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Samadhi
01-07-2010, 05:17 PM
From lamannia notes:
"Horoth has been taking opera lessons. It is recommended that non-tanks find Boots of Anchoring."

This must go. It is hard enough finding clerics for this without them needed to wear boots as well. It is hard enough finding a set of boots for 1 or 2 toons as is. During primetime on Ghallanda - this raid can have an LFM sitting up for an hour with no one joining. Adding this additional requirement will make it virtually unplayed.

Do not let this change go live.

RobbinB
01-07-2010, 05:19 PM
From lamannia notes:
"Horoth has been taking opera lessons. It is recommended that non-tanks find Boots of Anchoring."

This must go. It is hard enough finding clerics for this without them needed to wear boots as well. It is hard enough finding a set of boots for 1 or 2 toons as is. During primetime on Ghallanda - this raid can have an LFM sitting up for an hour with no one joining. Adding this additional requirement will make it virtually unplayed.

Do not let this change go live.

Or compensate by doubling or tripling drop rates for the boot components.

Mithran
01-07-2010, 05:23 PM
Or compensate by doubling or tripling drop rates for the boot components.

Having run these quests quite a few times on a number of my characters and still not yet having a pair of my own, I think multiplying it by a factor of ten would be better.

Aranticus
01-07-2010, 07:12 PM
turbine. if you really want to make this mandatory, then you need alot more changes to tower raid

part 1 is fine as it is. it is manageable for most groups, not changes are really needed

part 2 is where you guys really need to clean up your act. surviving the shadows are near impossible. with the method of kiting used, it really boils down to 1 factor, lag. in 9/10 towers that fail in part 2, lag is the one which prevents the kiter from really doing anything. very often, the kiter will die and the message only pops up like 1-2 mins later. lower the dicey factor here. ie lower the aura damage. improve the lag. this will allow people to be successful in this part. even on the runs where i successfully kited, 30% of the time, i'd die just as the boss dies

part 3 is a huge grind fest. more boots = less resource used. boots ingredients are already very rare. just a run with 2 pairs of boots means that the healers will have to use 20-30 pots along with abt 200 scrolls total. unless you tell me that you are going to increase the drop rate of the ingredients, it will be very tough to get a group together. i'm not sure how you are going to implement the new range, but if banishment is going to hit the healers, no one will complete tower unless they keep a pet monk by their side

Visty
01-07-2010, 07:16 PM
unless they keep a pet monk by their side

just curious
how would a monk help?

cluedout
01-07-2010, 07:30 PM
Make Boots bound to account

also make the change retroactive

that is all

Bunker
01-07-2010, 07:31 PM
If we have to achieve a set of boots on all characters now, so be it.

Currently, Devils Keepsake and Pure Iron can be found in more then 1 quest in the Battlefield. I do not think it is too much to ask that the Mysterious Artifact and Demon Blood also be capable of looting in more then 1 quest.

Whether the drop rate should be increased is up for discussion. At the very least, the number of chests that the ingredients drop from should be increased.

IDEA:
If Keepsake and Iron drop in Weapon Shipment, which is a short easy quest. How about having the Artifact and Demon Blood be given a chance to drop in Wrath of Flame (i think it is called), the other short side quest.

Just a thought.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-07-2010, 07:35 PM
Raids are enough of a grind, qualifying for raids should not be. Give a guarenteed drop of a "piece of" ingredient in addition to the current chance of a full ingredient. 3 "pieces of" craftable into 1 item.

Retroactive BTA boots would also be acceptable.

Aranticus
01-07-2010, 07:41 PM
just curious
how would a monk help?

what i've noticed is that when blesphemy lands, there are 2 effects, 1st is the banishment, 2nd is a stun. if both are tied together, then we can assume that the stun is going to hit the rest. even if the healers are not banished, they could be stunned. and getting stunned has very serious repercussions on the outcome of the raid

Mudcnd
01-07-2010, 07:41 PM
Make Boots bound to account

also make the change retroactive

that is all



Yeah this would be the best.

Twerpp
01-07-2010, 07:54 PM
The solution is don't implement this pointless nerf. Really what purpose does it serve, its not like the support classes have to give up anything special for a boots slot. Its JUST MORE GRIND.

Grimtooth333
01-08-2010, 02:06 AM
To hell with this schlock... remove this banish effect and these boots from the game please... that's my vote.

