until one day they realize Rome has burnt to the ground.

I also like tacos but not the crunchy shells, the soft shells. Mmmm. Tacos.

I recommend this model of tinfoil hat: http://cjdavies.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/tinfoilhat.jpg

Its more modern than its predecessors and can even be considered in style.

Chai
01-21-2010, 08:48 AM
Yus!!!!!


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.


A Statement That I Have Agreed To Work With This Group Of People For Mutual Advancement.

Atenhotep
01-21-2010, 09:34 AM
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Terrattu/Misc-GWTP.jpg

Mr_Ed7
01-21-2010, 10:34 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist... but why should we need such thing in this game... We dont need leaders or officials to make a group of freinds. In fact in the real life leadership exists but you dont put a banner over his head and it changes all the time acording to what we are doing... so..

WHY should we do such thing?

I meant if you have reason like some among them: thats ok, but... If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

I wish there were less wolves and more humans around. :(

Perhaps the titles are throwing you off and you are missing the benefits. The titles are mostly symbolic.

You do not "need" facebook either, but it is a social network that strengthens bonds...as does a guild.

I happen to wish their were more wolves...whatever you meant by that.

Donnie
01-21-2010, 11:06 AM
Its often hard to see the value in DDO guilds unless you have experienced what it is like to be a part of a quality guild. Since DDO tends to be fast paced with a high turnover, and since it does not afford pleothra of options when it comes to guilds, longevity and practicality can be rough unless real bonds are made between members and efforts are made for continuity.

Wren666
01-21-2010, 11:10 AM
+1
Prefer "themed" Guilds myself.

unionyes
01-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Couple of reasons why I like being in a guild, although one is sort of pessimistic....

You get to know the playstyles of the people you run with, also with some of them you start to get a feel for when they will be on, what they like to run, that sort of thing.

It also makes for easier grouping, in that you can discuss in guild chat who wants to run what, and people can switch to a different class or level of character.

Also, you make friends, and it is always better to run with friends. You can weed out or even just identify the idiots and avoid them, so you are usually assured of a relatively noob free run.

The pessimistic sort of advantage is that you know the people you are running with, and will run with them again, so there is a lot lower chance that they will bail right before an end fight, leave you hanging, or otherwise botch up a quest if the going gets a little tough.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-21-2010, 07:13 PM
My guild is why I'm still playing. A friends list doesn't do the same thing. A friends list doesn't give you the shared chat. A friends list doesn't create community. A friends list is built a person at a time, and to be effective you both need to maintain it on all characters, even as you add your 12th, 13th, 14th alt (good luck with that). A friends list doesn't introduce you to friends of friends who might have similar playstyle. A friends list doesn't show others your style of play (guilds tend to get know rather quickly if they are good/bad/fun/boring/stupid/drunks/etc). Join a guild you have enjoyed running with before you put them down.

Ragemage
01-22-2010, 06:41 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist...


I had to form a guild cause my friendslist is actually my s.h.i.t.list. :D

Atenhotep
01-22-2010, 07:42 AM
I had to form a guild cause my friendslist is actually my s.h.i.t.list. :D


Hey! I resemble that remark! ;)

Noctus
01-22-2010, 09:00 AM
I had to form a guild cause my friendslist is actually my s.h.i.t.list. :D

Im way past that. Since F2P started you really have to weed out the bad apples or they taint your whole groups.

I have an Excel spreadsheet where i can enter the names, guilds and reason why i dont want a certain character or even player in my groups.


168 HP rogue at 16th level? --> ultra-squishy. Not really worth trying to keep him alive.
13th level sorc without Haste? --- yeah, sure. Perhaps in a month he learned what spells are necessary. Then i remove his entry from my list again.
11th level ranger who insulted me when i asked him to switch to TWF once the monsters are in melee range and stop kiting monsters all over the place, dieing repeatedly because he ran away from the group? ---> this and all his other characters. This Player is DNG forever.


and so on. much better than using the "friends" list.

Noctus
01-22-2010, 09:03 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist... but why should we need such thing in this game... We dont need leaders or officials to make a group of freinds. In fact in the real life leadership exists but you dont put a banner over his head and it changes all the time acording to what we are doing... so..

WHY should we do such thing?

I meant if you have reason like some among them: thats ok, but... If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

I wish there were less wolves and more humans around. :(


Guilds are there to make it easy to find like-minded people. Those who enjoy playing DDO the same way you do enjoy it.

