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kasmastero
11-05-2009, 11:05 AM
I just made this while playing on the char planner give me your feed back, coz i wanna know if you like it or not here it is.
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

kasmastero
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 232
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 16 17
Dexterity 12 12 12
Constitution 12 12 13
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 12 12 12
Charisma 14 14 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 3.5
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 5 10
Diplomacy 2 6
Disable Device n/a 8.5
Haggle 2 2
Heal 1 7
Hide 2 4
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 3 7
Listen 1 1
Move Silently 1 3
Open Lock n/a 6.5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 2
Spot 1 2
Swim 3 3
Tumble 2 5.5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Human Bonus) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost II


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost III


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost III
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Acrobatic
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Action Boost II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I

tihocan
11-05-2009, 11:15 AM
It's horrible. Maybe explain what you're trying to do so we can see how to get it in the right direction.

ReaperAlexEU
11-05-2009, 12:34 PM
bit of feedback to explain the "It's horrible" ;)

you've fallen into several pitfalls here, i'll point a few out.

first up an assumption, paly18/rogue2 with rogue skills. i assume you want to be able to do trap work, and maybe even make use of evasion, then you want to be able to do normal fighting with the 18 paly levels.

now, first pitfall: you need search and disable device with full rogue ranks. the only way to get that is to start at lvl1 with rogue, then spend 4 skill points each paly level on those 2 skills. ideally you'll want spot too, thats another 2 skill points per paly level. then you will have to take your second rogue level later on, at lvl10 or more.

second pitfall: your INT is too low to maintain those skills, and it will also hurt your chance of disabling a trap as you wont have all the bonuses a full rogue gets from enhancements and will need good INT to compensate.

third pitfall: with a dex of 12 your reflex save might be a little low, so you evasion might not be used to its fullest

fourth pitfall: with all the other things your trying to get with this build WIS could do with some trimming. given a +6 WIS item you can cast all paly spells in the game with a starting WIS of 8. thats not to say 8 is a good starting stat, but you might want to drop it down a bit to make room for other stats.

fifth pitfall: you've not chosen a paly prestige enhancement. the prestige enhancements can add a lot to a character, which kinda makes them a must have.

sixth pitfall: its very hard to get a good armour class, takes a lot of grinding, so its easier to go for lots of hit points and ignore AC for your first toon. that means more CON.

final pitfall: a paly needs a lot of good stats, as does a rogue, mix the two together and you need even more stats, its all just a bit too much for a 28 point build. try something simpler to start with, you can make this work but its gonna be a lot easier with a 32 point build, and by the time you unlock that you'll have a much better understanding of the game.

anyway, let us know what you were aiming for and we'll see if there's a way to make it work.

kasmastero
11-06-2009, 10:24 AM
I am kinda new to the game, im aiming for a paly that can disarm traps and see hiden doors. A quite heavy armour class, if you got a idea i could change say it. I made this char plan when i was playing with it so i want "Mad!!".

Arianrhod
11-06-2009, 10:41 AM
I am kinda new to the game, im aiming for a paly that can disarm traps and see hiden doors. A quite heavy armour class, if you got a idea i could change say it. I made this char plan when i was playing with it so i want "Mad!!".

A paladin that can disarm traps is hard to do, because the difficulties for both finding and disarming them go up as the quest level goes up. Because of this, you have to keep putting points into Search & Disable (and preferably Spot & Open Locks as well) to keep the skills high enough to be useful. Paladins, however, only get 2 skill points per level, which would only be enough to keep one of those skills maxed (you really need at least the first 2). In order to get the skill points, you would have to put more stat points into INT, which pulls points away from other important stats. Paladins kind of need all their stats; can't really afford to skimp on STR or CON, CHA is important for paladin special abilities, INT need to be at least 13 if you want Combat Expertise, which most "AC tanks" do, WIS is your spellcasting stat, and DEX is used for AC & reflex saves (especially important if you have Evasion, which is one of the benefits of taking 2 rogue levels). Human helps, because you can use Human Versatility to get a skill boost, but it's always going to be short on skill points, just because it's a paladin.

Then there's the AC. A paladin 18/rogue 2 can have great AC & saving throws, but you need the right enhancements & gear, and once you've invested everything the character has and then some into having trapsmithing skills, AC, & great saves, you have a character who can't kill anything. Being the last to die can be fun the first few times, but there comes a point when you want to finish the quest and that monster is still in your way ;)

ivar415
11-06-2009, 10:43 AM
In other words you want a Rogue that can fight good, aka a solo build.

