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Salsa
01-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Where to start....

Love the game, nothing better out there that I have seen (well except maybe for the crafting part).

I will list groupings with #'s the letters for explantions

IE

Food:

1) I like cheesburgers
a) because they have cheese


Ok..

Korthos: My main problem with Korthos, it takes a while to beat some of the gear found there and gear award jump like mad. I have 4 items I still wear at 7th that I used in Korthos

1) lose the crudy gear in the tutorial IE moldy/rusty/worn etc.
a) they don't appear anywhere else, why have a dozen items that get replaced in the first 15 minutes?
b) replace with normal already damaged gear (IE lower the durability)

2) reduce tutorial rewards.
a) lose the ring of water breathing, make it a reward for another quest, why a water breathing creature has one is odd
i) make a small quest to retrieve a small chest from a sunken ship, quest giver gives the ring to get the chest, has to fight a handful of Shaugain and brings chest back and gets to keep the ring. If the aim is to allow players only 1 ring, make it non repeatable. A simpler solution is give it a random chance to drop from the High Cultist in Sacerfices
b) lose the Ember items in the tutorial, it's silly seeing 30 level 1's jumping around with flaming weapons
i) replace with some useful potions or mw item

3) Change Korthos rewards
a) lose the DR items from Korthos, replace with items like the Bracers of Assistance IE Bracers of Mage Armor and Bracers of Cure Light Wounds ie simple lvl 1 spell 1/day. DR items really have no place at such a low level honestly and Korthos is pretty darn easy as it is


Shrines:

4) lose Shrines
a) I would lose the shrines and just keep the blue fire places. So many shrines don't really make sense. Call them Easily Defendable Area or some such. The code behind the clicky should be easy enough to know if a ghost clicks it then rez, if not then rest.

5) Rezzing
a) One alternative that might be considered is instead of auto rezzing is adding a component (not not the diamond) Possibly Siberys or Khyber Shards. Given this would more adversely affect newer players you could make an option of using residual dust at the place (IE greater rez penalty but doesn't require shards) or alternatively use of shards boost your hps to say 1/4 of max.


Shops:

6) please stack like items
a) obviously there is a DB somewhere behind all this code, would it be so hard to stack ie if the shop has 5 identical +1 swords then show just one, if that one is bought another takes it's place. It gets old scrolling past 10 items each with 5-6 'copies' each. I only need to see 1 of each identical item to know if I want to buy it (yes by identical I also mean durability)

Balancing: (disclaimer this probably just bothers me from PnP, maybe it works for here, iii explains the bother)

7) I would suggest relooking at your balancing of items. IE I had a +1 mace and +1 armor up to 4th lvl or so, then I jumped to a +3 weapon and +4 armor without blinking. I suspect once I get to 9th I will have nothing but +5's and just be hunting for '+5's with specific additionals' ( I can afford +5 for a while, I just don't meet lvl reqs)
i) recheck loot tables and make more of a progression
ii) consider adding more RL's, this would also affect outrageous AH prices I would imagine
iii) items available to characters should be somewhat inline with the magic available for their level ie if a caster can cast a spell to add +2 ac they should expect around +2 items, maybe +3, not +5


Crafting:

8) Yes, it has been beat to death but one more wack I say! Consider adding non unbalancing crafting now.
i) add base metal/leather/crafting based on dropables so players can combine various elements found ie 6 ingots of fine steel and a gem to make a mw longsword. Limit craftables to max mw for now to test the system.
ii) this allows a chance to work on bugs and how the system will work, I don't see DDO as being a go out and mine/chop/hunt game, given the current crafting I suspect just collecting craftables and dropping them into the Stone of Change is the method
iii) gives gems a use, require X amount in gold of gems for items, in the future, require mw items to make magic items when crafting matures
iiii) consider a craftables bag :)


Monsters: besides the normal requests

9) where are the giant bugs? giant rats after Korthos? Seems odd we have giant spiders but no beetles, ants etc. Also a city as big and rundown as SR should have at least some rats in the sewers. (maybe rats are the food source for the city under the city?)

Doors:

10) please, if you are going to have something alive on the otherside of a door, shouldn't there be a way to open/close it from their side?