Some like speedruns, some like flowersniffing, some like raiding all the time, some like Roleplaying, and so on. PUGs are like a box of choclate, you never know what you get. (playstyle and competence level)

totmacher
01-22-2010, 12:36 PM
zerg tested, hivemind approved

Mr_Ed7
01-23-2010, 10:39 AM
Truly sad when you feel the need to use a positve application as a friend's list for your enemies list....

Have that many do ya?

What's even sadder...A SPREAD SHEET! LMMFAO!!!

kebin131
01-23-2010, 10:45 AM
Untill there's real PvP, guilds are kinda dumb. Having awesome equips just to do missions can get boring.

Eleia
01-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist... but why should we need such thing in this game... We dont need leaders or officials to make a group of freinds. In fact in the real life leadership exists but you dont put a banner over his head and it changes all the time acording to what we are doing... so..

WHY should we do such thing?

I meant if you have reason like some among them: thats ok, but... If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

I wish there were less wolves and more humans around. :(

Now-a-days with the change in how raiding works, there is little reason to actualy join a guild in any online game in my opinion. However, there is no reason to not join a guild either. It is a shared friends list, and more than not, you can find a great guild that you enjoy spending time with, and people you enjoy playing with so much, that it keeps you in the game.

However, like everything, if guilds aren't for you, don't join one. It's to make your time in the game easier, but it is in no means ment to be game breaking if you don't join a guild.

Some people, (not all mind you) also either have a problem with, or just do not feel like having to deal with conflict in game. A guild, and great leadership will do that for you. As well as putting raids and groups together.

To me, it depends on your personality. Myself, I have never been very guild oriented. I don't like being told what to do, and have never been very good with enforced order. I also have found myself not very geared to "guild loyality." I just don't want to put that much time and effort into a game anymore. But...I still like the idea of guilds in online games.

So, it really comes down to "what ever floats your boat."

Lleren
01-23-2010, 11:00 AM
Untill there's real PvP, guilds are kinda dumb. Having awesome equips just to do missions can get boring.

Seriously? Checkers has better PvP then most mmorpg's

Noctus
01-23-2010, 04:08 PM
Truly sad when you feel the need to use a positve application as a friend's list for your enemies list....

Have that many do ya?

What's even sadder...A SPREAD SHEET! LMMFAO!!!


We, you see, some people get fun out of sitting in a quest, neglectable contributing, leeching effort away from others who do the actual questing. Some even intentionally aggravating other players.


While i have fun if everybody contributes something to the groups success, is a worthy member to the party and we all complete the quest, while working as a real team.

Without anybody willfully running away from the group repeatedly, without anybody repeatedly disrupting the tactics for a given encounter 10secs after they were explained , without anybody surprise-dropping group mid-raid because "i was in here for the part 4 chest here anyway, kk bb", without people lying about what their character can perform if a given ability is searched for and it´s the last spot to fill and explicitly mentioned in the LFM (attribute runes, being a healer, having trapskills skilled, having Haste as a spell, having Ooze Puppet as a spell), without anybody deceitfully concealing the fact that he is new to the quest after the general question was raised if anybody is new or unfamiliar with the quest and than screwing up the quest leading to a fail.

Generally i dont like grouping with people who dont pull their weight in the slightest and wont work as a team. Either through abysmally bad builds, abysmally bad playing skills or simple antisocial behavior. And i mean abysmally bad, not simply low performance.


I simply do not want to group with such persons. While others just take everything that can hit an accept button, and then wonder why some groups fail so much more than other people´s groups / how a guild can acquire an exemplary bad reputation......



P.S. (edit added just for Mr. Ed7)
Spreadsheet because i like to keep everything orderly. I dont need a critical mass of chaos before i start an organized administration. Or stick with inferior tools for a job if i can easily have the proper ones.
The number is 3 guilds, after constantly, repeatedly, personally experienced (no hearsay) extremely poor contribution and/or bad behavior happening roughly half the time i grouped with a member of said guilds. And im not in the mood any more to take chances. Bad for the 20% of the members who are actually decent players, but very good for my fun in-game.
As well as 14 individual character names.

