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View Full Version : Att Dev's: its to easy for kids to buy Points,



CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 10:01 AM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.

RhapsodieInBlue
01-10-2010, 10:03 AM
Signed.

Don't have kids but almost every MMO is developing parental controls.

For the time being you could have redefined their key for opening the store to something ridiculous.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 10:06 AM
People mentioned this in beta and the devs didn't comment at all. It will probably take a few parents charging back the purchases as unauthorized to make them think about it.

Either they need an optional password, or more basically, the ability for the store optionally NOT to store your credit card.

coolpenguin410
01-10-2010, 10:12 AM
There isn't an option to have your CC removed from the store? That would seem like the easiest option.

As a work around, couldn't you use the PayPal option and just have PayPal not store your info?

While I agree with the sentiment, the above should be an option first for privacy reasons.

Anderei
01-10-2010, 10:16 AM
People mentioned this in beta and the devs didn't comment at all. It will probably take a few parents charging back the purchases as unauthorized to make them think about it.


Yes, INAL, but at least from european law you should be legally be able to get your money back. I suppose the american is not much different. Kids are actually not allowed to make any trades, beside "kid-typical" stuff, like buying an ice-cream.

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 10:18 AM
There isn't an option to have your CC removed from the store? That would seem like the easiest option.

As a work around, couldn't you use the PayPal option and just have PayPal not store your info?

While I agree with the sentiment, the above should be an option first for privacy reasons.

Problem is still the same,, i keep a nice balance in my paypal and do have the cc for it and they would still have access to the store "Get more" I have contacted the bank and posted it as unauthrized. It seems once they have your card on file you can not just have it removed. I pay for my account by the year but the kids by the month (off topic" bad grades no game)

and I agree this brings up a whole other issue with privacy,

Letrii
01-10-2010, 10:18 AM
Simple solution, use a pre-paid credit card.

Not saying Turbine shouldn't do something about issue, but in absence of safeguards, you make your own.

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Simple solution, use a pre-paid credit card.

Not saying Turbine shouldn't do something about issue, but in absence of safeguards, you make your own.

As I do like that Idea, Same issue, by a Pre-Paid for X amout (25.00) pay for game - $14.00 = $11. bal. use 2x$5.00 "get points,

Dont forget the $4.50 it takes to buy said Pre-Paid CC.. Good way to controll amount

*** or just add a Password and this will fix issue for everyone.

smatt
01-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Hmm, ya it would be a good idea for parental controls no doubt... Since parents can't beat the snot out of their kids anymore like when I was a kid.. They need help :D It would be very eay to add that option to when setting up an account.

Hendrik
01-10-2010, 10:28 AM
AS AN ACCOUNT HOLDER, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL CHARGES INCURRED (INCLUDING APPLICABLE TAXES) AND ALL TRANSACTIONS MADE BY YOU AS WELL AS ANY THIRD PARTY (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS) WHO USES YOUR ACCOUNT (WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION).

Turbine, in its sole and absolute discretion, may make it possible for you to use to a credit, charge or debit card, prepaid game card, or online payment service, (each referred to herein as “Payment Method”) for your subscription(s) and/or transaction(s) from time to time. Turbine does sell products intended for people ages 13 and up, but it sells them only to adults who can purchase with a permitted Payment Method. IF YOU ARE UNDER OVER 13 BUT UNDER 18, YOU MAY USE THE GAME ONLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF A PARENT OR GUARDIAN.


Your choices seem to be;

A. FtP
B. Non - CC Payment Method ie, pre-paid cards.
C. Teach your kids NOT to use the store and/or be involved with game play as per EULA.

Nezichiend
01-10-2010, 10:32 AM
How old are your kids?

They must be old enough to understand: If you use the store without asking me, I will cancel your account.

Its that simple, there should be a password on it but really, you can't tell your kids no?

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 10:38 AM
* Issue 1. The DDO Store "Get More" came after the fact that some of us had aggreed to these terms, so without making us Agree to them again and or after the fact in some states make them a void or modified contract without agreement. But I didn't start this post to argue my point . I just would like a Fix or add on to help protect there customers who have been with them from day 1



AS AN ACCOUNT HOLDER, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL CHARGES INCURRED (INCLUDING APPLICABLE TAXES) AND ALL TRANSACTIONS MADE BY YOU AS WELL AS ANY THIRD PARTY (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS) WHO USES YOUR ACCOUNT (WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION).

Turbine, in its sole and absolute discretion, may make it possible for you to use to a credit, charge or debit card, prepaid game card, or online payment service, (each referred to herein as “Payment Method”) for your subscription(s) and/or transaction(s) from time to time. Turbine does sell products intended for people ages 13 and up, but it sells them only to adults who can purchase with a permitted Payment Method. IF YOU ARE UNDER OVER 13 BUT UNDER 18, YOU MAY USE THE GAME ONLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF A PARENT OR GUARDIAN.


Your choices seem to be;

A. FtP
B. Non - CC Payment Method ie, pre-paid cards.
C. Teach your kids NOT to use the store and/or be involved with game play as per EULA.

Angelus_dead
01-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Simple solution, use a pre-paid credit card.
No, that is not at all simple. Have you tried to use a pre-paid card? It's a lot of work! I hope you know what a 5009 error is, because I don't. As near as I can figure, Turbine doesn't like to accept subscriptions from a card with a limited cash value.


AS AN ACCOUNT HOLDER, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL CHARGES INCURRED (INCLUDING APPLICABLE TAXES) AND ALL TRANSACTIONS MADE BY YOU AS WELL AS ANY THIRD PARTY (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS) WHO USES YOUR ACCOUNT (WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION).
This is circular logic, which is invalid. The fact that Turbine currently uses those terms does absolutely nothing to support the idea that they should be using those terms.

The reality is that it is nearly perverse for an online merchant to lack an option to blank-out the stored password.

PS. Have you ever met a child? Do you know what a dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex is?

mistahnice
01-10-2010, 10:55 AM
discipline your kids, this isn't turbine's problem.

Missing_Minds
01-10-2010, 11:01 AM
* Issue 1. The DDO Store "Get More" came after the fact that some of us had aggreed to these terms, so without making us Agree to them again and or after the fact in some states make them a void or modified contract without agreement. But I didn't start this post to argue my point . I just would like a Fix or add on to help protect there customers who have been with them from day 1

I'm willing to bet if you read through it more you'll find where it will reto actively nail you still.

However, contrary to what Lorien posted, I do remember one of the workers in Tech Service making the comment that such a suggestion would be reported back.

Now I can think of other ways of raising a huge stink that would probably get the attention of the Paiz, hence get such implemented, but I'm not going to suggest it over open forums.

Also, do understand I'm not against your idea either. I'm for it. Whenever real life money is concerned, such should be verified first.

Angelus_dead
01-10-2010, 11:02 AM
discipline your kids, this isn't turbine's problem.
You are saying that businesses shouldn't care about customer satisfaction.

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 11:03 AM
How old are your kids?

They must be old enough to understand: If you use the store without asking me, I will cancel your account.

Its that simple, there should be a password on it but really, you can't tell your kids no?

They are of an apporved age for the game. but they are not adults.

They were told no and have had there accounts closed, but the are KIDS....

mistahnice
01-10-2010, 11:05 AM
You are saying that businesses shouldn't care about customer satisfaction.

no, i'm saying that the op should teach their kids a lesson about frugality and responsibility. on the other hand, i frankly don't feel children should be exposed to any mmorpg. you're just asking for trouble when you hand them a game they can never win.

Shassa
01-10-2010, 11:08 AM
/signed

Hey, I agree that it is up to us as parents to police our kids, and I think CavernDragon would heartily agree as well. But the more tools to help us enforce the rules, the better. As all parents know, we can be as attentive as we want but kids will be kids sometimes.

I don't know if this could work, but how about making the "Get More" button a password-activated toggle? That would mean that by default, you wouldn't have to bother with a password, therefore the process of getting more points is easy for those of us without security issues. But if a parent wanted to, they could put a password in to toggle it off, and the only way to turn it back on is with the same password.

Anyway, good luck to you CD, it's great that you have a gaming household like I do. Although my daughters don't play online much, aside from Maple Story or Poptropica. :)

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 11:08 AM
AS AN ACCOUNT HOLDER, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL CHARGES INCURRED (INCLUDING APPLICABLE TAXES) AND ALL TRANSACTIONS MADE BY YOU AS WELL AS ANY THIRD PARTY (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS) WHO USES YOUR ACCOUNT (WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION).

Turbine, in its sole and absolute discretion, may make it possible for you to use to a credit, charge or debit card, prepaid game card, or online payment service, (each referred to herein as “Payment Method”) for your subscription(s) and/or transaction(s) from time to time. Turbine does sell products intended for people ages 13 and up, but it sells them only to adults who can purchase with a permitted Payment Method. IF YOU ARE UNDER OVER 13 BUT UNDER 18, YOU MAY USE THE GAME ONLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF A PARENT OR GUARDIAN.


