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worthful
11-02-2009, 10:36 AM
I know many of you tire from posts like this. Sorry, but I've been unsuccessful finding the answers to my questions. Someone once told me you can search a specific forum using google and it works better than the built in search - any one know how to do this?


On to the point:

I'm rolling with a group of friends, and I'm the cleric. I rolled first with only 16 wis. How big of a deal is it to start with less than 18?

In terms of raiding, should i go healbot or occ?
If healbot, should I go halfling for dragonmark or should I just suck it up and buy scrolls left and right?
If occ, how will I do as a main healer? Especially for raids?
I've thrown out a couple successful turn undeads - since this is based on cha, doesn't it make more sense to dump points into cha rather than con? Especially for the DV's.
I've seen that humans can hit 34 wis. How big of an improvement is that over 32?
Does spell failure on armor and shields count for clerics?
How useful would it be to dump a feat (especially if human) into tower shields? Could this make up for lowering con and raising cha?

sirgog
11-02-2009, 11:32 AM
Notes in green

I'm rolling with a group of friends, and I'm the cleric. I rolled first with only 16 wis. How big of a deal is it to start with less than 18?

Ouch. 2 Wis isn't a loss that's all that significant for a long time - but at endgame it makes quite a difference to your offensive casting.

Example: Low level - a 16 Wis Clr can land Command about 70% of the time (1 in 1.43 tries), an 18 Wis 75% (1 in 1.33). Not much difference.

At high level, a 16 base Wis Clr might land Implosion 15% of the time (1 in 6.67 tries), an 18 base 20% of the time (1 in 5). Notice a big difference here?


In terms of raiding, should i go healbot or occ? In raids you tend to mostly heal unless you are an uncommon build (my melee cleric mostly heals in raids), but offensive casters are great at healing too. Most of the key healing abilities help offensive spells too (Maximize in particular); so you can genuinel do both well.
If healbot, should I go halfling for dragonmark or should I just suck it up and buy scrolls left and right?If you are new to raiding, ask for scroll donations for the raids that need them - which are generally Vision of Destruction, Accursed Ascension and Tower of Despair on all difficulties, and most raids on elite. The dragonmarks cost too many feats on a class that has better options
If occ, how will I do as a main healer? Especially for raids? Well.
I've thrown out a couple successful turn undeads - since this is based on cha, doesn't it make more sense to dump points into cha rather than con? Especially for the DV's. Turn stops working at medium levels (although DVs remain nifty). Con, however, becomes more important as you level and enemies start using more potent attacks. When you get hit by a 370 damage Delayed Blast Fireball, you'll regret sacrificing Con. I always advise all players to spend 6 build points on Con (so 12 on elves including drow, 16 on dwarves and warforged, 14 others).
I've seen that humans can hit 34 wis. How big of an improvement is that over 32? 40 is more what geared clerics can hit. Every 2 Wisdom is a tiny amount of spell points and a significant boost to offensive spellcasting.
Does spell failure on armor and shields count for clerics? Nope
How useful would it be to dump a feat (especially if human) into tower shields? Could this make up for lowering con and raising cha?[/QUOTE] It won't help as much as you think, as it won't help you against spell damage at all. Plus, you are a feat starved class.

tihocan
11-02-2009, 12:08 PM
I'm rolling with a group of friends, and I'm the cleric. I rolled first with only 16 wis. How big of a deal is it to start with less than 18?
No big deal.


In terms of raiding, should i go healbot or occ?
You don't have to be a "healbot" build to be an effective raid healer.


If healbot, should I go halfling for dragonmark or should I just suck it up and buy scrolls left and right?
Suck it up.


If occ, how will I do as a main healer? Especially for raids?
Good.


I've thrown out a couple successful turn undeads - since this is based on cha, doesn't it make more sense to dump points into cha rather than con? Especially for the DV's.
Makes sense to increase Cha on a healbot build, but Con should remain high enough. It's mostly Str/Dex that should suffer from it (since you're not planning to fight much). Cha would typically be low on a melee-oritend build that can't afford to spread stats too mcuh.


I've seen that humans can hit 34 wis. How big of an improvement is that over 32?
Minor. You can hit higher than that btw, with appropriate gear.


How useful would it be to dump a feat (especially if human) into tower shields? Could this make up for lowering con and raising cha?
No, bad idea.

worthful
11-02-2009, 12:20 PM
Alright, so I'll reroll (good thing I'm only level 2) and max Wis. So then my stats would look something like....

10str, 8dex, 14con, 8int, 18wis, 12cha? Or is the 2 in str better spent somewhere else?

You mention that clerics are a feat starved class - is that why human is such a popular choice? How much more useful is an occ than a healbot outside of raids? I had originally planned on going straight healbot (thats why i went for dragonmarks) so I'm not worried about having 0 offensive abilities.


