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View Full Version : Build request: a UNIQUE multiclass.



giveuptg
01-11-2010, 02:51 PM
EDITED: Scroll down for a tentative build!

I've been in pursuit of a MC character that's really unique and fun to play, but isn't going to be gimpy or terrible at high levels.

I have a Sorc/Bard and a Bard/Ranger, and while both are fun, I'm sort of searching for something that'll just make people scratch their heads when they first see it.

I saw a few builds for Paladin/Rogue, Favored Soul/Rogue, and FvS/Pal/Rog that were pretty interesting.

I do primarily like being a melee, but I'd like to involve something with mana. Just feels weird/boring to me to play a character that can't cast at all.

Anyone have any recommendations? Suggestions? Feel free to get as crazy as you like; I'm pretty good at figuring out the strengths and faults of any given build.

Talon_Moonshadow
01-11-2010, 02:55 PM
But if I tell you, it won't be unique. :D

Gratan
01-11-2010, 03:00 PM
I've been in pursuit of a MC character that's really unique and fun to play, but isn't going to be gimpy or terrible at high levels.

I have a Sorc/Bard and a Bard/Ranger, and while both are fun, I'm sort of searching for something that'll just make people scratch their heads when they first see it.

I saw a few builds for Paladin/Rogue, Favored Soul/Rogue, and FvS/Pal/Rog that were pretty interesting.

I do primarily like being a melee, but I'd like to involve something with mana. Just feels weird/boring to me to play a character that can't cast at all.

Anyone have any recommendations? Suggestions? Feel free to get as crazy as you like; I'm pretty good at figuring out the strengths and faults of any given build.
Well i have a halfling monk12/wizzy7/rog1 I play that is a ton of fun. Self buffing, self healing intimitank with firewalls.

Kriogen
01-11-2010, 04:42 PM
WF, kungfu with fireballs, Monk12/Wizard8.

Elf, shaman, Cleric12/Wizard6/Monk2.

Dwarf, really likes trees, Ranger12/Paladin7/Rogue1.

Drow, the holy one that knows kungfu, Paladin14/Monk6.

Therigar
01-11-2010, 04:58 PM
There's this joke --

You know how to catch a unique rabbit? You neak up on it!

You know how to catch a tame rabbit? The tame way.

So....

If you want a unique multiclass you'll need to.... :D

Therigar
01-11-2010, 05:17 PM
I've been in pursuit of a MC character that's really unique and fun to play, but isn't going to be gimpy or terrible at high levels.

I have a Sorc/Bard and a Bard/Ranger, and while both are fun, I'm sort of searching for something that'll just make people scratch their heads when they first see it.

I saw a few builds for Paladin/Rogue, Favored Soul/Rogue, and FvS/Pal/Rog that were pretty interesting.

I do primarily like being a melee, but I'd like to involve something with mana. Just feels weird/boring to me to play a character that can't cast at all.

Anyone have any recommendations? Suggestions? Feel free to get as crazy as you like; I'm pretty good at figuring out the strengths and faults of any given build.

Alright, sorry about the previous post. ;)

Something that melees, involves mana and isn't common (I'm not sure you can find something genuinely unique, so I'm broadening it to uncommon instead).

Well, that seems to leave out all the ranger/paladin combos. I'm thinking it also leaves out the monk combos since people in the know have been running those for a while now. And Warchanter or pseudo-Warchanter seems equally out. I'd also eliminate battleclerics as there is just about every variety of this concept that we can imagine.

What I would do is put together classes that don't usually go together. I'm thinking cleric/wizard or Favored Soul/sorcerer. Then toss in a melee capable class. Rogue, fighter, barbarian all fit. Paladin is synergetic with FvS/sorc but I'm trying to avoid paladin splashes. Monk is the same with cleric/wizard but the same thing applies.

What do you want from the caster side of the house? Wall of Fire from the arcane, Blade Barrier from the divine. Probably some instakill stuff as well. If you do that there isn't much room for a third class.

Cleric 11/Wizard 7 leaves the most flexibility for a third class. I'd probably go with Rogue 2 for the synergy with Wizard, skill points and evasion or Monk 2 for the synergy with Cleric, extra feats and evasion.

Monk 2 actually seems better for a variety of reasons.