Your choices seem to be;

A. FtP
B. Non - CC Payment Method ie, pre-paid cards.
C. Teach your kids NOT to use the store and/or be involved with game play as per EULA.

Charges made by a minor on a credit card are not enforcable. In many states and provinces "all charges" contracts are also unenforcable even though mechants do use them because most of the time the customer agrees. If you read the merchant agreement and the law in most areas it states concent requires a date or date range, a specific amount, and a deliberate consent. Agreeing to $15/month on or around the 9th of every month until stopped with 30 days notice is enforcable. Agreeing to "whatever amount we charge when we charge it" is generally not enforcable.

As a credit card mechant with a similar statement on my website I can tell you the charge is unenforceable if the cardholder charges it back. Of course Turbine will then terminate your account, nothing forces them to deal with you. Its not a great way to deal with customers when two very simple solutions (password control options or option not to store credit card) exist on pretty much any other modern internet commerce site.

Zippo
01-10-2010, 11:08 AM
There isn't an option to have your CC removed from the store? That would seem like the easiest option.

As a work around, couldn't you use the PayPal option and just have PayPal not store your info?

While I agree with the sentiment, the above should be an option first for privacy reasons.

As for right now this does seem like the most viable work around. I agree though that other measures need to be taken on Turbines part. Especially in this time when the economy is down and some people are having a hard time even justifying $15 a month for a sub. Fortunately the only risk I have is my own clicking on the button so no one to blame but myself but for others this can be a very real issue.

/signed

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 11:08 AM
discipline your kids, this isn't turbine's problem.

Already done, there accounts have been closed. TV band, Other then this they are very good kids with no others issues, they do good in school, Help others. and I dont think in any of my posts said it was turbine's problem, I asked for a fix to help every parient who would like to reward there kids for being GOOD with a game played with there father... :p

Angelus_dead
01-10-2010, 11:09 AM
They were told no and have had there accounts closed, but the are KIDS....
In case anyone is unfamiliar with the mentality of a child, they can read about the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsolateral_prefrontal_cortex). Humans with an undeveloped DLPC lack self control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_control).

Impaqt
01-10-2010, 11:10 AM
While I agree that some sort of account controls should be in the game(Along with a monthly accounting and TP Statement of ALL tranactions) I believe that if your kids cannot respect you when you say "Do not buy points" they proboly arent responsible or respectful enough to play DDo unsupervised.

Kreaper
01-10-2010, 11:12 AM
They are worse than kids. They are teenagers.

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 11:13 AM
While I agree that some sort of account controls should be in the game(Along with a monthly accounting and TP Statement of ALL tranactions) I believe that if your kids cannot respect you when you say "Do not buy points" they proboly arent responsible or respectful enough to play DDo unsupervised.

Agreed, and so forth Account Close... Do the crime do the time.

Still would be nice to have a PW on the Get more for others.

Zippo
01-10-2010, 11:15 AM
They are worse than kids. They are teenagers.

HEH! That made me laugh and cry at the same time. I can laugh now but in just a couple of years my oldest will be a teenager and your point worries me.

CavernDragon
01-10-2010, 11:17 AM
They are worse than kids. They are teenagers.

+1 Rep for that... ROFL.. and soooooo True.

Xtream
01-10-2010, 11:20 AM
HEH! That made me laugh and cry at the same time. I can laugh now but in just a couple of years my oldest will be a teenager and your point worries me.

Be afraid ... very afraid.

X

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 11:20 AM
While I agree that some sort of account controls should be in the game(Along with a monthly accounting and TP Statement of ALL tranactions) I believe that if your kids cannot respect you when you say "Do not buy points" they proboly arent responsible or respectful enough to play DDo unsupervised.

That's like saying if you don't trust your employees you shouldn't have them on staff and thus don't need controls. Controls are put in place because it helps people resist temptation. As has already been mentioned, kids have build it weaknesses developmentally, it makes sense to allow some basic controls when they are technically extremely easy to put in place.

Mellifera
01-10-2010, 11:22 AM
/signed

I really disliked the fact that the store just automatically uses my account's on file cc. Bare minimum it should require a little more input from the user than a mouse click, otherwise (as the OP found out the hard way) its just asking for abuse.

Impaqt
01-10-2010, 11:27 AM
That's like saying if you don't trust your employees you shouldn't have them on staff and thus don't need controls. Controls are put in place because it helps people resist temptation. As has already been mentioned, kids have build it weaknesses developmentally, it makes sense to allow some basic controls when they are technically extremely easy to put in place.

You hire people you dont trust?

Blackbird
01-10-2010, 11:29 AM
Game cards may be your best bet or the method whereby you can pay for someone else's account by gift. While a password may be an easy fix, it is very narrow in that it will only serve a small part of the populace and may annoy others and cut down on impulse sales of adults (which is probably profitable). It may be more inconvenient for you to buy game cards or go through the gifting process but it may be your only choice if you want your kids to be VIP but can't trust them not to buy points.

However, if they know you will for sure find out and they will be punished you may find they will be able to resist.

Ereshkigal
01-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Turbine -- If you do add more hoops and hurdles for people to jump thru in order to use the DDO store, please make them an option that you can turn off. I like the ability to use the DDO store quickly and with few clicks, and I don't want that time increased forcibly.

Ideally for situations like these it would be nice to have a "satellite account" that is tied to the parent account. The satellite accounts would not be able to manage anything to do with real money but the parent account would be able to ( thru account management ) purchase ddo points, and pay monthly subscriptions for all of the satellite accounts as well as the parent account.

But, I'm sure Turbine will, out of necessity, look at this from the standpoint where they compare the cost of making such changes vs the cost of just doing damage control on the (few?) instances where there are problems to manage.

Ereshkigal
01-10-2010, 11:52 AM
You hire people you dont trust?


You've never been betrayed by someone you trusted?

Tumarek
01-10-2010, 11:58 AM
If youre browser (or turbines in this case) is setup not to save paypals password you have to enter it every time you want points. Works like this for me and would solve your problem.

Failedlegend
01-10-2010, 12:02 PM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.

Although it would be a good idea for turbine to add parental controls it really shouldn't have too this game which IIRC is rated either T or M is meant for an older audience and I'm sorry but its not Turbine's responsibility to control your kids..maybe you could...oh I dunno TEACH THEM!!! and if their too young to learn their too young to play this game IMHO.

Note: The world has become a giant wuss factory and from seeing what my sister has to go through to try and discipline her younger kids...I swear she has to read a novel of new things she cant do every week so while I do understand that it is difficult to deal with kids my two older nephews (11 & 13) listen to her just fine and they also play MMOs but the younger ones are always supervised while playing (although their more into the Wii they do play Ruinscape).

Impaqt
01-10-2010, 12:02 PM
You've never been betrayed by someone you trusted?
Irrelevant.

If you dont trust someone, You should NOT hire them.

GeneralDiomedes
01-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Irrelevant.

If you dont trust someone, You should NOT hire them.

It's not irrelevant. The fact is, a large percentage of the people in this world will do something if they think they can get away with it. Controls exist so work can get done without a high degree of turnover.

Aspenor
01-10-2010, 12:26 PM
AS AN ACCOUNT HOLDER, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL CHARGES INCURRED (INCLUDING APPLICABLE TAXES) AND ALL TRANSACTIONS MADE BY YOU AS WELL AS ANY THIRD PARTY (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, YOUR FAMILY OR FRIENDS) WHO USES YOUR ACCOUNT (WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR AUTHORIZATION).

Turbine, in its sole and absolute discretion, may make it possible for you to use to a credit, charge or debit card, prepaid game card, or online payment service, (each referred to herein as “Payment Method”) for your subscription(s) and/or transaction(s) from time to time. Turbine does sell products intended for people ages 13 and up, but it sells them only to adults who can purchase with a permitted Payment Method. IF YOU ARE UNDER OVER 13 BUT UNDER 18, YOU MAY USE THE GAME ONLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF A PARENT OR GUARDIAN.

Just because Turbine put these statements in an agreement does not mean they are enforceable.

It also does not mean that the OP is off-base. He is 100% correct and any statement otherwise shows ignorance about credit cards, credit card companies, enforceability and children's thought processes.

Missing_Minds
01-10-2010, 12:33 PM
The op isn't asking for legalese. He's not saying he's not responsible. He's not saying his kids are angels.

He's asking for some account control tools to HELP safeguard against unwanted charges. FOCUS here and stop the tangents already. Such tools go beyond what a child may or may not do.

cupajoe
01-10-2010, 12:36 PM
Irrelevant.

If you dont trust someone, You should NOT hire them.

I hire people. I try to hire trustworthy people, but often you don't know just how trustworthy someone is until they have worked for you for a while. I mean you try but what is your "test" for trustworthiness? I guess my point is that the longer someone has worked for you the better a judge of their character you are.

Sorry to nitpick but this struck a cord with me.