Well, then make a fricken Rogue that can fight good. Rogue´s have 3 prestige classes, two of those have nice fighting perks. Choose one.

drac317
11-06-2009, 10:49 AM
In other words you want a Rogue that can fight good, aka a solo build.

Well, then make a fricken Rogue that can fight good. Rogue´s have 3 prestige classes, two of those have nice fighting perks. Choose one.

gotta agree with Ivar on this one. disagree about the cheese though;ketchups better ;)

kasmastero
11-06-2009, 11:10 AM
I understand you guys, but there's a problem
1)I don't want a good-fighting rouge, I want a sneaky trap solving paladin
2)I want a paladin that has enough of everything to keep the damn thing going.
3)I want a pally more then a rouge, so i need someone to give me a idea what should i do.

I want a good spread-out pally that can fight an army, while his opening a door to a kingdom with seven very compicated locks. thats the view, i want a open locking tank
here is something i tried, im so new i don't know if it's better or worse than the previous one, look at this.
P.S you can offend it critisise as much as possible i need to know what i did wrong and what right. So fire your opinions at me, because i really want that pall-rouge. though if you have a different mix please tell me or show the code coz i wanna know. write what you want me to do. hope someones gonna answer.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

kasmastero
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(17 Paladin \ 3 Rogue)
Hit Points: 270
Spell Points: 184
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 19
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 5
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 3 15
Diplomacy 2 6
Disable Device 3 13
Haggle 2 2
Heal -1 6
Hide 4 8.5
Intimidate 6 8
Jump 3 7
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 6 9
Open Lock 6 13.5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 3 8
Spot 3 11
Swim 3 5
Tumble 4 9
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Alertness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Paladin Concentration I
Enhancement: Paladin Heal I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Remove Disease I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Spot
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV

Arianrhod
11-06-2009, 11:15 AM
Even a pure rogue would want more than 8 INT. 14 is often recommended for pure rogues, who have plenty of skill points, because it's the stat that affects Search & Disable. If you're going to take more paladin levels than rogue levels, and you want to disable traps, you really, really want at least 12-14 INT. If all you want to do is open doors, you can get away with less (just put points into Open Locks and get a Detect Secret Doors clickie).

If you're finding you just don't have enough stat points to get all the stats to a "minimum reasonable level" to achieve your goals with this build, you'll be starting to get the idea of what we've been trying to tell you. Ideally, to do what you want with this character, you'd want every stat at least 14, and STR, CON, maybe even INT at 16. It just can't be done with 28 points (or 32, for that matter, which is why people generally don't try builds like this till they've collected a lot of tomes). If you're dead set on making a pally that can do traps, you'll have to boost your INT and give up some combat ability. If what you really want is a good combat pally, the trapsmithing is just going to have to go. It's not worth investing just a little bit into and finding the traps have outleveled you by level 5.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
11-06-2009, 12:07 PM
And don't put so much into concentration. You're not going to be casting very much during combat.

ReaperAlexEU
11-06-2009, 12:18 PM
hey, no worries about being new, were not trying to put you down, we just don't want to see you invest all your gaming time into a character only to find out it can't do the job you wanted it to do.

you need to get full ranks (23 ranks at lvl20) in search and disable, without full ranks in both of those you won't be able to do trap work. search lets you find the control box, if you cant find the box then you can't turn the trap off. search isnt done on a roll, either your score is high enough or it isnt.

disable device is done on a roll, once you've found the box then you can try to disable the trap. if your score and roll is too low then you blow the control box up! not only does that hurt, it also means that trap can never be turned off. for that reason you always want your disable skill to be good, a few failures will cost tools, a critical failure means its cost tools, hurt some people and left a trap in the way of the party.

open lock is a bit more forgiving, if you roll badly nothing happens, so you can keep trying until you either do it, or you roll a 20 and find your max isnt good enough to ever open the lock.

check out this great resource on what numbers you need to be able to do trap work:

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Is_my_(insert_rogue_skill)_high_enough

that should help you see why you need to get full ranks in the rogue skills you want to use, and why its gonna be tough with a paly that gets a fraction of the skill points per level needed for it.

have you thought about making a ranger with rogue skills? its a much easier class to mix for full rogue abilities and plenty of combat prowess.