I just don't get the 'lucky' pulls I guess (Never even seen a blood drop)... so I'm bitter about this and this change.

Enochroot
01-08-2010, 02:25 AM
Raids are enough of a grind, qualifying for raids should not be.


I see this a lot, why? Why does everyone think they should just "be able to go raid, with whatever they have?" Constantly see:

- lack of DR bypassers
- lack of SF trinkets (hound, etc)
- lack of boots
- people NOT KNOWING THE WAY TO EPIC QUESTS (why the F are they running epic quests)


When I say anything about lack of preparedness in quest, people get so freaking angry they tell me to go <expletive deleted> myself. What is that about? Just don't want to get called out on it?


Why is it that raids should be able to be played without farming other quests? Personally, I like this, I've always said melee's should generally be ashamed to be in ToD without boots - you're just piking part3 basically at that point, and burdening your heal staff. Yeah, now the healers have to buck up and get boots too. Meh? (Yeah, you could put some better rewards into ToD for cleric/fvs ... but that's always been true)



The solution is don't implement this pointless nerf. Really what purpose does it serve, its not like the support classes have to give up anything special for a boots slot. Its JUST MORE GRIND.


Everything in this game is just more grind ... what's your point? What ISN'T grind in this game? That's the point of these games?

Spookyaction
01-08-2010, 02:37 AM
I don't think anyone says there should not be a prerequisite to the raid. Having to complete the 4 quest is sufficient and has precedent. The dismal drop rate of ingredients makes requiring all members of the party needing boots unreasonable. I would like to see more TOD raids not less of them.

Enochroot
01-08-2010, 02:52 AM
I don't think anyone says there should not be a prerequisite to the raid. Having to complete the 4 quest is sufficient and has precedent. The dismal drop rate of ingredients makes requiring all members of the party needing boots unreasonable. I would like to see more TOD raids not less of them.


I'm glad YOU think it's sufficient. I'm glad YOU think it's unreasonable. Personally, I don't find farming those quests all that hard, and I think it's *reasonable* for everyone to have boots. At least this way, everyone is forced to have them instead of just piking.


I'm glad we're using subjective terminology now.

Bunker
01-08-2010, 02:56 AM
I'm glad YOU think it's sufficient. I'm glad YOU think it's unreasonable. Personally, I don't find farming those quests all that hard, and I think it's *reasonable* for everyone to have boots.

Yes, it is reasonable to have every player get thier own boots. It would also be reasonable to have each boot ingredient available to loot in 2 quests.

Iron and Keepsake can be found in more then 1 quest. So should Artifact and Blood imo.

Letrii
01-08-2010, 03:05 AM
Give casters Dimensional Anchor to cast on raid members and thus negate the banish effect.

Angelus_dead
01-08-2010, 03:24 AM
part 1 is fine as it is. it is manageable for most groups, not changes are really needed
It wouldn't hurt for the traps to be disarmable, just for the sake of variety.


part 2 is where you guys really need to clean up your act. surviving the shadows are near impossible.
Yes, there is a huge game design problem with part 2: For all but 1 or 2 of the players, there is no need to even be aware of the Shadowfiends at all.

The usual result for TOD2 runs is that it is either completely simple and no problems, or it is a total immediate failure. It is exceptionally rare for someone to mess up enough to make it interesting, but not so much that there is a total wipe. Either the kiting goes perfectly, or everyone dies.

I'll repeat my old TOD2 suggestion:
1. Remove/reduce the DPS lag, which is not a myth.
2. Reduce the damage from shadowfiend cold aura.
3. Give Nytrious cold damage melee attacks, 4d6 on normal.
4. If a Shadowfiend is aggro on you, you get a blue aura and take +100% cold damage.
5. Reduce Shadowfiend hitpoints.
6. When Nytrious is damaged, all Shadowfiends share 50% of the hate.

These changes would mean that the people kiting the Shadowfiends need to be damaging them, either to kill them or just to hold aggro. If they don't damage them enough, then the highest-damage Nytrious attacker will light up blue, and he'll have to run away so the Shadowfiend doesn't get him. This way it's a two-front battle, instead of a simple fight with 1 person away kiting.

I also suggest the boss fight from Dreaming Dark be changed like that, so that the additional monsters share aggro with the boss. It is a bad sign if the raid leader tells new people: "Oh, you don't need to know anything about what happens here. Just keep meleeing the boss"



part 3 is a huge grind fest.
Yes. The core idea for the Boots of Anchoring is good: It's easy to flag for the raid, but to survive the raid better you can do a second flagging grind that is more difficult.

