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ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 05:26 AM
That's the first build, fully created by myself. I was aiming to create a rogue with high rogue skills, quite good in fight and able to use a bow. So, here it is:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Rowlas The Eagle-Eyed
Level 12 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 10 Rogue)
Hit Points: 144
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 13
Will: 2

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 12)
Strength 14 16
Dexterity 16 22
Constitution 10 10
Intelligence 16 16
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 12)
Balance 7 17
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 0 0
Diplomacy 3 13
Disable Device 7 18
Haggle 3 7
Heal -1 -1
Hide 7 21
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 13
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 7 21
Open Lock 7 21
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 18
Spot 3 14
Swim 2 10
Tumble 7 17
Use Magic Device 3 14

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV



I am not a mature player, so, it seems quite good to me, though I know, that some things can be improved. Would like to hear an opinion of experienced player.

tihocan
11-11-2009, 07:51 AM
Few things:
- would probably be a good idea to pick a rogue prestige enhancement line (assassin/acrobat/mechanic)
- plan it to 20
- 16 Int is too high with 28 pt build, drop it to 14, and bump Con to 14 (and on a 32 pt build I'd actually bump Str to 16 instead of Int)
- I don't see what stat you're incresing at each level, but it's Str, right?
- expect to buy (on AH or in store) a +1 Dex tome at L8 so you can pick Improved TWF at L9

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 08:45 AM
Few things:
- would probably be a good idea to pick a rogue prestige enhancement line (assassin/acrobat/mechanic)


Alright, I'll try it.


- 16 Int is too high with 28 pt build, drop it to 14, and bump Con to 14 (and on a 32 pt build I'd actually bump Str to 16 instead of Int)

With lower int, I'm afraid I won't be able to put enough points in rogue skills, like open lock, hide etc.


- I don't see what stat you're incresing at each level, but it's Str, right?

I'm increasing dexterity. 2 extra Strength points come from enhancements "Human Adaptability Strength I" and "Fighter Strength I"

WilliamBraveheart
11-11-2009, 08:57 AM
If it was me I would wait for till I got the 400 favor to unlock Drow to make a rogue.
however with that said,
If you are going for a dex build I would still lower int to 14 and raise con to 14 use skill points to max out search and disable.

tihocan
11-11-2009, 09:18 AM
With lower int, I'm afraid I won't be able to put enough points in rogue skills, like open lock, hide etc.
Don't be afraid, you'll be fine.


I'm increasing dexterity. 2 extra Strength points come from enhancements "Human Adaptability Strength I" and "Fighter Strength I"
Bad idea if you're going khopesh. Soon enough you'll find yourself having a lot of trouble hitting stuff (14 base Str is already low, so you can't afford to waste more Str points).
If you're going dex-based, dual wield rapiers instead of khopeshes, and pick weapon finesse.

Edit: hmm, I see you got finesse already, maybe you thought khopeshes were finesseable?

WilliamBraveheart
11-11-2009, 09:20 AM
go rapiers and shortswords drop kopesh

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Edit: hmm, I see you got finesse already, maybe you thought khopeshes were finesseable?

Yep, seems I've misunderstood something... So, weapon finesse doesn't apply to all weapons?

And if I'm taking rapiers and shortswords with weapon finesse, is there a sense of 14 strength or it can be lowered?

tihocan
11-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Yep, seems I've misunderstood something... So, weapon finesse doesn't apply to all weapons?
No, only those finesseable, i.e. all light weapons + the rapier.

PurdueDave
11-11-2009, 10:00 AM
The build is OK, just modified as in the previous posts.

My 2cp, sticking with khopeshes, would be drop INT down to 10, raise CON to 15 and STR to 15 and put every level up into STR. A +1 DEX tome will qualify you for the two-weapon fighting feats so there's no need to invest a valuable level up increase into DEX. If you're really scared and want an INT of 14, just drop STR and CON down 1 each and it won't be the end of the world.

edit - and I'd replace weapon finesse with power attack. You'll want it and it's something you can work in early with the low prereqs.

IMO, rogues = DPS. Traps are really secondary.

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Thank you, Dave, but no, I think I'll try dexterity build with higher rogue skills first. If it will be weak, I'll follow your advice =)
So, my question is still unanswered. What to do with Strength if I'm going to use rapiers and weapon finesse?
And btw, I'm still a bit confused about this feat. As I was told, it allows to use dexterity to determine hit chance, not the damage. The damage is still determined by strength. Is this correct?

PurdueDave
11-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Thank you, Dave, but no, I think I'll try dexterity build with higher rogue skills first. If it will be weak, I'll follow your advice =)
So, my question is still unanswered. What to do with Strength if I'm going to use rapiers and weapon finesse?
And btw, I'm still a bit confused about this feat. As I was told, it allows to use dexterity to determine hit chance, not the damage. The damage is still determined by strength. Is this correct?

