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Slaynen
01-06-2010, 05:05 PM
Hi everyone !

My question is quite simple : Do protection of element and resist energy stack together ?

Rationnal : Prot. from element give immunity for 12 point per lvl of dmg then wear off and Resist energy cancel the first 20-30pt of damage of a type of energy.

For exemple: i cast Resist energy Fire (lvl 11) that cancel the first 30pt of dmg and i cast prot. from element that give me immunity for 140 dmg (lvl 11). A fire trap cause me 150 Dmg... so the total hit point is 150 - 30 (resist) =130 that is absorb by prot. from element Or (if resist dont stack) i take 10 pt of dmg (150 - 140)

So does these two stack ??

Thx

Phidius
01-06-2010, 05:10 PM
Since they both do different things, I guess you could say they stack.

The important thing to remember is that your Protection is applied first, then Resistance.

Example: You have a Prot: Fire (120) and Resist:Fire (30) on.

If you are hit by a scorching ray for 40 points, your Prot:Fire becomes (80) - no Resist is applied.

If you are hit by a scorching ray for 151 points, your Prot:Fire goes away (absorbed 120 points), your Resist Energy absorbs 30 points, and you take 1 point.

Kale_Hagan
01-06-2010, 05:12 PM
Damage goes against protection first, and then what's left over goes against resist.

Example:

You have resist fire 10 and protection from energy: fire with 20 points left.

A fireball hits you for 50 points of damage.

First, 20 points are subtracted from the damage and your protection from fire is gone.

then 10 points get subtracted from your resist fire.

You then take 20 points of damage.

If you make your reflex save, that is calculated before the damage is applied, i.e. you would have taken 25 points, minus 20 for protection, 5 for the resist, and no damage gets through.

Phidius
01-06-2010, 05:13 PM
...

If you have evasion, that is calculated before the damage is applied, i.e. if you have evasion and made the save, you would have taken 25 points, minus 20 for protection, 5 for the resist, and no damage gets through.

Actually, if you have evasion and you make the save, you take 0 damage.

hydra_ex
01-06-2010, 05:13 PM
Which would mean that at lower difficulties, resist is much better than protect (as one casting grants, in most cases, 100% immunity, and in others, close to it). However, on higher difficulties (Shroud hard, ToD hard, epic), both need to be kept up, to avoid taking as much damage as possible.

Kale_Hagan
01-06-2010, 05:14 PM
Actually, if you have evasion and you make the save, you take 0 damage.

Duh, had a brain fart there. I was thinking a failed save with improved evasion. my bad. Ignore that stuff about evasion. Reply has been edited for reflex save.

TheDjinnFor
01-06-2010, 05:18 PM
Hi everyone !

My question is quite simple : Do protection of element and resist energy stack together ?

Rationnal : Prot. from element give immunity for 12 point per lvl of dmg then wear off and Resist energy cancel the first 20-30pt of damage of a type of energy.

For exemple: i cast Resist energy Fire (lvl 11) that cancel the first 30pt of dmg and i cast prot. from element that give me immunity for 140 dmg (lvl 11). A fire trap cause me 150 Dmg... so the total hit point is 150 - 30 (resist) =130 that is absorb by prot. from element Or (if resist dont stack) i take 10 pt of dmg (150 - 140)

So does these two stack ??

Thx

Well, you'd still take no damage IIRC, but they don't stack. In a nutshell, PfE eats the full force of the energy, regardless of your resist; then, once it's all gone, RE starts up and protects you from then on. The key thing is, they're both activated, but PfE eats up the full force of the damage and then the rest is passed to you where DR and RE would still apply. If I recall correctly.

But, uh, just to let you know, PfE caps at 120, so you can't get 140. What would happen is, PfE would take 120 damage, and wear out, then RE would protect you from the remaining 30 damage. But if you were to, say, get hit with a 120-fireball, all 120 points would be absorbed by the PfE, and you'd still lose it; and in the case of a 100-point fireball, you'd have 20 points left on your PfE.

So no, they can't really stack, because PfE takes the damage before any affects on you kick in, including special affects for taking damage, damage reduction, and energy resistance.

Beld
01-06-2010, 05:27 PM
the Prot takes the full 120, but the resist takes 30 of that as well, so a 150pt blast would still do 30 pts of damage and if you were hit again with a 150pt blast, your resist would stop the first 30, rendering it 120 pts of damage.

I had been under the impression it worked with Prot taking the damage first and resist taking over after that as well, but as I said, I was told that was wrong, so am currently working under the new information (I haven't had time to go play with it as of yet to actually get hard data).

Cedwin
01-06-2010, 05:27 PM
Remember when Protection used to work just like Resistance? 120 fire resist for 20 minutes. :D

sirgog
01-06-2010, 07:15 PM
the Prot takes the full 120, but the resist takes 30 of that as well, so a 150pt blast would still do 30 pts of damage and if you were hit again with a 150pt blast, your resist would stop the first 30, rendering it 120 pts of damage.