Favis
01-10-2010, 01:30 PM
/signed
I really disliked the fact that the store just automatically uses my account's on file cc. Bare minimum it should require a little more input from the user than a mouse click, otherwise (as the OP found out the hard way) its just asking for abuse.
also /signed

Shassa
01-10-2010, 01:46 PM
The op isn't asking for legalese. He's not saying he's not responsible. He's not saying his kids are angels.

He's asking for some account control tools to HELP safeguard against unwanted charges. FOCUS here and stop the tangents already. Such tools go beyond what a child may or may not do.

+1 and I'd like to say again, those who think that they can supervise their children into acting responsibly 100% of the time do not have experience in this matter.

Clay
01-10-2010, 01:48 PM
To the people pointing fingers at the OP's kids as being undisciplined or not fit for DDO. Get over yourselves. Are you really so old that your forget being kids? It IS possible to be a "good kid" and break a rule.

The OP is not ranting, blaming Turbine or posting inappropriately. Rather he is making a reasonable request. Do you really get such a kick out of seeing your words on the screen? Take a pill. Go read a book, watch TV or have a nap--it is obvious you are taking your role as forum police a little too seriously.

Hendrik
01-10-2010, 02:04 PM
No, that is not at all simple. Have you tried to use a pre-paid card? It's a lot of work! I hope you know what a 5009 error is, because I don't. As near as I can figure, Turbine doesn't like to accept subscriptions from a card with a limited cash value.


This is circular logic, which is invalid. The fact that Turbine currently uses those terms does absolutely nothing to support the idea that they should be using those terms.

The reality is that it is nearly perverse for an online merchant to lack an option to blank-out the stored password.

PS. Have you ever met a child? Do you know what a dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex is?

Don't like the EULA, complain to them.

Well, the game is for adults, those over 18. The ones that are legally able to make there own decisions. Clearly worded they are not responsible for someone's minor children, the parent/guardian is.

As an adult/parent, I would be a little smarter to allow access to an online gaming store to a child without supervision.

Kreaper
01-10-2010, 02:05 PM
To the people pointing fingers at the OP's kids as being undisciplined or not fit for DDO. Get over yourselves. Are you really so old that your forget being kids? It IS possible to be a "good kid" and break a rule.


Seriously guys, no child is perfect. You can raise them to be good people, but you can't make their choices for them. Kids will be kids and teens will be the cause of gray hair and pattern baldness. That's just the way it is. You know, there IS a reason the Bible mentions the birth of Jesus and then skips to his adulthood. NO child is perfect. ;)

One more thing, go back and read Shassa's last post again.

Kreaper
01-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, the game is for adults, those over 18.


No, the game is rated for teens.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 02:08 PM
You hire people you dont trust?

No. But I don't trust anyone I hire fully. I am a Certified Fraud Examiner, a Certified Internal Auditor, and a bunch of other alphabet soup. I spent a number of years designing and monitoring controls and I also spend several years investigating "trusted" employees who in a moment of weakness acted in the absence of controls. That includes having people arrested and appearing as an expert witness in court. In my experience you are much more likely to have someone you trust steal from you because that's when you let your guard down. I can't recall a single fraud case I investigated where their manager wasn't shocked and in disbelief when I made the accusation. They always assured me that I was wrong, 100% of the time, "that person wouldn't do that". Accounting controls are put in place because humans are less likely to do stupid things when controls are in place, more so for kids who are more prone to bad choices.

dredre9987
01-10-2010, 02:09 PM
They are of an apporved age for the game. but they are not adults.

They were told no and have had there accounts closed, but the are KIDS....

then obviously you dont quite "wear the pants in the house".

Hendrik
01-10-2010, 02:10 PM
* Issue 1. The DDO Store "Get More" came after the fact that some of us had aggreed to these terms, so without making us Agree to them again and or after the fact in some states make them a void or modified contract without agreement. But I didn't start this post to argue my point . I just would like a Fix or add on to help protect there customers who have been with them from day 1

You agree each time you or your kids log in.

Best bet is to try pre-paid cards.

http://www.paybycash.com/ddo/codelist.php

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Turbine -- If you do add more hoops and hurdles for people to jump thru in order to use the DDO store, please make them an option that you can turn off.

Yup, ideally it should be an optional password and/or an option to not save your credit card (the latter is the better option in many ways as it addresess other security and privacy issues as well).

Aspenor
01-10-2010, 02:18 PM
Don't like the EULA, complain to them.

Well, the game is for adults, those over 18. The ones that are legally able to make there own decisions. Clearly worded they are not responsible for someone's minor children, the parent/guardian is.
Turbine's EULA doesn't mean jack when the credit card company revokes payment. Additionally, just because the EULA is there doesn't make this an unreasonable request. How you can't see that is beyond stupid. How about a pom-pom?


As an adult/parent, I would be a little smarter to allow access to an online gaming store to a child without supervision.
You obviously aren't an adult/parent.

Mercury99
01-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Don't like the EULA, complain to them.

Well, the game is for adults, those over 18. The ones that are legally able to make there own decisions. Clearly worded they are not responsible for someone's minor children, the parent/guardian is.

As an adult/parent, I would be a little smarter to allow access to an online gaming store to a child without supervision.

The problem is you either leave you kid as pure FTP or you lock in a creditcard in the store. There is NO option to remove the credit card information. A simple check box in the store that one could click to give the option of saving or not saving the card would be FANTASTIC and remove this complication.

I set up my son my wife and myself on this game, but because of this problem we have gotten him any points for the game because I do not feel safe giving him free access to spend as much as he wants whenever he wants on my credit card.

Yes I am aware of prepaid cards and that is the option I am probably going to use, but it would be MUCH simpler if there was simply a way to NOT save the CC info in the DDO store.

As far as supervision, as a parent, I can not imagine anyone sitting over their kids shoulder for the entire time they are online playing watching everything they do, so yeah they are gonna have "Unsupervised time" I do make periodic drop ins on him while hes playing to check what hes doing, but I have other things to do.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 02:36 PM
The problem is you either leave you kid as pure FTP or you lock in a creditcard in the store. There is NO option to remove the credit card information. A simple check box in the store that one could click to give the option of saving or not saving the card would be FANTASTIC and remove this complication.

I set up my son my wife and myself on this game, but because of this problem we have gotten him any points for the game because I do not feel safe giving him free access to spend as much as he wants whenever he wants on my credit card. .

This is a great point. Without proper controls there will be lots of kids and teens running around on free accounts that would otherwise have subs or premium accounts. The lack of controls will definately cost Turbine money.

BitkaCK2
01-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Snip...
You know, there IS a reason the Bible mentions the birth of Jesus and then skips to his adulthood. NO child is perfect. ;)
...

+1 rep this made me laugh.

Hendrik
01-10-2010, 04:22 PM
The problem is you either leave you kid as pure FTP or you lock in a creditcard in the store. There is NO option to remove the credit card information. A simple check box in the store that one could click to give the option of saving or not saving the card would be FANTASTIC and remove this complication.

I set up my son my wife and myself on this game, but because of this problem we have gotten him any points for the game because I do not feel safe giving him free access to spend as much as he wants whenever he wants on my credit card.

Yes I am aware of prepaid cards and that is the option I am probably going to use, but it would be MUCH simpler if there was simply a way to NOT save the CC info in the DDO store.

As far as supervision, as a parent, I can not imagine anyone sitting over their kids shoulder for the entire time they are online playing watching everything they do, so yeah they are gonna have "Unsupervised time" I do make periodic drop ins on him while hes playing to check what hes doing, but I have other things to do.



This is the guy you wanna talk to;

http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=303818


Express your concerns to him/her and they might be able to help or at least give you options.

Hokiewa
01-10-2010, 04:25 PM
As much as I love an arguement, the OP is simply asking for a tool to change this. I think pounding on him, when it's clear he's paying for 5 subs, or was, is a little odd. This is the suggestion forum, and he's clearly not pointing the blame at Turbine. He's simply suggesting a change, and I believe a simple warranted one. Improving the mechanics of the E-store is simply smart business. I would guess that if a safeguard was put into place, then the OP would likely at some point (when grounding/punishment/grovelling is over) re-sub his kids.

calvinklien
01-10-2010, 05:15 PM
You know, there IS a reason the Bible mentions the birth of Jesus and then skips to his adulthood. NO child is perfect. ;)


lol. except that one time he went missing when he was 12 or so and later his parents found him in the temple preaching. i assume he didn't get their permission to go, which proves your point Kreaper!

it boils down to math though. what incentive is there for turbine? they crunch the #'s (and probably already have)

If they loose X amount of VIP's (for lack of parental control) but earned Y dollars vs. gaining Z amount of VIP's due to nice parental controls and earning... oh you get my point. just think Ford Pinto.

i imagine turbine would take their sweet time on this one and i agree a prepaid cc seems the way to go and when your kids run out of points, tough dookie for them, no more tomes and hot pink hair!

