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Gol
12-18-2009, 11:44 AM
/rant on...

Is it just me, or is this a little deceiving?
http://www.ddo.com/ddostore/809-ddo-store-50-bonus-point-boost

That is, 50% bonus points?

Previous to this 4300 points costs $49. A 50% bonus would be 6450. Best deal they've offered to date!

Wrong. 50% bonus on 4300 isn't 2150. It's only 650. /boggle.

4300 = 3000 base + 1300 "bonus points". We're getting +50% "bonus points". 4300 + 50% = 3000 + 1300 + 50% of 1300, or 3000 + 1300 + 650 for 4950.

Don't get me wrong, it's still about the same points / $ that we've seen in the past. They've gone and screwed with the math to make it sound better, though. You're not getting +50% points. You're getting +50% of an artificially lowered base amount so that your net increase is a whopping +15.1%.

/rant off...

Cyr
12-18-2009, 12:36 PM
lol, I thought exactly the same thing upon seeing the 'deal'. Now you know why they split up the points when you buy them into 'normal' and 'bonus' points. So they can say 50% more bonus points and are just talking about some random slice of the pie of points you bought before and not the actual pie.

DANTEIL
12-18-2009, 12:53 PM
Yes! I'm glad someone else pointed this out. I understand that we're supposed to think of this as a baseline number of TP per $$, with proportional 'bonuses' to the number of points you get for larger point purchases But, even the smallest point pack (300 points) has a bonus of 15 points, which to me just confuses the issue; what is this bonusing? Why not just call it 315 and leave it at that?

But if you do the math, it's clearer how the bonuses work, even if the labels are misleading.

Here's some math (this is the math on the current basic packages, not including the 50% bonus point boost):

300 points/$5.00 = 60 points per dollar
1200 points/$19.50 = 61.54 points per dollar
2400 points/$38.99 = 61.55 points per dollar
3000 points/$48.75 = 61.53 points per dollar

So as you can see at the base prices, the point/dollar ratio is pretty constant.

But with the set bonus points:

315 points/$5.00 = 63 points per dollar
1550 points/$19.50 = 79.49 points per dollar
3300 points/$38.99 = 84.64 points per dollar
4300 points/$48.75 = 88.21 points per dollar

And with the 50% bonus point boost:

325 points/$5.00 = 65 points per dollar
1725 points/$19.50 = 88.46 points per dollar
3750 points/$38.99 = 96.18 points per dollar
4950 points/$48.75 = 101.54 points per dollar

So there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to buy the smallest pack. I guess that's the point (no pun intended).

Also, I agree that the large jump between the 1st and 2nd level purchase points seems pointless (okay, that pun was intended).

Lorien_the_First_One
12-18-2009, 12:58 PM
While I am a big supporter of Turbine, they do tend to put out advertising that is somewhere between "unclear" and "deceptive advertising". A few of their ads (such as "unlimited" as used to describe AH posts and gold storage on the /vip page, are probably actionable deceptive advertising in some juristictions.

This game is a great deal, I wish they would just be straight about it.

Missing_Minds
12-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Gol, I had the same thoughts.

I know my brain is fried from the stunts I'm attempting to code at work, but I still know that isn't a 50% boost.

It is one of their better deals still, so I'm not going to knock that it is a good deal time. One of the best that I can remember but... that is so not 50% more.

suitepotato
12-18-2009, 01:07 PM
You're thinking the way the average person does, and not the way deceptive cynical opportunists think. They are missing out on why Wal-Mart is a raving success and their competitors not. For long years the dry goods and grocery retail chains would increase prices just before sales by about one day, and you'd be seeing a $1 increase on an item then a $0.50 sale on it, hence still paying $0.50 MORE than you did a few days earlier. Wal-Mart genuinely marks things down and not after first jacking the price up, which is how the average person expects things. I've worked more than enough retail to know, and it is BAD customer service. BAD. Turbine needs to make the calculations clear and not play games.

DANTEIL
12-18-2009, 03:10 PM
You're thinking the way the average person does, and not the way deceptive cynical opportunists think. They are missing out on why Wal-Mart is a raving success and their competitors not. For long years the dry goods and grocery retail chains would increase prices just before sales by about one day, and you'd be seeing a $1 increase on an item then a $0.50 sale on it, hence still paying $0.50 MORE than you did a few days earlier. Wal-Mart genuinely marks things down and not after first jacking the price up, which is how the average person expects things. I've worked more than enough retail to know, and it is BAD customer service. BAD. Turbine needs to make the calculations clear and not play games.

I know that many companies do this kind of thing, so in this case I felt the need to do a quick check on this myself. Using this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=215256), I found the most recent DDO store TP prices before the most recent change to the pricing structure:

400 + 20 = 420 points for $6.50
800 + 175 = 975 points for $12.99
1200 + 350 = 1550 points for $19.50
2400 + 900 = 3300 points for $38.99

Doing the same math that I used in my previous post:

base prices:
400 points/$6.50 = 61.54 points/dollar
800 points/$12.99 = 61.69 points/dollar
1200 points/$19.50 = 61.54 points/dollar
2400 points/$38.99 = 61.55 points/dollar

This is identical to the base price ratios for the current DDO store prices. Apparently Turbine has decided to set the base price of Turbine Points at approx 61.5 points/dollar.