Silverhilt-2
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Max strength WF 12 Fighter for Kensai, 6 Cleric for Bladesworn, 2 Barb for Rage...

Sounds pretty unique and fun to me :p

WeaselKing
01-11-2010, 05:23 PM
Halfling 12 Barb/6 Bard/2 Monk Greatcrossbow user.

Impaqt
01-11-2010, 05:24 PM
At this point in the game, anything you come up with thats "Unique" would be pretty gimped.

like a 14Sorc/6Bard. Unique? Yes.. End game Feesable? No, Not really....

Now, If you mean Unusual rather than Unique, Try out a Battle Mage. Several variants around the forums, but my Current build is a 12Wiz/6Fighter/2Monk. Lots of fun to play.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 05:01 AM
Thanks for all the replies, guys. Much appreciated.

I'm actually okay with Paladin splashes, as Paladin is arguably my favorite class in the game. Loads of fun to play, great saves, fun equipment, and still a bit of spellcasting ability. Love 'em.

I am trying to avoid builds that utilize Monk/FvS/Warforged, as I'm F2P and haven't bought those yet.

I do, however, own 32-point builds. (I'd probably buy 1/2/3 of the 3 if a really cool build came along.)

I'm leaning slightly more toward Divine casters, as far as spellcasting goes. This is why I'd probably buy Favored Soul before anything else.

I sort of dislike Warforged and their subpar ability to be healed. I really like playing Human characters.

I plan on playing my current character to 1000 favor to get Veteran, so I don't have to buy it. I've rerolled so many times, I just can't tolerate those first 4 levels again. Currently at about 750 favor, so it should only take me another week or so.

Aesop
01-12-2010, 05:20 AM
Max strength WF 12 Fighter for Kensai, 6 Cleric for Bladesworn, 2 Barb for Rage...

Sounds pretty unique and fun to me :p

I like it

Though I may be tempted to make it FvS instead of Cleric

Aesop

Therigar
01-12-2010, 12:32 PM
Thanks for all the replies, guys. Much appreciated.

I'm actually okay with Paladin splashes, as Paladin is arguably my favorite class in the game.

<snip>

I really like playing Human characters.

Assuming that you put reasonable build points into CHA and WIS a 15/3/2 Favored Soul/Paladin/Monk could prove interesting. Save bonus from the paladin levels, evasion and AC boost from the monk levels. You miss out on L8 & L9 spells but if you are primarily melee oriented it isn't so bad. Sort of a battlecleric build. Just be careful of group expectations regarding healing.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 12:34 PM
FvS/Pal/Mnk could be interesting. Actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Of course, buying both Favored Soul and Monk will be costly. Ugh!

Anyone else have anything outrageous to throw into the ring?

Runaway
01-12-2010, 01:26 PM
When I was trying to think up a new build that had not been done a thousand times before, the most "outrageous" one that I considered rolling was ranger6/rogue7/monk7. Which isn't really that unique, since those are classic stopping levels for a multiclass with one of those 3 classes.

Your best bet for a unique multiclass will probably be to combine some classic stopping levels of different classes together in an unusual combination. That way you will be unique, but also still very viable.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 02:11 PM
I think that's the best tip, Runaway. Just combine a few classic stopping levels and balance stat points as best as possible.

The question now is what classes to combine!

FunkyGoose
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Monk 3 would go well with a caster class (-25 sp cost), so, id suggest (not really planned it out, but may work), something like a Cleric 11/Monk 3/Ranger 6, TWF kama damage, swapping to bows when needed, good wis score, dex based attack, evasion, decent ac/saves, 6th level cleric spells... etc... this will probably be a fun build, if not very good at endgameland
If you really want something that hasnt been tried before, you could try something like a sorc/pally/monk type build

...So sayeth the Funk...

Therigar
01-12-2010, 02:30 PM
FvS/Pal/Mnk could be interesting. Actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Of course, buying both Favored Soul and Monk will be costly. Ugh!

Anyone else have anything outrageous to throw into the ring?

Replace FvS with Cleric and Monk with Rogue.

Cleric will get you slightly more in spell selection but with fewer spell points*. Rogue gets you the same evasion that comes with Monk. You lose out on the Monk boost to AC. But, you are not restricted to no armor and no shield as you would be with Monk so can wear light armor (Mithral Breastplate) and still be fairly well off AC wise.