Blackbird
01-10-2010, 06:01 PM
( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account.

A little off topic but I am REALLY curious what they spent that many points on if they are VIP (i.e. since they wouldn't be buying adventure packs). I don't know if I could find enough stuff to buy for that many points. I mean, I could TRY but I would be really trying.

deadmanet
01-10-2010, 06:56 PM
As my thought on this matter has pretty much been stated by multiple posters, I am just going to say:

/signed

Yes, I am a parent, and yes it is ultimately our responsibility, but all the OP is asking, is for something to help enforce the rules. It's even been suggested to have an option to turn said help off, so you can just *click click* woot! another shrine! So, it will not affect your gameplay.

Partially on topic:
I myself, as an adult, do not like my CC info stored in the game and would like to be able to remove it.

cdemeritt
01-10-2010, 07:15 PM
Interesting...

first /signed.

2nd...
This is not about good kids or good parenting. Almost every TV/ Cable company provides channel lockouts for parents... Does this mean parents are not doing their jobs in policing their kids viewing habits?

As a former online merchant, any online merchant (or any merchant) who accepts credit cards is foolish not to put controls to protect themselves from fraud or unauthorized usage. I can't see any store clerk accepting a CC from a 12 year old who has $100 worth of junk food and other kid stuff, without checking to see if a parent is around.... US banking rules and laws Trump Turbines EULA. Turbine is putting itself at risk by not looking into this and adding Password or such optional feature to block unauthorized transactions, and as pointed out, the EULA will not protect them in a court of law. Unauthorized charges that get "charged back" to Turbine can lead to fines and/or termination of Turbines agreement with the Credit Card Processing company (unlikely, but it was in my contract with my CC processing bank).

This is more About Turbine Covering it's own A** than it is about this one case.... of course Turbine hasn't done too much about it in the last couple months that it has been reported, so they obviously don't think it is too much of a issue....

Tin_Dragon
01-10-2010, 07:58 PM
Signed.

Don't have kids but almost every MMO is developing parental controls.

For the time being you could have redefined their key for opening the store to something ridiculous.

Till they log back in and it AUTO DEFAULTS, back to ctrl-s.

Missing_Minds
01-10-2010, 08:02 PM
This is more About Turbine Covering it's own A** than it is about this one case.... of course Turbine hasn't done too much about it in the last couple months that it has been reported, so they obviously don't think it is too much of a issue....
In one aspect they are. For each purchase that is made from the store, the email address stored for the account is sent a 'thank you' for the purchase. This is one manner (after the fact) that can be used to keep track of things. (Note, I never once said anything about children. It won't always be children doing this. It could very well someone that was upset with you off and hacked your account.)

Now I've been thinking about this rather than have this useless debate stating that kids have disorders/deficiencies, EULAs, and how CC works. You know, something constructive.

Here is my suggestion (and I think it would be fairly simple to do, but I don't know database's so I don't know for fact.)

1. The only change to the DDO Store is this. "Remove Point Purchases." This is the only thing that really takes $$$$. (while at it, as a fail safe, make certain that the Store can not access any credit card info at all. ONLY how many DDO Points the account contains. You either have enough points or you do not.)

2. Make point purchases a Premium Service. They already stated that purchasing points moves a F2P account up to being marked as Premium Account so making it a Premium Service is logical. This service should be automated such to where it is near instantaneous or at least only take maybe 30 odd minutes to process. (I think the current system is what... 1 hour to get points in your account via favor?) Also by making it such a service, you make certain that the holder of the card is the one putting in the information, not someone in the game, whomever it may be. As points are account based and not server/character this should work out just fine.

Zippo
01-10-2010, 08:18 PM
I hire people. I try to hire trustworthy people, but often you don't know just how trustworthy someone is until they have worked for you for a while. I mean you try but what is your "test" for trustworthiness? I guess my point is that the longer someone has worked for you the better a judge of their character you are.

Sorry to nitpick but this struck a cord with me.

The whole keeping honest people honest thing.

Zippo
01-10-2010, 08:23 PM
To the people pointing fingers at the OP's kids as being undisciplined or not fit for DDO. Get over yourselves. Are you really so old that your forget being kids? It IS possible to be a "good kid" and break a rule.

The OP is not ranting, blaming Turbine or posting inappropriately. Rather he is making a reasonable request. Do you really get such a kick out of seeing your words on the screen? Take a pill. Go read a book, watch TV or have a nap--it is obvious you are taking your role as forum police a little too seriously.


http://file001.esportsea.com/images/teams/28824.jpg
:D

Zippo
01-10-2010, 08:30 PM
then obviously you dont quite "wear the pants in the house".

I wear the pants in my house and it doesn't change the fact that kids will be kids.

Elation
01-10-2010, 08:55 PM
/signed would love to have my cc info not on or have the option to have it removed if not possible a simple pin code would work 4 digits would be fine and not hamper your play style to much unless you really suck!

Aussieee
01-10-2010, 09:09 PM
This is kind of funny. I was in the same situation when my than 2,5 year old was playing Toontown. We canseled his account so he was playing for free. And all of a sudden he comes to me and look like he did something cause he started hugging me etc... I coudn't find what he did..... in few min I look at his PC just to find out that he purchased 6 months of subscription for the game. They woudn't refund our money and there were no options to take off the cc from the account..... So something to actually prevent that would be nice. I know my situation was with diferent game but I can see where he is coming from.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 09:11 PM
Till they log back in and it AUTO DEFAULTS, back to ctrl-s.

And there is that big store icon that they can click without a shortcut too lol

Dawn_Falcon
01-10-2010, 09:25 PM
Problem is still the same,

No it's not. You need to enter your paypal username and password every time.

amethystdragon
01-10-2010, 09:30 PM
If Turbine will not give us the option to not have our cc info stored in the DDO store, then they should atleast make to where you have to type the security number from the back of your card in before you can finalize the transaction. This way they can be assured that the person who is wanting to make the transaction is holding the cc. Now if someone else has your cc or all the information off your cc, then you have bigger issues than this game to worrie about.

TechNoFear
01-10-2010, 10:04 PM
1. The only change to the DDO Store is this. "Remove Point Purchases."

Easy to add this functionality;

Add an option to the account page; 'Allow TP Purchases' (default to 'yes').

Ensure that changing this option from 'No' to 'Yes' would require re-entry of the CC # or PAN (as a secondary security measure).

If this option on the account is set to 'No' the 'Buy Points' button is disabled in game. The game must read the account data to confirm the login, so this setting could be passed/returned after successful login (and used to modify the store's UI).

cyanpill
01-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Partially on topic:
I myself, as an adult, do not like my CC info stored in the game and would like to be able to remove it.

Same here. Infact when I was playing WoW, I had a roommate who didn't have a credit card, so he was using my information... which was fine untill he moved out and tried to keep using my card. Luckily I was already changing my card info, but that could have turned ugly....

Aiwendel
01-10-2010, 10:52 PM
Use paypal, that way they have to type in the password every time you add TP to the account.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Use paypal, that way they have to type in the password every time you add TP to the account.

That would still prevent them from subscribing.

Riorik
01-10-2010, 11:15 PM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,


I agree. As a parent of a player, my instructions to my son were to never-ever-use these and to never-ever discuss buying stuff from the turbine store with anybody.

I shouldn't have to do this. It's a matter of priorities - and once we're talking about real money, it should be a priority for Turbine. I'm a little surprised it wasn't at the top of the list...unless they somehow think the worst thing that can happen is they (turbine) earn a little extra money.

Parent's don't think that way and one little bit of negative press goes much further than 5 little bits of positive.

ChaelaAnne
01-10-2010, 11:19 PM
* Issue 1. The DDO Store "Get More" came after the fact that some of us had aggreed to these terms, so without making us Agree to them again and or after the fact in some states make them a void or modified contract without agreement. But I didn't start this post to argue my point . I just would like a Fix or add on to help protect there customers who have been with them from day 1

Actually, every time there is an update, I have to reagree to the EULA. I'm guessing it's the same for everyone.

Memnir
01-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Look, there is more protection against accidentally deleting a character than there is charging money to a credit card. That seems a little goofy to me. I can't really argue with those who say it's more of a parental problem than Turbine's... in fact I agree with most of these folks. It's unfortunate that either the OP didn't put the fear of god into his kids about buying points - or that they didn't listen - but the matter of Turbine's responsibility in the matter is debatable. You are not supposed to let other people use your account - family members included. In my opinion, kids in particular. My kids each have their own F2P accounts for when they want to play - and they cannot use my account with the credit card hooked into it. While I trust my kids to be smart about things - kids will be kids. So, being proactive made a lot of sense to me...

But, adding a confirmation box with the account's password on it prior to charging the points would not be a bad thing. If only to stem off these complaints in the future.

