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Noesis
11-01-2009, 12:50 AM
Hopefully someone who has played a Rogue successfully can comment in here. I started up a Cleric and am enjoying it thus far. But I'd also like to take advantage of building a rogue. I'm not at all familiar with end-game content as I've just started, but I'd like to do it eventually. What Rogue build is generally accepted as an end-game dps build? I see alot of people going Traps/DPS, or Multiclassing. If one of you seasoned vets wouldn't mind shooting a build or one you've used that'd be great. As I've started, I haven't seen too many of them running around. It's not one of those blacklisted classes on DDO i hope.

Noesis
11-01-2009, 02:08 AM
Anybody?

sephiroth1084
11-01-2009, 02:41 AM
There are no blacklisted classes on DDO.

I'm not sure if F2P folks can look in other forums, but if you can go browse through the rogue forums and see what jumps out at you.

DasLurch
11-01-2009, 03:06 AM
Well for starters, all rogues should be able to do traps. It's why you play that class. If you didn't want to do the traps you'd want to play a ranger.

That said, there are lots of great builds that can fill the "Rogue" slot in a party very well. Some of those builds will only have 1 rogue level as well. If you are looking for a very min/ max end game buld that focuses mostly on rogue, I'd reccomend a 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk. Yuo will get maxxed out on your rogue skills, have a better than average attack (and if tempest, which is why you go 6 ranger, faster attack speed too), some feat flexibility, and decent AC. If you want to feel very rogue-ish, try a pure Str based rogue. If you want something with a bit more DPS try a splash rogue (18ranger/ 2rogue). There are so many variations that it's sort of hard to answer your question. My best advice is just to try one out. You will probably need/want to re-roll it a few times, and that is just fine. It takes a while to get a feel for that class.

But since you wanted a very basic end game rogue build, I'll do my best right here...

Human NG Rogue (28 point)
Start stats/Fully buffed at end game (no tomes other than the 1750 used)

STR=14- +3 Level ups, +1 Human adapt enhance, +6 item, +2 tome= 26
DEX=15- +4 enhanc (3 rogue/1 grtr human adapt), +2 level-ups, +5 item= 26
CON=12- +6 item= 18
INT=14 - +6 item = 20
WIS=10 - +6 item = 14
CHA=10- +6 item= 16

If you have access to 32 point builds, add 2 more in Con and 2 more in Cha or 1 in Dex(it will cost 2 build points.)

Your level up's would go into Dex at 4 and 8. Str for 12, 16, and 20.

Feats would look like this...
1=2 Weapon Fighting
1-human bonus= Toughness
3= Exotic Weapon Proficiency[Khopesh]
6= Improved 2 Weapon Fighting
9= Here you have several good choices, like Skill Focus UMD, Iron Will, Combat Expertise, Power Atttack, etc...
10-Rogue class feat= Improved Evasion
12= Improved Critical-Slashing
13-Rogue class feat= Crippling Strike
15= Greater 2 Weapon Fighting
16-Rogue class feat= Skill Mastery
18= here again, you have several choices left open to you like the ones listed at lev9, plus things like Imp Crit-Pierce and maybe even Improved Feint as well.
19-Rogue class feat= Slippery Mind or another Skill Mastery

Skills you will want to max out- UMD, Search, DD, OL, Spot, Jump, and Balance. After that, it's up to you really but most will add to Hide, Move Silent, Diplomacy, Tumble, and Haggle.

Obviously you can mix and match as you would want, but this is a pure STR based Rogue build. Nothing too flashy or auful about it. I hope that helps.

Noctus
11-01-2009, 05:47 AM
Good post from DasLurch. +1 rep for him due to excellent Newbie helping.

sephiroth1084
11-01-2009, 07:16 AM
DasLurch, I think that was a pretty good build, but some things I personally wouldn't recommend.

I'd probably do something like so:

Halfling Chaotic Good Rogue 20 (gives greatest flexibility with possible item choices early in the game, sacrifices a bit of defense by being vulnerable to more attacks later)

Str 13 (if you can afford to buy a +1 tome from the store, start this at 12, and put 2 more points into Con)
Dex 16 (put all level up points here)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10

If you have 32 pt build, raise Str to 14, and put 2 more points into Con or Cha.

1. Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Weapon Finesse
6. Skill Focus: UMD, Toughness, Combat Expertise (swap out later), or Power Attack
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Rogue feat: Improved Evasion
12. Improved Critical: Piercing (rogues get better piercing options than slashing)
13. Rogue feat: Crippling Strike
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
16. Rogue feat: Slippery Mind
18. One of the feats you didn't take at 6 (probably Power Attack)
19. Rogue feat: Skill mastery or Defensive Roll

For skills, you should max out Spot, Search, Dsiable Device and Open Lock on just about any rogue (OL could go half ranks), and make sure to try to acquire the best item for each of these at the levels they become available (usually a bonus equal to your level at each odd level). Not super important if you are running on-level normal and hard content, but if you are doign a lot of elite or other quests over your level, then this is more important.

With your remaining 6 skill points, I'd probably max out Use Magic Device (very useful), Diplomacy (good for shedding aggro so you can continue to get your awesome DPS), and perhaps Haggle (helps making money on a new character). Then, your remaining 3 points per level could be spit amongst Hide, Move Silently, Balance, Jump and Tumble.

