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jboyd158
01-05-2010, 05:33 PM
Scorpion Wraith (5-level PrC)
Requires: BAB 4, Knowledge (Nature) 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Feat: Blind-Fight, Feat: Improved Initiative, Wild Empathy

BAB progression: Full
Hit dice: d8s.
Saves: Reflex good, Fort and Will poor

Features-
Poison use: Cannot accidentally poison self
Sudden Strike: As sneak attack, but flanking doesn't automatically grant the extra damage. 1d6 at each odd level
Wild Empathy: Scorpion Wraith levels stack with levels of another class that grants Wild Empathy, your Wild Empathy can affect vermin
Darkness: Use Darkness as spell-like ability 3/day, stacks with Drow Darkness SLA
Unexpected Assault: +4 to Initiative in surprise rounds if you are able to act
Veil of Shadow: While in darkness or shadows, gain bonus to sneak equal to Scorpion Wraith level
Perfect Sight: 1/day gain blindsight 60' and +10 Spot/Listen for 5 + Wis mod rounds
Sculpt Shadow: Can create 8 contiguous squares of shadows with Darkness instead of a burst centered on an object, one square must be adjacent to you
Deadly Sting: Standard action coats slashing or piercing weapon in liquid shadow poison (1d10 con damage primary, secondary 1d10 con damage, DC 15 + Wis mod)

According to the Devs, Drow re going to be able to take Scorpion Wraith as a Prestige Enhancement line. Here are some suggestions for the tiers.

Scorpion Wraith I (Cost: 4)
Prerequisites: Drow 6; Elven Dexterity I; Elven Spot I; Elven Listen I; Stealthy -or- Monk: Move Silently I and Monk: Hide I -or- Rogue: Move Silently I and Rogue: Hide I -or- Ranger: Move Silently I and Ranger: Hide I
You have taken the first steps onto the path to becoming a Scorpion Wraith. You gain a +2 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, 1d3 sneak attack damage, and you gain the Vermin Empathy ability. You also generate a shadowy presence around yourself, giving you a 5% concealment chance to avoid melee and ranged attacks. (This does stack with Blur, but not Displacement)

Scorpion Wraith II (Cost: 2)
Prerequisites: Drow 12; Elven Spot II; Elven Listen II; Slicing Blow
You are well on your way on the path of the Scorpion Wraith. You gain an additional +1 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, an additional 1d3 sneak attack damage, and you become immune to stat damage and other effects caused by poison. You also generate an even shadowy presence around yourself, giving you a 10% concealment chance to avoid melee and ranged attacks. (This does stack with Blur, but not Displacement)

Scorpion Wraith III (Cost: 2)
Prerequisites: Drow 18; Elven Dexterity II; Weapon Focus: Slashing -or- Weapon Focus: Piercing
You are a master of the path of the Scorpion Wraith. You gain an additional +2 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, an additional 1d3 sneak attack damage, and you gain the ability to coat your slashing and piercing weapons in poison that deals 1d10 constitution damage on a failed fortitude save. On a successful save, it instead deals 1 constitution damage. (DC: 10+Level+Wisdom Modifier) You also generate a vortex of night around yourself, giving you a 15% concealment chance to avoid melee and ranged attacks. (This does stack with Blur, but not Displacement)


(Bolded were added or changed.)
Any suggestions are welcomed.

WeaselKing
01-05-2010, 05:42 PM
Change the extra wild empathy to extra vermin empathy and remove the concealment bonus to allies and I think you have the start of a good Drow PrE. The stealthy pre-req might need to go, or at least give an alternate pre-req for that.

jboyd158
01-05-2010, 05:47 PM
Change the extra wild empathy to extra vermin empathy and remove the concealment bonus to allies and I think you have the start of a good Drow PrE. The stealthy pre-req might need to go, or at least give an alternate pre-req for that.

For the concealment I could see making it always stack and not effect allies. As for the Empathy, I think it should be a pre-req for Vermin so you need the pre-reqs that there are now, -or- Scorpion Wraith I. As for Stealthy, I could see making it Stealthy, Monk Hide/MS or Ranger Hide/MS.

toughguyjoe
01-05-2010, 05:57 PM
i think Stealthy is a good feat for this PRE enhancement line to require as a fluff feat usually increases the potential of the PRE line itself, since you had to sacrifice an entire feat slot to get it.

As for Sneak attack damage, I hihgly doubt the Devs would put 3d6 Sneak attack damage into an enhancement line.

I know its not that big of an increase, but given a Drow Multiclass rogue build it might make it a little too easy for them to catch back up to a closer to pure Rogue.

Good ideas though.

I think this PRE is going to be pretty good, just wondering exactly how they are going to implement it, the shadow stuff could be really fun to play with.

You know, they might just ive the Drow a limited use ShadowWalk type ability. Who knows.

jboyd158
01-05-2010, 05:58 PM
i think Stealthy is a good feat for this PRE enhancement line to require as a fluff feat usually increases the potential of the PRE line itself, since you had to sacrifice an entire feat slot to get it.

