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MrSvinlesha
10-31-2009, 08:01 AM
Howdy.

I'm very new to this game and have been experimenting with a few different classes while trying to figure things out. I've gradually come to the understanding that soloing dungeons requires a character who can fight, heal, and thieve (open locks). A rather tall order.

I've read somewhere that one needs only four levels of open lock to be able to open every lock in the game. This, combined with exceptional skill points available to a rogue at level 1, makes him an attractive starting class. So I was thinking about multi-classing rogue with paladin, or some combination of paladin/fighter or ranger.

Basically I'm looking for a multi-class that will be viable for at least the first 10 levels (if not the whole distance), who can solo effectively and still be an asset in a team. I haven't earned enough favor points to unlock monk yet, and don't really want to buy anything at this point either, so I'm trying for a good 28-point build that will be fun and relatively self-sufficient.

Anyone out there got any advice for me before I go out and accidentally gimp myself into the marble jaws of oblivion?

Istaria1
10-31-2009, 09:22 AM
Hi,

I'm a new player too, so don't take this as gospel, but I am currently running a 28-point version of The Exploiter build, and it's rocking so far. Wand healing is excellent, damage is good, and utility skills are super. Only thing is that AC is a little low (as yet), but this may be down to the fact that (a) I am only level 6, and (b) better gear than I have will make a difference.

Sorry I haven't linked it, but you can find it easily enough with a forum search.

Ist.

strath
10-31-2009, 09:35 AM
Howdy.

I'm very new to this game and have been experimenting with a few different classes while trying to figure things out. I've gradually come to the understanding that soloing dungeons requires a character who can fight, heal, and thieve (open locks). A rather tall order.

I've read somewhere that one needs only four levels of open lock to be able to open every lock in the game. This, combined with exceptional skill points available to a rogue at level 1, makes him an attractive starting class. So I was thinking about multi-classing rogue with paladin, or some combination of paladin/fighter or ranger.

Basically I'm looking for a multi-class that will be viable for at least the first 10 levels (if not the whole distance), who can solo effectively and still be an asset in a team. I haven't earned enough favor points to unlock monk yet, and don't really want to buy anything at this point either, so I'm trying for a good 28-point build that will be fun and relatively self-sufficient.

Anyone out there got any advice for me before I go out and accidentally gimp myself into the marble jaws of oblivion?

I personally like the two combos below for solo . . .

Rogue/Ranger
This is fantastic if you want to multi-class, there is a great deal of stat and play style synergy

Bard/Rogue
Trapskills, high skill points, a fair amount of casting and melee

Don't be too bummed if your solo character has to dump "Open Locks" Many great cleric solos go without and enjoy the game very well.

OR

Play virtual team. A pure rogue teams very well with a merc cleric.

MrSvinlesha
10-31-2009, 09:58 AM
Istaria1:

Can't do Exploiter: don't have monk yet. In fact, what I'm looking for is some kind of near-equivalent build that doesn't use monk.

strath:

Yeah, I might just try that instead. Rogue/Ranger does seem to have a lot of synergy. The only thing missing is healing at low levels, but as you note, one can get around that by bringing a cleric.

sirdanile
10-31-2009, 10:54 AM
Howdy.

I've read somewhere that one needs only four levels of open lock to be able to open every lock in the game.


This is false, you only need to spend 1 point into it while taking a rogue level to be able to take it as a cross-class skill but otherwise only 4 points into this won't get you very far, same for disable device and UMD.

I'm going to suggest bard to you, and also throw out the suggestion that maybe soloing isn't as fun as it would appear.

bards can heal, CC, gain umd and decent amount of skillpoints so you can go 2 Rogue/ 18 Bard (as a final) and get good benefits from both classes, Focus on str for your to-hit and damage and use a 2 handed weapon (go elf and pick falchion is decent)

Make sure you do not start out with a con score lower than 14 (12 for elf)

Carlll
10-31-2009, 11:29 AM
only 4 points into this won't get you very far, same for disable device and UMD.
Recently i opened the chest in Invasion Elite with my Ranger who only has 1 rank in Open Lock. Dont know if other locks are harder to open (i rarely bother) but you certainly dont need to max it.

