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DANTEIL
11-15-2009, 12:21 AM
Warning, this is going to be a rant, because I'm starting to get frustrated with this game. I want to really like it, but I think I've hit a wall. My wiz just reached 5th level, but I can't seem to get any further.

I would like to group more, but I'm starting to think that the 'wonderful' group experience that I've seen people describe on here is a myth. Almost every group I've joined is not cohesive, unwilling to listen and/or share info, and all too willing to leave me to die. And I do die. Repeatedly. My gear is starting to get really worn from all of the repairs I've had to do. And also, if people post an LFM, they really should indicate if they are going to try elite, because then I'll know to stay away.

And if I solo, I die. Repeatedly. A hireling helps, but I can't keep that up every time.

I've bought adventure packs, but I can't use them because I die. Repeatedly.

I'm in a guild, but they don't seem all that interested in grouping. Or they're at the wrong level to group together.

Yes, one solution is to reroll a hardier character, but this is already my second re-roll and I'm am already sick of Korthos and the Harbor and can't imagine facing those quests again anytime soon. I know that the real solution to this is just to stick with it, but after a very frustrating evening, I felt the need to vent. Thank you.

Durion
11-15-2009, 12:30 AM
I do believe the new players are starting to see why the vets hate grouping with, well, the new players. The bad part of running a level 5 is that your stuck to run with the people that can't play and can't level past 5. You're in a rut right now, don't let the Noobs run you off. As for your guild, it sounds like you need to drop them. If they aren't running as a guild, why be a member? There's no reason to stay if there's no benefit to the group as a whole. Drop them, do what you dread right now and keep pugging. Eventually you'll find a group that fits what you're looking for. For some reason I'm thinking you joined the guild that was "looking for members" by spamming general chat. Bad choice. If the guild wants just any joe blow, its probabley because players that have knowledge of said guild won't join. Whats the best way around that? Spam general chat so you can boast that you have 100+ members. That don't work together as a guild. Hope that you won't let them run you off if you enjoy the game. Out level them and leave them behind on Korthos or in the Harbor. Hopefully for the most part they won't be able to find their way out. Good luck.

Irinis
11-15-2009, 12:36 AM
Sorcs are hard, I just rolled one but at least with Drow I'm doing a little better on starting stats. Are you using diplomacy a lot? I know it's a dumb question but I've noticed that can really help squishier characters survive. That and waiting for the tanks to grab aggro before sending out a ranged spell that grabs aggro before the tanks can get there. ;)

Sarlona? Please add Tarluga to your friends. My main's on Thelanis but send me a PM with the time and timezone you usually play and I'll see if I can do that.

Good luck getting past the uglypug stage!

Cedwin
11-15-2009, 12:39 AM
Wizards kind of suck at the lower levels, all you can really do is crowd control, you get a few damaging spells, but you don't have the spell points to really solo at that level. Just ride it out though, at higher levels the casters are the best solo'ers. Once you hit level 7 you'll get wall of fire as a wizard, that's your first really good AOE spell for soloing.

BLAKROC
11-15-2009, 12:47 AM
don't know what server your on But if your on khyber look me and and I will gladly group with ya and help you get over that hump.

Blak.

KillEveryone
11-15-2009, 03:56 AM
I re-rolled my cleric several times before I was happy with her. Part of it was trying out feats and races to see how they work, part of it was just being unhappy with my stats. I'm happy with her now and the direction I am taking.

I am on my 3rd or 4th re-roll of my bard. I just wasn't happy with the direction I had taken before. I am now happy.

I'll probably re-roll my fighter, wiz, sorc, ranger, monk, palidin, barb, and any multi-class because I probably won't be quite happy at first. I check out the builder several times and run numbers and feats and enhancements. I'll run the first one in the game to see how it plays and if I'm not happy, I will re-roll and check out the next until I find something that works for me.

You may want to post your build and ask for suggestions for a fix. I know you may not want to hear it but sometimes a re-roll is in order, espically if your character is low enough. You may want to spring for Vet status. If you haven't purchased 32 pt build to help with con and you want to earn the favor then you may be better rolling something that will be more survivable to 1750 favor.

I'm very tired of Korthos. I bought Vet status so I can skip Korthos. Korthos is a easy place to get favor for coinlords and you can almost find some group that is willing to run all Korthos on elite, usually someone will be able to open it. Even then, you can always come back when you have a few levels and solo elite for favor. Won't get xp but that isn't the reason you are there at a higher level.

I'm on Thelanis. I have grouped with all kinds of people, some good, some bad. I add the good to my friends list and the potentially good have made it also. I don't add people that just won't play smart.

