PDA

View Full Version : level 1-20 without raiding



Corebreach
11-06-2009, 02:53 AM
Can it be done? Is it a common playstyle? Can those who've tried it please comment on whether they succeeded and found it satisfying?

Uska
11-06-2009, 02:58 AM
I imagine its possible but grindtastic, but why not raid:confused: raids here arent as time intensive as WoW or other games one raid the reaver can be done in 15 min or so every three days and is easily shortmanned, even the shroud doesnt take long anymore. nor does VoD or the hound not sure about ToD but I am sure its getting quicker all they time.

Kaldais
11-06-2009, 09:40 AM
Can it be done? Is it a common playstyle? Can those who've tried it please comment on whether they succeeded and found it satisfying?

yes, easily. I'm currently l18 have not ran a single raid yet. In fact, I havent' even started Vale quests yet.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
11-06-2009, 09:44 AM
I played my 1st two years without doing a single raid.

Now.. I'm addicted to the uber raid loots!

IronAngel
11-06-2009, 09:51 AM
The only raids that I have done are VON and TS, not really that big of a deal, but yes you can get to 20 without the raids.

MDS_Geist
11-06-2009, 09:53 AM
It is very easily done.

Is there a reason you don't want to do the raid quests?

Arianrhod
11-06-2009, 09:53 AM
Got a level 17 so far, without ever doing a raid (unless you count duoing Tempest's Spine....). Have done quite a few of the raid prereq/flagging quests, but many of those are fun quests in themselves, even if you never do the raid part.

Lithic
11-06-2009, 09:55 AM
Not only is it easy to get to 20 without raiding (As raids make up only about 1% of ddo quests), but many people avoid most raids until they get to or near cap. Especially the titan and demon queen raids.

IronAngel
11-06-2009, 09:57 AM
It is very easily done.

Is there a reason you don't want to do the raid quests?

I usually can't find a group to do raids myself. Since I have not done them, many people shun me :(. So I continue on my merry way.

Wyrmnax
11-06-2009, 10:01 AM
Raiding != leveling

Also, in many raids that have unique loot, you would get no XP anyway. And its not until you start running stuff on hard/elite that you would need most of the raid loot.

It does make your char less powerful than if you had raid loot, but not enough that you are completely useless. Except perhaps if you are a tank.

Strakeln
11-06-2009, 10:01 AM
I usually can't find a group to do raids myself. Since I have not done them, many people shun me :(. So I continue on my merry way.

A trick I learned long ago is to do your first run of a raid on a cleric. People are much more willing to take someone with no experience along if they're a healer.

Another point is that most of the time, 1 or 2 newbies to a raid make little difference. On Khyber at least, there's always space for one or two or more to learn.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 02:56 PM
It is very easily done.

Is there a reason you don't want to do the raid quests?
The belief that I won't be allowed in unless I already possess raid-strength gear (which I can't get without having raided in the past) or I get a pity invite from a guild (which I don't think I will ever have enough stable free time to join).

Also because I'm curious about how tolerant DDO is of varying playstyles in the endgame. I'm coming here from a very flexible MMO and I want to get myself in the right mindset.

DoctorWhofan
11-06-2009, 03:01 PM
The belief that I won't be allowed in unless I already possess raid-strength gear (which I can't get without having raided in the past) or I get a pity invite from a guild (which I don't think I will ever have enough stable free time to join).



sorry,NO. At least on THelanis, if you fill the needs of thegroup (usually nothing to do with weapons and gear) and are a good player, they will invite you. I think you are not asking theright people.

Here's a suggestion: START YOUR OWN. note that you haven't done the raid before and would love some advice. People usually will jump to help a person in this game.

kafrielveddicus
11-06-2009, 03:04 PM
The belief that I won't be allowed in unless I already possess raid-strength gear (which I can't get without having raided in the past) or I get a pity invite from a guild (which I don't think I will ever have enough stable free time to join).

Also because I'm curious about how tolerant DDO is of varying playstyles in the endgame. I'm coming here from a very flexible MMO and I want to get myself in the right mindset.


Raids are over-rated anyways, the only reason people say they love them is the gear!!!
(Nay-sayers need not reply, that is why you run them over and over and over again)

You are not missing anything by skipping the Raids, play on and have fun!!!

Don't worry what the "Uber/Leet" players are doing, they are having there own fun!!!

tenketsu2
11-06-2009, 03:10 PM
I run with a static group of 4 players, we were all new back in April and have basically only run together since--we've made it to level 15 easily (took a couple month break while waiting for Mod 9), and the only reason we're not higher is we stopped to favor grind for 32 points. We ran Tempest Spine, but compared to the time the XP was nothing to write home about. Similarly with the first part of Titan, although the 2nd part stomped us into the dirt so badly we gave up on beating it without inviting 8 other people or spending a fortune on consumables. Based on that, we're thinking that aside from Tempest Spine, you have to raid with big groups in order to get strong enough to raid in small groups, since the only equipment upgrades we have left are raid loot and crafted (which also comes from raids). However, the non-raid quests have been entirely doable without those things so far, even yawn-worthy.