I had been under the impression it worked with Prot taking the damage first and resist taking over after that as well, but as I said, I was told that was wrong, so am currently working under the new information (I haven't had time to go play with it as of yet to actually get hard data).

They actually 'stack' in the worst possible way.

Whichever prevents more damage (in most cases Protection) is the only one that applies, but the Protection spell's ablative shield is depleted anyway.

Examples:

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 120, hit for 6 points fire damage: No damage suffered, you have Resist 30 Prot 114 left.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 114, hit for 106 fire damage: No damage suffered, you have Resist 30 Prot 8 leftover.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 8, hit for 20 fire damage: No damage suffered, your Prot Fire wears off.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 120, hit for 400 fire damage: 280 damage suffered, Prot Fire gone.

The last one can be clearly seen by reading your combat log while battling Arraetrikos as a non-melee (you'll see a message like 'Save failed. You were hit by Arraetrikos' DBF for 280 points of fire damage, 120 was blocked by your fire resistance)'

honkuimushi
01-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Remember when Protection used to work just like Resistance? 120 fire resist for 20 minutes. :D

Actually, it wasn't quite like that. I believe that Protection made you immune to danage from that element. It might have been resist 120, but at that time there wasn't much that could do 120 points of damage per tick. I think Velah could, but her dispelling breath would usually strip it away pretty quickly.

But in return, the duration was lower. At level 10, Extended, I believe it was about 3 or 4 minutes. Also, you couldn't memorize Protection from Elements, You had to memorize Protection from Fire, Protection from Cold, etc.-- separately. The same thing applied to Resist Elements which made it pretty worthless except for acid. 20 minutes of Resist Fire 20 wasn't that valuable because when you needed it, Protection was so much better. Outside the Fire Caves and Taming the Flames you usually got hit in bursts of 30 -60 damage, not constant low level fire damage.

Temet
01-07-2010, 07:39 AM
Actually, it wasn't quite like that. I believe that Protection made you immune to danage from that element.

Pretty sure this is right, I used to run SD on elite a good bit at launch and the final Fire Reaver couldn't get through the Prot (ditto with everything else, like that Fire Giant in that last level 14 Threnal quest). I miss that, the new Protection well... isn't. (don't recall the lower duration, but I remember having to memorize each type separately and I quit playing before the Dragon came out so never ran it with real Prot.)

Cedwin
01-07-2010, 08:15 AM
Actually, it wasn't quite like that. I believe that Protection made you immune to danage from that element. It might have been resist 120, but at that time there wasn't much that could do 120 points of damage per tick. I think Velah could, but her dispelling breath would usually strip it away pretty quickly.


Ah yeah, I remember now. It was basically fire immunity, but it was pretty short. Sort of like Displacement is to Blur now. They changed that back in late 2007, and my memory isn't what it used to be. :o

Cauthey
05-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Sorry for the necro, but this appeared to be the thread with the information that I Was seeking...


They actually 'stack' in the worst possible way.

Whichever prevents more damage (in most cases Protection) is the only one that applies, but the Protection spell's ablative shield is depleted anyway.

Examples:

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 120, hit for 6 points fire damage: No damage suffered, you have Resist 30 Prot 114 left.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 114, hit for 106 fire damage: No damage suffered, you have Resist 30 Prot 8 leftover.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 8, hit for 20 fire damage: No damage suffered, your Prot Fire wears off.

Resist Fire 30, Prot Fire 120, hit for 400 fire damage: 280 damage suffered, Prot Fire gone.
The last one can be clearly seen by reading your combat log while battling Arraetrikos as a non-melee (you'll see a message like 'Save failed. You were hit by Arraetrikos' DBF for 280 points of fire damage, 120 was blocked by your fire resistance)'

Are these examples still valid? In the last example, I had presumed that Protection 120 would burn off, and then Resistance would also reduce part of the damage suffered, bringing it to 250 file damage suffered.

Though, based on the examples, it would seem that Resistance and Protection both "work" at the same time, and not in an "applied order."

My question about elemental damage is: does your saving throw modify the damage (save for half damage) before protection/resist applies, or after? Based on the commentary that I've seen with regard to characters with evasion, it would seem that the saving through happens before protection and resist work.

thewalex
05-26-2011, 12:54 PM
My question about elemental damage is: does your saving throw modify the damage (save for half damage) before protection/resist applies, or after? Based on the commentary that I've seen with regard to characters with evasion, it would seem that the saving through happens before protection and resist work.

I'm pretty sure it's intended for your saving throw/evasion happens first. I know if works that way in P&P for sure.

I am also guessing that absorption from a shroud item or other named item (Firestorm Greaves, Ring of the Djinn) and absorption from Fire Shield happens after protection and after resistance (last thing before damage is applied)?

Edit: I think this thread answers all of our questions: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=238890

soulaeon
05-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Why are there so many long responses to a simple question lol.

One is damage reduction, and the other is mitigation. Use them together for best results.
It's like asking if Stone Skin stacks with your armor. They have different functions for the same goal.