Fiall
01-23-2010, 08:26 PM
Just renewing my play in DDO, not in a guild, but I think that guilds have a great place in gaming. I have played a few MMO's, the best experiences I had were when I was in a guild. Why? The beauty of the MMO, for me, is socialisation. I play to be with social with folks in a setting that we all have in common. I have done the "uber guild" in EQ, been in a social guild in lineage II, but the most fun i had was with a guild I met in early EQ (left them to join the uber guild...saw alot had a different kind of fun) but rejoined them in WoW. I have met these folks in real life, and have spent a ton of time with them, when the leave wow i will probably follow them! The reason that we have fun is that we are all like minded players who respect each other...we accept each others weaknesses and feed off thier strengths. Raiding is alot easier when you have that understanding.

DDO may or may not be a good place for raiding but it is a great place to be in a guild of folks that you can have fun with and associate with. All the better to really enjoy the time spent online.

I am level 5...so just hanging and banging for now, but when I get higher, who knows? Maybe I can find a group of new friends like my WoW friends and join em in a guild.

Fun...its the only reason to play, if you have fun in a guild join one, if you don't, don't! Calling people sheep or whatnot is plain silly...enjoy the game as you want, thier really are alot of "right" ways!

See you in game!

IgorUnchained
01-23-2010, 08:37 PM
I go guildless and have for the bulk of my years in DDO.

That said, I was once a member of a good guild (ONE good guild) that had a core group who ran for fun and ran at the same time. Noone was selfish, Everyone was patient, and we could usually get a raid together without getting more than a couple of non-guildies (although we ran with non guildies all the time and loved it). Because they were all adults with proper priorities, that meant they didnt stay around. Otherwise I would still be a proud member.

Every other guild I have been in I have found that the people didnt actually run together. The exception would be the high level zerger guilds who repel me as much as I repel them.

A good guild is priceless, the average guild is a handicap.

TheJusticar
01-24-2010, 12:19 AM
It's the Hivemind mentality. Its Us vs Them. The trouble is that familiarity breeds mediocrity and those in the hive will ultimately insulate themselves to such a degree that they begin to believe their own press releases. We see this with politicians, celebrities, any tight nit group and this results in the ultimate decline of said group until one day they realize Rome has burnt to the ground.

I also like tacos but not the crunchy shells, the soft shells. Mmmm. Tacos.

+1. Well said. Tho, I know it as the "salt shaker syndrome" but the premise is the exact same as you expounded above.

TheJusticar
01-24-2010, 12:22 AM
We can say ANYTHING in guild chat.

Not entirely true. Ask Tot :p

Mr_Ed7
01-24-2010, 09:09 PM
We, you see, some people get fun out of sitting in a quest, neglectable contributing, leeching effort away from others who do the actual questing. Some even intentionally aggravating other players.


While i have fun if everybody contributes something to the groups success, is a worthy member to the party and we all complete the quest, while working as a real team.

Without anybody willfully running away from the group repeatedly, without anybody repeatedly disrupting the tactics for a given encounter 10secs after they were explained , without anybody surprise-dropping group mid-raid because "i was in here for the part 4 chest here anyway, kk bb", without people lying about what their character can perform if a given ability is searched for and it´s the last spot to fill and explicitly mentioned in the LFM (attribute runes, being a healer, having trapskills skilled, having Haste as a spell, having Ooze Puppet as a spell), without anybody deceitfully concealing the fact that he is new to the quest after the general question was raised if anybody is new or unfamiliar with the quest and than screwing up the quest leading to a fail.

Generally i dont like grouping with people who dont pull their weight in the slightest and wont work as a team. Either through abysmally bad builds, abysmally bad playing skills or simple antisocial behavior. And i mean abysmally bad, not simply low performance.


I simply do not want to group with such persons. While others just take everything that can hit an accept button, and then wonder why some groups fail so much more than other people´s groups / how a guild can acquire an exemplary bad reputation......



P.S. (edit added just for Mr. Ed7)
Spreadsheet because i like to keep everything orderly. I dont need a critical mass of chaos before i start an organized administration. Or stick with inferior tools for a job if i can easily have the proper ones.
The number is 3 guilds, after constantly, repeatedly, personally experienced (no hearsay) extremely poor contribution and/or bad behavior happening roughly half the time i grouped with a member of said guilds. And im not in the mood any more to take chances. Bad for the 20% of the members who are actually decent players, but very good for my fun in-game.
As well as 14 individual character names.

Am I on your list? Because your kiss is on my list when I put out the lights.

You have gone mad with your minute amount of power.

In the immortal words of W. Shatner: "Get a life!"

SPREAD SHEET! BWAHHAHAHAH!!!

