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Mavren
11-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Thanks in advance for the help.

My Question, hopefully, is rather simple:

Is DR reliable enough and powerful enough to be considered a main line of defense?
How does It compare to AC?

Basically, I want to know much harder it would be to be kept alive if beat on with high DR, Moderate - low AC compared to High AC, Low DR.

hydra_ex
11-22-2009, 02:36 PM
Thanks in advance for the help.

My Question, hopefully, is rather simple:

Is DR reliable enough and powerful enough to be considered a main line of defense?
How does It compare to AC?

Basically, I want to know much harder it would be to be kept alive if beat on with high DR, Moderate - low AC compared to High AC, Low DR.

High AC is better than High DR, but DR is much easier to attain, and in a lot of cases, does not compromise your DPS as much.

DR, though, always makes a difference. In many situations, AC will not. So even that 5 DR/- from warchanter is better off than a 50 AC is a lot of content.

Mavren
11-22-2009, 02:44 PM
High AC is better than High DR, but DR is much easier to attain, and in a lot of cases, does not compromise your DPS as much.

DR, though, always makes a difference. In many situations, AC will not. So even that 5 DR/- from warchanter is better off than a 50 AC is a lot of content.

Do you think a high DR/ High hp character could tank a large part of endgame stuff when needed?
(Tank = take the hits and live)

Doesn't have to be the hardest bosses, just the vast majority of em.

ReaperAlexEU
11-23-2009, 06:29 AM
for the price of a +5 heavy steel shield you can DR spec a dorf barbarian and have enough DR to be useful in the vale. taking that path however will weaken your DPS.

AC tanking is superior to DR tanking, mainly because you can kill things when AC tanking. with DR tanking you can slowly whittle down most mobs, but it takes ages. Having said that you can have a solid DR tank all the way into the vale while most AC tanks will break in gianthold until you can grind all the gear to get above the curve. This is because you will get experience faster than you will get the rare gear to max out the AC.

i keep mentioning the vale because thats all i've played with my DR tank, he's at lvl17 now. his DR is enough to tank the vale quests on elite, though he will generally do DPS in most situations and only swap to tank mode if things go wrong. The DPS has suffered compared to a normal barbarian, but its not dreadful.

take a look if your interested:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325391

i see fump as a poor man's tank, i'd never claim him to be superior to a proper AC tank, but he has proven to be superior to an AC tank thats missing the gear. i've had fun playing him, but he's taken a back seat to my first proper AC tank who is at lvl20 and still missing a few bits of gear to polish the AC off #mutters about the grinding needed#.

few quick pointers for DR tanking, back into a corner before you block, shield DR only applies to attacks from the front. if you are jumping to a spot to block hit block AFTER you land, not while in mid air. if you time it wrong you'll land with your shield down. focus on bashing any mob that looks like it might get behind you, that tends to be the one thats discovered it can levitate and is busy floating about your head. if you find the mobs have got behind then use a DR boost and make a run for a better spot.

tihocan
11-23-2009, 08:54 AM
Do you think a high DR/ High hp character could tank a large part of endgame stuff when needed?
(Tank = take the hits and live)

Doesn't have to be the hardest bosses, just the vast majority of em.
Yes. It's usually more expensive for the healers (than a high AC character), but it works. Currently being warforged with enough healing amplification stuff is what works best, because arcanes can help with the heals, and repair spells are not affected by some cursing effects that some raid bosses toss around (which prevent healing).

ReaperAlexEU
11-23-2009, 12:00 PM
warning: i can't help but waffle on about this, sorry.

hmm, bit of distinction needed here i think, there are 2 parts to DR, active and passive. hydra_ex and tihocan are talking about passive DR, i was waffling about active DR.

when you run about swinging a sword you may have some passive DR listed on your character sheet. that is typically stone skin, some adamantium armour or WF/barbarians natural DR. That passive DR will always help reduce the cleric heal bill, but will never eliminate it.

The active DR is when you hold the block button, typically with a shield equipped. When you block your trading your ability to hurt the monster for an ability to absorb a lot more of the monsters damage without getting hurt. With the right build or gear (there is a nice shield from a raid with lots of DR) you can have enough DR to absorb all the damage a mob is doing to you, which will eliminate the clerics healing bill. This can be great in a normal quest when when you can get all the mobs to hit you so the party takes no damage. It won't work in your average raid when the whole party is getting hurt and you will only be slowing down the time it takes to kill the boss by not contributing to the DPS.

You can compare passive DR to having a token amount of AC, it will reduce the damage your taking a bit, but you will still take damage. Most AC tanks will go through a phase where they have a token amount of AC, so a good amount of passive DR will compare nicely to that. When an AC tank is completed it will ignore 95% of the damage (like us mobs get an auto hit if they roll a 20), compared to a tank like that a passive DR no AC toon will be very squishy.

An active DR tank can ignore 100% of a mobs damage in a regular quest, and can do that all the way into the vale with no period of squishyness. However an active DR tank will slow the party down as the DPS from shield bashing is laughable at best. An active DR tank can help a bad party complete the quest, even at the slower pace, because they can tank and they can reduce the clerics healing bill. Its just not a very good way to do it compared to AC, which is why I call my fumpgrr a poor man's tank. also i'd like to emphasise "can ignore 100%", its a theory, get 1 mob and shield block with good DR and it will never take off a single hit point. try doing that in the chaos of of a quest and your going to take some knocks, it takes a lot more player work to active DR tank than it does to AC tank.

In a raid lots of HP will be very helpful, and if you don't have a big buffer you may very well die between the clerics mass heals. passive DR on top will certainly help, but there tends to be a lot of magic flying about too which passive DR wont affect (hence the tons of buffs you get). active DR aside from a few exceptions is not advisable in raids. hydra_ex and tihocan have given some solid advice on passive DR and i don't meant to sound like i'm contradicting them. i was just waffling on about another active DR and thats not really for raids.