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View Full Version : Many Melee Questions, Answers Please, Winning Beats Dying



Ayrleig
12-30-2009, 03:50 PM
Okay, I'm finally getting into this stuff since saying goodbye to AD&D in the 80's. My characters have died a few times and they don't like it. I have many questions about weapon wielding in melee:

1. I'm aware of penalty and specialization for dual hand melee, but are there tables somewhere that show just what the penalties are and how they break down, for someone trained in it, or for someone not trained? Off-handed (a-hem) examples:

a. do I get twice the attacks per round, or if not, then how many more than one-handed?
b. better with a dagger than longsword in the off-hand? - how?
c. how does dexterity affect?
d. how does strength affect?
e. how does character level affect?
f. how does armor encumbrance affect?
g. how does confined space affect, if at all?
h. I see an off-handed blunt attack listed as available for my shield; how and when and how often is it used? (That could make it much, much better than dual handed fighting!)

2. On the other hand... are there penalties in quickness, or attacks/round-second-whatever penalties for using a two-handed battle-ax vs. a short sword, etc.?

3. If I use a bastard sword, can I put one-handed bastardry in one hot-bar box and two-handed in another, or how does that work?

4. And give me a hand on this: when in thunder can I administer "healing" to myself? (not potions or magic, just the healing skill)

5. And is it true that my soul can go to a resurrection shrine if it's nearby and resurrect me on the spot? Perish the thought, I don't like to die!

Feel free to point me to Web pages that address these things in specificity.

If we get good answers, maybe I'll be generous enough to put up a "Guide" page in the forum about it (if there is one already, please point out).

PopeJual
12-30-2009, 03:59 PM
The answers to these questions should be up on a user created guide that is required reading for all new players. This is almost exactly the list of questions that I still have on TWF vs. THF vs. Sword and Board with the small difference coming from the fact that the OP thought of a couple questions that I want answered but didn't think of myself. :)


Edit: your original question 3 was incorrectly phrased. It should read, "If I use a Khopesh, I'll have better results than a Bastard Sword will be better than a Bastard Sword and I'll just switch to a Longsword, etc. if I need to use a shield."

Angelus_dead
12-30-2009, 04:07 PM
1. I'm aware of penalty and specialization for dual hand melee, but are there tables somewhere that show just what the penalties are and how they break down, for someone trained in it, or for someone not trained?
If you do not have the TWF feat then there is a substantial attack penalty for using an offhand weapon, and you shouldn't bother.
Having the TWF feat reduces the penalties to -2 for both hands, or -4 if your offhand weapon is not light. (The OTWF feat would make it -2 even with non-light offhands).

Using an offhand weapon gives you +1 more attack per cycle of 4 attacks. Training ITWF increases it to +2, and GTWF makes it +4, for a total of twice the number of attacks.

The strength bonus to damage is 50% of your strength mod for the offhand and 100% for mainhand. In DDO, Power Attack applies fully to light weapons.


h. I see an off-handed blunt attack listed as available for my shield; how and when and how often is it used? (That could make it much, much better than dual handed fighting!)
The shield bash attack is only used if you hold down Shift and forgo your regular attacks, which makes it almost completely useless (and sometimes worse than useless). It has often been suggested that the Improved Shield Bash feats could allow you to make bash attacks as part of a regular S&B attack animation, but that has never been added.


2. On the other hand... are there penalties in quickness, or attacks/round-second-whatever penalties for using a two-handed battle-ax vs. a short sword, etc.?
There is not currently any effect like that, and none is planned.


3. If I use a bastard sword, can I put one-handed bastardry in one hot-bar box and two-handed in another, or how does that work?
DDO does not support equipping a one-handed weapon in two hands. It has been repeatedly suggested (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218187) that this be added, at least for a limited set of weapons such as Bastard sword.

Be warned that Bastard Sword is a poor choice of weapon in DDO, and that Khopesh is far superior for an exotic proficiency feat.


4. And give me a hand on this: when in thunder can I administer "healing" to myself? (not potions or magic, just the healing skill)
You cannot do that. It has been repeatedly suggested (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=203804) that something like that be added.


5. And is it true that my soul can go to a resurrection shrine if it's nearby and resurrect me on the spot? Perish the thought, I don't like to die!
If you die you'll have a button to "release" to the last NPC healer you spoke to, probably in a nearby tavern. You can also use rez shrines throughout the world, either by clicking on it if you are very close, or by getting a teammate to carry you there.

Khurse
12-30-2009, 04:08 PM
Taking the easy ones
Dex/Str don't effect the number of attacks, they only effect your to hit bonus, and Dex only does that if you've taken the Weapon Finesse feat.
Your encumberance doesn't affect your attacks at all.
Space doesn't affect your attacks at all.
The shield attack is is a shield bash, basically you hold down the shift (default) key to shield block, then attack with the mouse to take a swing. Most players don't use it.