Lorien_the_First_One
01-24-2010, 09:59 PM
Truly sad when you feel the need to use a positve application as a friend's list for your enemies list....!!!

Its not an enemies list, its a do not group list. It's actually a pretty common use of the list.

Magitu
01-27-2010, 12:10 AM
Only a single replay is answering to the complete idea.

Thanks Wren666.

Lagin
01-27-2010, 12:45 AM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist...
If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

Have you been AFK for a while?

1), Reroll,
2), Go back to WOW,
3), Thank Turbine for casual play! (so you & your hireling, have a place to hang out together.)
4), How Dare You!!!
defame the time-honored, Original, Paid their dues (unlike you),
Xoriat based guilds,
That learned & taught ALL of us how this game ROCKS!
Not a watered down version of D&D you narrow minded "Kinder" "Top-Knotted" twerps that you are, gamers!
No Sir!

The "real leaders" of DDO guilds, are the ones that have kept this game thriving!
Try, hanging with some people from; (Modern day Thelanis for example)
DARPA, DWAT, Legion, Storm Lords, Mercs, Occams Razor, Old School Gamers, Thrashnack, BoB, Mealstrom, Vorpal, IFV, IFS, Wild Bunch, Drink & Be Merry, Dungeon Rats, GS Inc, Sands, Amen, Exploration Society, Fellowship of Golden Night,Madborn, Militia, ACME Ftng Co,.....
And so many more "groups" that "explored, learned, tested & taught all we know now!
With out the Original Guilds, that formed this game;
YOU wouldn't be here posting this! sport!!


Thank you for shopping...

Lleren
01-27-2010, 01:04 AM
Only a single replay is answering to the complete idea.

Thanks Wren666.

I think a few posters discussed the idea's behind guilds.
Why a guild is better then a shared friends list.
Why a guild is not just a shared friend list.
Why guilds exist at all.

While I agree that if you are in the top end range of social networking ability a guild won't help you, for most of the population, it will. A "good" one quite a bit. A "good" guild being very subjective.

Perhaps your idea was misunderstood.

The only thing Wren666 did different is claim that she added +1 rep, oh and used a lot less words.

+1
Prefer "themed" Guilds myself.

Pfold
01-27-2010, 02:21 PM
Have you been AFK for a while?

1), Reroll,
2), Go back to WOW,
3), Thank Turbine for casual play! (so you & your hireling, have a place to hang out together.)
4), How Dare You!!!
defame the time-honored, Original, Paid their dues (unlike you),
Xoriat based guilds,
That learned & taught ALL of us how this game ROCKS!
Not a watered down version of D&D you narrow minded "Kinder" "Top-Knotted" twerps that you are, gamers!
No Sir!

The "real leaders" of DDO guilds, are the ones that have kept this game thriving!
Try, hanging with some people from; (Modern day Thelanis for example)
DARPA, DWAT, Legion, Storm Lords, Mercs, Occams Razor, Old School Gamers, Thrashnack, BoB, Mealstrom, Vorpal, IFV, IFS, Wild Bunch, Drink & Be Merry, Dungeon Rats, GS Inc, Sands, Amen, Exploration Society, Fellowship of Golden Night,Madborn, Militia, ACME Ftng Co,.....
And so many more "groups" that "explored, learned, tested & taught all we know now!
With out the Original Guilds, that formed this game;
YOU wouldn't be here posting this! sport!!


Thank you for shopping...


/facepalm

Kept the game thriving? Is that why Turbine just up and decided one day that they would drastically change how they marketed the game?

What's with all the hate towards WoW players? Didn't you know Turbine is trying to rope more of us in?

NEWS FLASH: If Turbine could lure more subscribers away from WoW they would. Tough noogies for you I guess.

It almost seems like those who tried WoW, failed and wound up playing here are on the forefront of the bashings. I hate to break it to you, DDO, in its entirety, is casual by comparison to WoW simply on the difficulty of content. When was the last time you spent 4 hours a night pushing new content? I think it would speak volumes for itself that WoW has a 7 day cooldown on raid instances so that groups can return on another day within that lockout period to complete the instance(s) as some upon release are/were not completable without severely outgearing the instance or massive nerfs to the mobs/bosses in them. Proof is in the pudding: I would be willing to bet any of the top 1000 world WoW guilds could crush all DDO content in 30 days or less. Can you say the same of the reciprical? I mean in WoW it does only take 6 game days to level from 1-80. So what is it exactly that makes WoW players so bad? Better to be the big fish in a small pond to some I suppose. /shrug

