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View Full Version : Party Buffing and You!



zooble
11-26-2009, 10:58 PM
So I've been in quite a fair groups lately where certain buffs just don't get casted even if you explicitly ask for it

This applies to all classes that can buff but is primarily aimed at arcanes/divines

Buffing is as much benefit for the person wanting the buff as it is the person giving the buff. 1stly it allows them to chew through mobs making the run faster for everyone. 2ndly it allows you to complete a dungeon that could not be complete without. 3rdly certain buffs SAVE you sp (healers) so why arn't you casting them?

In dungeons i frequently end up with 2/3s sp on my cleric before moving off the starting pad yet in those runs i never require a pot or scroll plus i still have enough to self melee buff and do some pewpew.

Sorcs and FvS are also good for casting those repetitive spells... such as nukes and RE (yes RE is not just for clerics to cast). I've never had sp issues on my Sorc doing a full blur/required RE/GH buff on everyone.

The fastest way to buff is to F1->F6(or F12) and cast systematically. If you are unsure whether a person has a specific buff then click them and press "z".

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THE most important buffs that should ALWAYS be cast are:

Blur
on whole party otherwise just melee if you're cheap
20% chance to miss... thats 20% roughly less healing required... benefit is best seen when encountering hard hitting mobs... ie: when that 1 shotting ogre doesnt 1 shot you with his 5 instantaneous attacks
also functions on dart traps

Displacement
on whole party otherwise just melee if you're cheap
should be cast in addition to blur
50% chance to miss... thats just insane...
its short duration is probably what turns people off casting this. it is hands down one of the best defensive spells in the game. personally on my bard i always have it up on myself and other melee (extended)... if its a huge fight coming up ill cast it on everyone... if i know my sp will last to the shrine i will keep it up on everyone from the start.
the key is to keep moving so you get the most out of it.

Resist Energy (one of the most neglected yet one of the best defenses against damage spells)
on whole party
frankly a tank without RE charging into a pack of casters is suicide. casters are the ones that dish out the insane damage.
when someone say acid and fire resist... they mean the whole party NEEDs acid and fire resist... its not optional.
it will negate those acid arrows... reducing potentially lethal lightning bolts to manageable... reduce fire breath attacks to nothing etc etc
if you encounter 30 mobs in a run that cast fire spells.... chances are they will each get at least 1 cast off. thats at least 30 lots of (most likely aoe) damage negated completely or reduced significantly. resist energy is 15sp... how much sp do you think you will use on healing by not casting it? less than 15 per person you cast RE on?

Greater Heroism
on whole party otherwise just melee
+4 to attack is huge and a must have especially for TWFers. it can be the difference between hitting and not hitting... or missing lots to missing rarely.
fear immunity is must have when fears can literally last minutes
+4 saves isn't anything to sweep under the carpet

True Seeing
on melee when they ask for it
nothing is more annoying than 50% chance to miss due to mobs with displacement. it takes forever to kill and in the mean time your party is taking excessive damage meaning more heals required.

Haste
on everyone
i've never seen a problem with this... its the one spell that is universally accepted and casted by all who have it... and all who can get it DO have it

Freedom of Movement
on yourself... if needed then everyone
this doesn't just apply to that greasy spew from metal dogs. its paralise, hold person, etc etc aswell. it is a must have spell. personally on my cleric i cast it on myself(if im held i can't cast it) and if i see someone needing it later i will cast it on everyone. on hard/elite you will always encounter crowd control so you may as well cast it on everyone from the start. if someone is CCed then they can't kill or run away... not killing or moving out of fire means more incoming damage, meaning more heals required.

Protection from Elements
not a 'must' but it will let you walk through that elemental trap you cant disable. the mass version is easy... cast it once at the start. its a good indicator of what elemental damage you will encounter too so that you can cast the appropriate RE if you don't know what to expect. its essentially a '720 temp hitpoint buff'... can't argue with that.

Death Ward
on everyone
energy drains... negative levels... con dmg...
you'll expend more sp restoring everyone than a simple death ward. death ward is 25sp... restore is 25sp but restore requires multiple casts for neg levels. also if someone is level drained they will most likely lose ALOT of sp.
Restore only trumps DW when fighting beholders but you'll want the greater version for that.

Lesser, Restore, Greater
on anyone who needs it
a melee with fatigue/enfeeble etc is pratically useless
a caster with fatigue etc is probably going to die if he tries to kite mobs through his fw
anyone with level drain will soon be killed due to low saves... not to mention severely weakened in the mean time.
self sufficient players can lesser restore themselves but most will not be able to restore/greater restore.

Protection from Evil
on everyone before fighting mobs like vampires
low level evil charm immunity

Holy Aura
enchantment immunity... what more could you ask for?

Spell Resistance Mass
2nd layer of defense... also a 1st and ONLY layer of defense against certain spells

Curatives - Remove curse, poison, disease, blindness etc
anyone that requires it
self sufficient players can cure themselves but in the heat of battle someone else curing it is better in many ways.
personally i use clickies/wands

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Everything else is gravy and cast as you see fit. The above guide if adhered to will make everyone's life easier including your own. The only class i can see having an issue is a wizard doing every single one of his buffs... other than that there should be no problems and if there are, then its the group thats fail and not your sp usage.