If you are on Thelanis, I'm Divinerose Anarchy(my cleric) and Nannywarbuck Anarchy(my bard). I have rolled others too but I'm not playing them yet. Mostly name holders but I plan to run with them in the future. You will most likely see Nanny right now since Divine is kinda broke, she just has no social skill and no mind for money(low cha and haggle) :) Nanny feeds her wand habit and I'm trying to get her social skill and money management up to help feed that habit. Nanny will also vendor for my other alts.

I play with just about anyone. I tend to avoid people that spam gen chat, advice, and trade(this tab I hardly look at). If your character isn't high enough level though, I'll decline you unless you just want to get favor. You'll need to tell me you are just going for favor. I don't like to deny people their xp just because my character level is too high. If I am doing a favor run, I'll state it with the quest I'm LFMing.

I'm not the best but I can hold my own.

Come over to our corner of paradise and well group.

Halo_572
11-15-2009, 04:52 AM
a) Most public based group games suffer from poor organisation, that is a flaw in playing for what is mostly ever one session with people you have never met. You can find good groups, YOU just have to advertise the right way in the social panel. Create the parties you want, don;t just join anything and if you do either ask before you join what they are doing or leave if it isn't what you want.

Try - no rushing, (difficulty level) only no elites, playing for XP and favour. If these sorts of things don't work then you can always kick.

b) You have to learn the game to stop from dying. I have been playing 2 months and am on my 7th character. I play permadeath, so dying is a little more frustrating than just not being able to get anywhere and resurrecting, it means you have to seriously learn everything just to survive.

If you are a spell caster have a fighter/barb hireling; DON'T rush; DON'T do quests on hard or elite until you are a level ABOVE what is needed; DON'T steam in to hand to hand - stand back and use charm, etc.

My latest character is now a 4th level wizard who has still not done Korthos on elite and is only just working his way through normal on the harbour and that is ALL done on solo with hireling. You can be 5th level before you finish the 2nd level quests. Forget the xp penalties, it all adds up in the end.

c) 'Wizards kind of suck at the lower levels' - true and very false. Just because you can't in many cases kill in one hit is not a weakness. Charm a group and turn them against themselves, blind, web, sleep, they all give your hireling the opportunity to kill the enemy. You have to learn what to begin with look useless spells and actually can be very nasty if you have someone to put the boot in after you have cast it.

I can solo STK on my own APART from the boss. The mob killed me and that is where the weakness of soloing comes in.

After about level 4 QUESTS, not level, I would expect to need a party to get much further, simply because I cannot afford to die and would need their support. If they all died I would look to leave, I have no qualms about getting out to save my own skin, they can resurrect and go back in, I can't.

Halo_572
11-15-2009, 05:12 AM
I'm going to add, use items that don't seem much use that you get in Korthos and frees up spell slots:

Feather fall cloak - lets you fall at will and all items recharge at shrines

Lesser false life belt - adds 5 hp

Bracers of assistance - equip, cast, unequip but get the aid spell effect. You can get 4 of these by doing all the quests

Healing cloak - again 4, free emergency heals and recharges at shrines

Archivists pendant - 2 free emergency mana charges to get you out of trouble

Wands - most offensive wands are not much use i.e. magic missile. Wand of retreat, blur, invisibility, secret doors are all useful as they leave your spell slots for your more powerful attack spells.

Wand of flame - first weapon you get and useful as a low damage machine gun. Runs out quickly on higher levels, but it saves your mana

Blessed goggles - 4 of these give bless which can be used at the point you need a minute of it

Extend metafeat - On custom you can choose this instead of being lumbered with a damage increase feat. Very useful for doubling your defensive spell durations and save mana for attack spells and I always have shield and mage armour active

techwench
11-15-2009, 05:50 AM
Well, you're at the right level to group with us (levels 3-6). If you're on Sarlona and you're interested, hit up Isilmerel. We have a guild, but it's tiny (6 people)...we were just talking about finding a couple more people to run with last night when we got slaughtered in Delera's. :p

3 of us play and group regularly in the afternoon/evenings during the week and off and on through the weekends...the other three come and go sporadically. Occasionally, we'll try to pick up extra fighters and/or clerics for loot runs (i.e. irestone), but about 85% of the time, we're static grouping it.

We're all still pretty new, so we don't zerg (unless we're running through korthos farming favor on new alts). We do have some of the low level adventure packs (and when we have points, we try help each other out w/guest passes for those without access to those packs), but we don't have them all.

Anyway, we're not vets and we do die, but we try to help eachother out and those of us who have beefier alts do try to protect the squishies (just try not to cast offensive spells *cough*mybrother*cough* before the fighters have a chance to hit first). ;)

mechgouki
11-15-2009, 06:45 AM
Killeveryone, what do you think of this idea of rerolling? Create the character first. Then pack up your important stuff, sell the rest, then send the item and money over to your new character. Is this widely used?

