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View Full Version : When is Abandoning your group justified?



yodino
11-02-2009, 12:14 AM
I set up a team for VoN attunement (1-4) advertised as L10-13 last night. As soon as I was able to gather what I thought was the right mix of classes. me(twf pally), ranger, wiz, FvS, bard, bard/rogue. I made my little speech about how hard it is to fill up a group halfway through a questline and if people could stick together the whole run.

Unfortunately, it was the most ragtagged group of missfits I've come to date. Ranger was using bows instead of twf, bard was level 9 (he knew he was coming in 1 level below my req, but said he's run it alot and wouldn't be a liability) and kept dying from meleeing CR 12-13's (it was on elite). FvS couldn't be bothered to heal, kept AFKing and trailing behind. People were dying left and right and he still had 80% of his mana. I had to LoH myself and a few people just to get through some areas. We hobbled through 1 and 2 but the cave area in part 3 is what did it. After the first wipe (because the ranger who's never run this before went afk without informing the group and came back and FO'd in the troll area instead of zoning into the cave). We reset and did a speed run through normal just to fix his stupidity. Judging by our first run, I suggested we complete it on hard because of the quality of people we had. Rest of the group said it was easy and insisted on elite. So I trusted them and did part 3 on elite. Drow kicked our tails in and we wiped on some scorpions and some clerics. I was too exhausted with leading people who obviously didn't care or were just waiting for things on a silver platter.

So I violated my own rule at the start of the run which was leaving before we finished the series. In my mind, I felt completely justified by doing so, though I'm not sure if I overdid it or not. Should I have kicked out the offending players mid run and reformed? To me, only 2 of us were carrying our own weight in the group, the rest were just piggybacking, so I decided to abandon the whole thing entirely.

/rant off

bigpapatazz
11-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Sometimes when you are in a group like that its best to just bow out. Afk can be understood but not continuely. If the group isnt clicking by part 3 it will never make it.

Borror0
11-02-2009, 12:50 AM
So I trusted them and did part 3 on elite.
Ouch.

UnderwearModel
11-02-2009, 05:32 AM
You tried your best.

I have no idea why people join and then go AFK a LOT. It is just not fair to the other players when that happens.

My time is valuable to me also. If I am playing that means I have escaped my spouse's to do list and I have time to play.

Obviously, the maturity level of the players in your group was a bit low.

I know I was not in this group. I am either way over the level or way under the level with my 32 point builds.

Mellifera
11-02-2009, 05:45 AM
LOL I saw your subject line and thought you were gonna be talking about my Tear of Dhakaan group from last nite that our cleric announced he was rollin on E during. It was probably the funnest trainwreck i've been in in a long time. I had to drop tho. After multiple deaths, recalls, and our wiz dropping, we finally got to the last boss and my son woke up very put out to find himself sleeping in his crib. I took it as a sign and logged.

ssarasin
11-02-2009, 09:39 AM
I joined in on a group the other day and thought it would be a good adventure for us all. It was WW on elite, we had two clerics, a rogue, a mage, a bard, a couple fighters and myself (Ranger/Rogue).

Thought it would be fun... I thought wrong. The rogue got himself killed before we even opened the first gate by the acid trap by running up and opening the door without even looking for the trap. Right there I knew it was going to be a long road...

The two clerics spent most of their time hanging back without healing anyone. The poor fighters were taking a beating and I ended up doing the healing duties with my recently purchased wand of heal moderate wounds. (50 charges goes really fast... *sigh*) And I also ended up being a trap monkey since the rogue rode in the backpack all the way to the first shrine. Once he was rezzed, he still would run headlong into traps...

The bard... I don't think I ever heard him play a single song or cast a single buff... The mage somehow seemed to keep himself alive (barely) through the whole affair...

I'm guessing the one playing the rogue either he had no experience playing a rogue, or his spot and search skills were sub par. Even if he wanted to play more of an active backstabbing/fighting role, he could at least call out the traps for us...

Anway... I ended up bowing out once we got to the second half... I was out of charges and potions and knew the second half would be worse than the first...

*sigh* At least I got some favor out of the experience. :)

Crazyfruit
11-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Some of those sound very entertaining... who doesn't enjoy a great train wreck?

