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View Full Version : Master theives tool



Kalari
10-30-2009, 03:11 PM
Ive said it before and I will keep saying it why is it that a high level rogue cannot have a master craft tool to use for trapsmithing? Its become apparent that the powers that be believe stacks of 50 theives tools is acceptable but to me a rogue should have their own master kit that is usable for most rogue situations. I could go off on other tangents I think the class should have and dont get me started on the capstone again. But seriously this is a petition to add an named item in game or let us bloody craft the darn things so that we dont have to worry about the stacks of 50 anymore.

My idea for this is simple either a named item such as "Kit of the nimble master" Trinket:

This small box contains all the tools necessary for a crafty rogue to get their job done. When equipped it gives the user the ability to open locks and disable traps with an inherit +6 bonus to skills.

Of course like most items it could take damage but if you make it bound it can be repaired. And it should be for rogues that get up there in levels I suppose.

Or let us put a crafted item into the tables that can be either a trinket, gloves or goggle set that provide the same bonus.

Either way I think its about darn time rogues get something that helps them stand out when it comes to trap smithing.

SniptheShadow
10-31-2009, 12:57 AM
/signed.

I think NWN had a thing called a Skeleton Key. Once you found that baby, thieves tools in bulk (taking up valuable inventory slots) were a thing of the past.

It would be nice to have something like that here.

Snip

Arianrhod
10-31-2009, 08:11 AM
/signed.

I think NWN had a thing called a Skeleton Key. Once you found that baby, thieves tools in bulk (taking up valuable inventory slots) were a thing of the past.

It would be nice to have something like that here.

Snip

Well, we do have a Skeleton Key, but it's a +7 OL trinket, and you still need tools when you use it ;)

Maxelcat
10-31-2009, 09:52 AM
/signed

i don't understand why thieves tools are a consumable... you get a good set and you keep that good set till you upgrade it.

as a consumable its like in just jamming in stuff to make the lock/trap open. If im just breaking it i could do that with a hammer and a screw driver/chisel and still be able to use the hammer and [object] again later.

Zenako
10-31-2009, 10:00 AM
Well you see...the animation does not have us rogues also removing the tools after we disable or pick the lock. Imagine if they had a second phase to recover the tool that was used.

Lock picks do - ahem - wear out with use, as some of my college mechanically inclined friends could attest. (one gentleman was so good the campus police would often seek him out to help with stubborn locks, which we all found kinda amusing.) tech geeks with skills and time on their hands can be very clever/dangerous.

Hendrik
10-31-2009, 10:06 AM
I like the general idea of a 'magical' set of picks.

Maybe a small stackable bonus to skills and a % chance to not loose a pick?

Arianrhod
10-31-2009, 10:12 AM
I like the general idea of a 'magical' set of picks.

Maybe a small stackable bonus to skills and a % chance to not loose a pick?

Hehe...the Free Agents could sell 75% reusable picks, just like Deneith does with arrows ;)

Grimgore
10-31-2009, 10:24 AM
Maybe even an end reward type that allows you x# of uses per day.

Zenako
10-31-2009, 10:27 AM
Hehe...the Free Agents could sell 75% reusable picks, just like Deneith does with arrows ;)

Or we could just find a way to make Lockpicks Stack like Spell Ingredients and go to stacks up to 1000 high. That would make more sense and probably be easier to code. Would make the issue almost moot, if I could stack 500 of them, never gonna run out, while a stack limit of 50 makes it more likely, unless you devote even more precious pack space to multiple stacks.

Hendrik
10-31-2009, 01:28 PM
Hehe...the Free Agents could sell 75% reusable picks, just like Deneith does with arrows ;)

I was thinking along those lines as well.

Yurtrus
10-31-2009, 01:40 PM
If you are using that many picks you are a lousy rouge. If you don't have enough inventory as a rogue to carry 100 picks at a time well then you have problems. I have almost 2000 +5 theives tools in the bank.. I do a quest or 30 and if I am almost out of 1 set I go to the bank and put another set in my inventory.. I always have at least a 100 on me.. What is the problem? Too much trouble to go to the bank after a quest and get some more? or is it that you have to remember something? I hate lazy people.. Not saying you are lazy.. just sayin...

Granted a nice if you have 2800 favor you can get the everlasting +6 thieves tool kit, well that would be great.. :D

Ironsolid
10-31-2009, 01:48 PM
Hey Gais! Lets Make It So People Dont Have To Face A Challenge When Disabling Dem Traps. My Inventary Is Cluttered.....



Hralp!!! I Cast Firewallz Too

Bradik_Losdar
10-31-2009, 02:10 PM
Gah! You people just don't get it do you.

Kalari has made an EXCELLENT suggestion here. Do fighters have to carry around stacks and stacks of 50 swords, because everytime they swing they break one? No, of course not.

All she is saying is why not have a high level treasure that can replace the annoying need for having to carry around these stacks or stockpiling them (2000 Yurtus? Really?!).