Nyvn
11-15-2009, 06:54 AM
You can always make your own groups, that will help with some of it. Another thing to do is to start putting people you enjoy grouping with on your friends list. If they're on try to get them in your groups.

Enir
11-15-2009, 07:03 AM
Killeveryone, what do you think of this idea of rerolling? Create the character first. Then pack up your important stuff, sell the rest, then send the item and money over to your new character. Is this widely used?

I do this all time! I run a good solo character (paladin, 'battle' cleric or Favored Soul) to get plat and loot. Then I make the more challenging characters (casters, rogue, range-specked ranger).
When first learning the game, go with survival.
Oh, and dump that worthless guild, OP.

Reverand
11-15-2009, 07:24 AM
Hello, i just thought i would extend the hand of friendship on Thelanis. Looks like a few other servers are covered.

Pugs lately have been rough. Even for us veterans. I dread looking for them. 90% of my game play is in fully guild member groups. We never have a huge issue. We talk we laugh we quest, and in the rare occasion we bite off more then we can chew... we laugh harder.

Finding a good supportive guild in this game has become VERY important, in my opinion. It makes the difference from feeling like your treading water to zipping down a waterfall on a jetski.

If you are on Thelanis, look in the Thelanis Guild forums, there is ahuge list of guilds, philosophies, and playstyles.

cupajoe
11-15-2009, 07:29 AM
Sorcs are hard, I just rolled one but at least with Drow I'm doing a little better on starting stats. Are you using diplomacy a lot? I know it's a dumb question but I've noticed that can really help squishier characters survive. That and waiting for the tanks to grab aggro before sending out a ranged spell that grabs aggro before the tanks can get there. ;)

Sarlona? Please add Tarluga to your friends. My main's on Thelanis but send me a PM with the time and timezone you usually play and I'll see if I can do that.

Good luck getting past the uglypug stage!

Ok so uglypugly is really fun to say but it just begs to be shortened to pugly! I recommend we as a community adopt pugly as a the shortened form of uglypugly, which will henceforth mean a really bad or ugly pug.

Pugley Usage: It was pugly. Last night I had to drop from a group cause it was pugly. This is a pugly group I think I am gonna drop. Oh god not another pugly group.

Angelus_dead
11-15-2009, 07:31 AM
I would like to group more, but I'm starting to think that the 'wonderful' group experience that I've seen people describe on here is a myth. Almost every group I've joined is not cohesive, unwilling to listen and/or share info, and all too willing to leave me to die.
Best #1 way to improve your group quality:
Learn that groups don't have to be 6 people. They can be 2 or 3.

sephiroth1084
11-15-2009, 07:44 AM
What server are you on? If you're on Khyber, look me up on any of my characters (I think they're all in my sig, but I'll list them at the end of my post just in case)--I've a few in the level 5-7 range, and I'd have no problem running some content with you and showing you around.

Also, if your guild isn't doing it for you, join a different one. The point of a guild, as I see it, is to have a reliable forum at your disposal of fellow gamers who are ready, able and willing to answer your questions and run some quests with you. Anything beyond that is just gravy.

A few tips on staying alive as a lowbie wiz:
-Try to acquire (whether via the AH or vendors) buff wands to keep yourself protected and to let you spend your SP on more important things. Wands like Bear's Endurance (and any of the +4 stat buffs, as they WILL be useful in one respect or another, except Cha), Blur, Resist Energy, Stoneskin (not sure if its usable at level 5), Jump (clickies, potions, don't recall that I've ever seen a wand), Shield (blocks magic missiles), Displacement (on scrolls...painfully short duration, but very handy in a rough spot)...

-Keep yourself buffed with defensive spells and spells that improve your mobility (Expeditious Retreat, Haste, Jump, Blur, Displacement, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, Stoneskin, Rage), as these will keep you alive better than anything else.

-Try to stay away from monsters, keep hardier (or more foolish) party members between yourself and the monsters. If you grab aggro somehow, assess the situation; if you can take it out yourself, do so (whether by killing it, or incapacitating/immobilizing it), if your party is ready and able to take the crittur down, run it to them, stand still and block, otherwise, try to kite it about until they're ready.

-Do everything you can to boost your HP. Con items, False Life items(and Improved and Greater versions), the Rage spell (or potions), a wand of False Life (different than item).

-Keep on a Fortification item (Light, Medium then Heavy as becomes available) to reduce the likelihood of getting hit with a crit.


Aside from the above, yeah, grouping in the level range can be a chore sometimes, and the influx of new players has made it that much more difficult. It gets a bit better as the crowd begins to thin out.

My characters on Khyber are: Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumgaard, Ferrumblood, Ferrumshot, Ferrumschtik and Bruucelee. Not all are in your level range, but if you're on and need a hand, send me a tell, and if I'm not involved in something really time consuming, I'll come join you as soon as I;m able on someone in your range.