I play for fun & usually only leave when people are being rude. Doesn't matter why or who to. These days I usually even join fellows saying "hi, Taming the Flames right?" "hi, Pit right?" "hi, VoD right?" "hi, Coal Chamber right?" depending on the level. How people react is a good judge of how much fun the group will be... and the rude ones tend to dismiss immediately, with their LFM sticking up looking for more of my classes for another 10 mins :)

Amaile
11-02-2009, 01:28 PM
I joined in on a group the other day and thought it would be a good adventure for us all. It was WW on elite, we had two clerics, a rogue, a mage, a bard, a couple fighters and myself (Ranger/Rogue).
.................................

Anway... I ended up bowing out once we got to the second half... I was out of charges and potions and knew the second half would be worse than the first...

*sigh* At least I got some favor out of the experience. :)




Yeowch. You'd think you'd have it in the bag with a group makeup like that... Just ouch.... *shudder*

On another note, interesting to see someone who lives so close by. :) I'm up in SW Michigan.

Shamurai
11-02-2009, 02:26 PM
I joined in on a group the other day and thought it would be a good adventure for us all. It was WW on elite, we had two clerics, a rogue, a mage, a bard, a couple fighters and myself (Ranger/Rogue).

Thought it would be fun... I thought wrong. The rogue got himself killed before we even opened the first gate by the acid trap by running up and opening the door without even looking for the trap. Right there I knew it was going to be a long road...

The two clerics spent most of their time hanging back without healing anyone. The poor fighters were taking a beating and I ended up doing the healing duties with my recently purchased wand of heal moderate wounds. (50 charges goes really fast... *sigh*) And I also ended up being a trap monkey since the rogue rode in the backpack all the way to the first shrine. Once he was rezzed, he still would run headlong into traps...

The bard... I don't think I ever heard him play a single song or cast a single buff... The mage somehow seemed to keep himself alive (barely) through the whole affair...

I'm guessing the one playing the rogue either he had no experience playing a rogue, or his spot and search skills were sub par. Even if he wanted to play more of an active backstabbing/fighting role, he could at least call out the traps for us...

Anway... I ended up bowing out once we got to the second half... I was out of charges and potions and knew the second half would be worse than the first...

*sigh* At least I got some favor out of the experience. :)


Ahh the joys of waterworks.. what I'm wondering is how you had, by my count 8 people in the party?

But yeah bleep happens. omg on A Tempest Spine run.. after copious explaining about the Fire and Ice part... (I pulled Ice Flenser while another got the fire) no one seemed to get the concept... well most didn't.. and after the third wipe there (only time I've ever wiped on that part) the leader pm'ed me and said.. I'm outta here, wanna come.. so yeah we dropped and her, a few others and I went on to a nice successful Whisperdoom run.

Aerendil
11-02-2009, 02:43 PM
Some good stories here :)
Last night - VoN 1-4 pre-raid flagging. Made it all the way to VoN4 in record timing. Literally went as smooth as I've seen those parts ever go. Amazing teamwork. Everything fell before us without a challenge.

And then everything fell apart on 4. A nasty fire spray caught us all off-guards and insta-killed 5/6 of us as we were running for the exit (at the end - when it's timered). The remaining survivor had a chance to save the day, but was stuck at the bottom of a pit near the start of the run and, in his words, "I'm having trouble jumping, and I'm naked."

Why naked? Your guess is as good as mine. But it's times like those when you just have to throw in the towel and admit defeat.

roakylamu
11-02-2009, 04:10 PM
bard was level 9 (he knew he was coming in 1 level below my req, but said he's run it alot and wouldn't be a liability) and kept dying from meleeing CR 12-13's (it was on elite).

Yeah, you're a clown. I was the bard and I died once in VON3. Yes, I got 3 hit by an ogre in VON1, but on elite that hurts any soft class. You conveniently forget me finishing the boss troll off (with melee) after it killed you for trying to stand toe to toe with it. You said how much you hate people quitting the chain, we all waited for you to come back.

You've made this thread and whined like a ***** about us, yet it is you who was the only ***** in that group son.