*You might have nearly as many SP with a cleric depending on actual stat scores.

Here is a rough shot at a 32 point human Cleric/Paladin/Rogue. Note that there are no real rogue skills. I did not finish bumping skills or rounding out enhancements.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cleric Multiclass
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 1153
BAB: 15\15\20\25
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 20
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 12
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 27
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 5
Bluff 6 8
Concentration 1 12
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal 3 8
Hide 7 10
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 4 7
Listen 3 8
Move Silently 7 10
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 7 13
Swim 4 5
Tumble 7 9
Use Magic Device 6 18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 03:19 PM
Therigar, I love it. Love it!

I'm wondering what the advantage to going Pally 3 and Rogue 2 INSTEAD of Pally 2 and Rogue 3 is.

I've heard the advantage to Pally 3 is minimal, as their good bonuses come from level 2, and I know Rogue's evasion comes from level 2.

Aesop
01-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Therigar, I love it. Love it!

I'm wondering what the advantage to going Pally 3 and Rogue 2 INSTEAD of Pally 2 and Rogue 3 is.

I've heard the advantage to Pally 3 is minimal, as their good bonuses come from level 2, and I know Rogue's evasion comes from level 2.

Immunity to Fear and Disease come at Pally 3

at the worst it frees up a slot

Aesop

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 04:15 PM
Immunity to Fear and Disease come at Pally 3

at the worst it frees up a slot

Aesop

Ahh, I thought those came at Pally 2, that makes more sense then.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Alright, so here are my thoughts on stat distribution and whatnot for the 15 Cleric/2 Rogue/3 Paladin:

- Wisdom is required for the spellcasting of both Cleric and Pally. I know Paladins' mana pool is directly derived from this. I assume Cleric's is as well?

- If the above is true, CHA isn't really NECESSARY with this build, aside from a handful of Paladin skills, including Smite Evil/Lay on Hands amounts, and Divine Grace's saving throw bonus. Neither Rogue nor Cleric will use it at all (aside from Cleric's Turn Undead, which I could care less about unless someone provides a compelling argument).

- What would be the best weapon option? I assume I'll go high DEX and take Weapon Finesse.

This leaves my important skills being DEX and WIS, followed by CHA and CON, followed by STR?

I'd love some more criticism on the build. I would have loved to work in Rogue trap/lock skills, but I just don't think I have the stat points to contribute to INT, even with 32-point builds unlocked. (I do plan on raising STR slightly above 10, as I'd like to maintain somewhat decent melee damage.)

I've never played a rogue, so I'd love some basics on how their melee works. Is their damage based on DEX at all, or should I allocate slightly more to STR?

poonce
01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Dont go below 12 Str even on a Finess build. 12 Con is pretty average for most builds.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 05:31 PM
Yeah, I was planning on 12 Str; 10 just seems a little questionable. I wanna do SOME damage!

Is it worth dropping the points for 18 Dex, or is 16 workable?

Calebro
01-12-2010, 05:40 PM
If you really want something that hasnt been tried before, you could try something like a sorc/pally/monk type build

...So sayeth the Funk...

I have a toon in the leveling process with my secondary account. 2pally/6monk/12sorc (currently 2/3/5) WF battle mage(ish) - 2hf q-staff specced self healer/buffer.
GREAT fun to solo. Have to create my own LFM when I feel like grouping.
Guildies are understanding, pugs aren't.

giveuptg
01-12-2010, 05:43 PM
I have a toon in the leveling process with my secondary account. 2pally/6monk/12sorc (currently 2/3/5) WF battle mage(ish) - 2hf q-staff specced self healer/buffer.
GREAT fun to solo. Have to create my own LFM when I feel like grouping.
Guildies are understanding, pugs aren't.

I've had some pretty ridiculous builds and have never had too much trouble finding PUGs. I'm not overly worried about that aspect. I see where you're coming from, though!

Calebro
01-12-2010, 05:50 PM
I also have a similar concept in mind for a 6monk/3rogue/11wiz
Same basic concept, slightly lower saves, full trap skills and umd
Not sure if I actually want to roll him though....