As for Sneak attack damage, I hihgly doubt the Devs would put 3d6 Sneak attack damage into an enhancement line.

I know its not that big of an increase, but given a Drow Multiclass rogue build it might make it a little too easy for them to catch back up to a closer to pure Rogue.

Good ideas though.

I think this PRE is going to be pretty good, just wondering exactly how they are going to implement it, the shadow stuff could be really fun to play with.

You know, they might just ive the Drow a limited use ShadowWalk type ability. Who knows.

Thing is that it is encouraged not to be used by rogues, because then they lack access to Assassin and Acrobat, and to a lesser extent Mechanic.

hydra_ex
01-05-2010, 06:07 PM
Way to overpowered.

15% is much too powerful.

So is 4d6 SA (its more than the halfling line, and that costs more APs!), and 1d10 CON.

Make the concealment 10% at most, or make it partially stack with blur (7.5% concealment, 7.5% transmutation).
You become more incorporeal.
Limit the SA to 3 more damage. The 1d10 CON should only be 1 CON on a crit; its more in line with the rogue's crippling strike ability.

jboyd158
01-05-2010, 06:16 PM
15% is much too powerful.

So is 2d6 SA (its more than the halfling line, and that costs more APs!), and 1d10 CON.

Make the concealment 10% at most, and limit the SA to 3 more damage. The 1d10 CON should only be 1 CON on a crit; its more in line with the rogue's crippling strike ability.

Well what is so over-powered about 3d6 being open to Drow who forgo Assassin/Acrobat? That or they need to be a non-sneak attacking class. The concealment isn't really that bad when you think about it. Solo, you probably won't have Displacement, and 35% isn't that strong, and in a group/raid you should have a tank and shouldn't be swung at anyway. 1d10 Con damage would have a Wis based save, which I just realized I didn't put in ther. (Thanks for the reminder.)

hydra_ex
01-05-2010, 06:22 PM
10.5 SA damage? From an enhancement? Others give numbers no greater than 4. This class would almost invalidate any non-drow rogue. 5 SA damage at the very most.

65% concealment is much too powerful. 57.5% is being generous. For solo... you got blur wands, which makes it 27.5%, still substantial.

And the save should be 10+ 1/2 lvl, so keep more in line with other abilities. 30 DC with a 10 wisdom is enough to land on every hit. Also, make it a requirement to be sneaking, just like assassinate. This has the benefit of being a will save, so its easier to land.

jboyd158
01-05-2010, 06:25 PM
10.5 SA damage? From an enhancement? Others give numbers no greater than 4. This class would almost invalidate any non-drow rogue. 5 SA damage at the very most.

65% concealment is much too powerful. 57.5% is being generous. For solo... you got blur wands, which makes it 27.5%, still substantial.

I guess you are right about the concealment stacking with Displacement, but blur isn't to bad...
Not really sure about the Sneak Attack though. Set numbers are just boring and I guess 3d6 is too generous... any ideas?

Symar-FangofLloth
01-05-2010, 06:28 PM
Yeah the Sneak attack should be maybe, +3 damage at T1, +1 to-hit at T2, and increase to +4/+2 at T3.

And how much of that blur bonus is or isn't stacking? It's currently reading 5%(does stack) / 10%(doesn't stack) / 15%(does stack).
Is it supposed to be 5/10/15%, never stacking? That'd be okay; a perma-blur, almost. But not super useful once you've people casting Blur/Displacement all over. Unless part of it stacks...

And this is a "Rogue" PrE? Meaning available to Drow, but Drow Rogues can't pick this AND a normal Rogue one?

jboyd158
01-05-2010, 06:31 PM
Yeah the Sneak attack should be maybe, +3 damage at T1, +1 to-hit at T2, and increase to +4/+2 at T3.

And how much of that blur bonus is or isn't stacking? It's currently reading 5%(does stack) / 10%(doesn't stack) / 15%(does stack).
Is it supposed to be 5/10/15%, never stacking? That'd be okay; a perma-blur, almost. But not super useful once you've people casting Blur/Displacement all over. Unless part of it stacks...

And this is a "Rogue" PrE? Meaning available to Drow, but Drow Rogues can't pick this AND a normal Rogue one?

I have a hatred of set numbers when it comes to damage bonuses... they just kill the fun for me. Maybe 1d4 per tier?
As for Blurring, it was a typo. It was supposed to be 5%->10%->15% all stacking now only with blur.

You are right there. No Assassin or Acrobat if you take Wraith.

MrCow
01-05-2010, 06:41 PM
Not really sure about the Sneak Attack though. Set numbers are just boring and I guess 3d6 is too generous... any ideas?

Change it from 1d6 Sneak Attack damage per tier to 1d6 Sudden Strike damage per tier?

Symar-FangofLloth
01-05-2010, 08:08 PM
But
Sudden Strike applies when the target is denied dex.
Sneak Attack applies when the target is denied dex, or is being flanked.

So it's a bonus to stunned/held/etc. mobs only, if you do it like that. At least that's how I would interpret it given the nature of this game.