Edit: I've had to come back to shed further light on your incompetence

Why don't you mention how that same group managed to make it through VON2 on elite with no fails and with at least 2 first timers. Oh, and who was the first to die in VON2, yes it was you running into the traps in the maze before the rogue could disarm, the group almost wiped trying to get your stone. Idiot.


Drow kicked our tails in and we wiped on some scorpions and some clerics. I was too exhausted with leading people who obviously didn't care or were just waiting for things on a silver platter.

You ran though the first door (with the force traps) into the drow archers on your own and died, then you went offline in a ragequit tantrum without saying anything after the group wiped on the scorpion ambush. so to repeat that: drow kicked YOUR arse when you ran into the room after the force traps SOLO. I agree the scorpion ambush was too much for us and said as much.


To me, only 2 of us were carrying our own weight in the group, the rest were just piggybacking, so I decided to abandon the whole thing entirely.

You don't even understand what a spellsinger does, you constantly ran off without my song buffs and you never ever waited for hastes like the rest of the group did. I've run and lead that quest chain a lot of times on devrourer (euro) before I migrated here and to give you credit you lead von2 well with the 2 first timers, for the rest of it you suck and deserve to be exhausted, you need to take a look in the mirror before coming onto the forums and blaming everyone else when you died more than anyone else.

Kistilan
11-02-2009, 05:47 PM
Usually if the guy says, "Watch this" and runs off and as he turns the corner his health bar goes from full to empty, you can safely abandon ship.

Strakeln
11-02-2009, 06:09 PM
I usually make it a point to be the last guy off the train when it crashes. Train wrecks are the best challenge you will find in this game, bar none... your chance to do heroic deeds to save the party. When you find a good one, stock up on consumables and hang on tight :D

yodino
11-03-2009, 12:45 AM
Yeah, you're a clown. I was the bard and I died once in VON3. Yes, I got 3 hit by an ogre in VON1, but on elite that hurts any soft class. You conveniently forget me finishing the boss troll off (with melee) after it killed you for trying to stand toe to toe with it. You said how much you hate people quitting the chain, we all waited for you to come back.

You've made this thread and whined like a ***** about us, yet it is you who was the only ***** in that group son.

Edit: I've had to come back to shed further light on your incompetence

Why don't you mention how that same group managed to make it through VON2 on elite with no fails and with at least 2 first timers. Oh, and who was the first to die in VON2, yes it was you running into the traps in the maze before the rogue could disarm, the group almost wiped trying to get your stone. Idiot.

We all know why we died in VoN 2 labyrinth. The trap damage from Update 1 took all of us offguard.


You ran though the first door (with the force traps) into the drow archers on your own and died, then you went offline in a ragequit tantrum without saying anything after the group wiped on the scorpion ambush. so to repeat that: drow kicked YOUR arse when you ran into the room after the force traps SOLO. I agree the scorpion ambush was too much for us and said as much.

Excuse me for saying, but someone opened the door before I could say anything. That left all of us outside the door, and no one inside to kill the spellcasters and archers protected by the force traps. I ran in hoping my hp could save us while everyone else was ducking for cover. My actions were to save the group, not because I was being incompetent. The healer who for the life of me, kept lagging behind and barely healed anyone (I think the ranger did more healing) was hiding behind the rocks again, spazzing out.




You don't even understand what a spellsinger does, you constantly ran off without my song buffs and you never ever waited for hastes like the rest of the group did. I've run and lead that quest chain a lot of times on devrourer (euro) before I migrated here and to give you credit you lead von2 well with the 2 first timers, for the rest of it you suck and deserve to be exhausted, you need to take a look in the mirror before coming onto the forums and blaming everyone else when you died more than anyone else.

Of course I died more than anyone else. When the healer doesn't heal and I'm the only one in Full plate who can function as a tank, then of course I'm gonna die a lot. And yes, I was moving ahead of everyone because I was leading. When I heard you singing, I would run back and pick up the buff.

Crazyfruit
11-03-2009, 07:26 AM
Why naked?

Many types of armor give penalties to the jump skill.

Qzipoun
11-03-2009, 07:35 AM
The remaining survivor had a chance to save the day, but was stuck at the bottom of a pit near the start of the run and, in his words, "I'm having trouble jumping, and I'm naked."

Why naked? Your guess is as good as mine. But it's times like those when you just have to throw in the towel and admit defeat.