as for armour class, i tend to advise against going for armour class on your first toon. its not impossible to get, but it does take a very long time and a lot of grinding. as an example you will almost certainly hit lvl20 before you get all the items needed to get your AC high enough for it to work fully. until you get the items your going to get hit a lot, on some builds this means all the armour you have might as well be a robe, like on my first fighter, but the armour looks good so its staying :). its a lot easier to aim for lots of hit points and a play style that puts you just behind the main tanks. having good saving throws will then help a lot when the magic gets flung about. you will probably find at about lvl10 the monsters will be hitting you a lot of the time, then between lvl10 and when you get all those rare AC items your going to get hit by everything.

a paly is not the definitive tank. in fact a lot of tanks in DDO don't have heavy armour, they are in robes and outfits with insane amounts of dexterity. some also have a level of monk so they can add their wisdom bonus to their AC. so if your after a tank then you don't have to be a paly. dexterity adds to your AC, but its limited by the armour you wear, so to get a high AC in heavy armour you need fighter or dwarf enhancements that let you squeeze a bigger dexterity bonus into bigger armour. another problem is you don't get evasion in heavy or medium armour, so if you want a knight in shining armour then that knight won't be able to dodge a fireball like a rogue, ranger or monk can.

i'm wondering if your fixed on a paly for the wrong reasons, you want a tank that can wade through the monsters and also do the traps and locks, but why does that tank have to be a paladin? maybe if we explore why you want a paladin we can come up with an alternative that will let you make a tank that does traps. there are plenty of tanks running about in game that can also do traps, but they arn't paladins. in fact most paladins arn't tanks at all, but DPS machines.

so can you expand a bit more on this concept you have? focus on the tank bit, aside from technicalities (being able to kill and not be killed) what else do you see? do you see a knight in shining armour? is this character a bit more shady and wearing lighter armour? draw us a picture of this character, i'm hoping another class will fit it better than a paly.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 01:09 PM
I understand you guys, but there's a problem
1)I don't want a good-fighting rouge, I want a sneaky trap solving paladin
2)I want a paladin that has enough of everything to keep the damn thing going.
3)I want a pally more then a rouge, so i need someone to give me a idea what should i do.

I want a good spread-out pally that can fight an army, while his opening a door to a kingdom with seven very compicated locks. thats the view, i want a open locking tank
here is something i tried, im so new i don't know if it's better or worse than the previous one, look at this.
P.S you can offend it critisise as much as possible i need to know what i did wrong and what right. So fire your opinions at me, because i really want that pall-rouge. though if you have a different mix please tell me or show the code coz i wanna know. write what you want me to do. hope someones gonna answer.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

kasmastero
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(17 Paladin \ 3 Rogue)
Hit Points: 270
Spell Points: 184
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 19
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 5
Bluff 2 2
Concentration 3 15
Diplomacy 2 6
Disable Device 3 13
Haggle 2 2
Heal -1 6
Hide 4 8.5
Intimidate 6 8
Jump 3 7
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 6 9
Open Lock 6 13.5
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 3 8
Spot 3 11
Swim 3 5
Tumble 4 9
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Alertness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Acid Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Paladin Concentration I
Enhancement: Paladin Heal I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Remove Disease I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Spot
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV




1. You need int to be a trap solving anything.
2. You are asking for too much out of too little. I suggest buying 32 point builds and then Raising INT.
3. Play a full paladin and find a rogue to be your friend.

A good spread out paladin that fights an army and opens the seven locks to a kingdom? Not as likely to happen as you hope. People are giving you advice but you seem to be ignoring it. A Paladin/Rogue can be done but one of the things you may need to sacrifice is the STR and DEX both starting high. You need CON, you need INT.

Thrudh
11-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Paladin and rogue skills are very hard to mix...

(1) Paladins are already strapped for build points.. You want a decent STR, CON, and CHA for paladins... Rogues need a good INT and DEX...

(2) Paladins get very few skill points, so it will be impossible for you to keep up all your rogue skills...

A strong melee character with rogue skills is ranger/rogue... Rangers get 6 skill points per level, and spot and search are class skills for rangers, so you really only have to spend extra points on Disable and Open Lock.

An 18/2 paladin/rogue can be a very good build if all you want from rogue is UMD and evasion... Trying to fit trap skills in there is pretty much impossible.