Monster oddities:

11) IE how do you lock a rust monster behind a metal door? really....


More traps!

12) add smarter traps. Traps are currently very straight forward they hurt you. There are other options and would give another non lethal method to challenge players
i) add pit traps, you have shown you have the ability to make floors fall, nice deep pit, maybe spikes at the bottom
ii) chute traps, darn, party member hits trap and gets 'chutted' into a holding cell on the floor below behind a locked door, obviously less harmful to people with OL or knock but would add variety
iii) teleport trap, nothing says headache like a pressure plate that makes a character appear somewhere else
iiii) debuffing traps, trap gets triggered and target gets hit by a varying level dispel magic
v) spiked wall trap...oh please add this......section of walled spikes hit characters in an area
vi) random traps...add more traps, then add a random toggle switch for the trap to be on or off, the toggle switch also determines if the trap/switch can be found. That way, players never quite know exactly what the traps will be and where (they may know eventually all the combos of locations)
vii) randomize elemental damage, maybe it does fire the first trip, maybe sprays ice the next time....who knows?




Major Disclaimer:

I don't expect people to agree and I fully endorse new content before these ideas, these are just things to consider. Yes I know some of these would require alot of reprogramming.


Thanks

:: puts his protection from fire gear on::

MrCow
01-01-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm only addressing the trap section.


12) add smarter traps. Traps are currently very straight forward they hurt you. There are other options and would give another non lethal method to challenge players
i) add pit traps, you have shown you have the ability to make floors fall, nice deep pit, maybe spikes at the bottom
ii) chute traps, darn, party member hits trap and gets 'chutted' into a holding cell on the floor below behind a locked door, obviously less harmful to people with OL or knock but would add variety
iii) teleport trap, nothing says headache like a pressure plate that makes a character appear somewhere else
iiii) debuffing traps, trap gets triggered and target gets hit by a varying level dispel magic
v) spiked wall trap...oh please add this......section of walled spikes hit characters in an area
vi) random traps...add more traps, then add a random toggle switch for the trap to be on or off, the toggle switch also determines if the trap/switch can be found. That way, players never quite know exactly what the traps will be and where (they may know eventually all the combos of locations)
vii) randomize elemental damage, maybe it does fire the first trip, maybe sprays ice the next time....who knows?

Pit traps exist in several places, including A Cry for Help, The Crucible, The Enemy Within, and other places.

While we don't have "chute" traps, we have "locked in" traps already in places like Lair of Summoning, Keeper's Sanctuary, and several other places.

We have teleport traps, the most noted are in Rainbow in the Dark. Likewise, we have gust traps that are used to some clever degree in places like And the Dead Shall Rise to knock people off of high places.

Dispel as a trap came in with the Path of Inspiration and Epic Difficulty (Mordenkaiden Orbs).

Spiked Wall traps exist in places like Foundation of Discord (one of my favorite traps in how it gets triggered).

A large amount of quests made past module 2 (Demon Sands and on) started featuring semi-random traps, in that the quest has a large amount of traps but only a few were made active for the quest.



The only thing on that list that doesn't really exist in DDO are traps that may be of a random elemental form of damage. The rest you will find by simply journeying more through DDO.

Kaervas
01-01-2010, 03:09 PM
Regarding traps:
In red.


More traps!

12) add smarter traps. Traps are currently very straight forward they hurt you. There are other options and would give another non lethal method to challenge players Absolutely agreed.
i) add pit traps, you have shown you have the ability to make floors fall, nice deep pit, maybe spikes at the bottom There are many of these later on.
ii) chute traps, darn, party member hits trap and gets 'chutted' into a holding cell on the floor below behind a locked door, obviously less harmful to people with OL or knock but would add variety Chutes would be nice.
iii) teleport trap, nothing says headache like a pressure plate that makes a character appear somewhere else These exist but currently only in one dungeon that I can remember (Rainbow in the Dark).
iiii) debuffing traps, trap gets triggered and target gets hit by a varying level dispel magic They exist at higher levels. They're annoying.
v) spiked wall trap...oh please add this......section of walled spikes hit characters in an area They exist.
vi) random traps...add more traps, then add a random toggle switch for the trap to be on or off, the toggle switch also determines if the trap/switch can be found. That way, players never quite know exactly what the traps will be and where (they may know eventually all the combos of locations) There are a fair number of dungeons which have random trap locations. Not entirely random, but a large selection of areas which may or may not have a trap.
vii) randomize elemental damage, maybe it does fire the first trip, maybe sprays ice the next time....who knows? It would be alright to have this, I'd prefer more imaginative traps than just random elements though.