Letrii
01-11-2010, 02:45 AM
Look, there is more protection against accidentally deleting a character than there is charging money to a credit card. That seems a little goofy to me. I can't really argue with those who say it's more of a parental problem than Turbine's... in fact I agree with most of these folks. It's unfortunate that either the OP didn't put the fear of god into his kids about buying points - or that they didn't listen - but the matter of Turbine's responsibility in the matter is debatable. You are not supposed to let other people use your account - family members included. In my opinion, kids in particular. My kids each have their own F2P accounts for when they want to play - and they cannot use my account with the credit card hooked into it. While I trust my kids to be smart about things - kids will be kids. So, being proactive made a lot of sense to me...

But, adding a confirmation box with the account's password on it prior to charging the points would not be a bad thing. If only to stem off these complaints in the future.

Would need a separate password, I assume kids would have password to log in and play with the account.

Dr.Maul
01-11-2010, 03:27 AM
/signed

I have kids which also qualify the age for this mmorpg, but "no offence" my kids were brought up great as i was firm with them... as far as i am concerned, the game should put up the parental control system, but kids can also be thought

Clay
01-11-2010, 03:44 AM
Memnir, his kids started with VIP accounts. Do you make your young children pay for their own accounts? And if not, would you not agree that it is easiest to pay for them in the same manner you pay for your own?

That is a good point you make, and a strange situation. There ARE more controls against accidentally deleting a character.

Memnir
01-11-2010, 04:04 AM
If my kids wanted VIP accounts - then I would make them pay for it themselves (I give em allowance for a reason :)). Prepaid CCs work just fine, no matter what A_D says on the matter. I know, I used them for the majority of my DDO lifespan - and if my kids wanted to go VIP, then that is what they'd do too.

That is because I know that kids will just be kids on occasion, and do hare-brained things like rack up $100 worth of charges on the CC without thinking of the consequences. But, be that as it may - that is what I would do, and obviously not what the OP did. So, that is neither here nor there.

No matter how I may or may not chose to allow my own kids to approach DDO, there is a need for some measure of confirmation on buying points. And I mean beyond Buy Now/Confirm Purchase. If, as I said, it is only to nix these kind of complaints in the future. Yes, the game is T for Teen, but for the majority of teenage life - you cannot legally own your own credit card, so it is not outlandish to think that most parents of young teens who play DDO will hook in their own cards... and perhaps get some nasty surprises in the bill like the OP did. And that is why I agree that a layer of password requirement/protection/security is not a bad thing. It would hardly inconvenience adult customers at all, and would lessen the likelihood that Jr. is going to load up on points so they can try out all the hair styles in every color.

I'm on the OP's side, even if I don't think they were 100% right in the choices made.

transtemporal
01-11-2010, 04:06 AM
Caverndragon - while I generally agree with you that it needs some kind of password mechanism, or an option to not store your card number, the responsibility doesn't lie solely with Turbine - respectfully, if you're gonna let your kids have access to your credit card, you have to educate them about it.

edit: apologies, didn't realise there was already 5 pages, lol.

Failedlegend
01-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Just because Turbine put these statements in an agreement does not mean they are enforceable.

They are 100% enforcable because everyone who plays the game has agreed to them...it could say "if you play for more than 7206 days you must give turbine a monkey" that would be enforcable...albeit dumb but it would have been agreed to. It's a legal contract...read it...don't like it, don't play

whysper
01-11-2010, 11:36 AM
Two separate things:

1) The OP is responsible for the charges incurred - and I do not believe they at any point contradicted this*.

2) There should be a mechanism to disallow direct store purchases. There are several opt-out implementations that would not interfere with the convenience of most: for example, on the billing site they could store your store card separately (pre-filled with your subscription card), and this could be cleared out...or just a checkbox for disallowing store purchases on the account. Many ways. Actually, Verified by Visa and whatever it is MasterCard has would work too.


* There are indeed laws absolving minors' purchases, but usually those require full restitution to the merchant. I.e., if your kid buys a car with your card, the sale can be voided (which might otherwise not be possible), but they do not get to keep the car. If the purchase has already been consumed...

Added in edit.

whysper
01-11-2010, 11:38 AM
They are 100% enforcable because everyone who plays the game has agreed to them...it could say "if you play for more than 7206 days you must give turbine a monkey" that would be enforcable...albeit dumb but it would have been agreed to. It's a legal contract...read it...don't like it, don't play

This is completely false. Just because a contract (or EULA in this case) says something does not make it legal. Furthermore, traditionally a contract which contains terms that are not legal can be considered void. To combat this, you will notice most contracts add a clause that states that any terms not legal are void, but do not void the rest of the terms.

SoulDecay
01-11-2010, 11:45 AM
They are 100% enforcable because everyone who plays the game has agreed to them...it could say "if you play for more than 7206 days you must give turbine a monkey" that would be enforcable...albeit dumb but it would have been agreed to. It's a legal contract...read it...don't like it, don't play

Nope.

Contract law says stuff about this. For example, contracts made under duress aren't enforcible. That doesn't mean thumbscrews.

For example, in auto insurance, there's this thing called a "no-loss". It's a signed document that says "I have not had any losses from This date to That date." Companies ask for them before they make an exception to reinstate coverage in iffy situations. They've been ruled in multiple courts to be completely non-enforcible, because there's an implied threat there "If you've had losses and/or don't sign this paper, we won't reinstate your policy and you'll be SoL.".

Just because you agreed to it doesn't mean they can enforce it. What you agreed to has to be legal. This is not, therefore can not be enforced.

Anderei
01-11-2010, 02:05 PM
They are 100% enforcable because everyone who plays the game has agreed to them...it could say "if you play for more than 7206 days you must give turbine a monkey" that would be enforcable...albeit dumb but it would have been agreed to. It's a legal contract...read it...don't like it, don't play

Sorry, but you are completly wrong. Law > Contract. No contract is enforcable if it contradicts either law or ethics.

E.g. if kids are not sui juris by law the EULA means jack.

Letrii
01-11-2010, 02:24 PM
Credit cards are often used as a form of age verification online. If you use or allow minor to use your CC, Turbine has made a good faith effort to ensure they are dealing with someone legally eligible to make said purchase.

SoulDecay
01-11-2010, 03:28 PM
Credit cards are often used as a form of age verification online. If you use or allow minor to use your CC, Turbine has made a good faith effort to ensure they are dealing with someone legally eligible to make said purchase.

He's not allowing a minor to use his credit card.

He's allowing a minor to use his account, which Turbine has inextricibly linked his credit card to, without his authorization.

kadens
01-11-2010, 04:26 PM
/signed.

i am a father. my kids aren't old enough to even play but i still have an issue with the TP purchase system in DDO. Simple enough to add a password verification check at point of sale and if not, should still be introduced (preferably with a different password to the main account). Heck for how often you might actually purchase on an individual account, the minor inconvenience of typing a password in will save headaches in the future, for both customer and turbine alike.

Letrii
01-11-2010, 05:21 PM
He's not allowing a minor to use his credit card.

He's allowing a minor to use his account, which Turbine has inextricibly linked his credit card to, without his authorization.

Isn't that a violation of the EULA?

Zippo
01-11-2010, 05:31 PM
Isn't that a violation of the EULA?

As legal guardian of a minor child, no.

CavernDragon
01-11-2010, 05:35 PM
The whole point of my post was to Request a safegard for my CC, I just need to point out a few things..

The kids did have there own accounts per DDO rules but did not have the passwords to log in, My wife and I held the pw's.

2nd I play ddo as well and sit next to them and run quests as a family type deal.. As I can not get out of the house to much do to limitations it gives me time to spend with them. A simple safty net is all I'm asking for not much in the ways of things..

A lot of good points have been made but the bottom line is a request for simple fix for a big issue. Something that could be toggled on in the MY account aside from the game log on, have a 2nd password for the Get more.. Not much to ask for.


Just on a off note and because of some of the posts here: After contacting the cc and talking with someone in there leagle dept. I could request that the charges be reversed and they would do it with nothing more then a simple signing of my name saying I did not authrize my child to buy them points. NOT THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN. but I had to point this out. He is a minor and not able by LAW to use my cc with out my ok.. ( What would happen is" They would have the right to close and lock out his account and denie him access to the ddo game for ever... ) but the charges would not be paid. Fact.
2nd DDO could file a small claims case to try and recover said cost but then state law kicks in and in the current state I live it just would not be worth it in leagle fees and filing..

This was just FYI not what is going to or has happened.

Shassa
01-15-2010, 04:08 AM
What would happen is they would have the right to close and lock out his account and denie him access to the ddo game for ever... ) but the charges would not be paid.

Well... my old EQ account was closed because of a refund made (different circumstances) but I could always get a different account. Same thing would happen with DDO, they would close your account(s) so you couldnt use the points that weren't paid for anymore, but there's nothing stopping you from making another account. I seriously doubt they'd IP ban you. Not that that stops people either.