JStone
11-06-2009, 01:58 PM
perhaps your paladin doesnt disable traps at all...maybe he just walks right through them.
lets see we could do 18pal/2rog ,
youll want light armor for evasion, maybe a nice shining Mythral Breastplate
we can make you a drow so that you get the dex and intel bonuses, heck even a charisma bonus.
the drow will also get you a bonus to search, although i still doubt youll be able to disarm much but maybe you can find secret doors and with a good dex you can unlock stuff.

when i think of the elven courts i would imagine the kings guards (knights) to wear light armor and be delicate and dextrous, although stillm pretty hardy as far as elves go

14 str 17 dex 12con 16 int 10 wis 10 cha

kasmastero
11-06-2009, 02:06 PM
I understand what all of you are saying, well since i need to draw a picture I'll tell you. I'm into Paladins, because all the stories I like are the knights covered in a shiny armour ready for battle, having the tools in their chain mail carrying a bag of thieves tools. But this is a stupid reason, it ain't gonna help anybody; I am quite sorry to say, but the guys standing in the back shooting from a long bow, or a crossbow aren't my style; I used to be the guy in mmorpg's, front line, a big war weapon, fighting the hell outta himself. I see now that this game is different, it owns maths, instead of pure quest and exhilarating adventures that no one cared about the maths. this game is a structure; pure maths.

I understand that I am a bit picky, yet i always loved doing exactly the right thing, but now it looks like i can't be that guy anymore. I understand some kind of a tough guy like a monk, but i don't see a ranger with a great axe or a mace. I really appreciate your help, you are the guys that are putting me in the right place. see ya gotta go ill be back.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
11-06-2009, 02:19 PM
A ranger does not have to use a bow. They are in fact far more effective as a dual weilding dps machine. They even get the dual weapon fighting feat without having to meet the dex requirement.

Don't let the word ranger fool you. That class does not in any way have to use a ranged weapon and will actualy be quite gimpy if you try and focus on ranged fighting.

JStone
11-06-2009, 02:41 PM
this game is different your right...its different in the fact that it allows you to try to build a paladin that can do rogue things...granted youll be bad at paladin things and even worse at rogue things but you can try... id like to see you try to make a sneaky paladin in WOW i dont even think a paladin gets the ability.

again if you want to "SPECIALIZE" in skills you have to be A SPECIALIST they get more skills

what your asking for is like asking to make a fighter that has all the best fighter stuff but can also cast 9th level magic spells

disabling traps is what rogues do granted you can multiclass and still be able to do it, but not with a low inteligence and only 2 skill points per level

Milolyen
11-06-2009, 02:43 PM
I understand what all of you are saying, well since i need to draw a picture I'll tell you. I'm into Paladins, because all the stories I like are the knights covered in a shiny armour ready for battle, having the tools in their chain mail carrying a bag of thieves tools. But this is a stupid reason, it ain't gonna help anybody; I am quite sorry to say, but the guys standing in the back shooting from a long bow, or a crossbow aren't my style; I used to be the guy in mmorpg's, front line, a big war weapon, fighting the hell outta himself. I see now that this game is different, it owns maths, instead of pure quest and exhilarating adventures that no one cared about the maths. this game is a structure; pure maths.

I understand that I am a bit picky, yet i always loved doing exactly the right thing, but now it looks like i can't be that guy anymore. I understand some kind of a tough guy like a monk, but i don't see a ranger with a great axe or a mace. I really appreciate your help, you are the guys that are putting me in the right place. see ya gotta go ill be back.

That "Knight" you picture has more than a few flaws when it comes to the rules of this game. First the biggiest ability you gain from the 2 rogue lvls is evasion so the only chain mail he could wair would be mithral. For you to create him it would take more build points than you have (only way it would really be possible is when they release the true reincarnation and are able to make 36 point builds) because you would want atleast a few points in every single stat as others are saying.

With an 8 int every pally lvl you take you will only get 1 skill point. Pallies only get 2 per lvl and with an 8 int you have a -1 modifier so 2 - 1 = 1 ... for disable and search you will need a total of 4 per lvl which means you need a 14 int also with an 8 int you will start in the negative on the disable trap skill making it harder for you. Then for evasion to be helpfull you will want a high reflex save so you will want points in dex. Then that Knight needs to be strong to dish out dmg but can't really dish out dmg without being able to take some hits as well so you need a high con. Paladins get spells but you need wis to cast them and cha is an important stat for its special abilities.

*edit* you would be able to get by with a 12 int because you select human and they get an extra skill point per lvl.

So basically what everyone is saying (me included) is that you are trying to do to much and in doing that you are not going to be very good at any of it. There are Barbs that can get in the 60 + str at end game ... you would be lucky to get in the 30's. There are Rogues that get their search and disable into the 80+ where you would be doing well to get them in the 40's. There are Barbs that hit 800+hps (if I am not mistaken) along with the 60 + str ... you would be lucky to get 500.

