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Woundwolf42
11-20-2009, 05:27 PM
I know traps are bugged, but with no information about said bug and any fix forthcoming from the devs, I decided to try my hand at making a trapsmith that wasn't completly useless in combat. Any feedback would be appreciated.

This build is taking advantage of 32 pt builds, and the +2 to all stats tome currently on sale in the DDO store.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(2 Monk \ 12 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 258
Spell Points: 100
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 28
Will: 18

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 12 14 14
Dexterity 16 22 26
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 12 14 14
Wisdom 16 19 20
Charisma 8 10 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 28 28
Bluff 0 0 2
Concentration 3 3 3
Diplomacy 0 23 23
Disable Device 6 25 32
Haggle 0 6 7
Heal 4 5 5
Hide 8 17 19
Intimidate 0 0 0
Jump 6 10 12
Listen 4 5 7
Move Silently 8 18 20
Open Lock 8 31 38
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 6
Search 6 25 29
Spot 8 28 32
Swim 2 2 2
Tumble 5 9 9
Use Magic Device 4 23 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) III
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) III
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II




I picked slashing weapons for use with kamas if you want the monk bonuses, or scimitars if you are interested in crit damage.

Im sure there are better trapsmith builds out there, but I thought with the monk and ranger bonuses to combat (High AC, Attack Speed) this would do well in the rest of the questing as well, instead of focusing soley on traps.

I figure properly equipped (minos, +6 stat gear, +5 Prot, and +5 Resist, +15 skill gear). This would be a highly survivable build, even without some of the hard to come by gear that can take long months of grinding (raid and crafting gear)

Woundwolf42
11-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Im not sure what the protocol for Enhancements are for the forums, I just put them in at the end of the build since I would assume that most people would reset them at level 20 to get rid of all wasted slots they may no longer want or need once they reach the cap anyways.

canacorn
11-20-2009, 06:17 PM
stat and skill point allocation look pretty good. open lock could stand to be a little lower- maybe shore up jump a bit. feats look strong as well. one thing i would insist on would be weapon finesse- maybe a slight shuffle (pick it up at 3) and swap out oversized two weapon fighting. going dex based with a halfling in a dex enhancable class, i believe will leave you pretty solid to-hit without it. unfortunately, while kamas are, scimitars are not finessable- rapiers will do the trick though. if you like scimmis, i would recomend bumping strength at least to 14 (wis could drop a bit) on a halfling and do all stat raises there. in that case you could stick with otwf. lastly you might consider 1 less monk level and 1 more rogue level. at rogue 13 one could have improved evasion and, more importantly, crippling strike- basically making any weapon you wield weakening/enfeebling. an extra d6 sneak attack at 13 is kinda nice too. of little consequence- the planner still allows tomes at level 1. that +2 intel wouldn't kick in until 7- leaving you minutely shorter on skill points.

Goldeneye
11-20-2009, 06:19 PM
Read my build:Krythen: Tempest Survivability Rogue 13/6/1 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=186007)
Krythen is currently level 20, capped, extremely well geared, and my favorite toon.


My recommendations:
Go STR Based. By going finesse, your DPS will really suffer if your not getting sneak attack.
Go 13 rogue / 6 ranger / 1 monk: 13 Rogue gives you much more (rogue feat, sneak attack ap) then 2 monk (stances=not useful, already have evasion, don't need AP)
don't worry the trap skills - as long as you keep them maxed each rogue level, and have decent gear, that is all 99% of the traps in the game require.
ML 1 +2 Tomes no longer exist, you might want to move those to level 7

Woundwolf42
11-20-2009, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the advice, I didn't realize 13 was such a good level for rogues, I went 2 on monk because of that stance that adds the 2 extra dex, but I guess I dont really need it. And I didn't go the finesse route because I refuse to go rapiers, Kamas and Scimitars are both slashing weapons, and its nice to have the flexibility to go back and forth if you want the monk bonus for whatever reason, the to hit should be plenty high with the TWF line and the +str gear. As for the tomes, I forgot about +2 tomes not appliying to level 7, but wether you take them at 7 or 1 the end stats will be the same, just a few less skill points. I was just throwing them whereever at the end anyways, since all the rogue skills and UMD, Diplo were maxxed out. I was under the impression that having a Jump higher then 10-15 with the modifyer is a waste since the spell will cap the skill out anyways at that point, and pots are cheap.

Dropping the wis kind of defeats the whole purpose of taking the monk level IMO, What good is it to use your wis bonus to your AC when you wis bonus sucks?

With halfing cunning/guile and the rogue sneak attack dmg, i think it more then makes up for a few less points in STR, which will be augmented with gear/pots/spells anyways. As for fort mobs and undead/construsts well, thats what disrupters/banishers are for.

canacorn
11-20-2009, 10:44 PM
just to clarify... you'll have a 16 base attack bonus and a 20 strength (12+2 tome +6 stat item), maybe 22 with greensteel. you're confident this is adequate endgame? i urge you to do a little more research, sir.

