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VladdyD
11-09-2009, 02:36 PM
So I've decided to play a rogue! (yaay) :)
It is my first character, but I really am not worries about a learning curve. I'll get by.

But I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask you all on forums (after having done some research one my own).
I've also been messing around with some builds.

First off, is an acrobat (or quarterstaff wielding rogue) any good (without the use of a Monk second)? I've done my research and a lot of people were telling me to aim for Assassin...but the quarterstaff is so cool...at least I think so :p

My second question is that could I still do a sneak attack/stealth rogue with a staff?

And finally, possible starter stats I should aim for? I've been kinda messed because wiki suggests 14 Int, but everyone I've talked to says that is waaaaay high. Anyone got some opinions?

I'd really appreciate the help, and THANKS! to anyone that replies :)

Angelus_dead
11-09-2009, 06:02 PM
I've done my research and a lot of people were telling me to aim for Assassin...but the quarterstaff is so cool...at least I think so
Assassin is only a lot better at level 18, and you might not even get that far. Switching back and forth is easy.

If you feel like staff is "cool" somehow, then go for it, but be aware that when other rogues are going around with rapiers and shortswords there's a reason for it. At low levels you'd probably survive longer if you had a shield instead.


My second question is that could I still do a sneak attack/stealth rogue with a staff?
Stealth and sneak attacks are barely related to each other.
Staff has no relationship with stealth.
Staff has a negative relationship with sneak attack in that it prevents you from using TWF, which causes more sneak attacks in the same time.

Brennie
11-09-2009, 06:02 PM
So I've decided to play a rogue! (yaay) :)

Yaay!


First off, is an acrobat (or quarterstaff wielding rogue) any good (without the use of a Monk second)? I've done my research and a lot of people were telling me to aim for Assassin...but the quarterstaff is so cool...at least I think so :p

Acrobats are interesting. Acrobats require invetement in balance enhancements, and then give you an ability that makes balance ranks/enhancements useless. Acrobat requires Dex enhanancements, and further increases yoru dex, and then gives you abilities with a strength based two-handed weapon (IE the quarterstaff).

Generally, Acrobats are useful in combination with monk quarterstaff abilities, and as a "Flavor" class. Rogues essentially double their sneak attack damage by weilding two weapons, and often have high enough dex and low enough strength that Weapon Finesse is required for them to hit consistantly. Since Q-Staves cannot be finessed, are strength based, and cannot be dual weilded, no to mention their poor base damage and *horrible* crit range/multiplier, they are generally considered very very poor weapons for rogues.

Assassin, on the other hand, has steep requirements, but eventually gives major bonuses to dual-weilding rogues, turning them into whirling blades of death and destruction.


My second question is that could I still do a sneak attack/stealth rogue with a staff?

Stealth isn't relevant to weapon type. Any and all rogues and stealth well. You can also sneak attack with a quarterstaff.


And finally, possible starter stats I should aim for? I've been kinda messed because wiki suggests 14 Int, but everyone I've talked to says that is waaaaay high. Anyone got some opinions?

I'm not 100% on stats. It depends on your race. but for quarterstaff, you're likely going to want to sacrifice Dex (Since you don't need it for TWF) and boost Strength, while keeping a decent Con.

14 int is not too much on a rogue. 14 int gives you 10 skillpoints (hide, move silently, spot, search, disable device, open lock, tumble, balance, UMD, and then a skill of your choice), BUT most importantly, gives you a permenant +2 bonus to search and disable device.


I'd really appreciate the help, and THANKS! to anyone that replies :)

De Nada!

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 10:11 AM
YOU GUYS ARE SOO HELPFUL! Thanks a lot!!!

You both made super super points that got me thinking, so I thank you tons. I usually like to run builds (regardless of game) that are a bit different than the norm, but can still be effective.
I recognize that they may not be as good, but as long as their not horrible I may as well give 'em a try. Especially because they can do some solid damage with feats and enhancements (so I've learned from some research).

I'll definitely look into Assassin a bit more, because, as Angelus put it, people walk around dual wielding and using/suggesting it for a reason.

Thank you so much! I hope not to reroll a bunch, but if so, hey that's life.
I really appreciate you two (and everyone that's helped me in-game) that has taken the time to answer my, probably annoying, questions.

Just one P.S. "Flavor" class means just a fun thing to run, or what? :p

Kaldaka
11-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Make sure you get yourself some fox's cunning pots, heroism pots, spot/search/disable items, skill boost is your friend etc. (anything to up the rogue skills) so that you can actually do the 'rogue' thing that most PUGs will expect from you. Ask around for some +5 tools, I personally just vendor them anymore ...

It is rather disappointing to be in a quest where the rogue can't find the box or blows it up.

I'm not saying that being a trapmonkey is something you should do ... but if you aren't gonna be one and you're pugging, you will have it kinda rough ...

Ardkor
11-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Just one P.S. "Flavor" class means just a fun thing to run, or what? :p

A "flavor' class/build/etc means you are playing it for the theme or just for fun, you are not trying to milk every single point of optimal damage/AC/whatever out of it. "Flavor" or "fluff" is sometimes used as a derogatory term by players who consider anything less than 'optimal' to be a waste of time.

Most builds offered on these forums are 'optimized' for one aspect or another (DPS - damage per swing, etc). Some builds are so popular that they have nicknames (Exploiter, Monster,etc) and are considered 'standard choices' for players who want to maximize some aspect of their class/race. "Cookie cutter build" or "power gaming build" is sometimes used as a derogatory term by players who think that playing a popular, optimized build represents lazy 'min/max' play.