You see where this is going? We are not trying to rain on your parade or anything like that but you asked people for their opinions and advice and that is what we are giving you. You are more than welcome to make the build ... we are just trying to make sure you understand what can and can't be done and what to expect.

*edit*
Now to put a spin on it. Lots of times those "knights" you refer to have no real abilities to cast spells which makes them more of a fighter. With this in mind you can easily create a lawful good fighter (fighter in D&D has many different meanings all based on alignment, neutral is like a merc/gladiator, lawfull is like a knight, chaotic is like a wildman/brawler, good is like a holy avenger, evil is like a Warlord). With this in mind you can create your "knight" as a pure good fighter, this will allow you to drop wis and cha needs so you can up your focus on the fighters needs of Str and Con and the rogues needs of Dex and Int.

Milolyen

Arianrhod
11-06-2009, 02:49 PM
Here's another way to look at it. You've got a brand-new adventurer, fresh off the boat, with dreams of being a great hero. Trouble is, he just doesn't have what it takes (28-point build). In time, he can gain some experience and come close to achieving his grand aspirations (unlock 32-point builds, amass some tomes, and Greater Reincarnate), but until then he's going to be disappointed in his lackluster abilities, and have to settle for more realistically achievable goals ;)

spifflove
11-06-2009, 02:51 PM
move your points out of wisdom and into intelligence and pick up a +6 wisdom item and sp item.

max intimidate
max umd
catch up balance with 2nd rogue level.

Milolyen
11-06-2009, 03:03 PM
move your points out of wisdom and into intelligence and pick up a +6 wisdom item and sp item.

max intimidate
max umd
catch up balance with 2nd rogue level.

He does not have enough skill points to keep his trapsmith skills up and you want him to try and get inti umd and balance?

Milolyen

ReaperAlexEU
11-06-2009, 03:30 PM
right, had a bit of a go at getting something with trap skills:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 104
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 20
Dexterity 13 13
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 11 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 1
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device 6 25
Haggle 0 0
Heal -1 -1
Hide 1 1
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 6 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 1 1
Open Lock 5 24
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 25
Spot 3 22
Swim 2 5
Tumble 5 5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 16 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+7)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


i've focused on getting the skills together, managed to max search, disable, spot and open lock! any thing other than those 4 are up for personal tweakings. its important the order you take the levels at, you cant get lvl6 ranger early for tempest as you need to use the ranger levels to make up for the shortfall in skills on the paly levels. also rogue 2 needs to be last to plug any gaps the ranger levels couldnt cover. you could go all out paly, but then as your leveling your spot skill would fall miles behind, and you'd not have any open lock skills. the way i've planned the levels is focused on giving you the best skills possible as you level up. it also makes it a very slow burning character as things don't come together till the very end.

there are 3 feats left to chose. i've added feats in to get tempest, which means come lvl19 you'll suddenly get a boost to two weapon fighting as you get improved TWF and 10% speed boost when dual wielding. i've also added toughness and imp crit in as i see those as must haves. other than that i'm not sure what to do with the remaining feats.



you will need a wisdom item to cast any spells.

your STR will be boarderline, so always run rams might as your first ranger spell, thast +2 STR (and extra to dmg too).

STR=15 base +5 level +2 1750 favour tome +2 rams might +6 item = 30

its enough, just, thought your paly levels will give you some nice smites, make sure you pick up both exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

also get knight of the chalice II, thats a very nice toy against evil outsiders, which you should pick up as a ranger favoured enemy

so, what do you think of that? and can some one add a bit of feedback too?

Quintun
11-06-2009, 04:31 PM
Paladin and rogue skills are very hard to mix...

(1) Paladins are already strapped for build points.. You want a decent STR, CON, and CHA for paladins... Rogues need a good INT and DEX...

(2) Paladins get very few skill points, so it will be impossible for you to keep up all your rogue skills...

A strong melee character with rogue skills is ranger/rogue... Rangers get 6 skill points per level, and spot and search are class skills for rangers, so you really only have to spend extra points on Disable and Open Lock.

An 18/2 paladin/rogue can be a very good build if all you want from rogue is UMD and evasion... Trying to fit trap skills in there is pretty much impossible.

If you are splashing the rogue for skills and not evasion you can skip dex. Open locks can not blow up so a few rolls because you lack dex is not going to ruin anything. But you have to have the INT for the skill points. It is not simple to plan but it is not impossible at all.