*edit*
Now that I've found it, that build is here.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(6 Monk \ 3 Rogue \ 11 Wizard)
Hit Points: 314
Spell Points: 825
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 14
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 22
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 14 18
Wisdom 12 16
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 5 25
Diplomacy -2 -1
Disable Device 6 27
Haggle -2 -1
Heal 1 3
Hide 5 6
Intimidate -2 -1
Jump 6 10
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 6 7
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 4
Search 6 27
Spot 5 7
Swim 2 6
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 2 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I


Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Warforged Tactics II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation II


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force II


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Wizard Force Manipulation III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+9)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Force III
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+7)
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 12:09 AM
Calebro,

Not a bad build. Kind of an interesting idea. I personally wouldn't go primarily caster just because the BAB deficit would be too large for my tastes.

Another question for the masses: Would it be worth swapping the Cleric 15 with FvS 15? Why or why not?

Calebro
01-13-2010, 12:17 AM
It would be a fun build to solo, but it wouldn't work well in a group.
The BAB would be countered with Divine Power clickies, just like my battle sorc does.

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 01:53 AM
I ended up splurging for Favored Soul, so here's something really quick I threw together:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Favored Soul)
Hit Points: 224
Spell Points: 1203
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 21
Will: 15

Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 12
Dexterity 18
Constitution 12
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 10
Charisma 14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Sovereign Host


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Favored Soul)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity




Thoughts on the starting stats and feats?

I just cranked it together really quickly without much emphasis on the progression of feats. If there's a better order in which to take them, by all means, share your thoughts.

I'd really like to capitalize on Paladin's and FvS's great Saves, so any additional feats or alterations to the stats to make them happen would be appreciated. (Keep in mind this export above does not include any Enhancements or items.)

It might be more logical to drop Force of Personality for a Metamagic feat that emphasizes on better healing or buffs, also.

Runaway
01-13-2010, 07:34 AM
Level 15 cleric gets level 8 spells, a level 15 fvs doesn't. With FvS I'd consider going FvS16/paladin2/rogue2.


With fvs15/paladin3/rogue2 other people will consider you to be a Favored Soul with a splash of something else. You need to ask yourself what your splash allows you to do better than what a pure can do. And if the end equation is worth it to you.

In your case the rogue would allow you to max umd and/or maybe disable some traps. Divine grace will give you superb saves and evasion will allow you to take the full benefit of it. But divine grace could also be considered as overkill. I also don't think Force of Personality stacks with Divine Grace.

Being only a lvl15 fvs means you can only cast level 7 spells. Lower DC, lower spell penetration, lower spellpoints, less level 6 and 7 spells choices. And you miss out on the absolutely superb level 20 fvs feat and other level15+ goodies.

A level 15 FvS is a worse healer and offensive caster than a 20 FvS (obviously :)). I don't think you gain extra killing power by splashing, I'd actually say that you lost some? Are umd and +saves and some minor extras enough justifucation for losing that? I don't think so myself.


Now to go on to your build:
With 10 wisdom and only level 15 FvS you will have very bad offensive casting abilities. This could be justified by making a strong melee'er who relies on his Divine self for buffs+heals.
However, with 12 starting strength and without some FvS enhancements I think you actually lose out on offence compared to a pure FvS.
With 18 starting dexterity, but without a monk splash (and higher starting wisdom), you won't be able to get "enough" AC against many mobs. 14 dexterity as a human or 16 as elf/halfling would probably be more cost effective. (and then not going finesse based)
A starting charisma of 14 looks like too much to me. You need 17 to cast level 7 spells. Even when counting some negative levels, you can way overshoot that with 14 starting charisma.

You are also missing some vital feats for your Favored Soul part (quickened for instance or a metamagic to improve your heals) and you take extend at a very late level, while it has the biggest impact at lower casting levels.

Favored Souls of drow, elf or warforged races get some bonuses to their racial weapons (attack and damage). Humans only get to pick Sovereign Host, which only boosts the underperforming (non-finessable) longswords.

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 10:39 AM
Hey Runaway,

Thanks a bunch for all the input. Here's some of my thoughts on what you responded to:

1.) I didn't realize Clerics got level 8 spells at 15 and FvS don't. That makes a huge difference for me. I think that alone is worth keeping the Cleric side instead of Favored Soul.

2.) I'm really interested in the 3 Paladin for the additional immunities. I'd prefer not to drop it to 2 Paladin.

