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JasRenkai
11-17-2009, 09:36 PM
12fighter/6ranger/2rogue

Should I just do the first two levels of rogue early on back to back? I started AS rogue, and I want the mad skill points from starting as a rogue and evasion.....Right now I am 1rogue/1ranger....anyone know whats best?

Quintun
11-17-2009, 09:38 PM
12fighter/6ranger/2rogue

Should I just do the first two levels of rogue early on back to back? I started AS rogue, and I want the mad skill points from starting as a rogue and evasion.....Right now I am 1rogue/1ranger....anyone know whats best?

You may want to save that rogue level until mid game to make sure you can keep the important rogue skills going. WHich ones will you be using? Answering that question will make it easier to help you decide.

DoctorWhofan
11-17-2009, 09:40 PM
Ranger/rogue synergy is enoguh he may get away from needing to take a second level of it. However, I'd wait until later before deciding the second level of Rogue.

JasRenkai
11-17-2009, 09:47 PM
You may want to save that rogue level until mid game to make sure you can keep the important rogue skills going. WHich ones will you be using? Answering that question will make it easier to help you decide.

All of them lol. UMD, Spot, Search, Disable Trap, Pick Lock, Haggle and Diplomacy? Ya I think I might really just sit on that rogue level for a while.

DoctorWhofan
11-17-2009, 09:52 PM
All of them lol. UMD, Spot, Search, Disable Trap, Pick Lock, Haggle and Diplomacy? Ya I think I might really just sit on that rogue level for a while.

seach and spot can be done with Ranger levels/enhancments. the rest...Diplomacy? why that? I would hate you taking too many levels of rogue ending up regretting it for missing last Tempest PrE.

Quintun
11-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Ranger/rogue synergy is enoguh he may get away from needing to take a second level of it. However, I'd wait until later before deciding the second level of Rogue.

He is taking 6 ranger levels and 12 fighter. The synergy is kind of lost with that split.

Quintun
11-17-2009, 09:54 PM
All of them lol. UMD, Spot, Search, Disable Trap, Pick Lock, Haggle and Diplomacy? Ya I think I might really just sit on that rogue level for a while.

You are asking for the moon and it will not work. What are your stats? What did you start with for INT? With that many fighter levels you will be lucky to keep Disable, spot and search maxed while taking enough Open lock to open any lock in the game on a decent roll. The others are going to be very hard when over half your levels are fighter.

Sitting on the rogue level will not give you enough points by itself.

Quintun
11-17-2009, 09:55 PM
seach and spot can be done with Ranger levels/enhancments. the rest...Diplomacy? why that? I would hate you taking too many levels of rogue ending up regretting it for missing last Tempest PrE.

You might want to check his preferred build and then give advice.

DoctorWhofan
11-17-2009, 09:58 PM
He is taking 6 ranger levels and 12 fighter. The synergy is kind of lost with that split.

oucH! Then Diplo is a waste then. Haggle too really. UMD isn't really needed with ranger (for heal wands)

Thething is, the more multiclass you go, the worse you can get with any misstep. THere are some things that will be sacrificed for an optimal character at endgame. 2 levels Rogue, 6 ranger and the rest Fighter. soak up points for open lock, DD, seach and spot. NOTHING ELSE. He should have enough points for that. Use Ranger (or elven if possible) enhancements for spot and search. Same for ranger skill boost (human being one the best, if you are one).

DoyleL
11-18-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm doing a 2 rog/6 ran/12 ftr build that was based on another build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202620). I'm PD, FTP, and only have 28 pt builds, so this is what I came up with:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Raezyra Starsinger
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 10
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 17
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 20
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 10 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 10
Bluff 0 3
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device 5 15
Haggle 0 0
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 7
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 6 11
Listen -1 2
Move Silently 7 11
Open Lock 7 12
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 5 14
Spot 3 16
Swim 2 5
Tumble 7 10
Use Magic Device 4 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I



I chose Longsword for RP reasons, but you could just as easily go Rapier.

Edit: Just noticed the skills are off on this one. I originally really pumped UMD, but after the buff to elite traps, I've moved a lot of those points to Spot and DD.

Mockduck
11-18-2009, 03:34 PM
I'd say a good guidelines, plenty of exceptions of course, is to wait to take that second level of rogue until at least level 7. The reasons:

- Evasion isn't so important at the lower levels.
- You will want a "mid-path" boost in skill point allocation, which taking that rogue level later can provide.
- You will have a better sense of which skills need to be boosted.
- You will (somewhat) have a better sense of what skill boost items you have/need.

I usually wait until level 7 myself.

Mangloid
11-18-2009, 03:49 PM
For full maximization of Skill points wait till level 13. Most will never wait that long, but if you're a min/maxer you might.

LrdSlvrhnd
11-21-2009, 12:36 AM
I'd have to agree with the others... wait. You can keep up with the Search/Spot/Sneak skills as a ranger, and then when you take a second class of rogue you can dump *all* your skill points for that level into DD/OD (with emphasis on DD, 'cause OD you can just keep at it until you roll a 20 if you don't mind burning through tools. DD, not so much, once that panel explodes in your face...). Taking the second level of Rogue early on, you'll only be able to improve them to 5 (or actually 6, as you're already a level 2 character) as a class skill; waiting until, say, level 7 you'll be able to pump them up to 10. I can't say anything about UMD, 'cause I didn't bother with it. I haven't come across many wands yet where I've said "Damn, I wish I could use that!" Actually, I don't think I've come across ANY... clickies work just as well in most cases.

As a side note: As a Rogue 1/Ranger 6, pumping half a point into DD every ranger level just 'cause I can, I've not come across a lock or trap I can't deal with yet. Other than the occasional Critical Failure boom-in-my-face. I think getting to Ranger 6 and all those fun toys that come with it is more useful than the second Rogue level. I'd wait on that until you feel you absolutely need to. Other than Sneak Attack Accuracy, I think all those other Rogue enhancements are available at level 1, so you won't lose much by waiting. But you improve a lot by getting all the Ranger stuff one level earlier.