Quintun
11-06-2009, 04:33 PM
right, had a bit of a go at getting something with trap skills:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 104
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 20
Dexterity 13 13
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 11 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 1
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device 6 25
Haggle 0 0
Heal -1 -1
Hide 1 1
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 6 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 1 1
Open Lock 5 24
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 25
Spot 3 22
Swim 2 5
Tumble 5 5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 16 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+7)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


i've focused on getting the skills together, managed to max search, disable, spot and open lock! any thing other than those 4 are up for personal tweakings. its important the order you take the levels at, you cant get lvl6 ranger early for tempest as you need to use the ranger levels to make up for the shortfall in skills on the paly levels. also rogue 2 needs to be last to plug any gaps the ranger levels couldnt cover. you could go all out paly, but then as your leveling your spot skill would fall miles behind, and you'd not have any open lock skills. the way i've planned the levels is focused on giving you the best skills possible as you level up. it also makes it a very slow burning character as things don't come together till the very end.

there are 3 feats left to chose. i've added feats in to get tempest, which means come lvl19 you'll suddenly get a boost to two weapon fighting as you get improved TWF and 10% speed boost when dual wielding. i've also added toughness and imp crit in as i see those as must haves. other than that i'm not sure what to do with the remaining feats.



you will need a wisdom item to cast any spells.

your STR will be boarderline, so always run rams might as your first ranger spell, thast +2 STR (and extra to dmg too).

STR=15 base +5 level +2 1750 favour tome +2 rams might +6 item = 30

its enough, just, thought your paly levels will give you some nice smites, make sure you pick up both exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

also get knight of the chalice II, thats a very nice toy against evil outsiders, which you should pick up as a ranger favoured enemy

so, what do you think of that? and can some one add a bit of feedback too?

The build needs CHA, the best paladin skills are based off of CHA.

ReaperAlexEU
11-06-2009, 05:35 PM
The build needs CHA, the best paladin skills are based off of CHA.

i know, but its all about finding corners to cut with this build. i decided not to plan in any tomes except the 1750. so i cut wis, a +6 item will get the spells flowing. i cut dex to 13 to unlock tempest. i dropped cha to 11 cos i have 7 paly on my lvl20 char and get some nice use from 11 char (items etc on top). needed int 14 to make the skills work. didn't want to go below 14 con, at the very least this build is gonna need a half decent HP buffer. i also went str based over finesse, its not like there will be a ton of sneak attack damage and you can just about get 30 str to work.

with a +1 dex tome you could start with 12 dex, you can if needs be wait till lvl12 before taking dodge/mobility/spring attack as you cant get tempest till lvl19

you could also sink a +1 int tome at lvl1 if you wanted to drop int to 13. the first rogue lvl gives some room to breath on the skills, so you can loose one or two. also the last rogue lvl leaves you with 1 skill point spare, so you could eat the int tome at lvl2 and still max the rogue skills out come lvl20, will mean a skill is 1 point behind as you level up though.

given 32 point build and a rack of tomes this would be a lot easier, as it is i think i've managed to hit most objectives except for AC which won't be solid till long after lvl20!

Quintun
11-06-2009, 05:54 PM
i know, but its all about finding corners to cut with this build. i decided not to plan in any tomes except the 1750. so i cut wis, a +6 item will get the spells flowing. i cut dex to 13 to unlock tempest. i dropped cha to 11 cos i have 7 paly on my lvl20 char and get some nice use from 11 char (items etc on top). needed int 14 to make the skills work. didn't want to go below 14 con, at the very least this build is gonna need a half decent HP buffer. i also went str based over finesse, its not like there will be a ton of sneak attack damage and you can just about get 30 str to work.

with a +1 dex tome you could start with 12 dex, you can if needs be wait till lvl12 before taking dodge/mobility/spring attack as you cant get tempest till lvl19

you could also sink a +1 int tome at lvl1 if you wanted to drop int to 13. the first rogue lvl gives some room to breath on the skills, so you can loose one or two. also the last rogue lvl leaves you with 1 skill point spare, so you could eat the int tome at lvl2 and still max the rogue skills out come lvl20, will mean a skill is 1 point behind as you level up though.

given 32 point build and a rack of tomes this would be a lot easier, as it is i think i've managed to hit most objectives except for AC which won't be solid till long after lvl20!


I suggest he buy the 32 PT build then. Paladin as a main with such low CHA is going to hurt some of his best DPS spikes. Not to mention Lay on Hands. Overall though I think you did a nice job on an interesting build.

