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2ndEditionRules
11-23-2009, 11:55 AM
Human rogue/wizard? Anyone done it yet? Is it balanced or too gimp?

ReaperAlexEU
11-23-2009, 12:08 PM
depends on the mix, 1-2 rogue and rest wiz is a good combo when done right. the wizards high INT gives enough skills to max out the rogue stuff. also having more INT than a regular rogue will offset the other bonuses rogues get to trap skills. loosing 1-2 levels of wiz will make you a bit weaker, but there are still plenty of tricks you can do.

going 1-2 wiz however doesnt really give much a pure rogue can't get from UMD.

going deep in both classes, well, that depends what you want to do and may not work well.

so, what mix were you thinking of and what did you want to achieve?

2ndEditionRules
11-23-2009, 12:24 PM
depends on the mix, 1-2 rogue and rest wiz is a good combo when done right. the wizards high INT gives enough skills to max out the rogue stuff. also having more INT than a regular rogue will offset the other bonuses rogues get to trap skills. loosing 1-2 levels of wiz will make you a bit weaker, but there are still plenty of tricks you can do.

going 1-2 wiz however doesnt really give much a pure rogue can't get from UMD.

going deep in both classes, well, that depends what you want to do and may not work well.

so, what mix were you thinking of and what did you want to achieve?

Not sure on levels yet, but I wanted to choose Human to acquire more feats and go heaviest on Int for skill points to distribute and start as Rogue first to minimize the number of cross class skills. I thought the self buffs would come in handy for a Rogue so I can have higher AC without increasing spell failure rate. Also have ability to use arcane wands without spending too many points in UMD. Having a knock spell ready for when I'm having a bad day with open lock would also be handy. Anything else I should be taking into consideration with this combination? Strengths? Weaknesses?

Phidius
11-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Not sure on levels yet, but I wanted to choose Human to acquire more feats and go heaviest on Int for skill points to distribute and start as Rogue first to minimize the number of cross class skills. I thought the self buffs would come in handy for a Rogue so I can have higher AC without increasing spell failure rate. Also have ability to use arcane wands. Having a knock spell ready for when I'm having a bad day with open lock would also be handy. Anything else I should be taking into consideration with this combination? Strengths? Weaknesses?

You'll need to determine what your primary focus will be first (i.e., casting or melee?), and how many levels of each.

18/2 Wiz/Rog who primarily casts is an accepted build.

17/3 Rog/Wiz who focuses on traps/locks needs to prove itself.

tihocan
11-23-2009, 12:46 PM
Not sure on levels yet, but I wanted to choose Human to acquire more feats and go heaviest on Int for skill points to distribute and start as Rogue first to minimize the number of cross class skills. I thought the self buffs would come in handy for a Rogue so I can have higher AC without increasing spell failure rate. Also have ability to use arcane wands without spending too many points in UMD. Having a knock spell ready for when I'm having a bad day with open lock would also be handy. Anything else I should be taking into consideration with this combination? Strengths? Weaknesses?
You want UMD anyways, which makes the wizard levels mostly wasted in the long term.
The wiz buffs can still be handy when soloing, but overall you're hurting yourself, especially since you're losing BAB on a class that is already 3/4 BAB, and can't really afford to lose more.

Oh, and Open Locks >> Knock any day.

ReaperAlexEU
11-23-2009, 12:57 PM
Not sure on levels yet, but I wanted to choose Human to acquire more feats and go heaviest on Int for skill points to distribute and start as Rogue first to minimize the number of cross class skills. I thought the self buffs would come in handy for a Rogue so I can have higher AC without increasing spell failure rate. Also have ability to use arcane wands without spending too many points in UMD. Having a knock spell ready for when I'm having a bad day with open lock would also be handy. Anything else I should be taking into consideration with this combination? Strengths? Weaknesses?

don't worry about the race, humans work well for just about any thing.

UMD is a slow burning skill, but come end game if you paid attention to it you will be able to raise the cleric from the dead, and that for me is worth all the skill points on a build that has access to UMD!

don't think you'll get anything from knock unless u got 18 wiz and dump the open lock skill. doing knock off a scroll or wand it largely a waste of time, it needs some character skills which means either the real spell with lots of caster levels or the real skill. the skill doesnt need to be maxed out, but still needs a fair few points to work well. knock as a spell is not an automatic success, it just emulates the skill and you cant add any bonuses to your roll like you can with the skill.

so for both UMD and locks i see no reason to not go pure rogue. the AC buffs can come from pots (shield of faith and barkskin at +3 each from house J vendor). at the moment it seems the wiz levels are just for early convenience, but you may regret them in the end when UMD finally matures.

so instead of making a rogue that has some real spells, what about making a wizard that can also do traps? turning it about will put you into a class combo that does work well. yes it won't make you unique, but flavour aside your aims don't seem to be well serviced by the wiz splash. now if your just after flavour then thats a different question, nothing quite like having your own uniquely gimped character that works with a bit of tinkering :)