PDA

View Full Version : Comrades, regarding Heighten Spell and charm spells



vettkinn
12-17-2009, 02:20 AM
Comrades, I would like to know how exactly Heighten Spell affects spells, say charm. Will it increase the save DC?

A clarification would be great.

Seventh
12-17-2009, 02:26 AM
It does increase the DC. Heighten Spell raises the level (and SP cost) of a spell to the highest you can cast (so if you're a 5th level wizard and cast a heightened charm person, it'll be a 3rd level spell). Each level it gains grants any spell with a DC a +1 to that DC.

vettkinn
12-17-2009, 02:34 AM
It does increase the DC. Heighten Spell raises the level (and SP cost) of a spell to the highest you can cast (so if you're a 5th level wizard and cast a heightened charm person, it'll be a 3rd level spell). Each level it gains grants any spell with a DC a +1 to that DC.

Hmmm, say if I was a level 8 sorc and I'll cast charm person, it will gain +3 to its DC? Is this correct comrade?

Seventh
12-17-2009, 03:19 AM
Hmmm, say if I was a level 8 sorc and I'll cast charm person, it will gain +3 to its DC? Is this correct comrade?

Yes, if you cast it with heighten on.

LunaCee
12-17-2009, 10:16 AM
Might I suggest Suggestion, and at higher levels Mass Suggestion?

While Suggestion is a higher level spell than charm person, its lower level than charm monster. Yet it works on BOTH sets of critters. And unlike those Charm spells it doesn't have that annoying habit of casters making followup will saves and nuking you for daring to charm them. If they fail against suggestion they are in for the entire duration of the spell or until they or are released by you personally from their servitude with break charm. For those using Heighten Spell to land CC spells with the costs for all are the same. Why not use the one without potentially unhealthy side effects?

I for one have lots of fun running around with Mass Suggestion in quests that people are afraid of. Hiding In Plain Sight for example. You know that end fight up top of the ladder? I've managed to successfully grab both orange named hobs and the Aurum spell caster before leaving the boss of the quest sitting there getting pummeled by his allies. And this is while I was at level for the the quest. And I usually get at least two of them.

vettkinn
12-17-2009, 04:48 PM
Might I suggest Suggestion, and at higher levels Mass Suggestion?

While Suggestion is a higher level spell than charm person, its lower level than charm monster. Yet it works on BOTH sets of critters. And unlike those Charm spells it doesn't have that annoying habit of casters making followup will saves and nuking you for daring to charm them. If they fail against suggestion they are in for the entire duration of the spell or until they or are released by you personally from their servitude with break charm. For those using Heighten Spell to land CC spells with the costs for all are the same. Why not use the one without potentially unhealthy side effects?

I for one have lots of fun running around with Mass Suggestion in quests that people are afraid of. Hiding In Plain Sight for example. You know that end fight up top of the ladder? I've managed to successfully grab both orange named hobs and the Aurum spell caster before leaving the boss of the quest sitting there getting pummeled by his allies. And this is while I was at level for the the quest. And I usually get at least two of them.

Hmmm, interesting. I will check on that as well comrade, thanks for the info.

MissErres
12-17-2009, 04:52 PM
My favorite is Dominate. If I'm going to charm something, I might as well take it with me to do my dirty work for me. ;)

RioRussell
12-17-2009, 04:54 PM
Yes, if you cast it with heighten on.

No, this is wrong. If you are an 8th level sorc and you cast charm person (a third level spell) it increases the spell level of charm person to the highest level spell you can cast.

since you are an eighth level sorc, the highest level spell you can cast is a 4th level spell. so having heighten on would give you +1DC (from an effective 3rd to 4th level spell).

Heighten is not as effective in this situation. what is more effective is when you are an 18th level sorcerer and you cast a heightened web, which has an effective +7DC over an non heightened web (level 2 spell heightened to a level 9 spell).

rio

Phidius
12-17-2009, 05:24 PM
Charm Person is a 1st level spell - you're probably thinking of Suggestion.

vettkinn
12-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Charm Person is a 1st level spell - you're probably thinking of Suggestion.

pwned.