Goldeneye
11-21-2009, 04:35 PM
Once I get home, I'll post a pic of my damage Krythen can deal. I started w/ a MAX STR of 16 (halfling), and though it was expensive I don't regret it.


In terms of monk 1, you take it for lack of something better:
14 rogue = nothing good
7 ranger = nothing good
1 fighter / 1 barb = does not outweigh the benefits of 1 monk. (feat, saves, small wis-> ac)

Goldeneye
11-21-2009, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the advice, I didn't realize 13 was such a good level for rogues, I went 2 on monk because of that stance that adds the 2 extra dex, but I guess I dont really need it.

you won't use the stances. Unless you want to gimp your damage for a little more AC, 2 monk isn't as good as 13 rogue. I have a monster build as well (12 ftr / 6 rgr / 2 monk), and I never use the stances

And I didn't go the finesse route because I refuse to go rapiers, Kamas and Scimitars are both slashing weapons, and its nice to have the flexibility to go back and forth if you want the monk bonus for whatever reason,

Good choice.... not being limited to light weapons makes a huge difference in the availability and ease of collecting good weapons.

the to hit should be plenty high with the TWF line and the +str gear.

For normal-through elite quests, your to-hit will be plenty while backstabbing. However, on my rogue, when I'm running end-game elite quests, I find that if my to-hit was even a few points lower, I would feel the difference. So, in normal quests you won't have a problem,, but in Epic and such you might have to use divine power/madstone / kensei set bonus and other items to increase your to-hit

As for the tomes, I forgot about +2 tomes not appliying to level 7, but wether you take them at 7 or 1 the end stats will be the same, just a few less skill points. I was just throwing them whereever at the end anyways, since all the rogue skills and UMD, Diplo were maxxed out. I was under the impression that having a Jump higher then 10-15 with the modifyer is a waste since the spell will cap the skill out anyways at that point, and pots are cheap.

You have a great understanding of skills. UMD and Diplo are huge for this build. In terms of jump, the combination of Ranger jump spell + dex mod + GH and other buffs, you will easily be able reach the cap.

Dropping the wis kind of defeats the whole purpose of taking the monk level IMO, What good is it to use your wis bonus to your AC when you wis bonus sucks?
Krythen has 8 base wisdom. +2 Tome +6 Wis = little but more ac, but is just a cherry on top of the other monk bonuses

With halfing cunning/guile and the rogue sneak attack dmg, i think it more then makes up for a few less points in STR, which will be augmented with gear/pots/spells anyways. As for fort mobs and undead/construsts well, thats what disrupters/banishers are for.

Don't take this approach. End-game ddo is so dependent on high DPS, that sacrificing any damage isn't worth it in my opinion. You will find that on undead/constructs/elementals, your DPS will really suffer unless you have the perfect weapons (Krythen is dual weilding Min II khopeshes w/ force ritual :) = awesome)



My opinions in red (I had a few extra minutes to burn)

Ardkor
11-21-2009, 06:19 PM
Once I get home, I'll post a pic of my damage Krythen can deal. I started w/ a MAX STR of 16 (halfling), and though it was expensive I don't regret it.


In terms of monk 1, you take it for lack of something better:
14 rogue = nothing good
7 ranger = nothing good
1 fighter / 1 barb = does not outweigh the benefits of 1 monk. (feat, saves, small wis-> ac)

Slightly off topic, but relevant for me...I have a WF soloist, and I went with a 13/6/1 build as well, but took Wizard for the odd level, early in the build (4th level). I wanted access to repair wands and utility spells without having to rely on UMD. I have a dwarf with a similar build, and he took the odd level as a monk.

Woundwolf42
11-22-2009, 04:35 AM
Again, thanks for the feedback, but there is something I think you guys overlooked, this isnt a DPS build, I understand what you are saying about sacrificing DPS at high end elite and epic runs will hurt, but this is a trapper build that can survive a combat, thats all I was aiming for. Ive seen too many trapsmiths who think they need to go pure rogue/high INT who are absolutly useless in combat even on normal/hard runs do to thier lack of understanding about skills an multiclass mechanics. I was simply trying to work out a build that could avoid that for 95% of the game. Epic difficulty isnt what I set this build up for. If I was after a DPS build that could work on epic, I would run a 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk, or something similar, or a Barb. While I definatly agree that the lack of str will be a burden in the end game, my defense towards that is that all Im working towards with this build, is a trapper who can disarm almost everything he comes across, and doesnt have to stand in the back of the room whenever theres a fight.