Bastard swords are only one handed weapons in the game. There is no way to use them two handed.

The "Healing: skill only affects how many hitpoints you get back when using a rest shrine. Generally considered a useless skill.

Your "soul" can resurrect at any res shrine you can make it to. You'll get a message that says "out of range of your soul stone" and then have 9 (iirc) seconds to make it to the shrine. If you cna't make it in that time your soul bounces back to your soul stone.
You can't open doors/flip switches while dead of course, so there has to be an unblocked path to the shrine.

Ayrleig
12-30-2009, 04:08 PM
The answers to these questions should be up on a user created guide that is required reading for all new players. This is almost exactly the list of questions that I still have on TWF vs. THF vs. Sword and Board with the small difference coming from the fact that the OP thought of a couple questions that I want answered but didn't think of myself. :)


Edit: your original question 3 was incorrectly phrased. It should read, "If I use a Khopesh, I'll have better results than a Bastard Sword will be better than a Bastard Sword and I'll just switch to a Longsword, etc. if I need to use a shield."

Thanks. Hm, Kopesh, nice new word, that seems to be part of the extra grace DDO gives us for carrying massive loads of junk around with us. (I've always thought that a Ranger for example, shouldn't be burdened with even a huge two-handed sword, though a bastard sword could be practical and flexible.)

ArgentMage
12-30-2009, 04:24 PM
So, maybe I can answer a couple of questions you might have later. :D

If you're building a character with high DEX, or a Ranger, then consider Two-Weapon
Fighting, otherwise don't. TWF is, IMHO, a more difficult path to walk in the lower
levels, and only really starts to pay off in the higher levels.

Instead, you might consider a high STR build, and do Two-Handed Fighting.
Note that you don't actually need the THF feat to wield a two-handed weapon,
but if you understand how the glancing blows work, you can make mob kills faster
with THF. Then you have the option of Sword & Shield or Two-Handed, depending
on what you're facing.

Although attacking with your shield is pretty lame in DDO, *blocking* with it works,
and works well. In particular, it's great at blocking "special attacks". For instance,
when fighting scorpions and spiders, their fangs/stinger will glow green when their
next attack will have poison in it. If you hold down the shift key, your shield will
spring into position in front of you, and you hold it there until the attack is over.
This will bring extra DR into play for that attack, and typically, this will block the
poison attack. Then you release the shift key and go back to regular attacks when
the poison attack is over.

Angelus_dead
12-30-2009, 04:33 PM
For instance, when fighting scorpions and spiders, their fangs/stinger will glow green when their next attack will have poison in it. If you hold down the shift key, your shield will
spring into position in front of you, and you hold it there until the attack is over. This will bring extra DR into play for that attack, and typically, this will block the poison attack. Then you release the shift key and go back to regular attacks when the poison attack is over.
It is a mistake to stop attacking and block with your shield if you see a monster about to try poisoning you. The poison provides minimal extra damage beyond a regular attack, so you'd get better results if you just keep fighting and kill it sooner.

In fact, it is also a mistake from the monster's perspective for him to use the poison attack at all! Just imagine if you had an icon for an attack which took twice as long but did +25% damage: you'd be stupid to ever click it. That's about what those monster "special attacks" are doing.

Ayrleig
12-30-2009, 05:14 PM
What exactly are the differences between OTWF, ITWF, and GTWF?

(BTW, I need to try the shift key more and get used to it.)

Kiralyn2000
12-30-2009, 05:54 PM
c. how does dexterity affect?

Dex:
- with Weapon Finesse feat, you use your Dex modifier as your to-hit bonus, with "finesse" weapons
- re:Two Weapon Fighting. High levels of Dex are required for a non-ranger to learn all the TWF feats. (17?)


OTWF - Oversized Two Weapon Fighting. Lets you use a non-Light weapon in your off-hand without extra penalty

ITWF - Improved Two Weapon Fighting. Better than TWF
GTWF - Greater Two Weapon Fighting. Better than ITWF

From Angelus_dead's post:

Using an offhand weapon gives you +1 more attack per cycle of 4 attacks. Training ITWF increases it to +2, and GTWF makes it +4, for a total of twice the number of attacks.

Ayrleig
12-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Thank you.



If you die you'll have a button to "release" to the last NPC healer you spoke to, probably in a nearby tavern. You can also use rez shrines throughout the world, either by clicking on it if you are very close, or by getting a teammate to carry you there.

How do you carry someone in such a circumstance? And are characters ever incapacitated in other ways and if so, how are they bodily carried?

7-day_Trial_Monkey
12-30-2009, 11:30 PM
When someone dies, a soulstone drops at their location. You click it to pickup and it goes in your inventory. When you die you can only be a certain distance from your soulstone. If you go out of range you get teleported back to it. If you can reach a shrine from where you died that's fine. Otherwise a party member, or hireling has to pick it up. Then you follow them to the shrine (or the hireling follows your ghost).