Keep in mind, that while many groups will take you along to disarm traps, in any quest where there are sneak attack vulnerable targets, you will have VERY high damage. Again, unless you're running a lot of quests over your level, you shouldn't need to spend any action points on rogue skills.

Places to spend AP:
Rogue Haste Boost (max this!)
Dex enhancements (halfling and rogue)
Sneak Attack Training (should prob max this)
Subtle Backstabbing
Halfling Guile (as much as you can afford while still getting what you need otherwise; requires Halfling Cunning)
Faster Sneaking (if you like stealthing)
Sneak Attack Accuracy
maybe a point into Trap Sense
and consider picking up the rogue prestige enhancement Assassin line

Try to let other, beefier characters get initial aggro on monsters (by letting them hit first), then move in behind the target and unload. Use diplomacy if you get aggro.

Try to find equipment that bolsters your saves or heals/immunizes you from various negative status conditions.

A higher plus bonus on a weapon is more valuable than an extra +1d6 or +2d6 for a looong time. As such, try to get standard +3, +4, +5 rapiers, shortswords and/or daggers early on.

Try to get some decent weapons for fighting the creatures that are immune to sneak attacks (undead, constructs, elementals) so that you don't feel useless in quests where they are prominent.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-01-2009, 02:34 PM
Both of those are solid rogue options. I think if you want to go rogue, pure is the way to go. Previously 6 ranger was seen as an advantage, but with the cap now lifted and L18 PrEs in place, that's no longer the best option.

Personally I'd try to get that CON to 14 but that's just me.

sephiroth1084
11-01-2009, 05:18 PM
Both of those are solid rogue options. I think if you want to go rogue, pure is the way to go. Previously 6 ranger was seen as an advantage, but with the cap now lifted and L18 PrEs in place, that's no longer the best option.

Personally I'd try to get that CON to 14 but that's just me.

Hard on a 28 pt. build, and probably a good idea on a 32, but there are a lot of stats that could go higher--Cha for UMD and Diplo, Con for Fort and HP, Str for damage (especially useful against SA immune foes and high DR types), Wis for Will saves, Int for skills (both more and higher bonuses on trap skills) and Assassinate DC.

DasLurch
11-03-2009, 12:03 AM
DasLurch, I think that was a pretty good build, but some things I personally wouldn't recommend.

I'd probably do something like so:

Halfling Chaotic Good Rogue 20 (gives greatest flexibility with possible item choices early in the game, sacrifices a bit of defense by being vulnerable to more attacks later)

Str 13 (if you can afford to buy a +1 tome from the store, start this at 12, and put 2 more points into Con)
Dex 16 (put all level up points here)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10

If you have 32 pt build, raise Str to 14, and put 2 more points into Con or Cha.

1. Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Weapon Finesse
6. Skill Focus: UMD, Toughness, Combat Expertise (swap out later), or Power Attack
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Rogue feat: Improved Evasion
12. Improved Critical: Piercing (rogues get better piercing options than slashing)
13. Rogue feat: Crippling Strike
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
16. Rogue feat: Slippery Mind
18. One of the feats you didn't take at 6 (probably Power Attack)
19. Rogue feat: Skill mastery or Defensive Roll

For skills, you should max out Spot, Search, Dsiable Device and Open Lock on just about any rogue (OL could go half ranks), and make sure to try to acquire the best item for each of these at the levels they become available (usually a bonus equal to your level at each odd level). Not super important if you are running on-level normal and hard content, but if you are doign a lot of elite or other quests over your level, then this is more important.

With your remaining 6 skill points, I'd probably max out Use Magic Device (very useful), Diplomacy (good for shedding aggro so you can continue to get your awesome DPS), and perhaps Haggle (helps making money on a new character). Then, your remaining 3 points per level could be spit amongst Hide, Move Silently, Balance, Jump and Tumble.

Keep in mind, that while many groups will take you along to disarm traps, in any quest where there are sneak attack vulnerable targets, you will have VERY high damage. Again, unless you're running a lot of quests over your level, you shouldn't need to spend any action points on rogue skills.

Places to spend AP:
Rogue Haste Boost (max this!)
Dex enhancements (halfling and rogue)
Sneak Attack Training (should prob max this)
Subtle Backstabbing
Halfling Guile (as much as you can afford while still getting what you need otherwise; requires Halfling Cunning)
Faster Sneaking (if you like stealthing)
Sneak Attack Accuracy
maybe a point into Trap Sense
and consider picking up the rogue prestige enhancement Assassin line

Try to let other, beefier characters get initial aggro on monsters (by letting them hit first), then move in behind the target and unload. Use diplomacy if you get aggro.

Try to find equipment that bolsters your saves or heals/immunizes you from various negative status conditions.

A higher plus bonus on a weapon is more valuable than an extra +1d6 or +2d6 for a looong time. As such, try to get standard +3, +4, +5 rapiers, shortswords and/or daggers early on.

Try to get some decent weapons for fighting the creatures that are immune to sneak attacks (undead, constructs, elementals) so that you don't feel useless in quests where they are prominent.

I liked yours too, but I've noticed that newwer players don't understand the way that Weapon Finesse works very well. I know I was the same way back when I started too (still noob at heart :) ). That was really why I chose to plan out a Str based build. Plus, if I hadn't built 2 rogues already (both finesse), I'd probably try one like I made. I think 2 Rogues are enough for me though :)