And on a side note, I'll never understand why people insist on "x uses per day, or %75 returning" or whatever. Is it really that overpowering that limits must be set on it? I'd say a set of good thieves tools would be on par with a Bloodstone. Yet I don't see any restrictions to the number of uses a day it gets. See what I mean?

A set of reuseable master thieves tools is a GREAT idea. Now if people could only think outside the box.... :rolleyes:

Yurtrus
10-31-2009, 02:14 PM
1850 to be exact on my bank toon ... and another 650 in my rogues bank slot. They are not that hard to come by.. but you are correct.. being able to have one kit for high level reward would be nice.. as I stated.. :D Not sure what the thinking is here, but people should be thinking that the 50 on the tools is more of a wear then it is 50 individual tool sets. So just like a weapon the tools wear out. However, our weapons can be repaired.. So what if we had the ability to bind and attune our thieves tool and as long as we repaired them they would never wear out? :D

Kalari
10-31-2009, 02:17 PM
Thanks Bradik

You know I was kinda expecting that argument because simple logic is missed on some people. It makes no sense to fill up my bank with stacks of breakable theives tools on a high level rogue just on the oft chance I need to remember to carry several sets of 50 on me. No I hardly run out of tools especially at high levels because im smart enough to make sure I have at least 2-3 full stacks of 50 on me but just like hating to have a whole page of components on my casters it does get annoying at times to have to carry extra tools when they could use the suggestion I put forth or even the favor suggestion for the more durable thieves tools (nice idea Arianrhod)

Either way nice way to turn my thread into lets mock rogues who dont want to carry a bunch of stuff. I really appreciate it...

/sigh

Yurtrus
10-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Kalari,

No one is mocking you.. I am a rogue.. In fact the idea you set forth is great one.. what people are addressing is that as it is currently we have never had any problem with it. Why change it if it works? You are requesting this merely out of convenience and not making a valid reason why it should change other then to make your life easier, and clear up 1 inventory slot.

Again, I love the idea.. but is it really worth the consideration by the developers?

Kalari
10-31-2009, 02:32 PM
I look at it this way Yurtus yes it can be viewed as something for convenience but it also make sense.

The game has basically revolved rogues around getting traps, even those who go out to be assassins are almost expected due to the little icon to be at least decent at getting traps down.

We cant pick pocket, we cant even set our own traps :( The capstone to me is still weak I just look at it this way give rogue something that they can say hey at least we have this. Heck they even have items in the ddo store now (albeit pricey) where players without rogue skills can unlock chest and doors that can be pickable. And many people will still run threw traps unless on elite rather then wait for a rogue to get it down. And everyone has had a moment where they did not check and ran out of tools and had to be that guy/gal that spurred the "aww man" moment.

So Im looking at this idea not only for convenience but for a better playing experience for anyone who wants to trapsmith. There are plenty of people who take the path to do so and this would benefit them to.

Zenako
10-31-2009, 04:23 PM
Kalari,

No one is mocking you.. I am a rogue.. In fact the idea you set forth is great one.. what people are addressing is that as it is currently we have never had any problem with it. Why change it if it works? You are requesting this merely out of convenience and not making a valid reason why it should change other then to make your life easier, and clear up 1 inventory slot.

Again, I love the idea.. but is it really worth the consideration by the developers?

Well in actual fact however, it is NOT just 1 inventory slot, but perhaps 2 or 3, and then the half page or more of bank space allocated to extra tools. Now I know you can pretty much pick up more anytime you want from the AH, except when you really seem to need them. It was like getting quivers for archers. Now I have 2 or 3 spots in the bank for wide quivers to store all those nice slaying arrows instead of using up most of a bank page or more with them. With the continual influx of different collectibles and things (that just do not go into bags or whatnot) (the new Mindsunder items can take up to 8 or more spots themselves) we can really use those extra spaces for something that should either stack higher, or be non-consumable.

Lithic
10-31-2009, 04:34 PM
This is hardly necessary. +5 tools are not only cheap and plentiful, but a stack of 50 lasts forever at end game (they provide a +7 to OL and DD btw, one more than your suggested trinket). My own rogue keeps 2 sets of 50, and replenishes them whenever I pull another stack of 50, and I doubt that I have touched the second set in a year or more.

Also keep in mind that tools get used much more at low to mid levels. Once you hit gianthold, the traps are fewer, or more easily avoided. Plus noone cares about +15% exp once you hit cap.

Kalari
10-31-2009, 10:30 PM
So because its easy to find the breakable theives tools and some rogues dont touch them because hey who cares about extra exp for getting down traps their shouldnt be a permenant tool offered?

So we should ignore that the scale of traps in many quests have gone up and on elite can kill people?

We should also not consider that there are times even with the best of us that we think their is a stack or two in our already cluttered inventory only to have that one moment where we ran out.