But you dont need thieving skills to solo.
Very few quests require picking a lock to complete it, and in some others you lose a chest if you cant open the lock. No big deal.
Traps you can just run through, dodging them or simply healing the damage done.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-31-2009, 12:16 PM
on a 28pt build I'd suggest you go with a dwarf pure 2wf ranger. Nice DPS, tough, good self & party buffs, and able to use any cleric wand for self healing.

MrSvinlesha
10-31-2009, 06:04 PM
But what's wrong with the idea of a rogue/paladin combination, exactly? A level of rogue ought to come in handy for virtually any character, and then simply continue as a paladin? I've seen all sorts of other combinations, but not that one -- so I assume there's a reason, but what is it?

MichaelBerea
10-31-2009, 08:38 PM
Building a solo character that can also be decent in a group is hard, especially after level 10 as you said. You need crowd control, self-healing, a way to deal with traps and low-mana dps (in my opinion). And that does not often happen for builds available to new, free players (32 point builds help a lot).

The Axesinger (15 bard / 2 rogue / 3 fighter) can self-heal, pick locks and melee . This is a fun and easy build to play, good in a group all the way to max level, and able to solo at least to 10.

Sorcerer and Cleric are more popular for soloing.


I am really enjoying duoing using the Axesinger that Thanimal put together. Bards get almost complete grouping benefits from just 15 levels so you get a lot of flexibility in the rest of your build. You are basically a melee with incredible buffs that many groups will not leave home without (Warchanter). You do about 80% of the damage of a pure dps, 32 point Monster. In early levels you have an almost untouchable AC and then later you get evasion and crowd control. And the Axesinger does get Lockpick.
Thanimal's Axesinger Bard http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289


A pure Warforged Sorcerer can solo decently because he has the Repair spell to heal himself, great crowd control and decent damage. You can easily do this with a 28 point build. You do not have much melee ability and you will probably not get lockpick. If that is really important you could try a Rogue 2 / Wizard 18 but it is a bit limited.
Tinyelvis' Basic Sorcerer Guide http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205588
Tinyelvis' Guide to Spell DC http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=193600
mediocresurgeon's WF Sorc http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204913
Sigtrent's WF Sorc http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1494201#post1494201
Aspenor's Sorcerer Guide http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175911
Varis' Sorcerer Guide http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=203686


Many people do not recommend Clerics until you have played a long time. Not only are they hard to master, their actions in a party make it or break it.
A Cleric can go melee Battle Cleric if you have 32 point builds purchased (1495 TP). This is the strongest solo build in my opinion. It is pretty powerful in a group too, though the other players have to understand you.
Or you can go Offensive Caster Cleric. You solo decently using crowd control and later Blade Barrier. You are perhaps the single most powerful character in a group.
You could do a 2 Rogue / 18 Cleric (Clogue) and get Lockpick etc. This is even more challenging to pull off than a pure cleric.
Sirgog's Cleric Builds 08/24/08 http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=156683
Sirgog's Cleric Builds 02/19/09 http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=173369
Valiance's Cleric Soloing Advice http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=164323
Stories about life as a solo-capable cleric http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=207309



But what's wrong with the idea of a rogue/paladin combination, exactly? A level of rogue ought to come in handy for virtually any character, and then simply continue as a paladin? I've seen all sorts of other combinations, but not that one -- so I assume there's a reason, but what is it?
You would need 36 or even more attribute points to do it right. Rogues need high dex, con and int. Paladins need high str, con, wis and char.

MrSvinlesha
11-01-2009, 02:46 AM
Michael:

Thanks for all the links! An Axesinger certainly looks interesting, although at the moment I'm not really into playing either a dwarf or a bard. But I'll definitely keep it in mind for future reference.

Also, thanks for you answer about the paladin/rogue build, although had I looked a bit more at the class requirements I might have figured out the problem myself. Bummer, because it think it might have been a fun combo to play, otherwise. I have seen a three-class "Monster" that combines rogue, ranger, and paladin, but I think it requires at least 32 points.

