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Saavedra
10-30-2009, 07:02 PM
I intend on remaining 100% F2P, and I have a few questions I can't find an answer for. I don't have anything unlocked so I have 28 point builds, no access to drow, wf, monk, etc.

I was thinking of favor grinding to buy adventure packs, and the 2 builds and I'm considering (and will probably try both on different servers) are the exploiter ranger build as mentioned in the "100% F2P guide" and a battle cleric, and I have questions on each of these builds. I also have questions about a third build, the DR tank, because it sounds like fun but I can't find much information on it, although I realize it probably wouldn't be as good at favor.

So for the battle cleric, I wanted to say that I've read a lot of guides for battle cleric builds, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for, so I decided to make my own build, but I ran into some trouble. I want to maximize my combat stats and use CHA as a dump stat - basically sacrifice some cleric ability to be able to hit and do damage in melee. So I opened up the character builder and tried to go THF, I read that TWF is difficult to do well with a cleric (Re: Sigtrent's Amish Battle Cleric in his 'Request a build' thread) so THF sounds like a logical choice, but then I realized I didn't have proficiencies to wield anything decent 2 handed. So then I think, well ok, let's start with a level of fighter. If I start with a dwarf fighter and then do the rest Cleric, that lets me start by taking both toughness and THF feats so I can take dwarven toughness and the the first fighter toughness, then I use the rest of my enhancements for healing and clericy stuff, and feats go to THF chain and stats go to strength. Starting stats of something like 16 str 14 dex 16 con 14 wis 8 int 6 cha, which is 28 points if I remember correctly. So I'm wondering: 1.) Is this a good idea to begin with? and 2.) am I better off taking a second level of fighter for the extra feat and earlier BAB to help me get GTHF?

The next build I wanted to ask about is the exploiter ranger build. The 100% F2P guide does a great job of explaining how to do it, really my only question is: Why is it called "exploiter"? That's pretty much it :D

I also wanted to ask about a DR tank. I've seen lots of threads about tanks, and I've seen DR tanks mentioned, but I've never seen a build for one. The closest I've seen is a build for an intimi-barb who wears lots of guards and plans to get hit. I'm wondering how I can maximize my DR, and if it is practical to try to do so on a F2P account. I imagine I'd want to go dwarf barb for dwarf hp and barb DR, but maybe barb DR doesn't stack with DR from other sources so a fighter would be better? I'm guessing this is a very gear dependant build, so perhaps it's out of my reach, but I think it would be fun if I could make it work and not be gimped.

If you've made it this far, please feel free to bump... er I mean, take the opportunity to show everyone your perseverance by posting a reply. ;) I appreciate any help I can get. Thanks!

Artis_Resistance
10-30-2009, 09:08 PM
Your Battle Cleric is going to want a decent amount of Wisdom for spell casting purposes.

Saavedra
10-30-2009, 09:45 PM
I completely forgot to list the wisdom trait, thank you. I updated the post. I was planning on starting with 14 wis and putting my level up points into str.

DasLurch
10-31-2009, 12:46 AM
It's called the Exploiter because it takes great advantages of the class bonuses. Faster attack speed, full UMD, higher than most AC, ability to self heal and buff, and decent HP too. It looks like a cheat, but it's not.

That's the best explaination i can give you. I don't know who coined the name, but it is appropriate.

Saavedra
10-31-2009, 12:40 PM
I don't know, it sounds like sortof an ordinary ranger just min maxed a bit to do whatever a ranger does, at least the way you describe it. It doesn't sound exploity at all, to me.

BLAKROC
10-31-2009, 12:47 PM
the name was coined by the builder. :D and it's more than just a ranger think of it as a better ranger:D

for your bc take cleric first level then fighter for second level for the access to martial weapons and a feat then rest of levels cleric

Perspicacity
10-31-2009, 01:03 PM
If you go with the Battle cleric make sure you advertise yourself as such. Since your a cleric people will assume you are (and will try to recruit you as) a healer then when you don't heal because your busy fighting they will yell at your for "not doing your job" and you'll get the boot. Its a shame that the Battle cleric gets so neglected as they can be quite good (and fun) if well built.

ReaperAlexEU
10-31-2009, 02:43 PM
interested in a DR tank eh? try my gimp :)

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325391

its very gear light, at lvl17 my tanking comes from a +5 heavy shield! there is a very tasty raid shield to aim for, but my dorf has made it to lvl17 without needing it. the only rare toy he has is a shield to kill undead with.

you will have to tweak the build a bit, its quite old and the crit rage enhancement no longer exists.

its also a 32 point build, important bits are STR and CON which should work with a 28 pointer.

it is in all respects a poor man's tank, but with all the flaws its perfectly functional :)

Saavedra
10-31-2009, 05:54 PM
ReaperAlexEU - That build is basically exactly what I'm thinking of. Unfortunately, it is well beyond my capabilities - I suppose I should just shelve the idea until I get enough favor for a 32 point build and +2 tome, and can run some equipment. I need to learn how to craft guards items, too, I suppose.

Perspicacity - I agree with you, and I notice that you say it has to be "well built" which is why I want so much feedback on a battle cleric. My problem is that the builds I've seen are too "clericy" and not "fighty" enough. I want to take almost all cleric levels, but be more of a fighter. I want to use divine enhancements to turn turning attempts into damage (since cha is a dump stat) and make good use of all of the non offensive cleric spells (since DCs will suck with only wis of 14 which probably won't get enhanced higher than 16-18 for a long while). I want to be able to not miss, and do damage. I really think that it sounds weird to have a mostly fighter/kinda cleric who takes 1 (or maybe 2) levels of fighter and 18-19 of cleric, but I really think it will work.

