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Silvershaper
12-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Hi everyone

I thought I would inform everyone interested in how I've started playing this game and present the build I've been working on the last couple of days - hopefully, someone with more experience than me can comment and improve it ;)

A friend of mine has played a lot of D&D PnP many years ago, and started playing DDO when he learned it had become free. About two weeks ago, he convinced me to join, and knowing nothing of the game except the short intro he gave me, I created my first char - a rogue halfling. I did some serious raiding in WoW three years ago, so the whole set-up was partially familiar. After levelling to around 5 or so, I realized that using a bow was really fun, and I decided to roll a ranger. Advice from my friend made me gather 400 favor first, so I could make it a Drow Ranger. Again, I just created the char choosing what feats I thought sounded good, and at level 3 I realized this was a really bad way to go. I needed to plan my char instead. So I hit the forums. I read posts. Lots of them. And I found out that making a pure ranged ranger was not the best idea. But I'm stubborn, so I'm gonna do it anyway. However, since there's a lot of free feats that include two weapon fighting coming along by itself, I'll make it a decent melee'er as well.

So, here's the build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Female
(20 Ranger)
Hit Points: 200
Spell Points: 409
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 18
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 20
Dexterity 18 23
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 10 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 17.5
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 1 1
Hide 8 29
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 4 26
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 8 29
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 25
Spot 5 26
Swim 2 5
Tumble 5 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Extra Empathy I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Ranger Elemental Empathy


Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance IV


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV


Level 17 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II


Level 18 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows


Level 19 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Ranger Master of Archery
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II



I've given it quite some thought, and I believe the result is pretty good - but it can probably be improved. I haven't chosen any feat for lvl 18, simply couldn't figure out which one to take. And the Favored Enemy: Construct at lvl 20 was also pretty much just a guess out of the blue.

So, what do you think?

Pizzasoup
12-14-2009, 08:11 PM
I spy Power Critical in there, which doesn't do much for you at all. You won't have a problem confirming your crits normally, especially not at level 15, I'd wager, so you can change that to something else.

Silvershaper
12-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Sounds reasonable... That leaves me with two available feats, lvl 15 and 18. I've been thinking about Dodge->Mobility->Spring Attack/Shot on the run, but I think it's a bit too expensive since Dodge and Mobility are not giving me much. I've also thought about Weapon Finesse, but the difference between my dex and str isn't big enough to justify that either. Power attack is a possibility, or a weapon focus if I can figure out which one...

Vanshilar
12-15-2009, 01:12 AM
You can try using toughness as one of your feats. You'll need to spend some AP to get more hit points out of it though. Even though ostensibly you're ranged, the extra hit points come in handy if/when you figure out that 1) ranged may not be that great 2) you may get hit more often then you think. ;)

CountHenri
12-15-2009, 02:14 PM
the 17.5 Balance needs adjusting - half points do nothing - make it 17 and put the point left over into a class skill (though you may have them maxed - stupid lack of Wiki).

You've taken Melee enhancements but your HP are way too low for fighting hand to hand. Seriously look at putting in Toughness feat and the enhancements if you want to go toe-to-toe with something. Even consider dropping Dex & Int in favour of more Con (hard for a Drow to get decent Con). I've got a L9 dps Bard with 180HP and if he draws too much agro he dies pretty quick even with a 40ish AC and Blur...

Oh and, sadly, ranged in DDO sucks pretty hard - I'm a ranged fan and very rarely find myself reaching for a bow. Ironically enemy ranged can be very painful and you'll find the low HP mean you'll probably be cut to pieces in any Elite quest with ranged guys/casters on ledges.

Finally beware of Aggro - if you do manage to achieve good DPS with ranged you'll be a magnet for enemies - again the low HP mean you'll be kiting like mad and this will not endear you to other party members :)

Sorry to sound like a bit of a wet blanket (I play some odd builds myself) but the way the game engine works is something you do have to consider seriously when making a build or you'll find yourself wanting to punch the monitor a lot...

Silvershaper
12-15-2009, 09:43 PM
the 17.5 Balance needs adjusting - half points do nothing - make it 17 and put the point left over into a class skill (though you may have them maxed - stupid lack of Wiki).

Good point - strange I didn't notice that myself... I'll put 1 point into jump instead.



You've taken Melee enhancements but your HP are way too low for fighting hand to hand. Seriously look at putting in Toughness feat and the enhancements if you want to go toe-to-toe with something. Even consider dropping Dex & Int in favour of more Con (hard for a Drow to get decent Con). I've got a L9 dps Bard with 180HP and if he draws too much agro he dies pretty quick even with a 40ish AC and Blur...