But the mistake is for the boots to be as important as hey are. Even with a high Will save, a repeated 5% chance to not only be prevented from fighting but also from looting the chest is too punitive. If the "banishing" were a temporary thing where you could rejoin the battle in 60-120 seconds, that might be OK.

I also suggest that TOD3 would be more fun if fighting Suulomades were helpful or otherwise attractive, such as if his chest dropped rings at 30% of the usual rate, or if he shared 50% of Horoth's hate.

Talon_Moonshadow
01-08-2010, 06:46 AM
I think it was a mistake to ever give us the boots in the first place.

But that is because of player abuse, not anything about the game itself.

Banishment belongs in D&D.

Players excluding people from LFMs because they are not geared out with loot that requires grinding, does not.

But since the devs made that unwise choice to put them in, IMO they have a responsibility to lesson the griefing in some way.

And one way to start is not make them more needed than they currently are.

A better fix should be put in in the future.

Letrii
01-08-2010, 06:49 AM
They should make it a ritual you do in Stone of Change to not deprive players of what might be a vital bonus from their normal boots.

JOTMON
01-08-2010, 07:48 AM
I would like to see an optional battle in the TOD raid that has a chance to drop bound boots as a loot reward.

Perhaps something like a lever on the ledge behind the floating Sucubus that drops a bridge or opens a passageway to a optional battle room where a named ??? is. Yes the chasm is not easily traversed but a FS or Monk or someone with a really good jump can make it across to the other side then pull the lever. The chest in here could drop a bound to character pair of boots.

This would give raid ready parties a chance to get boots within the raid and perhaps other named goodies.

JOTMON
01-08-2010, 08:12 AM
Since these are boots of anchoring....

I would like to see the boots of anchoring pick up added benefits like Immunity to slippery surfaces.
Make them useful in more places than just the TOD raid.

SquelchHU
01-08-2010, 06:57 PM
I have completed boot dropping quests around 40 times. I have 1 iron to show for it.

Now everyone needs boots? Thanks for killing ToD.

Hakushi
01-08-2010, 09:39 PM
The results of this decision are not that hard to predict. Fuirst, the number of Tower raids will drop dramatically, then, only a limited of people will run it, and always with the same characters, that means someone with boots on his cleric will end up always running his cleric in there. Next, a lot of players will be excluded from Tower raids. Now, we'll see a lot more groups forming for the quests with boots ingredients but with mitigated success because organized guilds will run this inside and won't share much because they want their members geared, and then, pugs will try but some of the quests that drop ingredients, excluding Weapons Shipment are quite tough for pug groups. Who's going to share the blood in his chest with a pug if he dosn't need it, when the same blood is selling for over 1 million plat on the AH right now. Expect the prices of these ingredients to raise up and that will make a group of people happy, our friends the plat farmers.

While I don't disagree with a greater effect of the banishment in ToD, a change is needed for the boots ingredients drop rate, and is needed badly. With all the time, I still never been able to loot a blood myself, and I'm not really interrested to pay like 1.5 million plat for one, and those boots will bind to the only character I will give them.

As someone stated, it's true Banishment belongs to D&D but in a game like this, there's other things to consider, a lot of people actually pay to play the game, a lot have a limited time to spend on the game, and want to have fun. Someone banished from a ToD raid because boots will now be mandatory will have no fun, or their fun ruined, and since their time is limited, will consider this as a waste of their time.

Now, the simple request is, increase the drop rate of boot ingredients and add a new location for ingredients to drop: Wrath of the Silver Flame, the end chest should drop mysterious artefact and blood, like Weapons Shipment drops iron and keepsake.

Also, please make Suulomades worth something in the last fight in ToD, give him a chest, with a chance to drop any of the boot ingredients. I don't think any groups currently bothers killing him now, since he dosn't give anything besides a bit of xp, and for players lvl20, it means nothing.

BlackSteel
01-09-2010, 07:28 AM
The results of this decision are not that hard to predict. Fuirst, the number of Tower raids will drop dramatically, then, only a limited of people will run it, and always with the same characters, that means someone with boots on his cleric will end up always running his cleric in there. Next, a lot of players will be excluded from Tower raids.



meh, I'd imagine not. You just build your group a little different

take 3 healers instead of a minimum of 2 (just incase 1 of them rolls a 1 on the first cast)
2 arcane (unless the first one has boots) minimum who focus exclusively on orthons
1 bard still (songs should last long enough in end fight)
and 6 melees all of which gank horoth


really I applaud the change, yes it'll suck to get banished occasionally. But really its more of a matter of asking if they have boots or a decent will save. If a crappy will save dont invite them. Its not a terrible risk trying not to roll a 1 for what? 2 to 3 castings of the spell?