Murderface
01-15-2010, 04:21 AM
all they need to do is add a password check and boom problem solved. heck i think its a good idea to have a more secure enviorment. make sure if they go to account options they need to put a password in to buy points to do any account actions should require password

Arculea
01-15-2010, 04:27 AM
Problem is still the same,, i keep a nice balance in my paypal and do have the cc for it and they would still have access to the store "Get more" I have contacted the bank and posted it as unauthrized. It seems once they have your card on file you can not just have it removed. I pay for my account by the year but the kids by the month (off topic" bad grades no game)

and I agree this brings up a whole other issue with privacy,

This isn´t a problem...
if you want to buy TP with Paypal,
you have to enter your Paypal password.
So if your kids don´t know your Paypal password (and it isn´t easy to guess for them)
this would de facto be a workaround for you till Turbine implements other ways of parental control for the purchase of TP.
(the only question IMHO is, whether as a VIP you are able/allowed to remove your CC-Info from the profile)

Anderei
01-15-2010, 04:54 AM
all they need to do is add a password check and boom problem solved

This should be default.
Of course they want to make it easy to spend money... but suppose I'd still live at my parents. heck, I go for the toilet, evil sister sits down on the running game, spends a lot of money.... ??? ... profit!

---
On the otherhand evil sister could also hand out my precious (non soulbound) items, still it be ingame stuff "only".

Battleworm
01-15-2010, 07:41 AM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.


On the box it says "M" for mature.I would think that's one of the reasons.I know,I know it's quite a shock right?

Lorien_the_First_One
01-15-2010, 07:43 AM
They are 100% enforcable because everyone who plays the game has agreed to them...it could say "if you play for more than 7206 days you must give turbine a monkey" that would be enforcable...albeit dumb but it would have been agreed to. It's a legal contract...read it...don't like it, don't play

Sorry, your grasp of the law is a bit weak in this area. As an internet merchant I can tell you:

1) Legislation overrules contract law.
2) The mechant agreement overrules the contract with you, unless Turbine no longer wishes to be a merchant.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-15-2010, 07:44 AM
Credit cards are often used as a form of age verification online. If you use or allow minor to use your CC, Turbine has made a good faith effort to ensure they are dealing with someone legally eligible to make said purchase.

Actually that's only used by porn sites to cover themselves against US anti-porn legislation. It's pretty bogus and doesn't even come close to working given that you can get a prepaid creditcard underage.

chubbs99
01-15-2010, 08:17 AM
No, that is not at all simple. Have you tried to use a pre-paid card? It's a lot of work! I hope you know what a 5009 error is, because I don't. As near as I can figure, Turbine doesn't like to accept subscriptions from a card with a limited cash value.


Not sure if this has been addressed or not, But I actually called billing once on this and after a legthy time on hold (and listing to the taver music on hold) I was told that this error is because Turbine's system can't verify the CCV (3 digit security number on the back of cards) on pre-paid cards. Atleast IIRC this is the sorce of your error, and the reason why I still have to use pay by cash to get game cards (and peved I can't use paypal).

cdemeritt
01-15-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, I've been following this thread for some time now, and think too many have focused solely on the fact that the kids bought points, and it's the kids fault... This is because the Title is "... it's too easy for kids to buy points" However, The title should read "it's too easy for ANYONE to buy points"...

Simply most people on a long run don't log out every time they AFK. Say you are on a shroud run, and you need to go AFK for a min in part 3 as you are getting ready to step into pt4. (happens often, good time for a quick bio break), and your drunken roommate decides it would be funny to rack up $150 worth of points while your away... (and don't say drunks couldn't, they often find stupid things like that funny)

It's not just kids, it's the drunken roommate, anyone who can get to your computer while you are AFK for 2 mins, the spouse with impulse control issues, the mentally ******** family member or a number of other scenarios that can happen.

This Buy points needs to be unlinked from my CC, or a password put into place. I am willing to buy my kids/family other VIP accounts, but not willing to give them full access to my CC.

Yes, There are some helpful workabouts have been suggested, but I suspect more people will simply cancel the accounts they've bought for others vs risk the bills.

unionyes
01-15-2010, 02:16 PM
The only way this is a problem that Turbine has to fix is if your kids are accidentally purchasing something, for example trying to drink a potion and winding up buying 1000 points because the icons look the same. They don't, so this isn't the case.

If your kids are purchasing things after you have told them not to, then you may want to have a chat with your kids.

If your kids are too young to understand that they should listen to you when you say don't do something, then they are too young to be on a computer unattended.

If your kids sit there and smile and nod while you tell them not to buy Turbine points, then go and buy them anyhow as soon as you are not in the room, then I would suggest there may be a bigger problem. The problem is not Turbine's, though.

If your kids break into the liquor cabinet and drink all your rum, do you call the cabinet manufacturer and tell them they need to put a better lock on it? Or do you discipline your kids in whatever manner you discipline them?

If your kids stole something from your neighbors yard, would you tell him that he needs to lock his stuff up? Or would you discipline your kids?

If your kids took your car keys and went for a joyride, would you think that the best solution for that is to hide the keys? Or would you discipline your kids.

If your kids stole an answer key from a teachers desk for a test, would you call the teacher and tell her she needs to hide it better than that? Or would you discipline your kids?

I could go on all day :)

Battleworm
01-15-2010, 02:17 PM
Well, I've been following this thread for some time now, and think too many have focused solely on the fact that the kids bought points, and it's the kids fault... This is because the Title is "... it's too easy for kids to buy points" However, The title should read "it's too easy for ANYONE to buy points"...

Simply most people on a long run don't log out every time they AFK. Say you are on a shroud run, and you need to go AFK for a min in part 3 as you are getting ready to step into pt4. (happens often, good time for a quick bio break), and your drunken roommate decides it would be funny to rack up $150 worth of points while your away... (and don't say drunks couldn't, they often find stupid things like that funny)

It's not just kids, it's the drunken roommate, anyone who can get to your computer while you are AFK for 2 mins, the spouse with impulse control issues, the mentally ******** family member or a number of other scenarios that can happen.

This Buy points needs to be unlinked from my CC, or a password put into place. I am willing to buy my kids/family other VIP accounts, but not willing to give them full access to my CC.

Yes, There are some helpful workabouts have been suggested, but I suspect more people will simply cancel the accounts they've bought for others vs risk the bills.


It is still the person's fault.Turbine can't save the world if they are stupid,no matter how many measures they put in

ghettoGenius
01-15-2010, 02:42 PM
The reason a site like Wizards 101 has the parental password and DDO doesnt is because Wizards 101 was designed to be utilized by children whereas DDO was designed to be utilized by adults. Its that simple. DDO devs apparently did not fathom the possibility of a kid on a adults account charging things in the store.

It should have been a feature rolled out during the DDO:EU release as it had no bearing before that. Any player who cries about having to type a quick password before a electronic transaction in game either:

1) doesnt have children (therefore has an under-developed sense of patience)
2) has never been a victim of identity/credit fraud
3) is just plain Lazy

And if thats such an issue then they could add a parental password checkbox on the account management web page which would enforce additional parental password verification in the store. I build more complicated web apps everyday.

smatt
01-15-2010, 02:42 PM
The only way this is a problem that Turbine has to fix is if your kids are accidentally purchasing something, for example trying to drink a potion and winding up buying 1000 points because the icons look the same. They don't, so this isn't the case.

If your kids are purchasing things after you have told them not to, then you may want to have a chat with your kids.

If your kids are too young to understand that they should listen to you when you say don't do something, then they are too young to be on a computer unattended.

If your kids sit there and smile and nod while you tell them not to buy Turbine points, then go and buy them anyhow as soon as you are not in the room, then I would suggest there may be a bigger problem. The problem is not Turbine's, though.

If your kids break into the liquor cabinet and drink all your rum, do you call the cabinet manufacturer and tell them they need to put a better lock on it? Or do you discipline your kids in whatever manner you discipline them?

If your kids stole something from your neighbors yard, would you tell him that he needs to lock his stuff up? Or would you discipline your kids?

If your kids took your car keys and went for a joyride, would you think that the best solution for that is to hide the keys? Or would you discipline your kids.

If your kids stole an answer key from a teachers desk for a test, would you call the teacher and tell her she needs to hide it better than that? Or would you discipline your kids?

I could go on all day :)

Of course, I don't think the true resposibility lies with Turbine. But it would be a very easy and smart thing for Turbine to do That is adding a password for additional real money purchases of Turbine points..... Responsibility to do, have to do, and a good idea to do, are all very different things.

unionyes
01-15-2010, 02:49 PM
Of course, I don't think the true resposibility lies with Turbine. But it would be a very easy and smart thing for Turbine to do That is adding a password for additional real money purchases of Turbine points..... Responsibility to do, have to do, and a good idea to do, are all very different things.

Oh, I agree, and I wouldn't close my accounts if they put one on. Just saying that if my kids were doing that my first response would not be to try and get Turbine to lock it up tighter.

By the time my kids were done, the bathrooms, kitchen, and garage would be so clean they would sparkle. Of course, this issue isn't nearly as bad as this........