Also: why Cleric at 1 instead of fighter at 1? I was thinking of taking fighter at 1 I could use a two handed weapon right away (although it's easy enough to get to 2 with your free wand of eternal lousy light sparks) but I guess I was thinking I'd care more about balance than concentration. Now that I think about it, I honestly can't think of much of a difference either way. Either way I would take the toughness feat at 1 so I could start taking dwarven toughness right away, and THF would come with the first fighter feat. Maybe I should just start with whichever one gives more skill points?

ReaperAlexEU
10-31-2009, 06:22 PM
its actually very light on the gear:

Helm: Minos Legens you get this from doing rares in the orchard of the macarbe, doesnt take too long to collect the bits
Necklace: CON 6 you can get a +6 stat item quite happily when you get to the higher levels
Trinket: Voice of the master/mummified bat voice is a static reward for delerah's, the bat is a semi-static reward for cult of the 6 quest chain. neither are raid items.
Cloak: CHA 5 Resistance 2 keeping an eye on the auction house will get you this
Belt: Greater False Life/Planar Gird for Clicky GFL is another AH jobbie, planar gird comes from xorian cypher
Hot Swap Ring: Proof Against Poison/UWA/Clicky of Restore all generic loot or from AH
Ring: Intimidate +11 easy to get 10ish on a ring from AH, costs a lot more to go above that
Gloves: DEX 6/Linen Hand Wraps/Clicky of Restore dex is another easy one, linen is from delerah's, restore is another AH jobbie[i]
Boots: Striding 25% [i]AH again
Bracers: STR 6 AH once more, and easy to find
Goggles: Blindness Immunity with Spot AH jobbie again
“Armour”: Acid Guard robe/outfit / Another robe/outfit with no guard for don’t kill quests more time spent checking AH for nice bargains

all of that stuff you will easily get as you level up, it may look far away right now, but even the most casual of gamers can get +6 stat items. it only get tough when you want a stat on an odd item type. there is no rare raid loot on that list, its all from normal quests, ones you'll want to save up and buy too. delerah's is a great low-mid lvl quest chain and the voice gives 5% bonus to exp for each quest (equip before completion, no need to have it on all the time). the necro is worth getting for mino's helm alone, every front liner need heavy fort, and mino's comes bundled with 20 hit points too! the bat is nice, but yu can get a feather fall item on another slot. i have one char that had lvl7 FF boots till lvl20!

the guard items i have are the trashy old ones on randomised loot, when i started fump the fancy ones from the shroud raid didnt exist.

the actual DR part of the tank only needs a +5 heavy shield, and those are very cheap.

the two +1 tomes arn't must haves and the +2 tome is free when you get 1750 favour (and unlock 32 point builds).

the ward of undead is a very nice toy, it lets you shield bash any undead (got ghost touch) and also trolls as the fire stops them regenerating. its a very nice toy to have, but not a must have. very few people shield bash a troll! i think its of most use vs wraiths as shield blocking makes you immune to their special attacks.

Saavedra
10-31-2009, 07:59 PM
So maybe it's doable as soon as I have 1750 favor. Hopefully in the process I get enough TP to buy an adventure pack. I know you mentioned Delera's, although I wanted to save up for the Gianthold one.

I'm also thinking that the nice thing is if I don't have the equipment I need that I'm not happy with his tanking ability, I could always run him as dps until I find what I want. A barb is still a barb, after all. He won't do as much damage without the THF chain, but I really don't understand how glancing blows work, anyway. :)

ReaperAlexEU
11-01-2009, 04:15 AM
18 STR and 18 CON leaves a 28pt build 2 points spare, not entirely sure where you'd put them but thats common advice for a 28pt barb anyway.

gianthold would indeed be a great first buy, delerah's can wait. mino's helm is far more important, however there may be a free alternative...

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Quest:A_Relic_of_a_Sovereign_Past

in that quest there is a side quest to gather adamantium ore. with that ore you can get a heavy fort necky crafted for you. there are 15 ore each run and you need 10 ore for the necky, its lvl9. you also don't need to complete the quest so you can do ore runs until the whole party has enough. the ore works like a normal quest item, first player to pick it up gets it. i've not had a problem with players hoarding the ore, in fact once its all split up and someone is getting close the older players tend to rush off to their bank to give the player the last few bits.

you will probably want to get the vale/shroud after gianthold so mino's will have to wait even longer, which makes finding a CON item tricky. you should be able to find CON on a ring, +3 or +4 will be fine and cheap enough, the +6 however may have to wait till you can get the necropolis.

i tanked through the early game and into gianthold. some clerics in the gianthold preferred me to go damage and that worked well most of the time. i did have a situation in the maze of madness (gianthold Q) where the main tank was getting battered, so i whipped my shield out and took aggro off him. other than that i've been going damage more often than not. it was a fun trick to start with just takes too long to kill things :). it is very nice to have the tanking on standby in case a party suddenly falls apart. unlike most barbs who go down when the healer goes down the DR tanking barb can turtle up and ride the storm out. late in the game, like in the vale, there will be other characters who can raise dead through UMD, so when the cleric dies you can grab aggro and hope someone has a raise dead scroll up their sleeves.

DPS wise he will have maxed STR and quite a few of the damage enhancements, just not all of them. he wont be bad at DPS, just not maxed out. the damage also comes in much later as you don't get power attack till lvl12!

the bottom line of this build is all the tanking comes from level up choices, not rare gear. i built him when i wanted to make a more durable character without having to do all the grinding for AC. i think he's turned out very well, and its funny being a barbarian with a shield :).