Now, factoring in the 'bonus' points:

420 points/$6.50 = 64.62 points/dollar
975 points/$12.99 = 75.06 points/dollar
1550 points/$19.50 = 79.49 points/dollar
3300 points/$38.99 = 84.64 points/dollar

If you compare those numbers with the same calculations for the current prices:

315 points/$5.00 = 63 points per dollar
1550 points/$19.50 = 79.49 points per dollar
3300 points/$38.99 = 84.64 points per dollar
4300 points/$48.75 = 88.21 points per dollar
you can see that, aside from the lowest price level, we are actually now getting *more* points per dollar -- approximately 4 points more, more or less.

I'm not trying to be a Turbine apologist, but for this comparison at least it doesn't seem like they are increasing prices only to provide a fake discount. That still doesn't mean that the idea of a "bonus" isn't confusing, however...

EDIT: whoops! math is hard! I just realized I was comparing apples to oranges. After I posted I noticed that the ratios are identical at the 1550 point level (see red), so what they did was just skip a level, which is why it looks like everything was adjusted upwards. My bad.

Kromize
12-18-2009, 06:35 PM
refer to this post: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=220225

their "bonus" points are not really a bonus.

RangerOne
12-19-2009, 12:00 AM
I'm glad you crunched numbers. I was just about to complain about "What 50%?" This clears it up nicely (though it doesn't make me feel better about how they calculate it.)

Rumbaar
12-19-2009, 03:32 AM
Yeah it does seem a little deceptive.

But the current top deal is the best they've had in recent months. The last best deal was when they had 5000 @ $49.99US. But the current 4950 @ $48.75US is the best points to cost ratio in at least the last 2 or so months.

But only just ...

Recent best deals:

3300 @ $38.99US [Early Nov] = 94.03 per
5000 @ $49.99US [Late Nov]= 100.02 per
3525 @ $38.99US [Early Dec]= 90.40 per

spyyder976
12-19-2009, 11:43 PM
Yes! I'm glad someone else pointed this out. I understand that we're supposed to think of this as a baseline number of TP per $$, with proportional 'bonuses' to the number of points you get for larger point purchases But, even the smallest point pack (300 points) has a bonus of 15 points, which to me just confuses the issue; what is this bonusing? Why not just call it 315 and leave it at that?

But if you do the math, it's clearer how the bonuses work, even if the labels are misleading.

Here's some math (this is the math on the current basic packages, not including the 50% bonus point boost):

300 points/$5.00 = 60 points per dollar
1200 points/$19.50 = 61.54 points per dollar
2400 points/$38.99 = 61.55 points per dollar
3000 points/$48.75 = 61.53 points per dollar

So as you can see at the base prices, the point/dollar ratio is pretty constant.

But with the set bonus points:

315 points/$5.00 = 63 points per dollar
1550 points/$19.50 = 79.49 points per dollar
3300 points/$38.99 = 84.64 points per dollar
4300 points/$48.75 = 88.21 points per dollar

And with the 50% bonus point boost:

325 points/$5.00 = 65 points per dollar
1725 points/$19.50 = 88.46 points per dollar
3750 points/$38.99 = 96.18 points per dollar
4950 points/$48.75 = 101.54 points per dollar

So there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to buy the smallest pack. I guess that's the point (no pun intended).

Also, I agree that the large jump between the 1st and 2nd level purchase points seems pointless (okay, that pun was intended).

To Turbine via a complaint ticket:
I just spent 48.75 on the package to get 4950 TP's. All these packages have bonuses listed next to them which are separate from the 50% bonus going on right now, as some of these bonuses are above and some are below 50%. So, you shorted me my 50% bonus. I should have gotten 4950 + 2475, but I didn't get the extra 2475, which is the only reason I bought these points now! I want my points!

They cannot say that the bonus beside the base are a part of this promotion. If you are giving me +50% bonus points on the package I bought, well I just bought 4950, and you owe me 2475, or else this is false advertising. The listed bonus is NOT the 50% bonus!!!

300 +25 (25 is not 50%)
all the way to
3000 +1950 (again is STILL not 50% bonus)

They cannot claim these bonuses listed are the same 50% bonuses!!!!!

I don't ever recall them saying ANYWHERE that we only get a 50% bonus boost to the bonuses and not a 50% boost to the points we bought. How very ATARI of you TURBINE!!!

Rumbaar
12-20-2009, 10:48 PM
Sorry mate it's clearly stated, thought it's a bit deceiving.

From the sales page, and I'm sure elsewhere:

Now through Sunday, January 3, 2010,
purchase Turbine Points and get a 50% boost to your bonus points!