Wizzly_Bear
11-06-2009, 03:17 PM
Raids are over-rated anyways, the only reason people say they love them is the gear!!!
(Nay-sayers need not reply, that is why you run them over and over and over again)

You are not missing anything by skipping the Raids, play on and have fun!!!

Don't worry what the "Uber/Leet" players are doing, they are having there own fun!!!
i find Shroud and Abbot quite fun. i will probably continue running them even once i have all the loot i want from them. VoD and Hound i do not like and stopped running them when i got my loot. the others are okay on occasion.

/r op: yes you can easily attain 20th without raiding. your gear will be very subpar though.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 03:50 PM
sorry,NO. At least on THelanis, if you fill the needs of thegroup (usually nothing to do with weapons and gear) and are a good player, they will invite you. I think you are not asking theright people.
I haven't asked any people so far. I don't have a character above level 5 yet.


Here's a suggestion: START YOUR OWN. note that you haven't done the raid before and would love some advice. People usually will jump to help a person in this game.
Lead a group into harder-than-average content I know nothing about? I can't help but think that sounds phenomenally selfish and irresponsible, irrespective of how many people are willing to let me do it.

kafrielveddicus
11-06-2009, 03:53 PM
I'm not asking any people. I don't have a character above level 5 yet.


Lead a group into harder-than-average content I know nothing about? I can't help but think that sounds phenomenally selfish and irresponsible, irrespective of how many people are willing to let me do it.

I think he/she means you could form the group, and someone would come along to lead the group.

ReaperAlexEU
11-06-2009, 04:05 PM
in some raids there are a few key jobs that need a good build, thats where the power gamers shine. as for all the other jobs, even casual RP players like me can happily fill a spot and contribute well enough to the raid. i did very little raiding until the shroud came out, then i decided to give shroud crafting a go and havent looked back since. at first i had no idea what was going on, but reading the guides and doing the raid a few times helped and it wasnt long before i was showing other new raiders the ropes.

on my server most raid parties are happy to explain things to first timers, while i'm on a european server two other posters have echoed the same sort of community i'm used to, so you should be fine. there will always be the odd raid that only wants experienced players only, just ignore that group and jump on the next one.

so, don't be intimidated by raids, sure you need uber gear if your gonna be the lead tank, but thats 1 person who needs uber gear out of 11! or to put it another way, with all the old farts in the game that have uber gear that 11 people with uber gear, plenty of room for 1 without ;)

Angelus_dead
11-06-2009, 04:43 PM
Lead a group into harder-than-average content I know nothing about? I can't help but think that sounds phenomenally selfish and irresponsible, irrespective of how many people are willing to let me do it.
Erm, how do you think those raids were completed when they first came out? There was no "experience required" leader to guide it.

The key difference from your situation is having an existing friendship with some other players, so it's not just random strangers hitting an LFM icon.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Erm, how do you think those raids were completed when they first came out? There was no "experience required" leader to guide it.
When those raids first came out, they were new to everyone. There were only two options: go in with a leader who'd never done it before, or don't go in. That no longer holds true, so your point carries little weight. Furthermore, even if the party leader is inexperienced with a given dungeon, he need not be new to raids in general or to leading teams.

Angelus_dead
11-06-2009, 06:36 PM
When those raids first came out, they were new to everyone. There were only two options: go in with a leader who'd never done it before, or don't go in. That no longer holds true, so your point carries little weight.
Wrong. That observation does nothing to undermine my statement.

As your own situation has demonstrated, you do NOT actually have an accessible option to go with a leader who's done it before, because you can't find one. Therefore you face those same two choices; and since you're not a unique snowflake, other players are in the same position.

Arvess
11-06-2009, 06:42 PM
I've barely raided and barely done much of the quests even. I spent a ton of time running in explorer areas. Its even easier now with Xp for repeat kills. every 30 mintes you rack up about 2k xp as your kill counts go up and then you hit marks generating 13000 or 59000 xp.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm not asking any people. I don't have a character above level 5 yet.


Lead a group into harder-than-average content I know nothing about? I can't help but think that sounds phenomenally selfish and irresponsible, irrespective of how many people are willing to let me do it.

Since the F2P went live the population has exploded. There are way more people like you(no raid Experience) than people who know the raids at all.

You leading one is not selfish at all, it is the way the rest of us did it from day one. And I would have no problem if you or someone like you led a raid I was in, because if you tell us to do the wrong thing I will let you know anyway. The chances of you ruining a raid as leader are pretty slim unless you go in with all new players, and then you can blame them anyway.

You seem to advocate hand holding over adventuring. DDO is not babysitting, go out and play, get experience and lead friends to glorious adventures.

Ciaran
11-06-2009, 06:45 PM
Yes, it's very easy. In fact, I often joke with my guildies:

"Raids are for loot, not for XP". :D

This is because, in my view, the loot from raids and the experience of the raid (for some anyway) are the reasons for going. These days it's common to jump into raids at level or under level and get your XP nerfed to oblivion because of higher level players. For example, my tempest barb's first time elite completion of Reaver got me exactly zero XP because I ran it at 13 with 20's. Same thing the first time I completed Hound on Normal as well as VOD.