Two things about clerics: 1) I thought they were supposed to be rare among players, but so far in my experience Korthos has been teeming with them. I could hardly find I group that didn't already have a cleric, which sort of cut down on the character's utility as a party member. 2) I played one through to second level, and was already noticing a certain weakness i melee combat, (which might, of course, be more of a sign of my inexperience than a problem intrinsic to clerics per se.) Anyway, I was using the "nuking cleric" template from the forum sticky, and he was doing okay, but somehow, I began to loose enthusiasm for him.

Anyway, as for myself, after all the dithering back and forth, I've decide to make a rogue/ranger and hire a cleric at need, when I can't find a party to play with. That way I have all three functions covered, and since I can't hire rogues, hiring a cleric seems the next best thing.

The beginner's guide to multi-classing here has some great advice. Taking a level of rogue at the beginning of the game, before switching over to ranger, gives all sorts of synergistic perks that the character can take advantage of throughout the entirety of his career -- against which he loses relatively little for that last level of ranger. But I'm wondering if anyone out there has any opinion concerning taking a 2nd level of rogue, and basically trading off the lvl 19 ranger specialities (especially including a final favored enemy) in exchange for 2nd lvl rogue's evasion. Which is most worthwhile in the long run, and if rogue 2/ranger 18 is preferred, when should I take the 2nd lvl of rogue?

DasLurch
11-01-2009, 03:20 AM
But what's wrong with the idea of a rogue/paladin combination, exactly? A level of rogue ought to come in handy for virtually any character, and then simply continue as a paladin? I've seen all sorts of other combinations, but not that one -- so I assume there's a reason, but what is it?

There's nothing WRONG with the idea at all. You'd want to take 2 levels of rogue tho for certain. That grants you the Evasion feat. As far as being the rogue for a group the main problem would be that you will have very few Skill Pooints as a Pally. It's hard to keep those skills up where you will want them for traps and such.

My only advice for trying to play solo is to make sure you can self heal somehow besides using otions. It just makes playing much easier.

Carlll
11-01-2009, 04:20 AM
Which is most worthwhile in the long run, and if rogue 2/ranger 18 is preferred, when should I take the 2nd lvl of rogue?
The second splash level is better spent on Monk. If you dont want to unlock Monk, splashing a level of Fighter gives you a bonus feat. A second level of Rogue gives nothing, except early Evasion which isnt needed.
I would hold off the last splash and take it at a high level, then deciding whether you want Monk, Fighter, Rogue or Ranger for it.
You want to have 18 levels of Ranger though, for Tempest 3.

MrSvinlesha
11-01-2009, 12:06 PM
Hmmm....I think I'll go ahead and buy the monk class. I've been enjoying the game a lot, and ought to give the developers a little cash.

There's a Exploiter build for rogue/monk/ranger, which suggests taking monk as a second level. Since my current character is already 2nd level (rogue 1/ranger 1), where might it be a good idea to take a level as monk? At one of the ranger levels that don't grant any special feats and so on?

Lorien_the_First_One
11-01-2009, 01:32 PM
But what's wrong with the idea of a rogue/paladin combination, exactly? A level of rogue ought to come in handy for virtually any character, and then simply continue as a paladin? I've seen all sorts of other combinations, but not that one -- so I assume there's a reason, but what is it?

1 level of rogue adds very little to most builds except for the relatively minor access to rogue skills and on the down side it reduces the "to it/BAB" by 1 for any melee build. 2 levels of rogue are useful if you have a good reflex save.


2) I played one through to second level, and was already noticing a certain weakness i melee combat, (which might, of course, be more of a sign of my inexperience than a problem intrinsic to clerics per se.) Anyway, I was using the "nuking cleric" template from the forum sticky, and he was doing okay, but somehow, I began to loose enthusiasm for him.

Melee clerics and nuking clerics are built differently.


But I'm wondering if anyone out there has any opinion concerning taking a 2nd level of rogue, and basically trading off the lvl 19 ranger specialities (especially including a final favored enemy) in exchange for 2nd lvl rogue's evasion. Which is most worthwhile in the long run, and if rogue 2/ranger 18 is preferred, when should I take the 2nd lvl of rogue?