Good luck, and enjoy!

vVAnjilaVv
11-15-2009, 07:51 AM
Not at all that I am saying this is all a wiz is good for, but ur new and ur lower level, ur best bet to be welcomed into more groups is being a buff and haste bot at this point.

If u did not make ur wiz hardy stay away from the front line.

I'll be 100% honest with u here, I can't stand a wiz/sorc that can't take a hit and goes around hitting stuff with damage spells before the melees have the aggro. Most of the times I won't even pick up thier stones.

d4 hp per level should obviously tell u right off the bat, that unless u specifically made ur wiz to do melee battle or to take a lot of hits, u have no business being in the front line or getting aggro before other people. People are going to continue to let u die and not care if this is how u are playing. I'm not saying this is how u play, just making a reference.

That being said, u have haste, blur and displacement at ur disposal. Those three spells alone will get many groups through tough battles.....I know u probably wanna cast ur offensive spells, but the fact is, at level 5, it is simply not ur time to shine as a caster.
Stick with it, u'll make it if u do. May take a while, but until u get past level 10, u are approaching what we in DDO like to refer to as "The Dead Zone".

For now go back and scrape up all the xp that u can from slayers and doing quests on settings u can handle if u need to solo to progress. Keep an eye on the LFM and look for groups that look appealing. And most importantly, stay back and assist, a succesful arcane is not out there trying to lead the kill count, pure arcanes that do that end up blowing through thier mana too fast and usually have no kind of physical combat skills.

Sorry for answering ur rant with a rant....lol.

Aumvaar
11-15-2009, 07:52 AM
As for your guild, it sounds like you need to drop them. If they aren't running as a guild, why be a member?

Aside from all the nice people on various servers offering grouping help .... this one line is the best bit of advice in the thread.

vVAnjilaVv
11-15-2009, 08:05 AM
What server are you on? If you're on Khyber, look me up on any of my characters (I think they're all in my sig, but I'll list them at the end of my post just in case)--I've a few in the level 5-7 range, and I'd have no problem running some content with you and showing you around.

Also, if your guild isn't doing it for you, join a different one. The point of a guild, as I see it, is to have a reliable forum at your disposal of fellow gamers who are ready, able and willing to answer your questions and run some quests with you. Anything beyond that is just gravy.

A few tips on staying alive as a lowbie wiz:
-Try to acquire (whether via the AH or vendors) buff wands to keep yourself protected and to let you spend your SP on more important things. Wands like Bear's Endurance (and any of the +4 stat buffs, as they WILL be useful in one respect or another, except Cha), Blur, Resist Energy, Stoneskin (not sure if its usable at level 5), Jump (clickies, potions, don't recall that I've ever seen a wand), Shield (blocks magic missiles), Displacement (on scrolls...painfully short duration, but very handy in a rough spot)...

-Keep yourself buffed with defensive spells and spells that improve your mobility (Expeditious Retreat, Haste, Jump, Blur, Displacement, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, Stoneskin, Rage), as these will keep you alive better than anything else.

-Try to stay away from monsters, keep hardier (or more foolish) party members between yourself and the monsters. If you grab aggro somehow, assess the situation; if you can take it out yourself, do so (whether by killing it, or incapacitating/immobilizing it), if your party is ready and able to take the crittur down, run it to them, stand still and block, otherwise, try to kite it about until they're ready.

-Do everything you can to boost your HP. Con items, False Life items(and Improved and Greater versions), the Rage spell (or potions), a wand of False Life (different than item).

-Keep on a Fortification item (Light, Medium then Heavy as becomes available) to reduce the likelihood of getting hit with a crit.


Aside from the above, yeah, grouping in the level range can be a chore sometimes, and the influx of new players has made it that much more difficult. It gets a bit better as the crowd begins to thin out.

My characters on Khyber are: Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumgaard, Ferrumblood, Ferrumshot, Ferrumschtik and Bruucelee. Not all are in your level range, but if you're on and need a hand, send me a tell, and if I'm not involved in something really time consuming, I'll come join you as soon as I;m able on someone in your range.

Good luck, and enjoy!

Very solid advice here, definately take it.

A couple more tips for yah, pick up thos collectibles and turn them in, u get some nice buffing and damage wands for them.

Run harbor quests on solo or normal for the end rewards and make sure u have ur gamplay selected to end reward based on class....it should be on that setting by default. U will get a lot of buff wands from these as end rewards. U will also get invisibility wands, speaking of which have u been working on being a shadow mage at all, invisibility is a 2nd level spell and will keep u out of danger a lot. They also sell scrolls of invisibility in the marketplace.

Go back and run the cannith crystal on solo a few times and get some more bracers of assistance.