That's correct. With weapon finesse, DEX for to-hit with light weapons and rapiers, otherwise still STR. STR for damage, always.

tihocan
11-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Thank you, Dave, but no, I think I'll try dexterity build with higher rogue skills first. If it will be weak, I'll follow your advice =)
So, my question is still unanswered. What to do with Strength if I'm going to use rapiers and weapon finesse?
And btw, I'm still a bit confused about this feat. As I was told, it allows to use dexterity to determine hit chance, not the damage. The damage is still determined by strength. Is this correct?
You are correct.
Note that I agree with PurdueDave since Str-based is overall more effective. Putting rogue skills first is a typical new player mistake with rogues (see e.g. here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=213448) the kind of problem you can get into on a Dex-based build).

If you're going rapier+finesse, keep Str at min. 12 so you can quality for power attack with just a +1 Str tome.

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 10:34 AM
Well, that's difficult.. =)) Alright, thank you for your help. Will spend some more time and then post what I'll get.

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Uhm... Was trying to rebuild, but got a problem - I can't take ITWF on level 9. I've achieved all the requirements, at least the ones, the planner names:
Dexterity 17 - I have 18
Two Weapon Fighting - have it
Base Attack Bonus +6 - I have BAB 7/7/12

Are there any hidden requirements?

tihocan
11-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Uhm... Was trying to rebuild, but got a problem - I can't take ITWF on level 9. I've achieved all the requirements, at least the ones, the planner names:
Dexterity 17 - I have 18
Two Weapon Fighting - have it
Base Attack Bonus +6 - I have BAB 7/7/12

Are there any hidden requirements?
Most likely your Dex requirement is not met, because it's only (base + tomes), enhancements do not count.

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Yes, you were rigth =)
Well, I decided to follow your advice, and try to create a DPS. So here's what I got for now


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 12 Neutral Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 10 Rogue)
Hit Points: 168
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 11
Will: 2

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 12)
Strength 15 20
Dexterity 16 19
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 12)
Balance 7 16
Bluff -1 1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 3 12
Disable Device 5 16
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 7 19
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 2 14
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 7 19
Open Lock 7 15
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 5 16
Spot 3 12
Swim 2 6
Tumble 7 16
Use Magic Device 3 13

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III

tihocan
11-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Yes, you were rigth =)
Well, I decided to follow your advice, and try to create a DPS. So here's what I got for now
Looks pretty good. In an ideal world you'd rather start at 15 Dex/16 Str, but as a new player you can't really rely on that +2 Dex tome... the good news is you can still do a reincarnation later to "fix" this sub-optimal stat allocation once you get your hands on that tome.

You may want to shuffle feats around a bit. Mostly, switch Khopesh and Power Attack, because PA at low level is not really useful, while you want to start khopeshing around early.

ZeXorG
11-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Looks pretty good. In an ideal world you'd rather start at 15 Dex/16 Str, but as a new player you can't really rely on that +2 Dex tome... the good news is you can still do a reincarnation later to "fix" this sub-optimal stat allocation once you get your hands on that tome.

You may want to shuffle feats around a bit. Mostly, switch Khopesh and Power Attack, because PA at low level is not really useful, while you want to start khopeshing around early.
Thank you for your help =)
Well, will I actually be able to get khopesh at that level? I got a paladin, level 5 (though, the very beginning of the level) and haven't met any khopesh yet. Maybe I was unlucky? =)

PurdueDave
11-11-2009, 07:30 PM
I like it. I smell me an assassin coming on.

Don't sweat the khopesh collection too much. Keep your eyes peeled and grab a good basic one of the vendor or AH on the cheap if you want. He'll be a killing maching in no time. Besides, if you get really good weapons you'll always be pulling aggro off some gimp ass meat shield. :D

tihocan
11-11-2009, 07:58 PM
Thank you for your help =)
Well, will I actually be able to get khopesh at that level? I got a paladin, level 5 (though, the very beginning of the level) and haven't met any khopesh yet. Maybe I was unlucky? =)
Well, right, for a new player it may not be possible to afford the AH khopeshes. I kinda forgot that ;)

ZeXorG
11-12-2009, 03:51 AM
Cool =) Thx guys. I've started to play him. Can't say anything yet, only lvl 2, but hope it will be really strong as you say)

tihocan
11-12-2009, 08:48 AM
Cool =) Thx guys. I've started to play him. Can't say anything yet, only lvl 2, but hope it will be really strong as you say)
Well, it's a rogue, don't expect too much out of it :D

ZeXorG
11-12-2009, 09:01 AM
Sure =) It's still mostly for fun. If I wanted a great fighter I would take... fighter?))