As far as your comment concerning 'casual' mode and your somewhat dismay towards its creation, get used to it or go play Wii. It's a fact that casual players will always outnumber 'hardcore' or 'endgame' players so obviously guess what group Turbine will try to cater to. This isn't the case in solely DDO, but in all MMO's. Hell, it's true for most ccg's for that fact. It's the casuals that generate more profit so of course the producers will try to make the game as accomodating for them. A shining example of this is nerfing/adjustment of mobs/bosses in game. If players cannot complete or beat content they become disatisfied and could pose as a loss of a subscriber for Turbine. Does that make you feel casual?

Think of it this way sporto, if it wasn't for the infusion of new subscribers (cashuals< can I trademark that?) you wouldn't be posting here either.

Back on topic...

As far as guilds and their place in MMO's they should absolutely exist... ... for several reasons. The guilds will normally function as intended when created. Sure there will always be a turnover rate but you always meet new folks that are competent with how and what they play that would be an added asset if added to your ranks. From my experience there are about 4 main categories of guilds.

1. Family/Casual: Exactly as its label implies, its members are there for more social reasons than any other.
2. Feeder Raiding Casual: Usually don't have a set raiding schedule, hence the casual, but it's members are beginning to grasp the challenge of end content in general.
3. Feeder Raiding: Hardcore by comparison to the casual raiding guild, they usually have a schedule they stick to and in general content progress is hindered by in guild drama (loot dist or otherwise), poor player pool on the server, poor raid leaders or poor recruitment practices.
4. Hardcore Raiding Guild: Good ones are more or less run like businesses. Poor performance or attendance earn a raider the boot/demotion. Better built raiding guilds maintain a good balance of players, having enough players online on any given raid night, keeping only 'non staple' characters on the bench for optimal raid comp. Players from these guilds (the higher ups) in general do a lot of homework for character builds, gear optimization etc. and tend to min/max whenever possible pushing their characters to the limits. Generally what draws players to these types of guilds is their progress rate. If progression is being made then one can assume all the cylinders must be firing.

Unfortunately, at least from my experience, the content available in DDO doesn't really sustain the need for 'hardcore' guilds. In all honesty, I've been able to successfully pug all content with the exception of epics without a problem. The epics thing is more on me because judging from what I have read thusfar, I still need some more key gear from either raid completions or getting lucky on a roll before I should go in one (damn those large scales =P). Anyways, I can kind of see where you could say they aren't necessary and I could agree. On the other hand I can see where you say they are more than just an extended or 'preferred' friends list and I could agree.

Now on to the more humorous subject of ... ... spreadsheets. el oh el j/k =P

Seriously though, I have been in runs where folks are just too new, are dbags, or are maybe just bad. So I can see where you're coming from. On the other hand though, I'd like to point out that the guy barking out orders in an impatient manner towards those players has been kicked from group or 'mysteriously' dc'ed mid quest just as often as any other person. Maybe some people were just in a bad mood that day or work really sucked or they didn't get any the night before... ... it's all possible. It all happens all the time. I guess I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Obviously there's the definite jacka** every now and again that seems to just crave attention but fortunately so far those people are far and few between. Personally, even though I am relatively new I always try and help those that either ask or at least seem to be trying to better themselves. Why? Because 11 million people don't play this game. The player pool is alot more shallow and every one person I help hopefully does the same for someone else, so on and so forth, eventually making the game better for myself and for them.

I do apologize for the wall of text but I felt the need to express my thoughts on some of the rebuttals in this thread without resorting to spouting off the founding guild lists from the statue in the harbor...

As the Great Gazoo once said, "Until next time my little Dum Dums..."

lewlz

Kiranselie
01-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Not entirely true. Ask Tot :p

Tot is not, nor will he ever be a PWNY. Please do not slander us any further :D

Heffty_Smurf
01-28-2010, 02:57 PM
idk if its just me but people who knock guilds and say how they are over rated and people dont get anything out of them remind me of high scool girls that werent asked to go to the prom and are trying to justify why its all just a big waste of time. seriously if you really feel that way then there really are 2 scenarios, either you have not found the right guild or you are the issue and do not have the social skills to get the most out of a guild. Im not saying thats a bad thing, Im saying dont hate guilds because you dont fit in. Ive seen a lot of funny comments in this thread such as someone saying that the way raid loot drops makes guilds a waste, come on, are u serious? I know in my guild there is constant raiding, if u need something it is an all out push to get you and everyone else the items they need.

t3pt6k
01-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Most guilds here are nothing but a shared friendlist... but why should we need such thing in this game... We dont need leaders or officials to make a group of freinds. In fact in the real life leadership exists but you dont put a banner over his head and it changes all the time acording to what we are doing... so..