As of right now, trying to get most PuG's to jump in between banishments on Khyber is like pulling teeth. I only see maybe 1 person per raid be brave enough to do it as is; even when the strategy for the group is for everyone to jump in between. Luckily I end up for 3-4 booted people everytime I throw up a LFM so its not a huge issue. But now people without boots will have a huge incentive to get on big ugly and get it done quickly.

This is a positive change for healers. As they should end up using far less resources. Not that a normal run of 50 heal scrolls is a huge expense anyway. But its currently the only content in the game where I'll use heal scrolls on my FvS; and I'd prefer just not to carry them all together.

Zerubbabel
05-06-2010, 07:28 PM
I've spent eight hours straight (not exaggerating) trying to farm ingredients for the boots (with exception of a lunch break), and haven't gotten one single ingredient to drop. I even ransacked the weapons shipment chest. Nothing, not one.

I am soooo frustrated.

I read around the forums and I heard the drop rate was increased. I'd hate to have seen it before.

jomonkey527
05-06-2010, 07:37 PM
Its one reason I almost did not renew my sub this month. Besides running Shroud,Hound, Rever,VoD, there is not enough content. Grinding for ingredients for a pair of boots is something I just wont do. Running "Wepons Shipment" hoping for the bauble I never got an ingredient drop. Heck flagging for Abbot was as much of a grind as I could handle, and most nights no one even runs it. So by Turbine doing this and not changing it back, it is basically and in all reality keeping me from accessing the full content of the game.

jomonkey527
05-06-2010, 07:38 PM
Welcome to the new generation of DnD.




"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before 3.5e

Fixed it for you. "I want the good loot, but dont want to have to run the same quests 100 times." Unless maybe this is like GroundHog Day.

Artos_Fabril
05-06-2010, 08:04 PM
Welcome to the new generation of DnD.


"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before WoTC


you people are pathetic :rolleyes:
Thing is, in PnP (if you had a good DM) you always had a challenge that was suited to the gear you had, and sometimes running away(not just kiting) was a valid option. Trying to draw that sort of equivalency between old-school D&D and a video game of any sort, no matter what it calls itself, is flawed from the get-go.

DDO is a Monty Haul hack&slash style D&D game, the worse kind, but the only one that has ever been translated into a videogame.

MsEricka
05-06-2010, 08:17 PM
Four months later and everyone that was saying DOOOooooOOOooOO000oooOOOm sees regular pugs of ToD.

I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that my paladin had her boots at level 15, or the fact that most people in this thread whine too much. And yes, at level 15 I got my bauble too.


Welcome to the new generation of DnD.

"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before WoTC

you people are pathetic

+1 rep for you for stating the obvious truth

ColinQ
05-06-2010, 09:44 PM
Was recently in a guild run consist of mostly causal players
We had 9 first timers who have a clue and know how to follow instructions and share the same language
My WF Barb being the ONLY boot owner was tasked with tanking Horoth

Last part involves 3 Wizards with enlarged spell on repairing duty, 2 Rangers chipping away at Horoth from afar
The most interesting part was for the ranger to grab Sally’s agro when she drop (since no melee want to go into banish range), but killing sally was a no brainer as we had a bunch of DSP that was just playing around with trash.

Very time consuming and resources intensive yes, but it can be done with adequate planning and people who listen (the party all agreed to all chip in on the pots and scroll usage ahead of time)



The average PUG on sarlona normally consist of a few more booted characters and is generally easier in that perspective, the most challenging part being to communication with people not being fluent English speakers

As a general FYI for those who PUG a lot with heavy Chinese composition
Pangzi means Orthon/Jailer (translation: Fat guy)
Xiaohui means Judge/Sally (transition: Grey looking guy)

I’ve seen more than one wipe in part 1 with people running to the wrong places, which is the second largest contributor of wipes (first being kiting in part2)

Zerubbabel
05-06-2010, 11:35 PM
Welcome to the new generation of DnD.