Wearing armor decreases your jump, either way, that made me laugh :)

whysper
11-03-2009, 11:24 AM
Abandoning your group is rarely justified, aside from real-life issues. Do not make excuses, and do not just drop without a word though.

Most drops can be avoided with preparation:


I set up a team for VoN attunement (1-4) advertised as L10-13 last night.
:
...(it was on elite)...

This is the mistake: do your flagging runs on Normal. You will find that an advertised Elite completion or Favor run attracts different players.

Funny story: I am pretty sure I saw this LFM and might have joined, but I could not figure out what "attunement" meant before someone else invited me for a Cult run...That part is not really your fault, but illustrates the need for semi-standardised shorthand.


Ranger was using bows instead of twf, ...

Nothing wrong with that unless they suck otherwise. But they might suck TWF too.


FvS couldn't be bothered to heal, kept AFKing and trailing behind. People were dying left and right and he still had 80% of his mana.

Going ahead without a healer on Elite, on the face of it, seems like an invitation for dying left and right.


Judging by our first run, I suggested we complete it on hard because of the quality of people we had. Rest of the group said it was easy and insisted on elite.

Stick to your guns. There is very little I dislike more than hopping between difficulties in a quest chain (I once ended up with a H-N-E-H Delera's run), but if the group is not up for it and there is a pressing reason to finish, kick it down.

Aerendil
11-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Wearing armor decreases your jump, either way, that made me laugh :)

We all had the Jump spell on us, btw ;) Courtesy of the wizard in group.
But maybe he was overburdened and thought removing the armour would have made enough of a difference, I don't know. Funny part was he hadn't said anything until we all wiped :)
Our hopes were dashed at that point, hahaha.

Giddlypip
11-03-2009, 03:08 PM
Mine isn't a story of leaving a group but it is still rather funny...

So we were running the crucible and we had this pally in our group who was obviously inexperience with the quest, which is never a problem for me as long as you follow instructions and what not. Anyway, he wouldn't listen to anything we had to say by voice or by typing (maybe he didn't know english but he didn't tell us anything so who knows?). Basically he ruined the Horn of Instinct more than a couple times, and I believe he was the only person to die. In the end after we jumped across the top of the maze and he fell in a couple times we went on with our lives and finished the quest. Periodically I would check out my map and see him running back and forth in the maze, not saying a word. I was laughing out loud... Reading this all in typing doesn't sound too funny maybe u had to be there... I'm still chuckling inside.

Pip

Juleulven
11-04-2009, 01:57 AM
hmmm TO jump or NOT to jump ...
imho you never jump ship without saying so ... never EVER NO matter how rough it is...

BUT eg a party in XC on normal with 5 people speaking anything BUT english, even tough you told them 10 times please ... no italian ..
having 15 deaths BEFORE you reach the traps
issued 12 advice regarding (dont run around solo, mobs spawn, traps and so forth)
no buffs, again telling cleric: m8 please buff me
caster meleing arcane skellies, no fw, no haste

finally dps drops out... they get against advice.... another cleric .... *sigh*
we ask the cleric: can you make prearea alone ..... answer: yeeees yeees .... ok i tought.... telling group ... dont recall unless all but 1 do ...

1 player recalls at a time ....
after about 31 deaths i wrote:

THIS IS INSANE ..... guys ... good luck you are gonna need it.... I leave!
this i have done a quite a few times....
plainly some people ARE just beyound reach and understanding....

Yesterday evening i joined a XC run with almost same problems ... BUT this bunch actually listenend to advice (i've done XC ALOT and been around DDO for 3years+) so we managed.... but still 21 deaths on an elite lvl 8 (party in average 10) shouldn't really happen imo :-)


Good luck to you all and lets LEAD and ADVICE this newplayers and TRY and give them a warm welcome to the game..
to the children, small gods, allpowerfull-allknowingly players:

go have fun on Orion PLEASE!!!

Twerpp
11-04-2009, 02:32 AM
Some recent experiences...

When they drop like flies and take forever to kill trash mobs, you are in over your head on elite and the people around you dont appear to be geared or playing to elite standards.

When there is a griefer among them purposely making the quest difficult or trying to partywipe.

