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View Full Version : Time for Another Change Wishlist Thread from Me



Aesop
01-14-2010, 06:03 AM
I do this sometimes. I write down a bunch of things I'd like to see happen. Sometimes people come up with alternate suggestions for something I've come up with and I incorporate that into the idea. Usually I start this at the precise wrong time and can't finish typing it due to having to go to work.... liike will happen this morning.

Anyway here goes some oldies but goodies.



Combat Styles:


Sword and Board: The 2 main classes that involve S&B were given enhancments to help those specific styles out... that all fine and danady but doesn't fully address the issues. You need to fix the base before adding stuff on to it or it just collapses.

S&B is not considered a "good" dps option and the benefits of its defensive option are still questionable at best. Unless you are a third tier Defender build you are better off going twf and pajama hopping.

Defensive Options: Currently the Feats Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery are only "useful" when blocking thus reducing your DPS to 0 and only add 6 Active DR to the characters total. With higher level shields this is less than half what just having a shield would do and in the larger scheme of things amount for a waste of 2 feat slots.

Instead merge these Feats with the Shield Specialization Feat and bump up its Active component. Shield Mastery instead of granting Active DR 3 grants +1 Shield AC and 5 Active DR. Improved Shield Mastery could improve upon this by granting +2 Shield AC and 10 Active DR (total).

Offensive Options: Currently S&B doesn't do enough damage to rank. TWF has significantly increased DPS due to the extra attacks it gains and THF was given Glancing Blows that affect an area of critters. S&B was actually weakened as TWF does not affect shield attacks, due to the mechanics associated with Shield Bashing. The Improved Shield Bash feat was left as written and incorporated into the active shield bashing attacks that were implemented.

Instead give S&B combat off hand attacks as passive hooks built into the sequence. Start off with only one Shield Bash attack on the fourth attack in sequence and have these passive atttacks work the same as an off hand attack doing half strength modifier extra damage. Leave the Active Shield Bash attacks but have them count as a two handed attack dealing strength and one half extra damage (as you are putting full force behuind it) this will help compensate for the horridly slow attack rate.

Change Improved Shield Bash to granting an additional passive Shield Bash hook attack on attack sequence two. Granting a total of two passive Shield Bash attacks. This will not make S&B even as powerful as TWF but it will help improve the style to a more respectable level of play.


... I'll add more tonight after work... told ya I'd run out of time...

Aesop

toughguyjoe
01-14-2010, 06:06 AM
I do this sometimes. I write down a bunch of things I'd like to see happen. Sometimes people come up with alternate suggestions for something I've come up with and I incorporate that into the idea. Usually I start this at the precise wrong time and can't finish typing it due to having to go to work.... liike will happen this morning.

Anyway here goes some oldies but goodies.



Combat Styles:


Sword and Board: The 2 main classes that involve S&B were given enhancments to help those specific styles out... that all fine and danady but doesn't fully address the issues. You need to fix the base before adding stuff on to it or it just collapses.

S&B is not considered a "good" dps option and the benefits of its defensive option are still questionable at best. Unless you are a third tier Defender build you are better off going twf and pajama hopping.

Defensive Options: Currently the Feats Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery are only "useful" when blocking thus reducing your DPS to 0 and only add 6 Active DR to the characters total. With higher level shields this is less than half what just having a shield would do and in the larger scheme of things amount for a waste of 2 feat slots.

Instead merge these Feats with the Shield Specialization Feat and bump up its Active component. Shield Mastery instead of granting Active DR 3 grants +1 Shield AC and 5 Active DR. Improved Shield Mastery could improve upon this by granting +2 Shield AC and 10 Active DR (total).

Offensive Options: Currently S&B doesn't do enough damage to rank. TWF has significantly increased DPS due to the extra attacks it gains and THF was given Glancing Blows that affect an area of critters. S&B was actually weakened as TWF does not affect shield attacks, due to the mechanics associated with Shield Bashing. The Improved Shield Bash feat was left as written and incorporated into the active shield bashing attacks that were implemented.

Instead give S&B combat off hand attacks as passive hooks built into the sequence. Start off with only one Shield Bash attack on the fourth attack in sequence and have these passive atttacks work the same as an off hand attack doing half strength modifier extra damage. Leave the Active Shield Bash attacks but have them count as a two handed attack dealing strength and one half extra damage (as you are putting full force behuind it) this will help compensate for the horridly slow attack rate.

Change Improved Shield Bash to granting an additional passive Shield Bash hook attack on attack sequence two. Granting a total of two passive Shield Bash attacks. This will not make S&B even as powerful as TWF but it will help improve the style to a more respectable level of play.


... I'll add more tonight after work... told ya I'd run out of time...

Aesop

Dear Aesop,

We are your friends. We care about you. We brought you here today because we want you to become a productive member of society. Your addiction is hurting you, and everyone around you.

This is your DDO intervention. We hope we can help you, because we care.



XD

Borror0
01-14-2010, 06:28 AM
Even if you are a third tier Defender build you are better off going twf and pajama hopping.
I believe you made a typo there. Corrected it for you. ;)

S&B is not considered a "good" dps option and the benefits of its defensive option are still questionable at best.
I'm trying to understand which path you're for, here, Aesop. From what I can understand, your goal is to make of DDO a sort of Diablo II-like character design where the difference in survivability and defensive capacities are there but not enough to really lead to DPS or tank builds.

Basically, the design could be described as "We are all DPS builds." Is that correct?

marcosoneghett
01-14-2010, 06:45 AM
Let me take the discussion to another path here.

I would like to see the attuning rituals :

Attuning Ritual 1 Binds / Attunes items so they no longer take permanent damage and can have rituals (Like the Adamantine Ritual placed on them) but it can no longer be traded.