I meant if you have reason like some among them: thats ok, but... If you are willing to put together a group of friends, thouse "leader" and "official" titles are going to do nothing but be in the middle.

Leader and Officer are simply mechanics for handling the formation and management of an in-game guild. There has been some work by Turbine to allow for custom tagging of those positions - as a matter of fact it crept in a recent release when it was not ready for prime time - but that aside. This custom tagging is for folks, perhaps like the OP, who may not want titles or assigns false meaning to them by allowing them to "be in the middle" of things - and that's all fine and good - perhaps some time soon you be able to unify all titles in a guild so everyone has the same "rank" for lack of a better term eliminating any perceived hierarchy.

I happen to be the leader of our guild right now but there have been others before me and there will be others after. Our guild has spawned real-life friendships and virtual relationships which now span multiple MMOs over a number of years, but I also have in-game friends outside the guild so if that's the way someone wants to roll there is nothing wrong with either.

I echo Hefty - that we all work together often to attain individual goals, gear, and flagging for our members, but anyone is capable of doing that from within or without a guild. We maintain an active guild website which has documented a history of our guild, we have active forums where we communicate without the fear of being attacked, chastised, or flamed, we have scheduled raids, a very generous guild bank with hundreds of items for all level players and other tools we use to define guild goals.

Sure we could maintain the website and using channels we could function as a guild without using the in-game mechanic - but why would we?

I for one like team sports and also like being in a guild - our guild has become a matter of pride for us - which means nothing in-game and nothing to those outside our guild and that's as it should be. We have fun with it but we certainly aren't forcing anyone to be in a guild - it just works for us.

The beauty is you have free choice to find a guild that fits your play-style or you can play unguilded the game still plays the same way. If you are wholly convinced that guilds are useless and a glorified friends list then by all means play the way you want to.

dungan
01-28-2010, 04:43 PM
Myabe you've just been in bad guilds where the titles "Officer" and "leader" go to their heads or something...

The guild I'm in in made up mostly of people who grew up together playing pnp. There are actually only three of us who don't know this original group in person (that play regularly at least). When the "leader" promotes somebody to "Officer" it really doesn't mean anything more than we can then allow alts into the guild.

But although the ranking system doesn't mean anything, the guild itself does. 99% of the time we only run with those of us that are online...even if there are just 2 of us. We try to start alts at the same time so that we don't have to join pugs...and it's just plain fun to run with eachother. Our "friends" lists is just that, usually having people from one ore two other guilds that we run with, primarily raids, which obiously we can't fill on our own.

Running with-in the guild also means that we've learned that sometimes some of us are drunk/asleep/doing 3 other things at the same time, and will on occasion do stupid/crazy things that may not go over well in pugs....but those are some of the things that make this guild so fun to run with.

Mr_Ed7
01-29-2010, 10:36 AM
Myabe you've just been in bad guilds where the titles "Officer" and "leader" go to their heads or something...

The guild I'm in in made up mostly of people who grew up together playing pnp. There are actually only three of us who don't know this original group in person (that play regularly at least). When the "leader" promotes somebody to "Officer" it really doesn't mean anything more than we can then allow alts into the guild.

But although the ranking system doesn't mean anything, the guild itself does. 99% of the time we only run with those of us that are online...even if there are just 2 of us. We try to start alts at the same time so that we don't have to join pugs...and it's just plain fun to run with eachother. Our "friends" lists is just that, usually having people from one ore two other guilds that we run with, primarily raids, which obiously we can't fill on our own.

Running with-in the guild also means that we've learned that sometimes some of us are drunk/asleep/doing 3 other things at the same time, and will on occasion do stupid/crazy things that may not go over well in pugs....but those are some of the things that make this guild so fun to run with.


Good point!

Our guild utilizes the titles as a reward for leveling, and general helpfulness. We have also utilized additional titles despite not being offered. This is mostly for fun, and to add additional flavor to our themed guild.

Magitu
03-20-2011, 05:25 AM
Since I said this the game happened to change... Exactly how I like... And now there is a complete undenyable reason.