3.) I'm not concerned about offensive spells. I intend on being pretty much entirely melee as far as damage-dealing goes. Maybe a Flamestrike or Blade Barrier or 2 if the situations really calls for it, but that's more of a supplementary damage thing for my party's sake.

4.) I'm trying to give CHA as much help as possible for Paladin saves, Smite Evil bonus, and Lay on Hands bonus. However, if I stay Cleric instead of FvS, I'll likely need a few more points of Wisdom for more mana.

So here are my new, updated questions/thoughts:

- I really feel that Weapon Finesse is going to be necessary and unavoidable. I think with 16 or 18 Dex and 12 Str (and a tome at level 3 for STR + Power Attack), that's going to be the best setup for maintaining a good Attack Bonus and still do some damage. Is this incorrect?

- Assuming I stay with the Cleric setup for level 8 spells at 15, what might be the best Wisdom/Charisma setup? You're saying to drop CHA to 12 or so, so boost Wisdom to 12 or so as well?

- Just to clarify, the only thing preventing any class from casting spellls when they gain spellcasting ability is amount of mana, correct? Like, when Paladin hit level 4, it doesn't REALLY matter what their Wisdom is, just as long as they have enough mana to cast the spell in question, correct?

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 10:47 AM
It looks like even with only 10 Wisdom, a 15clr/3pal/2rog will have over 750 mana at level 20, even without any enhancements or items.

I personally think this might be the way to go in order to keep the CHA mod as high as possible for the save bonus and Smite Evil/LoH mods.

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 11:03 AM
After reading the in-game descriptions for Smite Evil and Lay on Hands, it appears the amount actually dished out by both is mostly dependent upon your PALADIN level, not just your Charisma... So this effectively makes both of them more or less useless.

This means my Charisma definitely isn't as important as I thought it was.

Runaway
01-13-2010, 12:50 PM
@3 Lower chance to land spells also means having a harder time landing crowd control spells. Good CC is more sp efficient than keeping everyone healed through the damage. If you have a lower chance to land spells than a pure caster, it is also helpful if you compensate for it by having better survivability or more damage. I can't find that back in your build.

@4 As a buffing/healing cleric (weak CC and weak damage spells), your main goal for wisdom skill should be to get enough to cast spells. To be able to cast a spell as a caster you need your casting ability to be (10 + spell level). Abilities can debuffed. A cleric needs atleast 19 wisdom to cast level 9 spells, a FvS atleast 19 wisdom for level 9 spells. Offensive casting rolls for both clerics and favored souls are based on wisdom.
If you look up cleric enhancements, you'll find that charisma brings more advantages than just Turn Undead to clerics.


Why do you feel weapon finesse is important? 18 strength gives the same attack as a 18 finessed dexterity. 18 strength also gives +4 base damage. 2 weapon fighting isn't the end all be all of DDO. 2 handed fighting is nothing to sniff at if you want to deal damage.
If you still want 2 weapon fighting, then you can also get the required 17 dexterity by starting with 16 dexterity (that would save 6 build points) and using the ability point at level 4 on dexterity. You can also start as a halfling/elf and get the required 17 dexterity by spending only 8 skillpoints.

Wisdom for a cleric depends on what you want it to do. It is the skill that also determines your offensive casting abilities, that's why most (including I) would advice you to max it. If you don't want to cast offensively, you could start with less, but without completely neglecting it either. Clerics get significantly less spellpoints than favored souls, 750 spellpoints will slip through your hands like water.


All in all, I don't think that you're ready for a multiclass like this yet. I would first get experience on a pure character first (or a pure character with a careful 1 or 2 level splash).

Hug your multiclassing dreams for a bit, keep on reading the forums and compendium (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Category:Classes). And keep on making up new and better multiclass builds. Eventually you'll have made one that looks so good that you get the irresistable urge of playing it. Only just not yet :)

giveuptg
01-13-2010, 01:10 PM
Runaway, many thanks for all the tips. Always appreciated.

I didn't really intend on any offensive spells OR CC, though I suppose CC might be something worth looking at, or possibly balancing offensive spells with melee ability.

My reasoning for wanting Weapon Finesse primarily revolves around wanting to use Rogue skills for Hide and Move Silently, as well as maintaining great Reflex saves and a somewhat passable AC.