And while a raid may be upset with me when im not churning out the massive massive damage they would expect from a DPS build at epic levels, I bet theyll forget all about it when Im the only one who can disarm the trap that no one else can, and I dont need to be babysat on the way to it, and after it.

Angelus_dead
11-22-2009, 05:21 AM
Again, thanks for the feedback, but there is something I think you guys overlooked, this isnt a DPS build, I understand what you are saying about sacrificing DPS at high end elite and epic runs will hurt, but this is a trapper build that can survive a combat, thats all I was aiming for.
A "trapper build" is not a useful thing to aim for.

It would also be possible to make a "swimmer build", but that wouldn't make sense either.

canacorn
11-22-2009, 09:00 AM
much agreed. to eliminate a rogues dps is to disregard their greatest asset imo. while i'll agree that i tend to dedicate a bit more to them than the average power gamer, rogue skills are secondary. with moderate to high ranks in skills, a moderate intel, level appropriate skill items (typically goggles as these are easy/convenient to swap), and typical buffs, even a dps built rogue can get 99.9% of traps out there. i would venture to say what you've encountered were rogues still sporting their +3 korthos gear when they could be using using much better. this has been my experience when chatting with a lot of new rogue players. while i understand your desire for ac- don't burn a lot of build points there just to bork yourself in another area. don't forget that playstyle/ aggro management/ and that diplo skill which you rightfully took care of offer a lot in terms of defense. my first toon is a rogue i built based on pnp experience- which doesn't translate all that great to ddo. he boasts barely 300 hp and a mid to high 30s ac depending on buffs. he's no dynamo, but he can readily do near 100 damage a swing and jump around like a sissy slinging res scrolls whilst other party members have succumbed.

Goldeneye
11-22-2009, 01:23 PM
Slightly off topic, but relevant for me...I have a WF soloist, and I went with a 13/6/1 build as well, but took Wizard for the odd level, early in the build (4th level). I wanted access to repair wands and utility spells without having to rely on UMD. I have a dwarf with a similar build, and he took the odd level as a monk.

Ha ha, that's a funny idea. on Krythen my rogue, it takes me 2 seconds to switch to my UMD gear, hit my skill boost, and enjoy over 45 UMD. No-fail heal scrolls/rez scrolls/pretty much everything else. That isn't a problem

Goldeneye
11-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Again, thanks for the feedback, but there is something I think you guys overlooked, this isnt a DPS build, I understand what you are saying about sacrificing DPS at high end elite and epic runs will hurt, but this is a trapper build that can survive a combat, thats all I was aiming for. Ive seen too many trapsmiths who think they need to go pure rogue/high INT who are absolutly useless in combat even on normal/hard runs do to thier lack of understanding about skills an multiclass mechanics. I was simply trying to work out a build that could avoid that for 95% of the game. Epic difficulty isnt what I set this build up for. If I was after a DPS build that could work on epic, I would run a 12 fighter 6 ranger 2 monk, or something similar, or a Barb. While I definatly agree that the lack of str will be a burden in the end game, my defense towards that is that all Im working towards with this build, is a trapper who can disarm almost everything he comes across, and doesnt have to stand in the back of the room whenever theres a fight.

And while a raid may be upset with me when im not churning out the massive massive damage they would expect from a DPS build at epic levels, I bet theyll forget all about it when Im the only one who can disarm the trap that no one else can, and I dont need to be babysat on the way to it, and after it.

Even a pure DPS rogue, w/ the proper gear has absolutely no problem w/ any trap in the game. Don't gimp yourself. groups want DPS. Anyone who makes a "trap" rogue, is completely missing a rogue's full potential.

In terms of DPS, pre -prestige classes, no one could out-dps a STR rogue getting full sneak attack damage. That still remains almost true, a DPS rogue is ridiculously deadly

Solostoran
11-22-2009, 01:45 PM
I have a 12/6/2 tempest rogue..

Prolly my favorite build.

Went acrobat for the immuntiy knockdown.

Dps is insane, as long as you don't have agro

Goldeneye
11-23-2009, 10:49 PM
Krythen's DPS:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2578742#post2578742

Ardkor
11-28-2009, 05:17 AM
Ha ha, that's a funny idea. on Krythen my rogue, it takes me 2 seconds to switch to my UMD gear, hit my skill boost, and enjoy over 45 UMD. No-fail heal scrolls/rez scrolls/pretty much everything else. That isn't a problem

Hmmm...why is that a funny idea? You have 45 UMD at 6th level? Who are you rezzing when you solo?

The odd wizard level means I can use repair wands (and many others) without making a UMD check at all. I do have UMD skill, and later in my career it will help with alignment restricted things, but its not a critical skill for my build at all. I have ranger levels to give me access to other items as well, so it works out very well for a soloist. No gear switching or skill boosting to stress over either, though I suppose I could if needed.