Tom318
03-20-2011, 05:38 AM
We, you see, some people get fun out of sitting in a quest, neglectable contributing, leeching effort away from others who do the actual questing. Some even intentionally aggravating other players.


While i have fun if everybody contributes something to the groups success, is a worthy member to the party and we all complete the quest, while working as a real team.

Without anybody willfully running away from the group repeatedly, without anybody repeatedly disrupting the tactics for a given encounter 10secs after they were explained , without anybody surprise-dropping group mid-raid because "i was in here for the part 4 chest here anyway, kk bb", without people lying about what their character can perform if a given ability is searched for and it´s the last spot to fill and explicitly mentioned in the LFM (attribute runes, being a healer, having trapskills skilled, having Haste as a spell, having Ooze Puppet as a spell), without anybody deceitfully concealing the fact that he is new to the quest after the general question was raised if anybody is new or unfamiliar with the quest and than screwing up the quest leading to a fail.

Generally i dont like grouping with people who dont pull their weight in the slightest and wont work as a team. Either through abysmally bad builds, abysmally bad playing skills or simple antisocial behavior. And i mean abysmally bad, not simply low performance.


I simply do not want to group with such persons. While others just take everything that can hit an accept button, and then wonder why some groups fail so much more than other people´s groups / how a guild can acquire an exemplary bad reputation......



P.S. (edit added just for Mr. Ed7)
Spreadsheet because i like to keep everything orderly. I dont need a critical mass of chaos before i start an organized administration. Or stick with inferior tools for a job if i can easily have the proper ones.
The number is 3 guilds, after constantly, repeatedly, personally experienced (no hearsay) extremely poor contribution and/or bad behavior happening roughly half the time i grouped with a member of said guilds. And im not in the mood any more to take chances. Bad for the 20% of the members who are actually decent players, but very good for my fun in-game.
As well as 14 individual character names.

Actually... it seems more to me like you have fun being a control freak. Did you fail the first time in any quest? now that you're experienced (not skilled, there's no real skill in this game) you take it on yourself to order people around, because you like everything orderly.

What do you really get if you succeed, a cookie? :)

PopeJual
03-20-2011, 10:02 AM
Actually... it seems more to me like you have fun being a control freak. Did you fail the first time in any quest? now that you're experienced (not skilled, there's no real skill in this game) you take it on yourself to order people around, because you like everything orderly.

What do you really get if you succeed, a cookie? :)

This is a pretty significant necro, but I do have to ask, why do you care?

If he chooses to not group with somene who acts like an ass or a moron, why would you have a problem with that?

BOgre
03-20-2011, 10:18 AM
Example:

Chat channel A has 10 people on from 6 different guilds.
Chat channel B has 30 people on from 10 different guilds.

Advertise in both channels and guild chat: Anyone wanna Shroud.

6 people reply: PSI Shroud.
5 spots open

PUG?? I'd rather /wrists

Players 1-7 are part of 4 different guilds. They all ask guildmates if anyone wants to join. Raid group fills, all players that know someone in group. No pugging, usually means a nice smooth run.

Guilds make for a better gaming experience in my opinion. Add them to the use of chat channels and your "friend" resource is multiplied 10 fold (or better).

this^ is exactly why guilds exist. Who wants to pug all the time? Nothing more frustrating than looking for ppl to quest with and finding lame strangers.

And another obvious reason is that in a micro-purchase business model, adding a level of buyable content makes great sense. Be glad guilds exist and they are well populated. They help to pay for the development of the game.

Find yourself in a crummy guild? Make your own and recruit the type of people you enjoy playing with.

Falco_Easts
03-20-2011, 09:41 PM
I hated the update that was Rise of the Guilds. Be all means encourage people to join guilds but people should not feel like they are at a disadvantage by not being in one. (Please note I said feel like they are at a disadvantage not are at a disadvantage).

I know that rubbish guilds were always out there but with Rise of RotG they multiplied and became a vacuum sucking up all new players in the Harbour/Korthos.
The problem with this
These players get a bad first experience of guilds.
If new to MMO's they know no better.
They are fed bad advice through guild chat.
If they run in guild they are likely to have bad experiences with other players.
They will not get a chance to run with a lot of better players because of their guild tag.
They will never get invited to better guilds because of their guild tag.

These players will have a subpar DDO experience because they joined a guild. A lot of the guilds out there aren't what I would consider the right type of guild.