:)http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6323/parentsoftheyear80000.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/parentsoftheyear80000.jpg/)

Cylinwolf
01-15-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm actually a little surprised that this conversation has gone on as long as it has.

If the OP had make a post just to say "My kids bought a ton of DDO points," then yes, by all means everyone could very well feel that coming in and telling him to suck it up and tell him how to raise his kids better.

But this thread's suggestion was much less directed just at the fact that kids can buy points too easy, but that everyone can buy points too easily and this all comes down to personal security assurance.

A lot of people (VIPs would be the specific in this case) don't want their credit cards linked to their accounts in this fashion. I don't even like the idea that anyone could just walk up to my computer, click four buttons, and siphon my bank account empty. (Though my desktop is a little better warded for this, personally). Why deny someone the button-option to unlink DDOStore purchases from their VIP credit card?

The kids aren't even the real issue here, people. Knowing your money is safe is something important to a LOT of people; just look at how successful PayPal is thanks to being the safest and most reliable way of doing online transactions.

KKDragonLord
01-15-2010, 11:18 PM
This Buy points needs to be unlinked from my CC, or a password put into place. I am willing to buy my kids/family other VIP accounts, but not willing to give them full access to my CC.



It is still the person's fault.Turbine can't save the world if they are stupid,no matter how many measures they put in

Is it too much to ask for a simple PASSWORD when your CC is involved?!

There is no need to attack or defend Turbine, yeah they can't save the world, its not their fault etc... Thats not the problem here, don't go around defending a company just because you play their game.

A simple request for Password should not be Controversial.

Its a big oversight that there isn't one, but the whys or how it happened don't matter, only thing that matters now is that a Password is a Good idea, even if just as another confirmation step.

This is a simple, logical request, thats it, no one is going to sue Turbine for what their kids did.

If you dont want to add a Password, leave it blank, there, everyone gets their way. More people happy, better for Turbine in the long run.

mistahnice
01-15-2010, 11:20 PM
it would be inconvenient for me to have to enter a password or my cc info as i mostly buy stuff from the turbine store when i want it and i demand it no later than instantly.

KKDragonLord
01-15-2010, 11:23 PM
it would be inconvenient for me to have to enter a password or my cc info as i mostly buy stuff from the turbine store when i want it and i demand it no later than instantly.


If you dont want to add a Password, leave it blank.

is it readable now?

mistahnice
01-15-2010, 11:31 PM
is it readable now?

why fix what isn't broken? here's a real easy step by step to you folks who are allergic to workarounds:

1 setup a paypal account for your poor kid bound to be raised by video games with prepaid plastic
2 send them money
3 associate their personal ddo account with their personal paypal account
4 they can't spend money they don't have

KKDragonLord
01-15-2010, 11:39 PM
why fix what isn't broken? here's a real easy step by step to you folks who are allergic to workarounds:

1 setup a paypal account for your poor kid bound to be raised by video games with prepaid plastic
2 send them money
3 associate their personal ddo account with their personal paypal account
4 they can't spend money they don't have

Why should people who want passwords have to use a workaround?

mistahnice
01-15-2010, 11:49 PM
Why should people who want passwords have to use a workaround?

why should every little problem you have that you're too lazy to take the steps to rectify require developer intervention?

KKDragonLord
01-15-2010, 11:59 PM
why should every little problem you have that you're too lazy to take the steps to rectify require developer intervention?

I see you never stopped to consider that there might be people out there who don't know how to make "workarounds" and who dont read the forums either.

And i see you are assuming i have this problem. I don't, i am just amazed that there isn't a password confirmation for the store.

What requires developer intervention is not mine or the OPs problem, its a poor business model design problem.

Their responsibility.

Why are you so against an OPTIONAL security check anyway? Its not something that complicated even.

mistahnice
01-16-2010, 12:08 AM
I see you never stopped to consider that there might be people out there who don't know how to make "workarounds" and who dont read the forums either.

And i see you are assuming i have this problem. I don't, i am just amazed that there isn't a password confirmation for the store.

What requires developer intervention is not mine or the OPs problem, its a poor business model design problem.

Their responsibility.

Why are you so against an OPTIONAL security check anyway? Its not something that complicated even.

this is valuable time the devs could spend improving the game for everyone, not just a specific subset of the child-rearing population that have irresponsible children.

KKDragonLord
01-16-2010, 12:19 AM
this is valuable time the devs could spend improving the game for everyone, not just a specific subset of the child-rearing population that have irresponsible children.

Yeah, a valuable 1 hour of coding to prevent child-rearing population from having problems.

I bet they could make Druids if it weren't for that. :rolleyes:

Having to grind for anchoring boots on any and all characters is a much more important issue than a lack of safety that could prevent a real loss of real money for real people...

Btw, i honestly believe a good portion of veteran players in this game are included in this child-rearing demographic. I know my guild has several people like that. Not to mention that children are children. PS: i did a lot of stupid things when i was 13, dont tell me you didnt.

mistahnice
01-16-2010, 12:20 AM
Yeah, a valuable 1 hour of coding to prevent child-rearing population from having problems.

I bet they could make Druids if it weren't for that. :rolleyes:

Having to grind for anchoring boots on any and all characters is a much more important issue than a lack of safety that could prevent a real loss of real money for real people...

Btw, i honestly believe a good portion of veteran players in this game are included in this child-rearing demographic. I know my guild has several people like that.

you don't understand the qa process so i won't bother trying to explain how wrong you are on the time required to implement new features.

cipher_nemo4
01-16-2010, 12:21 AM
/signed

Parents should take responsibility to teach their kids what to do and not to do, but at the same time, they need the tools in order to do this. So far I see no parental tools for this in DDO. If a parent uses their credit card on the same account that their kids use (even though different characters), Turbine treats it as the same thing.

But I doubt Turbine will do anything about it: they're greedy (needy?) for the money. Unfortunately, if you do a chargeback on those purchases a child makes, Turbine will most likely lock out your account. So if you do opt for a chargeback from your credit card company/bank, I'd chargeback all Turbine purchases on DDO and start a new account. The ethics are up for you to decide for your situation, as some of us would think that's unethical, and some would feel it's justified. It's all situational.

mistahnice
01-16-2010, 12:36 AM
why on earth wouldn't they ban the hell out of you for trying to scam them with a chargeback? parents are responsible for their minor children and their actions, and hey, if you (as a parent) think otherwise you aren't eligible to be playing ddo right now.

chubbs99
01-16-2010, 12:54 AM
I don't think its been mentioned, but we are all missing probably the easiest fix turbine could place.
in your account management (myaccount.turbine.com), give parents the ability to flag an account as a minor account and set a password. Doing this would make purchasing TP through the DDO store require a password (the one the parents set). This "Minor account" could also lead to such account options as allowed play times (as seen in many other games) so the kids can only log in during certian hours (maybe allow parent password override for unforseen occurances so they don't have to change anything in account management). This option would however not change a subscription option so accounts can still be set up on a credit card to auto renew.

I don't have kids myself, but even I can see how this would be the least impacting solution to a problem that we can clearly see exists. And frackly I'm kinda supprised they haven't bothered to implement something like this. And since it would be an "opt-in" type solution the guys who don't care don't have to worry.

Jay203
01-16-2010, 01:09 AM
pretty sure the kids should be playing with adult supervision :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lorien_the_First_One
01-16-2010, 03:27 AM
why on earth wouldn't they ban the hell out of you for trying to scam them with a chargeback? parents are responsible for their minor children and their actions, and hey, if you (as a parent) think otherwise you aren't eligible to be playing ddo right now.

You know that isn't legally true right?

Battleworm
01-16-2010, 09:10 AM
Is it too much to ask for a simple PASSWORD when your CC is involved?!

There is no need to attack or defend Turbine, yeah they can't save the world, its not their fault etc... Thats not the problem here, don't go around defending a company just because you play their game.

A simple request for Password should not be Controversial.

Its a big oversight that there isn't one, but the whys or how it happened don't matter, only thing that matters now is that a Password is a Good idea, even if just as another confirmation step.

This is a simple, logical request, thats it, no one is going to sue Turbine for what their kids did.

If you dont want to add a Password, leave it blank, there, everyone gets their way. More people happy, better for Turbine in the long run.

You obviously don't get it,still.Does this game have a G rating Or M?M goes for mature - Implying no kids.This is what's wrong with society today,it's everyone's fault i can't be bothered to check what my kid is doing with the game my credit card is used on.Do i really need to spell it out more than this?This is not a kid's game is reason 1,reason 2 is don't leave your kid unsupervised and lesson 3 is people are not that smart if they need turbine to monitor their kids.Maybe they shouldn't play the game in the first place and take parenting classes.

Zippo
01-16-2010, 09:23 AM
this is valuable time the devs could spend improving the game for everyone, not just a specific subset of the child-rearing population that have irresponsible children.

