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Jay203
11-13-2009, 01:32 AM
really now, as of now, the vets are telling new players not to waste time with spot since they memorize the locations of the trap by heart
most people also don't care much for mobs that sneak either

so i propse, for future dungeons, multi-paths in dungeons which always only have 1 path that is safe to pass. the others will trigger ambush and end up wasting party resources
this, of course, needs to be planned out carefully so no one can just ddoor out of there and choose another path. make it so that once the party has chosen the path, they must proceed with that path (as other paths are blocked off)
now, the path that is safe must be randomly chosen among the available choices. character with high spot will be alerted of the ambush before going too far.


then there's always the whole high spot to find hidden treasures ;)
implement random "spots" in dungeons that will show up kind of like secret doors but will only be found with high spot, true seeing will NOT show such hidden spot

i don't know... just want spot to actually be more useful, rather than pitiful :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Uska
11-13-2009, 01:37 AM
uMM I find spot very useful I can see foes sooner, so I snipe with my ranger get the jump them earlier with my monk, its all good.

Bosco
11-13-2009, 01:49 AM
really now, as of now, the vets are telling new players not to waste time with spot since they memorize the locations of the trap by heart
most people also don't care much for mobs that sneak either

so i propse, for future dungeons, multi-paths in dungeons which always only have 1 path that is safe to pass. the others will trigger ambush and end up wasting party resources
this, of course, needs to be planned out carefully so no one can just ddoor out of there and choose another path. make it so that once the party has chosen the path, they must proceed with that path (as other paths are blocked off)
now, the path that is safe must be randomly chosen among the available choices. character with high spot will be alerted of the ambush before going too far.


then there's always the whole high spot to find hidden treasures ;)
implement random "spots" in dungeons that will show up kind of like secret doors but will only be found with high spot, true seeing will NOT show such hidden spot

i don't know... just want spot to actually be more useful, rather than pitiful :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Spot is really only useful to classes that have that as a skill. Otherwise it just doesn't get high enough to really become useful. But to describe it as useless only shows that you have never had a character with a high spot. With classes like monk rangers and rogues it is very useful in spotting invisible mobs.

excess
11-13-2009, 01:56 AM
Greatest DPS ability ever - getting 2 hits before anyone else while levelling on my barb? Dead mob!

Jay203
11-13-2009, 01:57 AM
Spot is really only useful to classes that have that as a skill. Otherwise it just doesn't get high enough to really become useful. But to describe it as useless only shows that you have never had a character with a high spot. With classes like monk rangers and rogues it is very useful in spotting invisible mobs.

oh, believe me, i know the uses for spot, it's the lack of appreciation for spot coming from others that got me to make this thread :D:D:D:D

Lithic
11-13-2009, 02:05 AM
Spot is very usefull to a rogue. Even someone whos played a rogue for over 3 years forgets the traps or their box locations (I know I still rely on spot). Especially considering some of the rarer quests, as well as the "run through the traps, ignore the boxes" mentality of many zerg groups heh.

Rangers and bards should take spot as well as its a class skill and they have more than enough skill points anyway.

Other classes I wouldn't recommend spot. They would never get it high enough for traps, and tend to need their skill points for much more important skills like balance, UMD, concentration, or jump.

Jay203
11-13-2009, 02:23 AM
Spot is very usefull to a rogue. Even someone whos played a rogue for over 3 years forgets the traps or their box locations (I know I still rely on spot). Especially considering some of the rarer quests, as well as the "run through the traps, ignore the boxes" mentality of many zerg groups heh.

Rangers and bards should take spot as well as its a class skill and they have more than enough skill points anyway.

Other classes I wouldn't recommend spot. They would never get it high enough for traps, and tend to need their skill points for much more important skills like balance, UMD, concentration, or jump.

good, at least there are SOME ppl that still uses spot as a rogue :D:D:D:D

Maldavenous
11-13-2009, 02:35 AM
As a small addition that won't require new quests to be built directly to support Spot and Listen I'd suggest giving a group xp bonus of up to 10% for the number of Spot/Listen checks you make out of the possible total. This way these skills will have a bit more use.

Jay203
11-13-2009, 02:40 AM
As a small addition that won't require new quests to be built directly to support Spot and Listen I'd suggest giving a group xp bonus of up to 10% for the number of Spot/Listen checks you make out of the possible total. This way these skills will have a bit more use.

problem with that is in higher end content like the epic quests, exp is pointless
so why not have it be useful and allow parties with keen eyes to save a bit of their resources instead?

Maldavenous
11-13-2009, 02:46 AM
problem with that is in higher end content like the epic quests, exp is pointless
so why not have it be useful and allow parties with keen eyes to save a bit of their resources instead?

They can make new quests following your idea or any others that encourage spot and listen as well as many other less useful skills but this will take time and will best be added in new quests as opposed to going back an retrofitting old quests. This lends itself completely to having a use for the skill at max level but no real reason to have the skill on the way to max level. I suggest that as well as whatever high end quest driven solution they select they also have a system driven solution that will add a bonus to having these skills in almost any quest in the game for what I would imagine to be very little work.