SuperStabber
11-15-2009, 08:07 AM
Yes, one solution is to reroll a hardier character, but this is already my second re-roll and I'm am already sick of Korthos and the Harbor and can't imagine facing those quests again anytime soon. I know that the real solution to this is just to stick with it, but after a very frustrating evening, I felt the need to vent. Thank you.

Veteran status was well worth it for me, I couldn't face the prospect of having to run Korthos for the 3rd time and the grind from lvl 1 to 4 is absolute torture. As for soloing, I hear it's opposite for rogues, fun and easy during the early levels but near impossible later in the game. What kind of gear are you running with? For me, I spend a lot of time in the AH and a good assortment of equipment can really even the odds especially when taking down bosses or just general survivability. I guess for you spellcasters you'd concentrate on aquiring +mana items, for my rogue it's all about the HP and AC so I'd get my hands on whatever clicky items would provide those boosts.

vVAnjilaVv
11-15-2009, 08:11 AM
Aside from all the nice people on various servers offering grouping help .... this one line is the best bit of advice in the thread.

This is so true....there are so many guilds in the MMO world not just DDO that think because they band with a group of people things will be easier, then u find out a few days later ur in a completely dysfunctional guild.

Trust me, u do not need a guild to be succesful here, in fact this game more than others I have played is one where being in a guild is not really neccesary. All u really need is to be a good player and for people to know it.

In fact I think I have had more problems with cetain guild names over my head than when I just choose to reamin guildless.

Ingo
11-15-2009, 08:14 AM
Even then, you can always come back when you have a few levels and solo elite for favor. Won't get xp but that isn't the reason you are there at a higher level.


Actually, and nicely enough, you can still get some XP at higher level.

When I restarted DDO after having been away from it for 3 years, I took my old Paladin 9 (or was he 8, I forget exactly) to Korthos and blasted through Misery's Peak solo on Hard and Elite for favor. Got a little over 1k XP from each run due to the no reentry & first time bonuses. Made the two runs a little more worthwhile to me.

Zenako
11-15-2009, 08:15 AM
Playing solo as a wizard requires that you use appropriate spells for the job. It can be done and is actually not that hard, ONCE you figure out certain things.

- you cannot afford to try and kill things using spell points...just won't work
- you CAN afford to use spell points to have certain mobs kill each other (CHARM) instead of you. Now this only works on humanoids with Charm Person at low levels.
- you cannot afford to enter melee without the right preperations.
SUCH as: Use the Aid Clickie Bracer from the Canith Crystal quest, run it a few times and get multiple bracers. Also get both of the Axe and Spear block bracers too, and switch to one right after you get the Aid Spell on you. The DR3/certain attacks is Very useful.
- use Blur if you are fighting. Use a weapon you are proficient with (quarter staff is fine) At low levels the non-proficiency penalty to hit (-4) is too big to ignore for a wizard. Use Stat Buff Spells like Bulls STR so you hit more often and harder.
- USe spells like Hypnotism to stop a pack of mobs in their steps and then just beat on them one by one, leaving the rest mesmerized.
- Learn when you can just Hypnotism and move on. In many quests you do not have to kill everything at all to "beat the quest".
- Use INVISIBILITY and your sneak button to get past tons of mobs without them every being alerted.
- Use Monster Summons spells to give you a powerful and cheap ally in most fights. The Celestial Dog has a TON more Hit POints than you do, fights pretty well and can spot enemies with ease. Tends to get aggro, so when you go to help you can also get a +2 to hit from flanking. If you also have the Insight Goggles for another +1 to hit that helps too.
- some spells are targeted and you can end up missing with them with poor reaction times (like Niacs Ray for example) and a missed spell is wasted Spell points.
- In a quest with a shrine, be sure to clear to it, and if you have spell points left, go past it and clear more until you are almost out of spell points. Return and use the shrine, and then continue.
- Always use clickies if you have them instead of spell points.
- Always carry a range of weapons you can use that will avoid DR issues (blunt, edged or piercing). You can use a crossbow, get a heavy one and carry it and some normal bolts. There are times you can just awaken some mobs and then climb to a ledge or soemthing and just plink away until you kill them. It will take a little while, but works quite safely.

You are about to reach the spell level where casters begin to become semi rulers of the universe. At level 7 a wizard can start casting Wall of Fire and it is hard to overstate how powerful damage over time spells are in this game. While that semi good melee is owning low level content, they soon will in all likelihood become dependant upon the lifelines, buffs and spells of casters and the IV pumps of clerics babysitting those melees if their tactics and attitudes do not mature with them as the game becomes harder and more challenging.