@ MrCow
Didn't dispel traps come in earlier? Subterrane has them.

MrCow
01-01-2010, 03:11 PM
MrCow
Didn't dispel traps come in earlier? Subterrane has them.

Actually even earlier (The Shroud, Part 3). However, those can't be disabled.

Kaervas
01-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Ah yeah. I guess that's true. They're more like an avoided-once-learned dungeon feature than a proper trap.

Salsa
01-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the trap info!

Kaervas
01-01-2010, 04:02 PM
As for the rest of the suggestions:


Korthos: My main problem with Korthos, it takes a while to beat some of the gear found there and gear award jump like mad. I have 4 items I still wear at 7th that I used in Korthos

I still use the Archivist's necklace in emergencies at level 20 (for the tiny amount of SP refill, handy for teleport/greater teleport when you're completely dry of SP).

I think it's fine that some nice gear can be gained there that lasts a long time, since it's the first experience players have in DDO now and if all you got out of it was some masterwork junk it wouldn't feel very appealing. It's not like PnP where upgrading from mundane gear to masterwork gear was a milestone, the pacing of character advancement here is a lot quicker.



1) lose the crudy gear in the tutorial IE moldy/rusty/worn etc.
a) they don't appear anywhere else, why have a dozen items that get replaced in the first 15 minutes?
b) replace with normal already damaged gear (IE lower the durability)

The effort required to change this wouldn't be worth it.



2) reduce tutorial rewards.
a) lose the ring of water breathing, make it a reward for another quest, why a water breathing creature has one is odd
i) make a small quest to retrieve a small chest from a sunken ship, quest giver gives the ring to get the chest, has to fight a handful of Shaugain and brings chest back and gets to keep the ring. If the aim is to allow players only 1 ring, make it non repeatable. A simpler solution is give it a random chance to drop from the High Cultist in Sacerfices
b) lose the Ember items in the tutorial, it's silly seeing 30 level 1's jumping around with flaming weapons
i) replace with some useful potions or mw item

I think the water breathing ring is fine as it is. If I remember correctly, you get it in the chest which is in the same room as the key submerged in the watery pit? That would be a new players first introduction to the breath bar and drowning effects, so getting an item granting water breathing shortly afterward makes them aware of the existence of such items and spells.

Regarding the Ember items, I was a little leery of getting particle-effect weapons so soon, as well as seeing everyone running around with flaming weapons.
Granted, the Ember effect is only 1 damage per hit rather than 1d6 so it's hardly overpowered (and the base item is not +1, it's masterwork, so it's roughly equal to a plain +1 weapon, just that it's nullified by fire resists and amplified on cold creatures whereas the plain +1 is affected by physical DR instead).
If anything, I would prefer if the glows on weapons scaled depending on the strength of the effect. The 1 damage 'touch' effects would be barely noticeable, the d6 would be a little weaker than the current default glow, the 2d6 (holy etc) and bursting effects would be a little stronger than the current glow, etc etc.



3) Change Korthos rewards
a) lose the DR items from Korthos, replace with items like the Bracers of Assistance IE Bracers of Mage Armor and Bracers of Cure Light Wounds ie simple lvl 1 spell 1/day. DR items really have no place at such a low level honestly and Korthos is pretty darn easy as it is

Classes that need the mage armor clicky badly get it (eg. monks on their starter Outfit).
There's a cloak of Cure Light Wounds from one of the quests too.

The DR bracers are quite important in all honesty, without those two items things would be a pain before obtaining proper spearblock/axeblock/hammerblock or invulnerability gear (which are just a matter of keeping an eye on the brokers, robes/outfits/+1 armors of the above 4 are fairly low ML and not too pricy).