Given this comment right here, you are showing you obviously don't have nor have you had the responsibility of children. Kids will be kids. They do stupid things even if you are the best parent possible and try to instill responsibility and morals and everything else. Asking for simple measures to keep honest kids honest is not too much to ask. No one said it has to effect you and your gameplay. They are asking for a simple option but simple minds might have a hard time grasping that simple concept.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-16-2010, 09:24 AM
You obviously don't get it,still.Does this game have a G rating Or M?M goes for mature -.

Actually the rating is T for Teens, suggesting those 13 and up, but thanks for making the case for the need for parental controls by pointing out the rating of the game.

SneakThief
01-16-2010, 10:46 AM
You obviously don't get it,still.Does this game have a G rating Or M?M goes for mature - Implying no kids.This is what's wrong with society today,it's everyone's fault i can't be bothered to check what my kid is doing with the game my credit card is used on.Do i really need to spell it out more than this?This is not a kid's game is reason 1,reason 2 is don't leave your kid unsupervised and lesson 3 is people are not that smart if they need turbine to monitor their kids.Maybe they shouldn't play the game in the first place and take parenting classes.


Actually the rating is T for Teens, suggesting those 13 and up, but thanks for making the case for the need for parental controls by pointing out the rating of the game.

I have been wondering the whole time why people kept thinking the game was for adults. I know all these people have internet access, and the rating is and has always been right on the front page. It has always been T - 13+

To me, the #1 problem with the store is that it deviates from every other online merchant out there by saving CC information without asking.

The #2 problem is that it pulls in the CC from your account even if you have never purchased anything in the store.

Many of the suggestions in here would not only retain subscriptions for Turnbine, but could save them money as well.
Ex: Assuming they are actually paying the merchant fees (and not farming the WHOLE thing to someone else), adding a CCV entry on each purchase could lower thier per transaction fees.

Anderei
01-16-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't think its been mentioned, but we are all missing probably the easiest fix turbine could place.
in your account management (myaccount.turbine.com), give parents the ability to flag an account as a minor account and set a password. Doing this would make purchasing TP through the DDO store require a password (the one the parents set). This "Minor account" could also lead to such account options as allowed play times (as seen in many other games) so the kids can only log in during certian hours (maybe allow parent password override for unforseen occurances so they don't have to change anything in account management). This option would however not change a subscription option so accounts can still be set up on a credit card to auto renew.

I don't have kids myself, but even I can see how this would be the least impacting solution to a problem that we can clearly see exists. And frackly I'm kinda supprised they haven't bothered to implement something like this. And since it would be an "opt-in" type solution the guys who don't care don't have to worry.

That was exactly what the OP was referring to. And yes it is a good idea IMHO.

KKDragonLord
02-04-2010, 07:58 AM
Seems like other credit card attached services out there have kid issues :D
Like a 3yo spending 40 bucks while trying to play "the cars game":
http://kotaku.com/5463942/what-happens-on-xbox-live-when-you-press-a%252Ba%252Ba

Drayth
02-04-2010, 08:12 AM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.



/signed

Lubecki
02-04-2010, 08:30 AM
I had to write a ticket, then reply to an email where I again had to tell them the exact same details I wrote in the ticket to get them to remove my credit card details from my account. Suffice to say, I will be surviving on the points I purchased, not wanting to go through that again.

Turbine, dont keep my credit card details automatically.

Stealthdog
02-04-2010, 08:35 AM
Turbine needs to add a drunk filter as well.

When I log on, I should be asked if I am drunk or sober. If I check drunk, I can't make any purchases at the DDO Store during that session.

C'mon DDO.....show some love to the drunks and stop taking advantage of us!!!

Zarreth_Nessad
03-14-2011, 07:02 PM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.

/signed

MartinusWyllt
03-14-2011, 07:44 PM
...
Ex: Assuming they are actually paying the merchant fees (and not farming the WHOLE thing to someone else), adding a CCV entry on each purchase could lower thier per transaction fees.

And that's upwards of a full percent, isn't it? Been a long time since I ran a merchant account, so I could be misremembering, the only better rate is to physically scan the card, I think we lost 2% where we could actually scan the card.

MrWizard
03-14-2011, 08:11 PM
It is to easy for kids to buy Points,

The DDO "Get more" needs to have a parental password if there is to be a credit card setup with the account to prevent unauthorized use of this option.

I have had to close all my kids accounts who up till now were VIP members ( and yes they all had there own accounts)

My wife and I controlled the log in password so they could not give it out to anyone but once logged in they had full access to the DDO store and get more points option this is unacceptable, and should have a admin or card holder password.

( I point this out after I see $100.00 taken from my account. Children do not always understand that this took money from a credit card and the concept of the Credit cards and bank cards and why they are not issued to minors.

So my point in all this is please correct this issue so my kids once again can play there ddo.

If you need help with this issue check out Wizards101 they have it setup and in place all ready.

We have been with you from start, please fix this so they can have there VIP accounts back. and no they are not logging in with F2P till this is corrected.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274134

Riorik
03-18-2011, 07:20 AM
Wow, major thread Necro.

Kinda disappointing that this still hasn't been addressed. There have been several "national news" level stories reported in the last six months where minors have charged "items" on free games...mostly in places like facebook & the apple store.

Frankly, as much as I love content, this is business and this should have become a top priority. Likely, this was an easy fix...just another call out to the passwords.

Antheal
03-18-2011, 07:42 AM
A simple request for Password should not be Controversial.

This deserves repeating.

The whole "children buying points without authorisation" thing is irrelevant to the fact that THERE SHOULD BE SECURITY MEASURES IN PLACE FOR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION BEING PERMANENTLY KEPT ON FILE.

Irinis
03-18-2011, 08:12 AM
This deserves repeating.

The whole "children buying points without authorisation" thing is irrelevant to the fact that THERE SHOULD BE SECURITY MEASURES IN PLACE FOR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION BEING PERMANENTLY KEPT ON FILE.

2. If someone hacks into your account, they should not be able to charge up a bunch of points on your credit card.

A hassle way to do this - buy subscription, call Turbine immediately to have the card removed from your account. A month later, put the card info back on the account, then call them AGAIN. And keep doing that, every time you pull the card info mention "oh hey it would be so nice to have a password lock so I don't have to do this every month" and hope that the cost of customer service for calling them every time starts getting noticed. While the card is active on the account, don't let your kids play. :(

PopeJual
03-18-2011, 08:21 AM
Actually that's only used by porn sites to cover themselves against US anti-porn legislation. It's pretty bogus and doesn't even come close to working given that you can get a prepaid creditcard underage.

Thread necro, but I always figured that porn sites just used "credit card age verification" as an excuse to get you to give them your credit card information.

Also, put my name down on the list of people who think that Turbine's desire for impulse purchases is at least poorly implemented since there is no easy way to protect yourself from unwanted TP purchases with your real life money.

ckorik
03-18-2011, 08:24 AM
*edit* grrrr got bit by a necro....

thwart
03-18-2011, 08:26 AM
Signed. I should be able to add a password so that someone who is not authorized to use my credit card cannot buy points.

Unreliable
03-18-2011, 08:26 AM
Good idea.

Also, if you were ever to be hacked they could charge money to your card which is not Ok.

This is why I use paypal, you have to log in each time, but I still need to find a way to remove cc data.

Also, put on a max of $100 a day, for the reason above. If you are spending more then $100 a day on TP your doing something very very wrong.

Lleren
03-18-2011, 08:49 AM
heh, few months late I see =D

amethystdragon
03-18-2011, 09:00 AM
I was one of the people who said something like this would happen, when the store was first introduced. I still do not like the fact that my credit card is tied to the in-game store.

This time it was a child who made a purchase without permission. Next time it could be someone who was hacked, by no fault of their own, that gets charged. Plain and simple, there needs to be some type of control for the store.

As to the problem of someone under 18 using the store with out permission. When I set up free accounts for my children, I had to put in birth dates for their accounts. So Turbine has a way to track the age of the person the account was set up for. Which means they should be able to put in controls for those accounts that are for people under 18. This would stop under age purchases, but still allow adults to make impulse buys.

For the record, the only reason my children have free accounts, is because I do not want my credit card tied to an account of a child who may or may not have enough self control to follow instruction. I believe in preventing a problem instead of trying to clean one up.

The OP never said this was Turbines fault, and he has stated that he has punished his children for breaking the rules. So I do believe that he is do a good job as a parent, or at least the best that he can. The OP is simple asking for more controls when dealing with credit card information, and to me that should be a given. You can never be to safe when dealing with credit card information.

ahpook
03-18-2011, 09:22 AM
Irrelevant.

If you dont trust someone, You should NOT hire them.

This is irrelevant to the issue. I trust my employees but I don't give them all access to the production environment (it is password protected) nor the banking system because they don't have the skills to properly interact in those systems. This is the way the real business world works. It is not about trust but about appropriate safeguards.

Turbine should put password protection on using the credit card for point purchases because that is an appropriate control. Not doing so is negligent on their part.