A good part of what you are seeing is that ANYONE can push almost ANY character thru the lower level quests, especially when solo with EASE. The game has introduced a number of mechanics to make that very very easy to do now. When you start grouping, the quests are actually going to get harder in that the monsters will be harder to kill with more people in the party. IF everyone can pull their weight and work together even the harder monsters should fall easily. Compound this effect with the poor playstyles that work despite their flaws in the intro content, it is not at all surprising that full low/midlevel groups can struggle.

Hope some of that helped. One has to realize that a Wizard needs to use their strong points to beat a quest, not pretend they are a Barbarian or Paladin. Bards and Rogues face similar issues, but they too can progress when they use their skills and abilities in effective manner and play.

DANTEIL
11-15-2009, 10:20 AM
So when I posted my rant/whine last night it really was just to vent -- I honestly didn't expect any real responses other than 'suck it up, noob.'

But wow, was I wrong. I just want to thank all for the incredibly helpful thoughtful replies. Truly, there is some great stuff there. I need to go back through them and consider them more carefully, but first, just real quick, I can probably admit that I bring some of the pain on myself -- i.e., too quick to turn to damage spells and not making effective use of some of my gear (e.g., I have those bracers of assistance, but forget about them most of the time). I have tried to use strategery when in groups, but in my limited experience, by the time I figure out what clicky to use or non-melee spell to cast, the group is already going on to the next thing. So I often just choose to burn something just to feel like I'm contributing :) and obviously that's not always the best thing in that it can lead to aggro/death (repeatedly). But I've learned the hard way that there is nothing more boring that being whiplashed around an area by someone carrying your soul stone when all you can do is watch the action from your dim haze, and would like to avoid that experience in the future. Thus, I will do my best to consider the info here as much as possible. My character is Danilor on Sarlona, by the way -- thanks to those who offered to group!

DoctorWhofan
11-15-2009, 10:55 AM
Too bad not on THelanis!

you warned us it was a rant, and a rather intellignet one at that. Trust us, we feel your pain. PuGs at your level are filled with alot of stupid people who joined when you did...the game's free so anyone can and will play it....but feel free to cry about a bad PuG on our shoulders. We KNOW the pain!

One word of advice...leave that guild. PuGging is better than people not willing to help...even the PuGging at that level.

incendia
11-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Sarlona? Aw.

I was going to offer to group if you were on Argonessen, even though I'm terribly new myself.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't feel obliged to be in a guild if they're not actually doing anything, or if they're being unresponsive. There are good PUGs out there, I swear, because I got into my guild via one.

Chimaira
11-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Ok I just gotta ask this, I'm just itching to know.

How much constitution does your wizard have?

Irinis
11-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Hmm, apparently initial aggro has changed a bit since the last update. Max your diplomacy skill and use it, though that doesn't work on spiders and such it should help for humanoids.

KillEveryone
11-15-2009, 11:45 AM
Killeveryone, what do you think of this idea of rerolling? Create the character first. Then pack up your important stuff, sell the rest, then send the item and money over to your new character. Is this widely used?

Totally.

I have every time I reroll.

At first I didn't because I didn't know I could mail stuff to myself, then someone mentioned that and I mail pp to myself all the time.

I now have a shared bank to cut the cost of transfering stuff.

Precog
11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Actually just buy Drow and veteran character I also took the tomes. I have a level 4 drow bard that wears plus 3 plate,shield and wields a +3 short sword. He has all bard skills maxed except I think tumbling. I even have hide and sneak which I find worthless even for soloing, except maybe to let my pet get a head start before I charge in. Basically I cast my 3 buffs which are blur, heroism, and courage, and a pet I also run with exped-whatever retreat. I have no offensive spells which is good because I have 35% spell failure since I put my points into having 20 cha, 18 int and 10 con. Right now I have 44 hps which is ok because my armor is 29 unbuffed. Even though I started with 8 str and 10 dex with all the buffs I dont miss much and I seem to crit often. Of course at this point I have like 3 +1 items and the starter stuff as well. I can solo korthos at elite most of the time and have only died once. I usually don't even need healing potions even though I don't have cure light wounds trained. I have and will have in the end game, massive spell points because my cha. I will have massive skills because my int is so high. The only thing I am not training thats bard is bluff and tumble. My buffed haggle is 17 already. Like I said I dont need to bluff or hide. I don't have the speed penalty associated with sneaking. I just wade in and kill stuff. Drow spell resistance is really good. I don't get paralyzed, slowed, commanded etc, like my dwarf fighter. Thus my Drow bard is actually tankier than my Dwarf fighter despite having 80 less hps. You have 6 spell levels in bard so the buffs get even buffier, the pets get even more cool. I will have like 670 spell points at level 16 despite taking no feats or enhancements for spell points. I don't think I will even try for a special bard path since I am going to have good skill levels without them and you have to waste enhancements on skill levels to get them. I dont know, spend the 38 bucks get drow, veteran, shared storage, tomes for everything, make a fighter get plus 3 plate, shield, shortsword. get his moss cloak as you will have enough spell points for now with this build. I have dropped fascinate from my short list as it takes a long time to build. I think its for casty bards with alot of time on their hands. Instead I will work up a decent aura of courage using enhancements. That alone with probably make me popular with groups in I need one. Heh I can just stand there and boost there ac and hit by 4. Wish there was a drag me around command so I could take a nap when raiding in a group. I don't know if anybody ever tried this. let me know if it has a name. I don't see too many bard builds around

Precog
11-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I am going to train the wand enhancements so if offensive spells are really the way to go I guess I will buy wands.