ReaperAlexEU
11-06-2009, 06:05 PM
thanks :)

just a shame we can't squeeze UMD in, love that on my toon :)

strath
11-06-2009, 08:34 PM
Fighters are also great knights and they are much more easy to combine with rogue.

If CHA becomes a stat that you can live without you can bump up other stats.

kasmastero
11-07-2009, 03:37 AM
i Understand all of it, I don't need my paladin for fighting becouse he waists my Char and Wis, so if i say i got a fighter with only need for Con and Str, And rouge Dex and Int i can manege.
the only thing i need to know is how to spread my levels what should i do fighter 14 rouge 6, im not sure how to spread it out, also tell me which tank class would help me best on creating a rouge tank. like a ranger or barb or fighter.

when i get the info i can make a plan and show you and you can help me improve it into the ultimate char that does what i want it to do.

malthusian01
11-07-2009, 03:45 AM
This guy reminds me of a conversation that a friend and I had discussing new alts to roll. They could not make up their minds on what they wanted to do. They wanted to have good melee, good spell casting, and able to heal themselves decently. Its like..dude..you cant do everything all at once and be any good at any of them. You have to choose in this game. You cant have everything.

kasmastero
11-07-2009, 05:07 AM
guys i got one of the suggestions and i came up with this. please critisise because i need to know what to improve, this is i think the best one yet, but i have no clue if thats true. Its got all info included e.g. spells.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

kasmaro
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 19
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 16
Dexterity 13 14
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 11 13

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 4 4
Bluff 0 1 1
Concentration 4 4 7
Diplomacy 0 1 1
Disable Device 6 25 28
Haggle 0 1 1
Heal 1 2 3
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 2 4 4
Jump 6 8 8
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 5 7 7
Open Lock 5 20 23
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 4 4 4
Search 6 25 26
Spot 3 24 25
Swim 4 5 5
Tumble 5 7 8
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Repair (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Heal I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Extra Empathy I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Remove Disease I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 16 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost IV
Enhancement: Paladin: Rally
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Enhancement: Paladin Item Defense III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Tundra Lore II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II
Enhancement: Rogue Sonic Trap Lore I

Arianrhod
11-07-2009, 07:12 AM
Hm....you probably don't want to hear this, but you might find it helpful to make a few characters on servers other than the one you plan to play on (so as not to use up your character slots). A pure rogue, a pure paladin, a pure fighter, a pure ranger. Try each for a few levels, play around with some of their enhancments and special abilities to see how they actually work ingame. Then you'll have a better idea of how much you're going to be using things like Smite Evil and Animal Empathy. It makes it easier to decide which enhancements to take, and which class abilities are worth multiclassing to get.

honkuimushi
11-07-2009, 08:05 AM
right, had a bit of a go at getting something with trap skills:

/snip

so, what do you think of that? and can some one add a bit of feedback too?

The main problem with that is that you can't get GTWF, though the Chr is also a factor.

If you want to drop dex, you have to go at least 11 Ranger, though 12 is probably better. If you can spring for a +1 Dex tome, you can raise Chr to 12. A +2 tome from 1750 will get you to 14 and low you to take the first level of Divine Might. When you add in 2 more points from Paladin and a +6 item, that puts you at 22-- Not bad for Divine Grace and and LoH. If you greater reincarnate after you reach 1750 on a character, you can put 2 more points in Chr and 1 more in Str. With only 6 levels of Paladin, Hunter of the Dead is probably a better choice. Other benefits of more Ranger levels is that it grants Evasion sooner and lessens the skill crunch.

As for feats, you have 8 and the TWF feats are all granted. So Toughness, Dodge, Mobilty, Spring Attack, Improved Critcal: Slashing, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh, Extend Spell and Oversized Two Weapon Fighting? Power Attack could be exchanged for OTWF or Extend if he would prefer.

So he could use heavy armor until he gets Evasion, at which point a switch to a mithral breastplate, chainmail or a regular chain shirt is recommended. He's still a melee character swinging 2 big swords with the ability to do traps and open locks. He also has some spells and holy abilities to round him out.

kasmastero
11-08-2009, 04:51 AM
soz guys i don't get what the shortcuts mean like otwf and stuff could you tell me plus i think ive got the character i want. so i don't need more help.