"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before WoTC




you people are pathetic :rolleyes:

Dude I played Dnd since the 80's. Spending a week of my life to grind out a crappy pair of situational boots is not DnD at all.

Also I have good equipment and I worked hard for it.

Some people have a thing called a life and cant spend that long in front of a PC. Insulting people because they want to have fun, or benefit from their game time, is pathetic.

I spent a whole day trying for ingredients. I'd been happy if I only got a couple, but I spent all day and got nothing. My character is level 20, so I got no experience. In fact my loot I got today was pretty junk too. I could have sat on the crapper all day and gotten more satisfaction out of life.

I will tell you what IS pathetic... the fact that I am logging in again (as we speak) and I'm gonna try some more... now THAT is pathetic.

sirgog
05-07-2010, 01:06 AM
Four months later and everyone that was saying DOOOooooOOOooOO000oooOOOm sees regular pugs of ToD.

I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that my paladin had her boots at level 15, or the fact that most people in this thread whine too much. And yes, at level 15 I got my bauble too.



+1 rep for you for stating the obvious truth

Regular PUGs of ToD?

I see even worse problems than when Update 3 came out.

Powergamers have their perfect ring(s), and have it/them upgraded. They have no interest in running the raid except hard/elite with Suulo, shooting for +4 tomes. These aren't PUGged at all.

PUG groups seldom fill, primetime or offpeak.

Plenty of level 20s have no completions of ToD, have heard of it, are sufficiently geared to take it on and are skilled enough to beat the raid (maybe even on Hard), haven't won the Boots lottery, and don't run this because every PUG that runs is 'boots only'.

I can fill an Elite Shroud more quickly than I can fill a ToD run, and Shroud has no incentive to run on Elite except for fun (and once for favor).

AylinIsAwesome
05-07-2010, 01:51 AM
Regular PUGs of ToD?

I see even worse problems than when Update 3 came out.

Powergamers have their perfect ring(s), and have it/them upgraded. They have no interest in running the raid except hard/elite with Suulo, shooting for +4 tomes. These aren't PUGged at all.

PUG groups seldom fill, primetime or offpeak.

Plenty of level 20s have no completions of ToD, have heard of it, are sufficiently geared to take it on and are skilled enough to beat the raid (maybe even on Hard), haven't won the Boots lottery, and don't run this because every PUG that runs is 'boots only'.

I can fill an Elite Shroud more quickly than I can fill a ToD run, and Shroud has no incentive to run on Elite except for fun (and once for favor).

I'd have to second this. I've seen LFMs for ToD be up for close to an hour with less than 7 people, before it disbands, that is.

KillEveryone
05-07-2010, 05:14 AM
Welcome to the new generation of DnD.




"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before WoTC




you people are pathetic :rolleyes:

Personally I don't mind working for stuff. I work for all the stuff I have in real life and I work hard for it. I work for stuff in the game and I'm still working for stuff.

In D&D, I have never had to grind for stuff. If a quest was difficult, the DM would make sure that the appropriate reward was there. Maybe not what I specifically wanted, but it would be useful and I would still feel that the reward was appropriate because the stuff would be nice. If I had to get specific gear and make something specific to complete the overall goal of a very long campaing, then the DM would make sure I got the specific ingrediant to make what I needed to finish. The quest would be a challenge and it would also be fun, but I wouldn't have to rerun that quest over and over until the DM decided to put in the ingrediant in as the reward.

Grinding sucks. It is long. It is boring. It sucks the fun out of those quests. I wouldn't mind a higher drop rate for ingrediants.

Take Shroud. I have 36 completions with many ransacks. I still need another 24 completions to get a couple of clensing stones and will probably need more just to get all the larges I need and I complete at least 2 times a week depending upon my real life work schedule. This is for just 1 character. I still have 2 characters that TWF, a cleric, a spellsinger, still need to equip my wiz since I'm shifting larges to my bard to get those items completed. I like Shroud over all but it is loosing some of its fun appeal from the grind but I want GS so I keep running it.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-07-2010, 06:08 AM
This boot issue really bothers me. But I blame the players more than the devs.

I completed ToD only once....soon after the mod came out. Never attempted again, mostly due to LFM's requiring boots. Or having some other elitist comments.

My current plans are to knock out the two or three Amrath quests that I do not have on elite yet, and then see if I have enough for my boots. Or see if by some miracle, I can afford the AH prices. (which I doubt)

Eventually I may have to put up my own LFM. Which will say something like "no boots or experiance necessary." Cause that is what I believe in.