KillEveryone
11-15-2009, 08:26 PM
I am going to train the wand enhancements so if offensive spells are really the way to go I guess I will buy wands.

One of my bards had a 10 con starting. I was trying some stuff so I needed a different ability to be higher. Skills are nice but you would probably have been better served with the ponts in something else.

I thought she was too squishy. Had to use too many feats to do what I was looking at. I tried the diplomacy thing but it just wasn't for me. You really need a meat shield for that to work and they need to go in first and get the agro. When I started swinging on the critters, I ended up with agro, I think I was hitting a higher dps, and hitting diplo was becomming a bit of a challange since you had to wait for the cool down before hitting it again. I ended up with aggro, couldn't get rid of it, and was just too squishy for it.

I rerolled.

I now have a human 32 pt bard. 12/8/16/10/8/18 starting stats. The 10 in int is just for a few extra skill points so I can get what I want maxed, I'm not trying to add to very many. The extra con will help. I've checked things with the planner and I'll be taking toughness feat with enhancements. The skills I have put stuff into is jump, perform, UMD, balance, haggle, and I also put stuff in tumble. Anything left goes in diplo just in case I do need it but I just don't rely on it. Since I try not to cast in combat I don't worry much about concentration.

Get a mithral shield. Your spell failure will be 5% with it but I'm not sure with the full plate. Mithral plate might reduce that penalty. Bards get no penalty with light armor from what I understand. Occasionally you will fail a spell with the shield but if you buff then you could always take off the armor that causes failure and put it back on afterward.

Since you bought a tome, you have some investment into it. I understand. I did that with my squishy bard to try an alieviate it. Didn't help.

I don't know much about false life items and con items. It could be a while before your bard loots good items and becomes less squishy. Toughness feat and enhancements may help things but if you have your feats planned out then I'm not sure what else to suggest.

I have heard that wands are not very good for offensive spells, mostly because the damage done by them seems to just tickle the critters, but I think it may depend upon the spells.

I have used divine might and soundburst with a wand on my cleric. Didn't care for those wands, espically since I can cast much better and know what kind of damage those spells will deliver with the right gear and enhancements. I just couldn't handle seeing that kind of difference and it ran afowl of my OCD. I bought them just in case I needed something in a pinch or if something got on a ledge. I don't care much for crossbows but the wand didn't seem to do much more than the crossbow.

Web however I think is a good wand but you'll need to get your UMD up to use it without penalty. It can snare the critters fairly well and it isn't something that goes for damage. Charm person is good too since you can charm something and it will fight for you for the spell duration.

Basically from my perspective on wands, damage spells haven't been very fruitful, but snare and charm wands will work fairly well. Once you snare something or get the critters to kill off enough of their buddies, you can wack them better.

Precog
11-15-2009, 09:46 PM
I should add that in the stormreach sewers on hard my 44 hp drow bard died at about the same rate as my 130 point 32 build dwarf fighter. both of them died because I was too lazy to use a health potion for either of them. I noticed that my dwarf was getting spelled all the time and my drow not at all. I would say they both did the same amount of damage despite my dwarf having a dwarven axe and my drow having a short sword. I would say thats because my drow buffed is about +9 to hit and damage. His I am pretty sure his ac buffed is 33 with 20% miss chance. I had to use my feats to get heavy armor. I have 44 hps and 230 sps. I hit a button to remove the shield cast blur heroism expeditious retreat and summon hound every 4 minutes with a 35% spell failure rate. I have never run out of sp yet however. I suppose in groups I suppose I could use shurikens. I hadn't though about training that but that could give me more of a duel role. I did plan it out taking toughness later. at some point I will take the expend spell feat so my buffs will last 8 minutes saving sp. What kills me is the cost of repairing as it averages 100 pp a time. once my short sword cost 160 pp. I wonder if paladin has repair skill? It almost would be worth duel classing to paladin to get that. That would be later as I only have 8 wis at the moment. hmm actually going to check that out now