Phidius
12-17-2009, 05:44 PM
Not by me - once I can cast Suggestion, it becomes Charm Whatever Is In My Way, too...

sephiroth1084
12-17-2009, 06:03 PM
No, this is wrong. If you are an 8th level sorc and you cast charm person (a third level spell) it increases the spell level of charm person to the highest level spell you can cast.

since you are an eighth level sorc, the highest level spell you can cast is a 4th level spell. so having heighten on would give you +1DC (from an effective 3rd to 4th level spell).

Heighten is not as effective in this situation. what is more effective is when you are an 18th level sorcerer and you cast a heightened web, which has an effective +7DC over an non heightened web (level 2 spell heightened to a level 9 spell).

rio


Charm Person is a 1st level spell - you're probably thinking of Suggestion.


pwned.

Reading comprehension FTW!

Because it wasn't explicitly stated, Heighten increases both the base DC and the SP cost of the spell in question to match that of your highest level spell you can cast. So, the spell gains 1 DC and 5 SP per level of higher spell you have available. At level 18, a 1st level spell will have a base DC of 19, and will cost 50 SP (as opposed to 11 and 10).

By itself, then, Heighten will not make any lower level spell better than its higher level version, but if you take Improved Heightening I (and II), that will not be the case, as these enhancements reduce the cost of Heighten by 1 (2) points per level of Heightening. So, that same level 1 spell would cost only 34 points, making it significantly cheaper than a higher level version.

vettkinn
12-17-2009, 06:19 PM
Reading comprehension FTW!

Because it wasn't explicitly stated, Heighten increases both the base DC and the SP cost of the spell in question to match that of your highest level spell you can cast. So, the spell gains 1 DC and 5 SP per level of higher spell you have available. At level 18, a 1st level spell will have a base DC of 19, and will cost 50 SP (as opposed to 11 and 10).

By itself, then, Heighten will not make any lower level spell better than its higher level version, but if you take Improved Heightening I (and II), that will not be the case, as these enhancements reduce the cost of Heighten by 1 (2) points per level of Heightening. So, that same level 1 spell would cost only 34 points, making it significantly cheaper than a higher level version.

Good info comrade, I appreciate it. I was actually thinking that it would only reduce 1sp or 2sp. Looks like I will again create a new drow sorc enchanter.

sephiroth1084
12-17-2009, 06:34 PM
Good info comrade, I appreciate it. I was actually thinking that it would only reduce 1sp or 2sp. Looks like I will again create a new drow sorc enchanter.

It reduces 1 or 2 SP per level of increase.

The wizard capstone does the same, so for a wizard, Heighten costs only 2 points per level of increase.

danotmano1998
05-26-2011, 08:46 AM
So, the spell gains 1 DC and 5 SP per level of higher spell you have available. At level 18, a 1st level spell will have a base DC of 19, and will cost 50 SP (as opposed to 11 and 10).

+1 for that information. I've been looking for exactly how much it costs in terms of SP. I had assumed it was 1 sp per level. Now I know better. Now I also understand exactly why those enhancements cost so much.

BurningDownTheHouse
05-26-2011, 08:57 AM
Did you really have to necro this? Really?

Gkar
05-26-2011, 09:00 AM
God for a second I thought he was back.

Phidius
05-26-2011, 09:06 AM
What I enjoy best about necro'ed threads is that if they're old enough I'll have forgotten ever posting in it.

Then when I read my own posts, I think to myself "God, what a well-articulated, insightful post. I'll bet the poster is truly awesome in bed".

sirgog
05-26-2011, 06:36 PM
I miss Comrade Vetkinn's posts and the, uh, interesting discussion they always generated.

sephiroth1084
05-26-2011, 06:51 PM
What I enjoy best about necro'ed threads is that if they're old enough I'll have forgotten ever posting in it.

Then when I read my own posts, I think to myself "God, what a well-articulated, insightful post. I'll bet the poster is truly awesome in bed".
QFT!

This is basically exactly what happened when I noticed this in my Subscribed Threads window.

Max2000
07-29-2011, 01:13 AM
God for a second I thought he was back.

So did I. I miss the good days...

Hobgoblin
07-29-2011, 01:35 AM
this really needed to get necro'd?

not just once, but twice?

its not even halloween!

Missing_Minds
07-29-2011, 02:49 AM
this really needed to get necro'd?
not just once, but twice?
its not even halloween!

What goes around comes twice?