Hmm... That's what I was afraid of. I've moved around some feats and enhancements, getting Toughness and Racial Toughness I at lvl 12, Racial Toughness II at lvl 13. If I drop Int, I'll really have to think about which skill not to raise, and Dex is what I'm basing this char on... Maybe I could drop 2 points from Wis, hoping to get a +Wis item by the time I start using spells...



Oh and, sadly, ranged in DDO sucks pretty hard - I'm a ranged fan and very rarely find myself reaching for a bow. Ironically enemy ranged can be very painful and you'll find the low HP mean you'll probably be cut to pieces in any Elite quest with ranged guys/casters on ledges.

Finally beware of Aggro - if you do manage to achieve good DPS with ranged you'll be a magnet for enemies - again the low HP mean you'll be kiting like mad and this will not endear you to other party members :)

Sorry to sound like a bit of a wet blanket (I play some odd builds myself) but the way the game engine works is something you do have to consider seriously when making a build or you'll find yourself wanting to punch the monitor a lot...

Yes, I've read that a lot in the forum, which is also why I stated in the first post that I'm being stubborn doing this ;)
Anyway, with the changes you suggested, I believe this would be version 1.1:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Female
(20 Ranger)
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 409
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 18
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 20
Dexterity 18 23
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 10 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 17
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 1 1
Hide 8 29
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 4 27
Listen 1 3
Move Silently 8 29
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 25
Spot 5 26
Swim 2 5
Tumble 5 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Extra Empathy I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Ranger Elemental Empathy


Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II


Level 17 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II


Level 18 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows


Level 19 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance IV


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Ranger Master of Archery
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II



At least she got 42 extra HP, an increase of almost 25%. And I still haven't chosen the lvl 18 feat.

tihocan
12-16-2009, 08:07 AM
I would replace oversized twf by improved crit: pierce, and take power attack at L18. This will make you more versatile, with both good DPS at ranged and in melee (which will be better when you're not in manyshot mode).

rpasell
12-16-2009, 08:52 AM
Oh and, sadly, ranged in DDO sucks pretty hard - I'm a ranged fan and very rarely find myself reaching for a bow.


This is just an opinion, and one I disagree with heartily. I have a ranged ranger who seldom has need to pull out meleé weapons. He will pull them out when necessary. I would drop both Power Critical and Mental Toughness. The spell points aren't really important for a ranger, and you'll be able to boost those to except-able levels with items. Toughness would be a good choice. To help with meleé you could go Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack. this is a play style choice though, when I meleé with my Ranged character, I like to take as little damage as possible so I'm very twitchy and always moving to flank the enemy. Shot on the Run is nice if you are have trouble hitting stuff while moving, and is nice for a primarily ranged character.

You are taking a tougher path, with a steeper learning curve for grouping. Make sure to gather as many different types of arrows as you can and learn to manage your quivers and hotbars. I carry 3 huge quivers, 1 for Dmagae typed arrows (flaming, frost, acid, holy, etc...) 1 for slaying arrows, and one for +3 returning and metal typed arrows (cold iron, silver, etc..). As an Arcane Archer you won't need to worry about the +3 returning arrows since you can make your own (mine is Deepwoods).

Learn agro management well.

tihocan
12-16-2009, 08:58 AM
I would drop both Power Critical and Mental Toughness.
Mental Toughness is to qualify for Arcane Archer.

Silvershaper
12-16-2009, 09:10 AM
Power critical is dropped in version 1.1, and I need Mental Toughness to get Arcane Archer. I think Dodge->Mobility->Spring attack is quite expensive considering I'd be moving around to flank, meaning getting +2 to hit, but -4ToHit from moving. Essentially, I'd be spending 3 feats to get +2 or +4ToHit (depending on my jumping success) _only_ while jumping around with melee. I have also considered Shot on the run, but the argument is more or less the same here. Taking both Spring Attack and Shot on the run would be a good idea, but then it's 4 feats, and I'd have to skip Toughness and Imp Crit: Ranged.

Power attack is very interesting, and when I get to lvl 18, I'll definitely know whether or not I have enough +ToHit to make full use of this feat. OTWF vs. Imp.Crit:Pierce is a good discussion, again, I think by lvl 15 I'll know whether I need extra +ToHit when dual wielding Rapiers or extra crit range.