Soulken
11-27-2009, 12:30 AM
On a lot of curatives smart people carry potions, and several of those other buffs I am not usually gonna waste my sp on proc evil, should be wearing your silver flame trinket if needed, displacement I will cast sometimes on the melees right before combat otherwise its duration is to low, if I dont have mass I am not casting protection from elements it doesnt stack with resist, GH,TS I will sometimes cast in the melees if its really needed. haste well we are addicted to that one. Holy aura dont even have it on my spell list I make my saves and rarely cast spell resist.

MrCow
11-27-2009, 12:34 AM
Holy Aura
enchantment immunity... what more could you ask for?

Can I request a screenshot proof of this or something to solidify this? I'll admit I haven't used it in Update 1, but prior to that I have never had it grant immunity to enchantments (Crushing Despair, Otto's Dance, Symbol of Stunning, etc.). The reason most divines use it (if they do) is for the stacking bonus to saves.

dopey69
11-27-2009, 01:40 AM
i have always buffed with everything i got and never had a problem with sp's I find the more I buff the less i have to heal end of story . even at low lvls my girls get bulls and bears to uber up all the littlins :)
/signed

Strakyn
11-27-2009, 07:03 AM
I can understand Sorc's having no problems but as a Wiz i do have a problem with Sp's when buffing. Not always but in alot of cases.
Im only level 9, around 740 sps, so limited in spells but this is what i keep up.
All my spells besides wall of fire and Snow are CC spells. then i have my buffs.
I always keep up
Heroism, P-Energy, Bulls Strength,P-Evil........then i wand blur ( i gave up on displacement, 1 because it doesnt last long, and 2 it was taking a slot i needed for CC) and ill wand R-Energy if someone speaks up and knows its needed coming up in the quest.
So ill hero and PE everyone......Bull the tanks...and blur everyone. Thats about it.Ill have 3/4 sps by now.
Haste of course i always do.I also pretty much keep an extra wand of everything for emergencies. From every Buff( including Int/ Wis for runes) to extra heal wands for clerics, to charm wands.
But thats about as far as i go, if i try to buff with everything i have instead im getting towards 1/2 SP before the quest even begins. Ive had a few quests people telling me to save the buffs....that CC and firewall are more important.
Again im still learning, so i might have it wrong, but my CC spells come 1st when im setting them in the tavern....then whatever spaces i have left is for buffs tho Haste and P-Energy is always a must.

Talon_Moonshadow
11-27-2009, 07:49 AM
With good effective CC, you won't need buffs, AC, HP, or healing.

Plus I will have fun actually having SP and getting to cast spell in a quest, instead of watching the melees have all the fun while I sit around without SP.

Or on my cleric go broke healing them with consumables, since I spent all my SP on buffs.

However, I will give those buffs asked for, and mass buffs are cheap.

And actually I carry weapons to use when I'm out of SP and consumables.

But like I said, effective CC makes any dungeon a cakewalk.

Carlll
11-27-2009, 07:39 PM
OP sounds like he is buying mana pots from the cheat store like mad.
For example, tossing Displacement around all the time? This even puts a heavy burden on level 20 casters in Shavarath, let alone a level 5 Wizard who would run dry after 2 minutes or so.

Buffs can be crucial, certainly. But tossing them around with no concern to cost doesnt make for efficient questing.

Fishy
11-29-2009, 12:02 AM
I'm not your buffbot or babysitter.

Good crowd control is better than buffs, and for me personally, more fun. Plus Favored Souls and Sorcs have limited spell slots.

That being said, I do give out "basic" buffs to the party at the beginning of each quest and at each shrine. Other buffs are situational, and I toss those out as needed.

Keeping everybody displaced for an entire quest that isn't zerged will drain even a high-level sorc. Casting extended GH on an entire party for a mid-level Wiz can take half his spell points.

Certain curatives (e.g. lesser restoration, remove curse, etc) are available in potion form, and every character over level 10 can afford them. The cost per quest is trivial at that point. Mana should be used for burst healing unless you are absolutely positive that the quest will be easy for your party.

If you feel a "need" for certain buffs, feel free to provide your caster with scrolls, wands, or mneumonics.

nibel
11-29-2009, 07:12 AM
Casting extended GH on an entire party for a mid-level Wiz can take half his spell points.

As a primary wizard player, i must say that an entire party with extended GH will make most quests much easier (except if you face debuffers, like beholders). +4 to hit/damage/saves/skills is a BIG bonus. A few cc spells here and there, and some damaging if anyone is close to you, and youre fine.

If you wish to be a caster that fod everything on sight, and max wof every group you cant fod in seconds, i think you should be happier being a sorcerer. Specially because you can shrug each buff just saying "i dont have it" and "my GH comes from planar gird".

Aranticus
11-29-2009, 07:56 AM
the key here is to buff just enough but not overbuff

displacement is not needed on all the melees, if there is an intimitank, then i will cast it on him if hes tanking. a high ac toon that mobs hits only on a 20 does not need displacement too

true see? in a group with instakill specced casters, its not needed. most of the blurred/displaced mobs are casters which are easy to instakill

resist energy is not needed all the time. fire, cold and elect is probably the most needed, acid and sonic can be easily mitigated with prot spells

a combination of heros feast and bard songs make GH redundant

everyone should have their own lesser restore

prot evil does not give immunity to charms, only dominate. only a handful of quests require it

as to curatives, again, everyone should have them