So yes, it's quite easy to get XP without raiding - explorer/slayer areas and regular quests are where it's at.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 06:47 PM
When those raids first came out, they were new to everyone. There were only two options: go in with a leader who'd never done it before, or don't go in. That no longer holds true, so your point carries little weight. Furthermore, even if the party leader is inexperienced with a given dungeon, he need not be new to raids in general or to leading teams.

You give too much weight to being the leader. When I vote for a leader or officers in a guild I expect them to really lead as I chose to follow them. When I join a group the leader is the guy with the star and will be listened to ONLY if I think he is right. Not just because he has the little star.

His point carries plenty of weight because thre are more new people then vets and you are going to have lead at sometime. We can not pull you all through everything.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 06:48 PM
Wrong. That observation does nothing to undermine my statement.

As your own situation has demonstrated, you do NOT actually have an accessible option to go with a leader who's done it before, because you can't find one. Therefore you face those same two choices; and since you're not a unique snowflake, other players are in the same position.

My guess is there is ten times the number of new people now as opposed to Vets. They will need to do some leading at some point.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 06:52 PM
As your own situation has demonstrated, you do NOT actually have an accessible option to go with a leader who's done it before, because you can't find one.
How can you claim I can't find something I've never looked for? As I've already said, I don't have a single character above level five yet. The lowest-level raid I've found on ddowiki is a level 10 dungeon, so I've never tried to look for a raid leader. Seriously, what would be the point?

Once I actually reach raid levels, I will probably try to get into a few just to see what they're like. Only then will it make any sense to stake claims regarding whether I can or cannot find one being run by someone who's done it before.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 07:00 PM
How can you claim I can't find something I've never looked for? As I've already said, I don't have a single character above level five yet. The lowest-level raid I've found on ddowiki is a level 10 dungeon, so I've never tried to look for a raid leader. Seriously, what would be the point?

Once I actually reach raid levels, I will probably try to get into a few just to see what they're like. Only then will it make any sense to stake claims regarding whether I can or cannot find one being run by someone who's done it before.

What is the point at level 5 of trying to avoid raids if you have no experience with them? You realize that the answers you are getting are because of your own comments right?

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 07:07 PM
You seem to advocate hand holding over adventuring. DDO is not babysitting, go out and play, get experience and lead friends to glorious adventures.
I am not advocating hand-holding. I am stating that I personally don't feel comfortable doing something the dumb way when a smart way exists. Learning something by personal trial-and-error doesn't make sense when I could learn it from observing others. It makes even less sense if the success, progress, and fun of eleven other people also rides on that dice throw. The player who gets the party together is responsible for its performance. It's Leadership 101, in this game, in other games, and in life in general: successes belong to the team, problems belong to you.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 07:14 PM
I am not advocating hand-holding. I am stating that I personally don't feel comfortable doing something the dumb way when a smart way exists. Learning something by personal trial-and-error doesn't make sense when I could learn it from observing others. It makes even less sense if the success, progress, and fun of eleven other people also rides on that dice throw. The player who gets the party together is responsible for its performance. It's Leadership 101, in this game, in other games, and in life in general: successes belong to the team, problems belong to you.

Sorry but unless I know the leader I rarely expect them to be more than part of the whole.

You came here trying to avoid raids. You did not ask for the smart way to learn o come like someone who wanted to learn. Your OP was more like head in the sand as opposed to wanting to learn the right way.

Maybe you should read some of your posts and your OP.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 07:14 PM
What is the point at level 5 of trying to avoid raids if you have no experience with them?
I want to know what lies ahead. I want to know if raiding is like teaming, if it's something I should expect to be forced into at some point in the higher levels, whether because practically no one does non-raid quests, or some levels don't even have non-raid content, or whatever. That's all. I won't be level 5 forever. Eventually I'll stop farming the low bonus Favor breakpoints for extra TP and start focusing on one or two characters.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 08:36 PM
I want to know what lies ahead. I want to know if raiding is like teaming, if it's something I should expect to be forced into at some point in the higher levels, whether because practically no one does non-raid quests, or some levels don't even have non-raid content, or whatever. That's all. I won't be level 5 forever. Eventually I'll stop farming the low bonus Favor breakpoints for extra TP and start focusing on one or two characters.

You seem to be missing your own point from the start. You wanted to avoid all raids.

Corebreach
11-06-2009, 09:17 PM
You seem to be missing your own point from the start. You wanted to avoid all raids.
I apologize if I gave that impression.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 09:20 PM
I apologize if I gave that impression.

By the time you are ready to raid I am sure many other new players and vets on rerolls will be in the same range and be willing to take you along and let you learn as you go. We all started in that boat and most people have not forgotten that.

Xithos
11-06-2009, 09:23 PM
I leveled my new melee-soul up to 18 before I hit a raid with it and had no trouble farming experience. There are plenty of quests other than the raids; although I enjoy most of the raids also.