Thank you all for the feed back, I'm really learning a lot here, and I believe I'm gonna enjoy taking this ranger to lvl 20.

Silvershaper
12-16-2009, 09:19 AM
You are taking a tougher path, with a steeper learning curve for grouping. Make sure to gather as many different types of arrows as you can and learn to manage your quivers and hotbars. I carry 3 huge quivers, 1 for Dmagae typed arrows (flaming, frost, acid, holy, etc...) 1 for slaying arrows, and one for +3 returning and metal typed arrows (cold iron, silver, etc..). As an Arcane Archer you won't need to worry about the +3 returning arrows since you can make your own (mine is Deepwoods).

Learn agro management well.

From raiding seriously in WoW with my Warlock three years ago, and using a G15 Keyboard, what I loved the most was building up the real life dex to have my fingers jump around on the macro buttons and keeping an eye on the aggro meter at all times (and yes, I still use the very same G15+G5 as three years ago, and I love it). It should be possible for me to use this experience to master changing between arrow types and the like. That's also why I'm looking forward to getting this char above lvl 6 and start doing some real ranged damage.

Speaking of WoW and aggro meter, are there any add-ons for DDO that I'm gonna need if I should start raiding at some point? Like DmgMeter or Omen or something like those?

tihocan
12-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Speaking of WoW and aggro meter, are there any add-ons for DDO that I'm gonna need if I should start raiding at some point? Like DmgMeter or Omen or something like those?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but you don't need any add-on to run DDO raids :)

deth2munkies
12-16-2009, 09:51 AM
From raiding seriously in WoW with my Warlock three years ago, and using a G15 Keyboard, what I loved the most was building up the real life dex to have my fingers jump around on the macro buttons and keeping an eye on the aggro meter at all times (and yes, I still use the very same G15+G5 as three years ago, and I love it). It should be possible for me to use this experience to master changing between arrow types and the like. That's also why I'm looking forward to getting this char above lvl 6 and start doing some real ranged damage.

Speaking of WoW and aggro meter, are there any add-ons for DDO that I'm gonna need if I should start raiding at some point? Like DmgMeter or Omen or something like those?

As someone who raided (as a warlock no less) endgame in WoW since BWL was new, I can tell you raiding here is a completely different experience. There are no 3rd party addons and no easy way to make/add them because they don't use the same system WoW does. You really don't need them, though. Aggro management is quite easy once you get a feel for things, it essentially comes down to "don't shoot something that hasn't been hit yet while Intimidate is down". Even if you do, with Blur/Displacement, Prot from/resist energy, decent armor, Barkskin, and Toughness (Stoneskin too if you can wrangle it) you can afford to pull aggro every once in a while against normal mobs, it's pretty forgiving. At least in my experience. I've only done 1 Tor run and many, many Tempest Spines which are both mid level raids.

rpasell
12-16-2009, 10:50 AM
Mental Toughness is to qualify for Arcane Archer.

Forgot about that, I turned my AA into a mule so I haven't played him in quite some time.

Sorry.

rpasell
12-16-2009, 11:49 AM
You may find this:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=220045
of interest.

hermespan
12-16-2009, 12:10 PM
Learn agro management well.
Words of wisdom. Pulling small numbers of mobs by hitting them with a bow doesn't work. You get everything in the vicinity. This can work for you, like if a nuker just dropped a firewall, stand in it and pull with a bow. Just be aware that only melee mobs will run into the firewall, caster and ranged mobs will happily nuke you from a distance.

Done improperly bow pulling will at best get you killed or turn you into the guy that eats all of the healer's spellpoints, at worst make your party hate you (XP loss from your death and/or party wipe).

Turn auto attack OFF. Holding your mouse button down isn't much more work ;)

Silvershaper
12-16-2009, 12:37 PM
You may find this:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=220045
of interest.

That is very interesting indeed, I'll keep an eye on that thread.


Words of wisdom. Pulling small numbers of mobs by hitting them with a bow doesn't work. You get everything in the vicinity. This can work for you, like if a nuker just dropped a firewall, stand in it and pull with a bow. Just be aware that only melee mobs will run into the firewall, caster and ranged mobs will happily nuke you from a distance.

Done improperly bow pulling will at best get you killed or turn you into the guy that eats all of the healer's spellpoints, at worst make your party hate you (XP loss from your death and/or party wipe).

Turn auto attack OFF. Holding your mouse button down isn't much more work ;)

Good advice, thank you. And so far, I'm usually holding down both mouse buttons more or less all the time while in combat :D