ReaperAlexEU
11-08-2009, 06:17 AM
sorry for the late reply, forum ate my post yesterday so i decided to take it out on some mobs :)

i'm gonna run you through the ending stats on my build and your tweaks to it, then we can see what the difference is

my version:
Strength 30 (15 base + 5 level + 2 1750 tome + 6 item + 2 Rams)
Dexterity 20 (13 base + 1 ranger + 6 item)
Constitution 20 (14 base + 6 item)
Intelligence 20 (14 + 6 item when doing trap work)
Wisdom 14 (8 base + 6 item)
Charisma 20 (11 base +3 paladin + 6 item)

your tweaks assuming 2 level ups into STR:
Strength 28 (15 base + 2 level + 1 human adaptability + 2 1750 tome + 6 item + 2 Rams)
Dexterity 20 (13 base + 1 ranger + 6 item)
Constitution 20 (14 base + 6 item)
Intelligence 20 (14 + 6 item when doing trap work)
Wisdom 16 (8 base +2 level + 6 item)
Charisma 20 (11 base +1 level +2 paladin + 6 item)

the difference:
Strength -2 = -1 attack -1 damage
Wisdom +2 = +1 will save +36 spell points
Action point cost -4 = you have 4 more action points to play with

doesn't look too bad does it? so whats the problem? well, 30 STR on a melee tank is cutting things very fine. I have a lvl19 fighter with 34 STR boosted to 42, he also has all the fighter bonuses to attack and damage, making his effective STR a lot higher. I also have a lvl17 barbarian, while not focused on dps (fumpgrr the shield bashing barbarian, i do love my gimps :) ) he still has 30 that goes up to 40 when raged. both of those characters seldom miss their attacks. i also have a 12 ranger/7 paladin/1 rogue with 30 STR, most of the time he hits just fine, but with him i have noticed some mobs that are harder to hit. the solder spiders in the vale stand out in my mind, i was soloing so didnt have ton's of buffs and it was a real struggle to hit them. as a result i had to take care of getting a few extra points to hit, axe enhancements here, greater heroism clicky there, and that made all the difference, he can now hit those spiders easily. but loosing just a few points on your to-hit when your at 30 str can make life tough. as you need human for the skill points you wont have the bonus to axes my dorf gets. so stick with aiming for 30 str, put all 5 level ups into it and you should just about come out on top.

little bit about the two weapon fighting style to answer your question on the shortcuts. every melee gets 4 attacks per round. 2-handed melee's get more of their STR bonus added to their damage and a chance to clip other monsters as they swing. two weapon fighters however get more attacks per round. two weapon fighting its self gives an extra 2 attacks, improved two weapon fighting gives another 1 and greater two weapon fighting gives another 1. so with the full two weapon fighting line you double your attacks to 8 per round! as it is this build will only get to 7 attacks, take 11 levels of ranger and you'll unlock the full 8. thats what others have been pointing out. so, TWF=two weapon fighting, ITWF= improved TWF, GTWF=Greater TWF. also OTWF=oversized TWF letting you use a bigger blade in your off hand without racking up the penalties.

a lvl18 tempest III ranger not only ignores all the TWF to-hit penalties but also gets an extra attack giving them 9 per round. rangers do make exceedingly good rogues, with just 1 rogue level they can keep up with the skills demand a lot easier, and with their free TWF (ie u don't need high dex and can choose other feats as ure given all TWF feats) they make for good melee chars too. with 18 ranger and 1 rogue u also have the option to take a fighter or paly lvl, not sure what use it would be as rangers get evasion making heavy armour redundant, but it is an option.

Arianrhod
11-08-2009, 08:35 AM
soz guys i don't get what the shortcuts mean like otwf and stuff could you tell me plus i think ive got the character i want. so i don't need more help.

OTWF means the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat. It reduces the penalty for using a non-light weapon in the off hand when dual-wielding.

Good luck, and enjoy the game :)

ivar415
11-08-2009, 09:09 AM
It´s awesome you guys are trying to help him with this impossible build, but I´m not sure this is simply a WOW troll or something.

No "Knight" archetype I know of was into knightly stuff while thieving for loot and traps. That´s usually what the sidekick of questionable personal ethics and hygiene was for. :D

As a little tip, just drop the Paladin idea and go for a much more doable Fighter/Rogue. Knights are usually more founded in their fighting skills anway. The D&D Paladin is a class more akin to a Mormon with an attitude and God in his pocket. ;)

kasmastero
11-08-2009, 10:06 AM
thx guys but if you wanna show me a fighter rouge ranger build then show me in code so i know what to do and tweak it to my liking and let others judge.