The item crafted plus Khyber Dragonshards Fragments to the potency of 2, Khyber Dragonshard Fragments Ex: Level 12 item need 144 Khyber Dragonshard Fragments. **
.
Adamantine Ritual 1 This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability.
10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item (Items bound like raid items still need the binding/Attune Ritual before upgrading here.

.
Adamantine Ritual 2 This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. +5 to Durability.
* 15 Adamantine Ore, 20 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item (Items bound like raid items still need the binding/Attune Ritual before upgrading here.

.
Alchemical Armor Eldritch Ritual Grants your armor a +1 alchemical bonus to AC. Your armor, 5 Vials of Pure Water, and 15 Strings of Prayer Beads.
.
Alchemical Shield Eldritch Ritual Grants your shield a +1 alchemical bonus to AC. Your shield, 6 Silver Flame Hymnals, and 2 Tomes: Prophecies of Khyber.
.
Force Damage Ritual Your weapon will do 1 point of force damage on each successful hit. Your weapon, 3 Luminescent Dusts, and 9 Fragrant Drowshood mushrooms.

.
Force Critical Ritual Your weapon will do 1d4 points of force damage on each successful critical hit. Your weapon, 6 Sparkling Dusts, and 12 Deadly Feverblanch mushrooms.
.
Resistance Ritual Your jewelry item will give you a +1 competence bonus to saves. Your jewelry accessory, 4 Lightning-Split Soarwoods, and 22 Funerary Tokens.

Being improved to more. We could use luck bonuses, minor slayers or even minor resists (like resist 10 or even 20) in certain items. That would probably make named items more interesting as we would have the ability to customize them.

Also, would improve the economy of the server, as these collectables that are neglected would gain economic value.

Well, that my proposition .

Borror0
01-14-2010, 07:24 AM
I would like to see the attuning rituals :
In other DIKU-styled games, the numbers are huge. For example, by the time you'll reach end game in WoW, damage per hit for both NPCs and PCs will be of a few thousands. Meanwhile, in DDO, we have not yet broke 100 on a normal hit. Additionally, DIKU-style defensive stats progress slowly to the point where obtaining a new item will only improve your performance by 0.5%. Meanwhile, DDO uses a d20 system where a mere +1 bonus can range anywhere between a +0% bonus to +100% bonus and where the smallest improvement greater than zero is around 5%.

All of this makes item design tougher in DDO as a small bonus can result in a much larger change. Even if you allow players to only improve their gear a little in each item slot, you might end up with a difference of power by the end of it. Allowing players to "customize" (read: improve) their gear with crafting, you'll end up increasing the scale of the problem (and thus making it even harder to keep a semblance of control).

This is why "crafting", in DDO, isn't particularly good design.

TL;DR: I don't like it. ;)

Letrii
01-14-2010, 08:17 AM
Diku?

Grr, why won't it let me use all caps for that word?

Borror0
01-14-2010, 08:19 AM
Diku?
Yes, Diku. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Diku) ;)

Grr, why won't it let me use all caps for that word?
The forums have "no shouting enabled" which prevents a post to be written in all caps.

marcosoneghett
01-14-2010, 11:20 AM
By diku he meant hack and slash types of games, if i am correct.

Aesop
01-14-2010, 05:32 PM
I believe you made a typo there. Corrected it for you. ;)

I'm trying to understand which path you're for, here, Aesop. From what I can understand, your goal is to make of DDO a sort of Diablo II-like character design where the difference in survivability and defensive capacities are there but not enough to really lead to DPS or tank builds.

Basically, the design could be described as "We are all DPS builds." Is that correct?

Not quite... however there is no real use for a S&B tank type character because he gives up too much for very little "extra" defense. Even with the PrEs he loses DPS for Defense that doesn't matter in the massive majority of the quests.


This game has been broken down to DPS challenge with intermittent combination locks.

Crowd Control has gotten progressively weaker while DPS numbers have increased. Tactics have taken a back seat to formulaic encounters where once you have the sequence down nothing changes. Now we have stand in x position and swing as hard and fast as you can while someone else heals you and another guy tries to figure out the right combiination of clicks to activate the special weapon against evil.

The S&B Combat style is sadly underpowered in both Defensive and offensive aspects at the higher levels. Giving 2 classes a shiny PrE each that bring them almost upto par defensively with builds that far exceed them offensively doesn't fix the problem ... it only almost hides it... but not quite

Aesop

Borror0
01-14-2010, 06:52 PM
Not quite... however there is no real use for a S&B tank type character because he gives up too much for very little "extra" defense.
By putting the word "tank" in your answer, you're explicitly saying no to my answer (you can' tank in Diablo II).

If you want S&B tanking to matter, you should first focus you energy elsewhere:

Making the game harder
Better aggro tools

The first one is pretty straightforward: if tanks have lower DPS, then it means they slow everyone down. If that's the case, it'll be very hard to justify bringing a tank in a quest. Just like it's hard to group in solo-friendly MMOs because soloing is usually more XP-efficient, tanking would not be getting more play because it's less XP- or loot-efficient

The second one might not be obvious because the tanking tools in DDO are overpowered. However, I don't mean better as in more powerful but rather as in better designed. Such tools should leave place for skills to matter rather than being a question of having enough DPS for hate generation to hold aggro or having an Intimidate score high enough to hold the boss' aggro on a 1. Short of that, tanking would be a fairly brainless role and not a particularly fun one.

This game has been broken down to DPS challenge with intermittent combination locks.
Exactly. Remember how much we would get our ass handed over to us back in Module 3 if we didn't have any crowd control?