Shrines:

4) lose Shrines
a) I would lose the shrines and just keep the blue fire places. So many shrines don't really make sense. Call them Easily Defendable Area or some such. The code behind the clicky should be easy enough to know if a ghost clicks it then rez, if not then rest.

While this would improve immersion somewhat, it's not really any kind of groundbreaking benefit. It'd be nice if something along these lines happened but not really a problem as it is.



5) Rezzing
a) One alternative that might be considered is instead of auto rezzing is adding a component (not not the diamond) Possibly Siberys or Khyber Shards. Given this would more adversely affect newer players you could make an option of using residual dust at the place (IE greater rez penalty but doesn't require shards) or alternatively use of shards boost your hps to say 1/4 of max.

Something like this would be nice. I'd welcome the opportunity to throw some kind of reagents at the shrine to get back into the action quicker (primarily on my more potion-reliant characters who haven't developed enough UMD to wand-whip).



Shops:

6) please stack like items
a) obviously there is a DB somewhere behind all this code, would it be so hard to stack ie if the shop has 5 identical +1 swords then show just one, if that one is bought another takes it's place. It gets old scrolling past 10 items each with 5-6 'copies' each. I only need to see 1 of each identical item to know if I want to buy it (yes by identical I also mean durability)

I guess you're talking about the Brokers. I just got used to it after a while, and I don't really mind like items not stacking as they'll often have different looks as well. The items are also added/removed from the list in real time, I think it's less complicated if all the items are separated.
Once you start frequenting the higher level brokers you stop seeing tons of plain + items there taking up space, but items with varying stats of different magnitudes (+1 seeker4 of maiming, followed by +2 seeker2 of deception, etc etc.). There would not be enough benefit from this stacking item code to make it worth it.



Balancing: (disclaimer this probably just bothers me from PnP, maybe it works for here, iii explains the bother)

7) I would suggest relooking at your balancing of items. IE I had a +1 mace and +1 armor up to 4th lvl or so, then I jumped to a +3 weapon and +4 armor without blinking. I suspect once I get to 9th I will have nothing but +5's and just be hunting for '+5's with specific additionals' ( I can afford +5 for a while, I just don't meet lvl reqs)
i) recheck loot tables and make more of a progression
ii) consider adding more RL's, this would also affect outrageous AH prices I would imagine
iii) items available to characters should be somewhat inline with the magic available for their level ie if a caster can cast a spell to add +2 ac they should expect around +2 items, maybe +3, not +5

Plain +5 items have minimum level of 8 (if you find race-required gear it will be ML6).
It's often better to use something with some bonus dice (eg. +2 holy of pure good rather than plain +5, would give you base+2+2d6vsEvil+1d6vsNonGood as opposed to base+5 damage) and there are enough random combos to make hunting for a worthwhile weapon a time consuming task.

At level 10 (8 for the extremely lucky who find RR items) you gain access to valuable effects like paralyzing, disrupting, vorpal, smiting, and banishing. These of course are pretty darn hard to get at the minimum level, and command high prices. They get more affordable around level 12 (+1 _____ of junkstat).

Level 10 (again, 8 for RR) also brings the possibility of wounding and puncturing on a single weapon (or maladroit/bone breaking, or weakening/enfeebling) which damage con/dex/str by 1 per hit + 1d6 on criticals respectively.

Then there are also various DR-breakers to look for such as metalline of pure good for demon/devil DR, silver+good for devils, cold iron+good for demons, adamantine for most constructs, etc.
Then there are various Greater Banes, which in tandem with DR breaking stats can be extremely valuable, such as the very desirable Holy Bursting Silver <insert good weapon type here> of Greater Evil Outsider Bane.

There's a lot to keep you busy hunting around, and this is only weapons!
When you look at armor and jewelry too, there's really a lot to upgrade at any level if you have the funds. There are immunity items (disease, poison, deathblock, blindness ward, and more), constant effect items like feather fall or underwater action, yadda yadda yadda.

I've never once thought that the progression of gear was lacking, there was always more I could do to put the perfect gear set together... and this is even before counting named and raid loot.