Solmage
11-07-2009, 12:00 PM
When you're not having fun due to people's incompetence, and it's more aggravating than funny, and you know it will simply not complete, at least not without resources you're not willing to spend, then I think it's time to excuse yourself and leave. But I wouldn't drop without a word.

zavozod
11-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Is the moment you say "why am I still here". Drop grp whenever you feel like it. Heck you can even explain why you are dropping or just drop. I have had nights on this new server where I have dropped more quests then I completed.

bokaboka
11-10-2009, 05:51 PM
Was running Tangleroot and slogged about two-thirds of the way before someone dropped.
Managed to find a replacement and convince the team to get him caught up (the only way I could get someone to join). Someone didn't like that plan and dropped (understandable). Finally find his replacement, so we start running the first step:

"Don't get completion until he gets here"
"Wait here"
"Stop"
"STOP!"
XP awarded
You have left your group.

Bardicwolf
11-11-2009, 01:15 PM
I ran a group into Spawn of Whisperdom... All was going well until we would get wiped out by the damn spider... We were thinking of ways to get her onto a trap that would hurt her dr... No effect.. we had a ranger bouncing everywhere, and it would attract the spider to move off the ambush.. Needless to say it was wipe after wipe... Whisperdoom found our res stone... People pulled her aggro and led her there... It was nasty.. We had people look online to see how to destroy her, but one by one people logged... **Growns**

dsebutchr
11-12-2009, 02:11 PM
I'm p2p. When I am not having fun I leave. This may be frowned upon by some. When they are paying my bill to play I'll care what they think.

It's a game, you are here to enjoy your time playing. If the team you are with is making your time in game not fun, leave them and find another.

I would recommend getting into a guild. If the guild does not have people around your level that you can group with, find another guild.

You do not have to play by anyone's rules but your own. If your not having fun, change your rules.

der_kluge
11-12-2009, 03:16 PM
I ran a group into Spawn of Whisperdom... All was going well until we would get wiped out by the damn spider... We were thinking of ways to get her onto a trap that would hurt her dr... No effect.. we had a ranger bouncing everywhere, and it would attract the spider to move off the ambush.. Needless to say it was wipe after wipe... Whisperdoom found our res stone... People pulled her aggro and led her there... It was nasty.. We had people look online to see how to destroy her, but one by one people logged... **Growns**

I had a similar experience with Whisperdoom not too long ago. Party makeup was perfect - except the sorcerer proclaimed halfway through "I'm not a good sorcerer!" He was all enchantment and illusion - no FW, no haste. Ugh.

At any rate, quest (on hard) went OK, until we got to Whisperdoom. We were pretty depleted on mana, and we got her down to a sliver, but couldn't kill her. Then she regenerates. After that, we tried to regroup and do it again, to no avail. They just couldn't deal out enough damage to kill her.

Add to that - a couple of people kept ninja'ing all the quest items off the ground, despite my yelling to stop doing it!

At least in that particular case, it was more a problem of character incompetence, and not player incompetence!

CrimsonEagle
11-12-2009, 05:09 PM
I usually make it a point to be the last guy off the train when it crashes. Train wrecks are the best challenge you will find in this game, bar none... your chance to do heroic deeds to save the party. When you find a good one, stock up on consumables and hang on tight :D

This is the way I play also. I have even been rolling/rerolling new characters so that I can seek out these great groups:). It is a blast:).

whysper
11-12-2009, 05:36 PM
Is the moment you say "why am I still here". Drop grp whenever you feel like it. Heck you can even explain why you are dropping or just drop. I have had nights on this new server where I have dropped more quests then I completed.

Dropping without an explanation is just pathetic. If you do not have the brass to say the group sucks, you are better off soloing.

Sylvurdragon
11-13-2009, 01:04 PM
I had a similar experience with Whisperdoom not too long ago. Party makeup was perfect - except the sorcerer proclaimed halfway through "I'm not a good sorcerer!" He was all enchantment and illusion - no FW, no haste. Ugh.

At any rate, quest (on hard) went OK, until we got to Whisperdoom. We were pretty depleted on mana, and we got her down to a sliver, but couldn't kill her. Then she regenerates. After that, we tried to regroup and do it again, to no avail. They just couldn't deal out enough damage to kill her.