I hate putting up LFMs and I really wish I don't get forced into leading when I have so little experience in the quest. But that is what it is down to.

And the worst part is an LFM like that may never fill. Cause few players are willing to try anything difficult.

I'm real unsure of the game mechanics here, but his banishment does get a save...right? And we have ways to beef up saves....right?
Spell Resistance applies?

And my favorite: so if you get banished, you still got some chests along the way to the end fight right? And you're still flagged? And you can join the next LFM and just try again? And from what I see only the clerics ever use their own resources anyway....so....what is every one else's excuse for not trying? What, you just spent 10mil on the AH a minute ago and can't afford the repair bill? I know your lvl 20 can't be still trying to play that XP/min card.....

I actually think the banishment should stay and the boots should be taken out of the game. As long as there is a defense against it, and I think there is..a la saving throws...

Just bothers me that people won't take risks in this game.
Seems most adventurers aren't very adventurous. :(

sirgog
05-07-2010, 06:09 AM
Personally I don't mind working for stuff. I work for all the stuff I have in real life and I work hard for it. I work for stuff in the game and I'm still working for stuff.

In D&D, I have never had to grind for stuff. If a quest was difficult, the DM would make sure that the appropriate reward was there. Maybe not what I specifically wanted, but it would be useful and I would still feel that the reward was appropriate because the stuff would be nice. If I had to get specific gear and make something specific to complete the overall goal of a very long campaing, then the DM would make sure I got the specific ingrediant to make what I needed to finish. The quest would be a challenge and it would also be fun, but I wouldn't have to rerun that quest over and over until the DM decided to put in the ingrediant in as the reward.

Grinding sucks. It is long. It is boring. It sucks the fun out of those quests. I wouldn't mind a higher drop rate for ingrediants.

Take Shroud. I have 36 completions with many ransacks. I still need another 24 completions to get a couple of clensing stones and will probably need more just to get all the larges I need and I complete at least 2 times a week depending upon my real life work schedule. This is for just 1 character. I still have 2 characters that TWF, a cleric, a spellsinger, still need to equip my wiz since I'm shifting larges to my bard to get those items completed. I like Shroud over all but it is loosing some of its fun appeal from the grind but I want GS so I keep running it.

Running somewhat challenging content for loot I want - I'm fine with that.

Running somewhat challenging content for loot I don't want, but can trade to others for loot I do want (example: farming Dragon Scales when the cap was 14) - sounds good.

Farming easy content (anyone capable of running ToD finds Bastion and Weapons Shipment easy) over and over for low drop rate items - ugh.

oberon131313
05-07-2010, 06:13 AM
Was recently in a guild run consist of mostly causal players
We had 9 first timers who have a clue and know how to follow instructions and share the same language
My WF Barb being the ONLY boot owner was tasked with tanking Horoth

Last part involves 3 Wizards with enlarged spell on repairing duty, 2 Rangers chipping away at Horoth from afar
The most interesting part was for the ranger to grab Sally’s agro when she drop (since no melee want to go into banish range), but killing sally was a no brainer as we had a bunch of DSP that was just playing around with trash.

Very time consuming and resources intensive yes, but it can be done with adequate planning and people who listen (the party all agreed to all chip in on the pots and scroll usage ahead of time)



The average PUG on sarlona normally consist of a few more booted characters and is generally easier in that perspective, the most challenging part being to communication with people not being fluent English speakers

As a general FYI for those who PUG a lot with heavy Chinese composition
Pangzi means Orthon/Jailer (translation: Fat guy)
Xiaohui means Judge/Sally (transition: Grey looking guy)

I’ve seen more than one wipe in part 1 with people running to the wrong places, which is the second largest contributor of wipes (first being kiting in part2)
whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.






You found 3 wizards with enlarge?

Lorien_the_First_One
05-07-2010, 06:18 AM
Welcome to the new generation of DnD.

"I WANT THE GOOD LOOT BUT I DONT WANNA WORK FOR IT"-anyone who never played DnD before WoTC


You are going to compare this to a classic TSR D&D game? Back then your DM made you run the exact same quest dozens of times and told you eventually you might or might not find something that you need to let you move on to the next module?

Its fine you enjoy stupid grinding, but the boot mechanic doesn't have anything to do with TSR D&D. If you needed boots to fight the big guy your DM would have made sure you had em.