I'm using character planner version 3.10 and trying to follow the OCC build from here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=156683 ...I seem to be missing 2 points.

So then, it looks like human occ. Spell failure does affect scrolls, correct?

Angelus_dead
11-02-2009, 12:30 PM
How much more useful is an occ than a healbot outside of raids? I had originally planned on going straight healbot
All clerics should be either melee combatants or offensive casters. Building a "healbot" is a mistake, unless two conditions are met: You suffer from some disability or distracting obstacle preventing you from devoting attention to playing the game, and you don't intend to raid like that. (For example, if you play two accounts at once, then healbot could make sense)

It's like this: Every Cleric build is good at healing virtually automatically. It only requires a small investment of build options to be a good healer. Even though healing is the most important thing a cleric provides, it is easy enough to learn that it's not a big consideration as you create the character. Just remember to get two or three metamagic feats and spend the 10-20 APs on Life Magic and related stuff.

tihocan
11-02-2009, 12:41 PM
10str, 8dex, 14con, 8int, 18wis, 12cha? Or is the 2 in str better spent somewhere else?
Sounds good. Those 2 points in Str will actually be useful for encumbrance without a Str item.
Note that maxing out wisdom is not mandatory to be an effective offensive spellcaster. The benefit compared to 16 won't be noticed. However, if your main goal is to be an offiensive caster and nothing else, there is little reason not to max it out, since you don't need points in many other stats.

And you won't suffer ASF on scrolls (at least on cleric scrolls).

worthful
11-02-2009, 01:20 PM
thanks for all the replies =D

worthful
11-02-2009, 01:46 PM
one last question - is extra turning and the action point to get plenty of DVs worth it?

Angelus_dead
11-02-2009, 01:48 PM
one last question - is extra turning and the action point to get plenty of DVs worth it?
1 AP for one more DV is fine. The feat is not fine.

Visty
11-02-2009, 01:48 PM
only if you really -and i mean really really- have nothing else to spend it on

dasein18
11-02-2009, 01:54 PM
one last question - is extra turning and the action point to get plenty of DVs worth it?

In my opinioin, turn undead & DVs are waste .. for my play style. With the regen items, mana clickies, etc seems like the AP are better spent on things like spell pen, etc. I also think clerics that can solo, nuke, fight, etc are the bomb. You give up a couple spells (no big deal) and some mana pool (not much) but gain more flexibility and fun with the build.

I am sure others have opinions on DV's but I do know some Guilds that even have this motto in their Bio's.. "DV's didn't you see I am an <insert guild name> cleric?"... they have some great clerics, have inspired my approach to being a cleric, and certainly I am not the only one.

tihocan
11-02-2009, 08:48 PM
one last question - is extra turning and the action point to get plenty of DVs worth it?
The feat should only be taken on a pure healbot who does not want to do anything else.

sirgog
11-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Note that maxing out wisdom is not mandatory to be an effective offensive spellcaster. The benefit compared to 16 won't be noticed. However, if your main goal is to be an offiensive caster and nothing else, there is little reason not to max it out, since you don't need points in many other stats.



That is just wrong. Anyone that makes the mistake of not maximizing Wisdom on an offensive caster build will fall massively behind when they approach the level cap and start taking 7 shots to Implode something other clerics hit in 5.

Healbots can get away with 16 Wis, melee clerics with less, but offensive casters without 18 are gimping themselves.

Angelus_dead
11-02-2009, 09:43 PM
taking 7 shots to Implode something other clerics hit in 5.
That's a comical example considering the Implosion cooldown...

Enochroot
11-02-2009, 10:44 PM
That is just wrong. Anyone that makes the mistake of not maximizing Wisdom on an offensive caster build will fall massively behind when they approach the level cap and start taking 7 shots to Implode something other clerics hit in 5.

Healbots can get away with 16 Wis, melee clerics with less, but offensive casters without 18 are gimping themselves.

What does a healbot need 16 wis for? If they really are just a healbot (ie. using just heal)



That's a comical example considering the Implosion cooldown...

? Implosion hits for more times per cast than one ...

tihocan
11-03-2009, 08:25 AM
That is just wrong. Anyone that makes the mistake of not maximizing Wisdom on an offensive caster build will fall massively behind when they approach the level cap and start taking 7 shots to Implode something other clerics hit in 5.
Lol, that's not falling massively behind. And it's not like Implosion is the main offensive cleric spell, with its long cooldown. You sound like someone should not bother casting offensive spells if he starts with 16 Wis, and that's just plain wrong. However, as I said above, there is little reason not to max out Wis on a cleric focused on offensive casting, but the truth is if you don't, you won't really notice the difference.