I did not suggest a trinket more powerful then the +5 stack set because I figured not going overboard would be a good way to get my idea noticed. I dont think a permanent tool should be too powerful just provide the convienence of having one item (that can take damage and need repair) to do what stacks of 50 does.

Agree or dont agree I like the idea of a craftable tool or a named item that does the same thing and still fail to see how because some people do not bother with traps on their rogues anymore it could not help those who do like to trapsmith. Is it something the devs should waste time on? I thought about that question after I got home tonight. And you know what thats not my call, I like the idea if im lucky maybe someone up there might though I know its a long shot. I can no more tell anyone what a dev should spend their time on more then anyone else trolling these forums.

Ive been asked to explain why the developers should waste their time on this, I cant give any answer besides its something I like to see. Im honest enough to admit it I think it would help those of us who like carrying less inventory as well. So those of you who think its a waste of time thats fair, I put my idea forth and that is all I can do.

IronAngel
10-31-2009, 10:35 PM
Gah! You people just don't get it do you.

Kalari has made an EXCELLENT suggestion here. Do fighters have to carry around stacks and stacks of 50 swords, because everytime they swing they break one? No, of course not.

I have heard several fighter types and others complain about they need for more inventory space because they have 50 weapon sets, 1 for every monster.

This of course is stupid. USE THE BANK!!!! :)

IronAngel
10-31-2009, 10:40 PM
If you are using that many picks you are a lousy rouge. If you don't have enough inventory as a rogue to carry 100 picks at a time well then you have problems. I have almost 2000 +5 theives tools in the bank.. I do a quest or 30 and if I am almost out of 1 set I go to the bank and put another set in my inventory.. I always have at least a 100 on me.. What is the problem? Too much trouble to go to the bank after a quest and get some more? or is it that you have to remember something? I hate lazy people.. Not saying you are lazy.. just sayin...

Granted a nice if you have 2800 favor you can get the everlasting +6 thieves tool kit, well that would be great.. :D

You really use 40 bank slots just for tools????

JOTMON
11-02-2009, 07:45 AM
A reusable thieves tool 20xclickie as a reward from the free agents, escalates as favor is gained, instead of getting access to purchasing bound thieves tools from the vendor next to him.

Add an enhancement chain under the Way of the Mechanic Enhancement line to lockpick without tools.

Yurtrus
11-02-2009, 07:58 AM
You really use 40 bank slots just for tools????

After being here since the start you roll quite a few toons..

1 toon = shields, cloaks, docents, outfits, etc..
1 toon = all jewelery items, neck, rings, trinkets, boots, helms
1 toon = all weapons for all levels

each toon can hold 130 items, that is 360 slots just on those 3, plus the share slot of 20, plus the toons I use and their 260 slots, plus a couple others.. Plenty of room for storage here..

Unless they come out with a new class, like druids or half orc, etc.. I don't plan on rolling another toon. The ones I have, have been perfected over many years.. I still have plenty of space to spare and even have 1 toon designated as our ( wife and I ) collectibles toon.. With thousands of collectables collected over that time..

The only thing the bank slots are used for is bound items, essences and tomes..

Once you have been here long enough and acquired most +5 of the best weapons and have what is seemingly the best loot for your toon, you don't need the space any more..

pumagirl418
11-02-2009, 08:14 AM
/yesssss!

Ive said it before and I will keep saying it why is it that a high level rogue cannot have a master craft tool to use for trapsmithing? Its become apparent that the powers that be believe stacks of 50 theives tools is acceptable but to me a rogue should have their own master kit that is usable for most rogue situations. I could go off on other tangents I think the class should have and dont get me started on the capstone again. But seriously this is a petition to add an named item in game or let us bloody craft the darn things so that we dont have to worry about the stacks of 50 anymore.

My idea for this is simple either a named item such as "Kit of the nimble master" Trinket:

This small box contains all the tools necessary for a crafty rogue to get their job done. When equipped it gives the user the ability to open locks and disable traps with an inherit +6 bonus to skills.

Of course like most items it could take damage but if you make it bound it can be repaired. And it should be for rogues that get up there in levels I suppose.

Or let us put a crafted item into the tables that can be either a trinket, gloves or goggle set that provide the same bonus.

Either way I think its about darn time rogues get something that helps them stand out when it comes to trap smithing.

Tharlak
11-02-2009, 08:15 AM
/signed.

Inventory management as a whole is a pain in the rear. Storing stacks (in your backpack or your bank) of thieves tool is frustrating.

I am for anything that frees up storage space and minimizes the amount of effort it takes to manage inventory in the game. I like the unbreakable thieves tool idea best, but stacks of 1000 would work too.

VonBek
11-02-2009, 08:16 AM
Sure, you can find, buy, and stockpile, but I think I'd prefer to see some of the imagination shown here realized in game.

75-50% "returning", or "durable" as a purchasable favor item,
x/day clicky,
stacking changes or containers

These seem in keeping with other item systems already in game and serve a function, while adding goals and flavor.

/signed