I have a dwarven 'vermin slayer' rogue/ranger I play - he is far from optimized, but he's built around a theme, and does pretty well. Can he compete with the 'optimal' rogue builds? Probably not, but I play him for the flavor, and I enjoy it.

On the other hand, I have a very nice warforged character who was built around the idea of using trips/stunning blows. I got the idea from Ghoste and Aranticus' advice, and he is as optimized as I can make him, He's just as much fun to play as my "flavor' build, too.

DDO has plenty of room for both types of players, which is a nice thing.

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Hmmm okay, well thanks a lot for the two other replies as well!
That definition was super Ardkor, thanks a lot ;D

I just can't really decide anymore which side I want to go. All the info has been both overwhelming and super insightful.

Guess it comes down to whether I want to optimize or have fun...hmmmm...

I know you guys can't tell me one over the other, since it's been promoted to play what you want, which is totally cool (and amazing), so I thank you for the info. I just really did not want to get into a char and realize he's going to stink and be useless.

Thanks so much for the replies!! :)

Ardkor
11-10-2009, 03:49 PM
Well, here are some general tips if you really want to play a quarterstaff type rogue.

If race isn't an issue for you, take Human - you get an extra feat, extra skill points and some nice racial benefits in your enhancements.

STR will affect how often you hit, and how much damage you do - you want to increase this every chance you get as you level up, and don't start with less than 14, 16 would be better. There are several feats you will want to look at to increase your combat ability, and they will all depend on your STR, if you are using a staff.

DEX is not as important as STR to you, but I'd go 12-14 in it.

CON is important, you wont have a lot of HP as a rogue, go for 12-14 here.

INT of 14 is very good, but you don't need more than that. I would take at least a 13 here (so you can take Combat Expertise as a feat later).

WIS, and CHA are not very important at all, with WIS being slightly more important than CHA, especially if you multiclass into Monk.

Look at feats like Two Handed Fighting, Stunning Blow, Combat Expertise (and Improved Trip, which needs CE as a pre-requisite). You will have to take certain things to meet the requirements for your prestige class, but beyond those you want to think abut how to improve your damage output.

Brennie
11-10-2009, 03:51 PM
Guess it comes down to whether I want to optimize or have fun...hmmmm...

Y'know, i think its kinda fun being able to handle every trap in game, while still sneaking up behind enemies and taking off a huge chunk of their life in one hit (Or, y'know, Assassinating them before they get a chance to cast fireball at your whole party... hehehehe...).

I suppose thats just my playstyle. First time playing through a mildly optimized character and going :"WOAH, did i just do that?!" is where the fun is for me ^_^

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Ahh yeah, that's a good point Brennie, I do like feeling like I actually have an impact in my party as well. And also having a challenge/something to do. Was moreso worried about that for being an acrobat since, as stated above, people go Two Wep. Fighting for a reason.

I just thought the staff would be fun and different. Hoping around doing flips with a big beat stick, ya know? ^ ^ :p hahahaha
But I've always liked doing assassin stuff and slinking about in other games...although Rogue is way better!!! :D
Even though I wouldn't really slink much in party's, but still...

Well, thank you all so much! I won't take anymore of your time because now it's down to personal choice. Hopefully I like whatever it is ;) hahah :p

THANKS!!

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 04:13 PM
And Ardkor, I'm SO sorry. My page opened to the most recent post so I didn't even see yours!

Ironically enough I did a character planner and did the exact stats and feats you suggested :) looked beautiful with some damage. Only problem is I don't know if I NEED monk as a second (all the other acro-rogues have it).

Thanks a lot for the suggestions :) will defs consider them if I go acro.

Ardkor
11-10-2009, 04:22 PM
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960&highlight=big+stick

This is an excellent looking build for a quarterstaff/acrobat, though he builds it around a halfling. Might be good for some ideas for you.

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 04:27 PM
Yeah, I looked at that earlier! Needs the monk thing though and I don't know if I want to buy it just yet. First char after all.

Thanks a lot Arkdor!

shores11
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
So I've decided to play a rogue! (yaay) :)
It is my first character, but I really am not worries about a learning curve. I'll get by.

But I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask you all on forums (after having done some research one my own).
I've also been messing around with some builds.

First off, is an acrobat (or quarterstaff wielding rogue) any good (without the use of a Monk second)? I've done my research and a lot of people were telling me to aim for Assassin...but the quarterstaff is so cool...at least I think so :p

My second question is that could I still do a sneak attack/stealth rogue with a staff?

And finally, possible starter stats I should aim for? I've been kinda messed because wiki suggests 14 Int, but everyone I've talked to says that is waaaaay high. Anyone got some opinions?

I'd really appreciate the help, and THANKS! to anyone that replies :)

Starting ability stats - 28 point build (my suggestion):

Strength = 14 (with +6 item and +2 tome = 22 strength end game, plenty for a rogue)

Dexterity = 16 (take all level up points in DEX, +6 DEX item and +2 tome = 30) NOTE: weapon finesse and 2 weapon fighting is a must)

Constitution = 12 (can get to 20 easily with some CON enhancers and can achieve just under or right at 300 HP end game. Plenty if you play like a rogue)

Intellegence = 14 (starting at 14 will get you to 22 end game minimum which will enhance your search and disable skills, a must in my opinion)

Wisdom = 10 (start at 10 just because you do not want a minus on your SPOT skill)

Charisma = 8 (not reall important even if you invest in UMD skill, starting at 8 with equipment and UMD investment you can get to 34 or 35 UMD.)

This is how I started my 28 point rogue and never rerolled him and is very effective at end game. I also took "Way of the Mechanic" as well for my build.

VladdyD
11-10-2009, 07:04 PM
Hey thanks Shores :)
That looks delicious!!