PDA

View Full Version : Mixed Trap DCs (Path of Inspiration, etc)



Angelus_dead
10-30-2009, 01:43 AM
Here's an old suggestion that is brought to mind by a spate of complaints about the new level 18 Path of Inspiration quests. Players dislike seeing an elite trap do 975 damage, for various reasons including verisimilitude and devaluing of certain class features. But it's understandable why the devs made the numbers so high: A level 18 quest set to elite has a target difficulty 28, and for a trap to threaten a level 28 fighter would need that amount of damage.

The suggestions:
Part 1: When designing traps to place in quests, sometimes make "multiple DC" traps, which might be implemented as several traps superimposed on each other, or as a single trap object which makes several attacks at different powers.

For example, suppose the normal-mode spike traps in Shipwrecked Spy are currently DC 35 damage 200. An alternative would be for each clump of spikes to hit you twice for 50 DC 40 and 150 DC 30. This would mean that someone with low reflex would usually take the same damage as now, and a rogue with excellent saves would usually take 0 just like now. But characters in between would take a more moderate damage that better tracks with their actual reflex and evasion, instead of just 2 or 3 possibilities: full 200, half 100, or zero.

Part 2: Allow the quest designers to mark some traps (and other special threats) as "safe saves" or "hazardous saves". Those conditions override the normal rules for automatic results on a natural 1 or 20. A portion of a trap marked as 950 damage with a "save" reflex DC 40 would mean that characters with a reflex of 39 or better would always pass the save. (Hazardous means the opposite and denies success on a natural 20)

To see how this would help gameplay, consider a rogue in elite Dream of Jeets. The with a reflex of 45-50 you'll only fail the save on a natural 1, which means it is probably safe for you to run right through the tunnel. But in the 1% of times you do fail, you're instantly reduced to giblets, which feels incongruous and isn't much fun. But if it were changed so the trap had multiple DC components and one of them was safe, it would be possible for a rogue to take moderate damage from bad luck, and for other characters to be scared to get close, but without the rogue spontaneously exploding 5% of the time.

Part 3: Allow some trap boxes to have multple disable DCs. This could be done either with two boxes for one trap, or by changing the programming to allow the box itself to be multiplexed. If a Disable Device check beats the high DC on the control box, then all of the associated spikes/blades retract and turns off. But if you only pass a lower DC, then only part of the trap turns off: the highest DC elements are deactivated, but the less-dangerous low DC ones stay live. (The box would only explode by a critical fail against the low DC, and a successful attempt on the low DC would allow further Disable tries until the high DC passes)

Among other effects, this would make the Mechanic specialty more attractive, because there would be room for designers to use high trap DCs without excluding other rogue builds from having effectiveness against the trap. Instead of trap disabling being pass/fail with 20 points of meaningful range, the d20 can be widened with room for differentiation between characters.

Xyfiel
10-30-2009, 02:41 AM
Have you seen traps thruout stormreach? Rainbow hard last pit trap=300+ One shotted 5 of 6 players in group trying to get key after the guy with it fell in. We finally quit with 90+% of quest complete. Monastery Elite=803, my cleric/monk/rogue searched the box, nudged over to disarm it, and one blade got me. The box was in the trap, therefore making it impossible to disarm except by a frenzied rogue splash barb or a super hp rogue. I don't mind harder, but this is a bit much.

QuantumFX
10-30-2009, 03:13 AM
Have you seen traps thruout stormreach? Rainbow hard last pit trap=300+ One shotted 5 of 6 players in group trying to get key after the guy with it fell in. We finally quit with 90+% of quest complete. Monastery Elite=803, my cleric/monk/rogue searched the box, nudged over to disarm it, and one blade got me. The box was in the trap, therefore making it impossible to disarm except by a frenzied rogue splash barb or a super hp rogue. I don't mind harder, but this is a bit much.

Well he said “etc” in the thread title.

And A_D I like the overall idea. For part 3 you could also add in something for the mechanic specialty that “debuffs” traps that they weren’t able to completely disable. Either a debuff to the remaining trap DC or a reduction of the damage output. (I only suggest this because one of the problems with super high DCs is that a rogue build tends to have to gimp itself to equal the effectiveness of 2 Rogue/1X Caster builds.)

Mernom
05-19-2012, 05:58 AM
good ideas,good ideas indeed.