Crafting:

8) Yes, it has been beat to death but one more wack I say! Consider adding non unbalancing crafting now.
i) add base metal/leather/crafting based on dropables so players can combine various elements found ie 6 ingots of fine steel and a gem to make a mw longsword. Limit craftables to max mw for now to test the system.
ii) this allows a chance to work on bugs and how the system will work, I don't see DDO as being a go out and mine/chop/hunt game, given the current crafting I suspect just collecting craftables and dropping them into the Stone of Change is the method
iii) gives gems a use, require X amount in gold of gems for items, in the future, require mw items to make magic items when crafting matures
iiii) consider a craftables bag :)

Crafting masterwork or 'plain' + gear would be a waste of time in all honesty, it's easy enough to find the stuff.
Crafting the actual stuff you'd want to craft (the expensive special effect or stat damaging weaponry) would just turn into an alternate grind, instead of grinding for gold or the weapon, you would be grinding for rare crafting ingredients instead. I don't really think it would improve the situation much, it's just an additional route tacked onto an already well traveled one.

Once you get into Shroud crafting you'll have a lot on your plate. I personally find it needlessly complex, but the level of customization you can get is sweet.
Then there's epic crafting and augment slots which I won't comment on as I haven't dabbled in any yet. I'm slacking around killing time between raid unlocks until I can pull a few items from the earlier raids and finish a Concordant Opposition item from the Shroud.

There is a craftables bag - Ingredients bag. Go to the Tower of the Twelve and talk to the patron representative, he'll give you a small one for free.
It will hold siberys and khyber fragments, as well as many (but far from all) items that fit into the Stone of Change.



Monsters: besides the normal requests

9) where are the giant bugs? giant rats after Korthos? Seems odd we have giant spiders but no beetles, ants etc. Also a city as big and rundown as SR should have at least some rats in the sewers. (maybe rats are the food source for the city under the city?)

There are rats, just not as plentiful as one would expect in sewers, but those sewers are also home to oozes, spiders, scorpions, kobolds, troglodytes, and more. I kinda prefer not having to spend my first few levels collecting rat tails in any case :P

I'd love giant beetles and ants. The game's bestiary could do with some expansion.



Doors:

10) please, if you are going to have something alive on the otherside of a door, shouldn't there be a way to open/close it from their side?

I've seen many mobs open doors to get to me, generally if they hear the clamor of combat on the other side.
There are also some cases where there are just ground triggers to make creatures come out of nearby rooms (usually something like a listen check, though sometimes they will always charge out, and if you're hidden they'll mill around and path back to their starting points).



Monster oddities:

11) IE how do you lock a rust monster behind a metal door? really....

That's a funny one.
Yes there are a fair number of situations that need to be cleaned up from a logical standpoint.

Mirta
01-01-2010, 07:45 PM
1) I like cheesburgers
a) because they have cheese

Shrines:

4) lose Shrines
a) I would lose the shrines and just keep the blue fire places. So many shrines don't really make sense. Call them Easily Defendable Area or some such. The code behind the clicky should be easy enough to know if a ghost clicks it then rez, if not then rest.

Doors:

10) please, if you are going to have something alive on the otherside of a door, shouldn't there be a way to open/close it from their side?


Monster oddities:

11) IE how do you lock a rust monster behind a metal door? really....

Love these ideas.



More traps!

12) add smarter traps. Traps are currently very straight forward they hurt you. There are other options and would give another non lethal method to challenge players
i) add pit traps, you have shown you have the ability to make floors fall, nice deep pit, maybe spikes at the bottom
ii) chute traps, darn, party member hits trap and gets 'chutted' into a holding cell on the floor below behind a locked door, obviously less harmful to people with OL or knock but would add variety
iii) teleport trap, nothing says headache like a pressure plate that makes a character appear somewhere else
iiii) debuffing traps, trap gets triggered and target gets hit by a varying level dispel magic
v) spiked wall trap...oh please add this......section of walled spikes hit characters in an area

There already are pit traps, teleport trap(s?), debuffing traps, and an awesome spiked wall trap. We do need more of them, though.