That is why I said "a small addition" and not "instead of waht Jay said" ;)

Jay203
11-13-2009, 02:49 AM
They can make new quests following your idea or any others that encourage spot and listen as well as many other less useful skills but this will take time and will best be added in new quests as opposed to going back an retrofitting old quests. This lends itself completely to having a use for the skill at max level but no real reason to have the skill on the way to max level. I suggest that as well as whatever high end quest driven solution they select they also have a system driven solution that will add a bonus to having these skills in almost any quest in the game for what I would imagine to be very little work.

That is why I said "a small addition" and not "instead of waht Jay said" ;)

and i was only opposing the part of making it give bonus exp like doing traps :D:D:D
we don't need more exp, we need more options~

caution
11-13-2009, 03:52 AM
Sorry, that would be a horrible system to play with.

Even my suggestion to make Spot give people a bonus to trap saves/disable I believe is more realistic than what you are proposing (just reminds me of Prey, and we all know how much we hate that quest!).

Also look at this thread for a better discussion on Spot improvements..

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204315

Jay203
11-13-2009, 01:03 PM
/signed

I support this idea because Spot currently is the skill of noobs, and none of my rogues even bother wasting a point in that silly skill. At least that may make it useful again (outside of my other idea to provide a bonus to saves/disables for spotted traps).

ha, thx for pointing to that thread
you're one of the prime reason why i even posted this thread

besides, my first suggestion is just taking his idea a bit further
making spot able to detect ambushes or the like but make it so we can ACTUALLY AVOID the ambush rather than know it and still have to go through with it =_=

Impaqt
11-13-2009, 01:43 PM
You want to chance the way basic quests operate and have the devs spend 2-3 times as long to create content because some people give out bad advice?

Rogue builds get plenty of Skill Points. Theres no good reason to skip Spot as a skill. I max spot on every one of my characters that get it as a skill. Seeing mobs earlier than everyone else is just too good to pass up. So many times I watch melee run past all kinds of mobs only to have to turn around to come attack the mob I'm whacking on.

Thrudh
11-13-2009, 01:53 PM
really now, as of now, the vets are telling new players not to waste time with spot since they memorize the locations of the trap by heart
most people also don't care much for mobs that sneak either

The vets who tell new players that are being asses...

Training in spot is not a mistake or a waste... Maybe for the min/max uber who only run 20 well-known quests on the way to cap... but new players don't have traps memorized and will be trying a lot of the less-known quests... plus I HATED not being able to see the hobs in Tangleroot when I was first starting out.

Vets need to realize that their advice may not apply to new players... because the play-styles can be (and probably are) very different.

Zenako
11-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Well you NEED good spot skills to do anything stealthy or you will bump into HIDING mobs.

Was able to pretty easily go around the Devil Battlefield the other day getting all the explorers with my Elven Ranger/Rogue while sneaking between HIDING mobs, including a couple of rares. (This guy is often in the 50ish Spot range, so pretty much nothing stays hidden when I look that way...:D).

So very useful in new content as well.

What they could do is consider bringing it into play on some of the EPIC quests. Put various mobs into a hiding dormant status, that if you spot them, you can move to avoid those fights (and each fight does take some time and resources on EPIC). That might be cool in any quest where you have choices about pathing.

Depravity
11-13-2009, 02:13 PM
Speaking as someone with a stable full of stealth casters, I can say that spot works tolerably well even at half ranks. Really high spot is mostly a trap thing. For most stealth critters half ranks and a max spot item is sufficient.

Being able to spot hidden mobs and drop CC on them bbefore the party even knows they're there? Priceless.

MyersVandalay
11-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Rangers and bards should take spot as well as its a class skill and they have more than enough skill points anyway.


Actually bards get listen as a class skill, not spot.

Phidius
11-13-2009, 03:48 PM
I believe I've given similar advice before, but it wasn't done out of malice or an attempt to spread misinformation.

I would never call Spot a "waste", but if you're trying to squeeze every last skill point, it's possible to get away without maximum ranks in Spot.

1. Traps: Most traps in the game can be found by running through them. I can't think of any trap that prevents quest completion if you don't disable it before it triggers... if they're out there, though, you'll learn your lesson for the next time.

2. Hidden Foes: They'll find you.

3. Secret Doors: Plenty of spells/clickies/items will take care of this for you. Worst case scenario, just stop every 10 feet and search :D

I agree that some skills need to be more useful than they are, but Spot is already very useful... just not the MOST useful.

Dragavon
11-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Spot is really only useful to classes that have that as a skill. Otherwise it just doesn't get high enough to really become useful. But to describe it as useless only shows that you have never had a character with a high spot. With classes like monk rangers and rogues it is very useful in spotting invisible mobs.

Blah.

I appreciate even my fighters 25 spot (+15 from Tharne's, 11 ranks, -1wis).

Beeing able to see even a faint outline of stealthed mobs as opposed to nada is good when you are running forward.