Add to that - a couple of people kept ninja'ing all the quest items off the ground, despite my yelling to stop doing it!

At least in that particular case, it was more a problem of character incompetence, and not player incompetence!

(spoiler alert!)
I was advised that Whisperdoom is unkillable. You basically have to kite her away from her children in order to destroy the eggs. Thats how we did it the two times. Best way to have the kiter port out after destroying the eggs, IMO, is to run her back to the rest shrine area and close the door before she gets in. That way the last guy can recall out safely :)

Solmage
11-13-2009, 02:33 PM
Dropping without an explanation is just pathetic. If you do not have the brass to say the group sucks, you are better off soloing.

I can agree with this.

whysper
11-13-2009, 06:17 PM
(spoiler alert!)
I was advised that Whisperdoom is unkillable. You basically have to kite her away from her children in order to destroy the eggs. Thats how we did it the two times. Best way to have the kiter port out after destroying the eggs, IMO, is to run her back to the rest shrine area and close the door before she gets in. That way the last guy can recall out safely :)

Also spoiler alert ;)

The description sounds like they were doing the second, standalone Whisperdoom quest.

Gleipner
11-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Dropping without an explanation is just pathetic. If you do not have the brass to say the group sucks, you are better off soloing.

Sometimes words canĀ“t describe how bad some people play so there is times when just teleporting out and dropping is apropriate (without a word).

Sylvurdragon
11-16-2009, 09:39 AM
Also spoiler alert ;)

The description sounds like they were doing the second, standalone Whisperdoom quest.

There's another quest where you can actually kill Whisperdoom? I wasn't aware of that one...where's that at? She deserves a dagger in her side. :-D

Crazyfruit
11-16-2009, 09:41 AM
Spawn of Whisperdoom, northeast side of House P by the teleporter

der_kluge
11-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Had to abandon another group over the weekend. PL INSISTED that we attempt Graverobber on Elite (in fact, he insisted that we do every quest on elite). Now, Graverobber is level 7 on Normal - I was 6th, a few 7th and two 8th level characters. Disaster waiting to happen? I thought so, and said as much - repeatedly. But, the PL insisted that once we got past the sonic stairs trap, it would be easy.

So, the rogue goes in, and promptly dies. the PL, who was a ranger with rogue levels decides he'll go disable the trap. Except that - HE CAN'T EVEN FIND IT!! After a few more deaths, I jumped ship.

This was after we finished Redwillow's ruins on Elite (with the same group) and everyone had multiple deaths. It was pretty epic in its own right, but quite ridiculous.

dsebutchr
11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
So, the rogue goes in, and promptly dies. the PL, who was a ranger with rogue levels decides he'll go disable the trap. Except that - HE CAN'T EVEN FIND IT!! After a few more deaths, I jumped ship.


I'm sorry. This happens to me a lot as well and I feel your pain. Rogue is one of those classes that EVERY new person wants to play and 1 in 100 is actually good at playing.
It takes a lot of thought and preparation to make a "good" rogue if you are not using a pre-created build.

Juleulven
11-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Rogue is one of those classes that EVERY new person wants to play and 1 in 100 is actually good at playing.
It takes a lot of thought and preparation to make a "good" rogue if you are not using a pre-created build.

Well i dont agree .... a good rogue are many things ...
dps, traps or a combo ranged or melee .... but if you define rogue as being able to do all traps on his own lvl elite then its hard making a good one yes...

and still dualclassed rouges (eg wiz 14 rogue 2) can be just as good as rogue20th in the world of traps... tough reflex and such gets nerfed ...

but yes ... rogue skills are very diverse all almost everyone have an seperate opion of how to do what... but im guessing that goes for all classes...

SgtSplacker
11-25-2009, 09:04 AM
I dont see anything wrong with just leaving a regular group. All anyone has to do is just find another group/member. It's bad when you on a long quest line, it's hard to find another player on that same part in a pinch. So i'll bear with a bad group if it's a long quest line and theres some progress being made.

Toy
11-26-2009, 02:27 PM
On the flip side when someone throws down a rage tantrum or just silently drop out those 5 mans can be a lot of fun and I've completed more than a couple.