asphodeli
11-16-2009, 06:49 AM
I should add that in the stormreach sewers on hard my 44 hp drow bard died at about the same rate as my 130 point 32 build dwarf fighter. both of them died because I was too lazy to use a health potion for either of them. I noticed that my dwarf was getting spelled all the time and my drow not at all. I would say they both did the same amount of damage despite my dwarf having a dwarven axe and my drow having a short sword. I would say thats because my drow buffed is about +9 to hit and damage. His I am pretty sure his ac buffed is 33 with 20% miss chance. I had to use my feats to get heavy armor. I have 44 hps and 230 sps. I hit a button to remove the shield cast blur heroism expeditious retreat and summon hound every 4 minutes with a 35% spell failure rate. I have never run out of sp yet however. I suppose in groups I suppose I could use shurikens. I hadn't though about training that but that could give me more of a duel role. I did plan it out taking toughness later. at some point I will take the expend spell feat so my buffs will last 8 minutes saving sp. What kills me is the cost of repairing as it averages 100 pp a time. once my short sword cost 160 pp. I wonder if paladin has repair skill? It almost would be worth duel classing to paladin to get that. That would be later as I only have 8 wis at the moment. hmm actually going to check that out now

A Paladin's favored skill is not Repair, you will have a penalty to increase that. Also, repair skill does not help in preventing damage to items, nor can characters repair items themselves. The only thing related to preventing damage to items is the enhancements that reduce damage to items, which are not for Paladins

tihocan
11-16-2009, 08:02 AM
To OP (don't have time to read all thread, sorry):
- suck it up, noob (well ok, I read your second post :p)
- if you're not set on playing a wizard, try a more solo-able character. Like a cleric with decent melee ability (warpriest-like). You may have more fun. And people in groups don't run away that much from the clerics...
- for a wizard, I hope you didn't start with too low Constitution. It's a mistake many new players would do when customizing their build. Also, being a warforged can be very helpful, for the self repairs.
- expect having a hard time soloing on your wizard in L5-6 quests, until you reach L7 and get wall of fire
- use summons
- I think most low level groups do suck, if only because good players prefer not to group at these levels. But yes, you can have great grouping experience as well, probably more at higher levels. Don't give up yet :)
- if your current guild isn't a fit, find another one

sephiroth1084
11-16-2009, 08:02 AM
So when I posted my rant/whine last night it really was just to vent -- I honestly didn't expect any real responses other than 'suck it up, noob.'

But wow, was I wrong. I just want to thank all for the incredibly helpful thoughtful replies. Truly, there is some great stuff there. I need to go back through them and consider them more carefully, but first, just real quick, I can probably admit that I bring some of the pain on myself -- i.e., too quick to turn to damage spells and not making effective use of some of my gear (e.g., I have those bracers of assistance, but forget about them most of the time). I have tried to use strategery when in groups, but in my limited experience, by the time I figure out what clicky to use or non-melee spell to cast, the group is already going on to the next thing. So I often just choose to burn something just to feel like I'm contributing :) and obviously that's not always the best thing in that it can lead to aggro/death (repeatedly). But I've learned the hard way that there is nothing more boring that being whiplashed around an area by someone carrying your soul stone when all you can do is watch the action from your dim haze, and would like to avoid that experience in the future. Thus, I will do my best to consider the info here as much as possible. My character is Danilor on Sarlona, by the way -- thanks to those who offered to group!

Yeah, spell selection is really going to be key. Use Charm or Suggestion on one member in a group of monsters to get things started, use Web along with non-fire spells to handle groups of monsters. Let the hardier members of your group get aggro and start softening a few targets up, then wipe out the weakened monsters with an area spell, or finish it off (if its tough) with a targeted spell.

My personal feeling is that if it takes more than 2 castings to take down a monster, its probably not worth bothering, as you're just going to get a lot of aggro for your SP expenditure. If you have the time, Melf' Acid arrow is very effective for the mana it requires.It's really good when soloing (toss a Melf's on a nasty monster, or 2, then toss up Invisibility via a scroll, wand or pot, and run behind something...the monsters will follow, but won't know where you are well enough to be a real threat while they melt).

Things will get much easier when you hit level 7 and gain Wall of Fire, though, as it is the best damage for your mana spell in the game against non-fire immune targets. Just make sure you use the spell well--don't through multiple down if you don't need to, stay in your firewall, either shield-blocking (rarely useful), or by jumping back and forth along the length of your firewall (make sure you have Jump up, and if melees are trying to hit the thing, stop jumping), or by running a tight oblong loop around your FW, which keeps the monsters inside the wall while chasing you.

Generally speaking, though, until you get FW, you shouldn't be nuking much, as you just don't have the mana for it to be very effective for long, and don't have the defenses to handle the aggro you'll be receiving from monsters you hit but don't kill. Even after getting FW, you probably won't have enough SP to be a major impact on every fight, but that will get better as you continue to level.