Rangers get evasion at L8 for free and thus the 2nd level of rogue offers you nothing except a few skill points. Monk on the other hand would give you a feat and better AC & saves

Rolling20
11-01-2009, 04:25 PM
I personally like the two combos below for solo . . .

Rogue/Ranger
This is fantastic if you want to multi-class, there is a great deal of stat and play style synergy

Bard/Rogue
Trapskills, high skill points, a fair amount of casting and melee

Don't be too bummed if your solo character has to dump "Open Locks" Many great cleric solos go without and enjoy the game very well.

OR

Play virtual team. A pure rogue teams very well with a merc cleric.

Yeah, I beta'd as a pure rogue, now I'm playing a pure cleric and it is kinda sad not being able to open every chest in the game but hey that's what knock scrolls are for amirite? ^_^

Quintun
11-01-2009, 04:35 PM
You would need 36 or even more attribute points to do it right. Rogues need high dex, con and int. Paladins need high str, con, wis and char.


It will not take 36 stat points.

Rogue does not need high dex, especially if just splashing it. Paladin does not need high Wisdom. They need enough to cast level 4 spells or 14 Wisdom. Easily reachable even starting at 8 or 10.

You could even go no strength high dex and weapon finesse(I do not recommend it though)

MrSvinlesha
11-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Yeah, you've all sold me on the idea of a level of monk, but when should I insert it? I'm 1 rogue 1 ranger now, and my next level, if I take ranger, will give me TWF; I'm thinking about taking EW: Khopesh as a feat. I figure I ought to wait until lvl 4 to take monk 1; or should I go ahead and bite the bullet now, before continuing up the ranger line?

Or maybe it doesn't really matter?

Carlll
11-02-2009, 08:04 AM
It doesnt really matter.
The Wisdom bonus to AC will only be helpful at higher levels. At lower levels, light armor will do fine and you dont get the Wisdom bonus while wearing armor. Calculate some times when you would be better off to dump the armor and go with robes. This depends on your Wisdom modifier of course; Mage Armor potions are really cheap and they give you +4 Armor AC, so thats the *minimum* armor you get while being unarmored. Later you find better stuff. Eventually with the best gear, unarmored gives higher AC than light armor even without the Wisdom bonus so then it's clear what to use.

Monk also gives you a bonus feat - you'll likely want to choose Toughness or Power Attack for that, depending on which you have already taken with a normal feat - Toughness is good to have early for a chunk of extra hitpoints (from the enhancement), Power Attack you only really need at higher levels.

I would go Ranger 6 for Tempest 1 and some time then splash the Monk level. But you can wait till high level really, once you are better off for AC to dump your armor, then is the time to splash the Monk. But taken it earlier doesnt hurt either.

MichaelBerea
11-02-2009, 01:06 PM
18 ranger / 1 monk / 1 rogue looks like a great build. The Exploiter (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687) and its Yarhovah (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192446) variant are 32 point builds though and tough to do with 28. I might go 16/16/12/8/12/8. The alternative is to reduce strength by 1 and add 2 to either constitution or wisdom.

If you are using the Exploiter template note that you need 17 dexterity if you want Greater Two Weapon Fighting. This is given at Ranger level 11 (total level 13). The 17 Dexterity requirement does not include gear and enchancements. It only includes your starting points, level up points (which should go to strength) and tomes. So you need to start at 16 dexterity and buy a +1 tome or wait on GTWF until you can get a +2 tome ingame.

With an 8 intellect consider the skills listed on the Yarhovah (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192446) build as a starting point (Balance, UMD, Concentration with a little Jump). Swap in Lock Pick for Concentration if you like.

Because it was not obvious to me on my first Ranger I want to mention that your goal is to get the Tempest Prestige Enhancement by Ranger level 6 (total level 8). This means you need the feats Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack by then. Otherwise I would probably not take those feats but the Prestige Enhancement is worth it.

If I were a human and had gone rogue 1 then ranger 1 I would take monk at level 3. An extra feat is a big help early on. I would grab the power attack and khopesh feats. I would keep power attack turned on and use a shield until level 5 or 6. At that point with the extra Base Attack Bonus and +4 weapons you miss a lot less when dual wielding. The AC and DR from a shield is also incredibly helpful in the first 5-6 levels.