I feel like if I were to ditch any possibility of a workable AC, it'd be more logical to go Favored Soul for the Resistance bonus feats.

I do, of course, agree that a Strength-based character makes more sense as far as being melee-centric goes. Two-handed fighting might be even more logical if I ditch Dex altogether.

If I were to pump Strength and Wisdom, I could maintain passable melee skills and passable casting abilities.

So let me ask this, especially towards you, Runaway: What would you do as far as starting stats go?

(Also, I can't find anything on the wiki that says Clerics use CHA for anything other than Turn Undead.)

Runaway
01-13-2010, 03:14 PM
(Also, I can't find anything on the wiki that says Clerics use CHA for anything other than Turn Undead.)More charisma gives more uses of Turn Undead. Turn Undead uses can be used for Divine actions that you get through training enhancements. Divine Might, a self +damage action from the enhancements, requires certain amounts of base charisma to be learned. Divine Light is a aeo damage effect with a charisma based check. The other Divine actions don't require a base charisma, but also only work on others.

The Divine Might of level 15 (+6 damage for 1 minute for 1 use of Turn Undead) requires a base of 16 charisma. It's something to consider when you're making a cleric that is meant to melee and buff+heal.

The compendium will have all this information! ;)


I'll look at what I can think up for numbers for cleric15/paladin3/rogue2 tomorrow. I'm still not fond of that combination though :p

Runaway
01-14-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm going to be lazy and refer to something else: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223253
The melee focused cleric sounds most like what you try to do.

A level 18+ cleric with a splash of up to 2 levels would still do better than your 15 cleric levels.

hermespan
01-15-2010, 03:47 PM
Replace FvS with Cleric and Monk with Rogue.

Cleric will get you slightly more in spell selection but with fewer spell points*. Rogue gets you the same evasion that comes with Monk. You lose out on the Monk boost to AC. But, you are not restricted to no armor and no shield as you would be with Monk so can wear light armor (Mithral Breastplate) and still be fairly well off AC wise.

*You might have nearly as many SP with a cleric depending on actual stat scores.

Here is a rough shot at a 32 point human Cleric/Paladin/Rogue. Note that there are no real rogue skills. I did not finish bumping skills or rounding out enhancements.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cleric Multiclass
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 1153
BAB: 15\15\20\25
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 20
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 12
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 27
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 5
Bluff 6 8
Concentration 1 12
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal 3 8
Hide 7 10
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 4 7
Listen 3 8
Move Silently 7 10
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 7 13
Swim 4 5
Tumble 7 9
Use Magic Device 6 18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV




He'll also have a serious synergy with UMD from rogue.

hermespan
01-15-2010, 03:48 PM
Replace FvS with Cleric and Monk with Rogue.

Cleric will get you slightly more in spell selection but with fewer spell points*. Rogue gets you the same evasion that comes with Monk. You lose out on the Monk boost to AC. But, you are not restricted to no armor and no shield as you would be with Monk so can wear light armor (Mithral Breastplate) and still be fairly well off AC wise.

*You might have nearly as many SP with a cleric depending on actual stat scores.

Here is a rough shot at a 32 point human Cleric/Paladin/Rogue. Note that there are no real rogue skills. I did not finish bumping skills or rounding out enhancements.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cleric Multiclass
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 274
Spell Points: 1153
BAB: 15\15\20\25
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 20
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 12
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 27
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 5
Bluff 6 8
Concentration 1 12
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal 3 8
Hide 7 10
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 4 7
Listen 3 8
Move Silently 7 10
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 7 13
Swim 4 5
Tumble 7 9
Use Magic Device 6 18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV




He'll also have a serious synergy with UMD from rogue (which is another reason to choose rogue over monk for a FvS multiclass)

Artis_Resistance
02-08-2010, 02:38 PM
Been messing around with this idea for a couple days. 15Cleric/3Pal/2Rogue. Focuses on melee, buffs, and healing.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.18
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Cleric)
Hit Points: 234
Spell Points: 979
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 17
Will: 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 18
Dexterity 16 16
Constitution 10 10
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 18
Charisma 14 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 10
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 2 22
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 9
Heal 2 4
Hide 3 3
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 2 6
Listen 2 6
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot 2 6
Swim 2 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I