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LumLevits
10-29-2009, 01:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm 40 and have been playing D+D all my life including every computerized game I can get my hands on. Anyway, I actually played DDO when it first came out, but I never got my free month of play and stopped playing. Well, I am back and loving all the changes they made since I first set foot in this game.


I am currently FtP and rolled up a classic Fighter to start....now 2 weeks later I see I messed him all up...he is getting earased. I've read countless builds and I cant seem to find any I want to play. PLease only post suggestion to the 2 builds I would like to make. I dont want to be a dwarf mage or a hobbit monk...Im more of a classic AD+D guy and like my characters with a old school build so please just give me the best suggestion for the following.


Sorta Pure Human Fighter....this guy is 50% solo and 50% group. I see now I need to throw in a level of rouge to find secret door and to be able to pick some locks (while using item buffs and the human enhancment thing). If I do take a rouge level I would like to keep it to one or two.

I picked cleave, heal, tumble, swimming....early with this guy and realized I wasted those points and feat picks. I read balance is good to have and have encountered a few Bugbears to make me agree.

I know I want luck of heros no matter what and I will be starting with 12 wisdom and 12 Int for extra save vrs will and skill points. I kept my dex at 10, and charisma at 8. I want this guy to be a fighter but I would also enjoy have a bettter then (normal fighter) chance of resisting a will save, detecting a door, and opening a lock. I dont care about traps, I will find a way around them or just suck up damage. I have read some of the advantages of having a 13 dex but I think I would rather have the 12/12 wis/int.


The next guy I didnt even bother rolling up yet, but I want a dwarven Fighter/Cleric of equal levels....I want to start him as a fighter and every other level go back and forth until he is 10/10. I dont care if it is a bad option, I'll find a way to play him..I just need to know what skills, feats, and enhansments I should look for.

This guy I will do some healing with, but mostly it will be buffing himself and others for combat. Dwarven Axe is what I want to use, but I will consider using a heavy mace, battle axe, morning star.....no swords with him.

Both of these characters will be using shields.

Thanks for reading this and any replys and help.

tihocan
10-29-2009, 06:09 AM
1st build: since you don't care about traps, don't invest in search. You can find clickies of detect secret doors quite easily (hunt some down on the AH), and later use scrolls of true seeing for instance. You might invest in spot if you want to spot them, but it's mostly wasted in the long term, since secret doors are pretty much always in the same places...
If you take 1 level of rogue you'll mostly want Open Locks and UMD. That's 4 skill points/level to keep them maxed out, so 14 Int is the goal. You can start with 12 and only put half the points in Open Locks, then when you get a +2 Int tome you can start maxing out Open Locks as well.
However, as a fighter, Intimidate can also be a useful skill if you are going to get into groups as well. So ideally my suggestion would be to start at 14 Int so you can get it as well.
Note that by taking 1 level of rogue you are locking yourself out of the L20 fighter capstone enhancement, which gives an extra +10% to attack speed, which is a significant boost in DPS.
The main reason to take a 2nd level of rogue is for evasion. But only do this if you are planning to use light armor (which means probably either a dex-based finesse build, or a DPS build that does not care about AC, which is fine too).

2nd build: you may want to go cleric 11 to be able to cast Heal/Blade barrier.

Anneliese
10-29-2009, 06:36 AM
To the second build:

At level 20, your buffs will be suboptimal, wont last long enough without extend and since you cant cast Heal from SP, your healing will suffer a lot as well (and you wont have a 100% chance for scrolls..that might be doable, but it will become expensive quick if you act as a party healer). Also, no efficient raid healing with mass healing, since your SP will be low and you only got cure mass light. Your melee damage will suffer a lot as well, since you are going onehanded, and Kensai I is not that good compared to II or III.

Conclusion:
In nearly all high parties, a ranger, bard or paladin will probably be more useful than your char. Its sort of like the fat nerdy kid when picking a team for sports in school..you will get picked last or only if you have friends or a lot of equipment/money.

Dont get fooled from the earlier levels, because then your char isnt that bad, quite good actually...its the high levels where you will get a lot of problems.


You can change this easily by going 11, better yet 12 cleric. Because then you can cast Heal, Cometfall, cure mass medium and blade barrier..some of the best spells available out there.


You could further enhance this by going 2 monk or 2 rogue with 12 cleric and 6 fighter, but thats probably too far from your original build.



If you really really want I could make a build for you with 10/10..but its like making a monk and putting him in heavy armor with a tower shield.

LumLevits
10-29-2009, 08:41 AM
1st build: since you don't care about traps, don't invest in search. You can find clickies of detect secret doors quite easily (hunt some down on the AH), and later use scrolls of true seeing for instance. You might invest in spot if you want to spot them, but it's mostly wasted in the long term, since secret doors are pretty much always in the same places...
If you take 1 level of rogue you'll mostly want Open Locks and UMD. That's 4 skill points/level to keep them maxed out, so 14 Int is the goal. You can start with 12 and only put half the points in Open Locks, then when you get a +2 Int tome you can start maxing out Open Locks as well.
However, as a fighter, Intimidate can also be a useful skill if you are going to get into groups as well. So ideally my suggestion would be to start at 14 Int so you can get it as well.
Note that by taking 1 level of rogue you are locking yourself out of the L20 fighter capstone enhancement, which gives an extra +10% to attack speed, which is a significant boost in DPS.
The main reason to take a 2nd level of rogue is for evasion. But only do this if you are planning to use light armor (which means probably either a dex-based finesse build, or a DPS build that does not care about AC, which is fine too).

2nd build: you may want to go cleric 11 to be able to cast Heal/Blade barrier.

So your saying, go with 14 INT and keep throwing skill points into Pick and UMD. I was under the impression I could just put one point into pick and cover the remaining skill points needed with clickies and human versitilty enhancment. Not having the 10% at the end will be missed, but being able to pick locks durring my leveling will be welcomed. Im not looking for the best in everything, just something that is good. I wont be using light armor since I plan on going with 10 dex so I'll skill the 2nd level of rogue.

Why UMD? I read some people want it for cure wands to save on gold. I've been using Hirelings and parking them in safe areas, either running back to them or calling them forward once I clear out the monsters.

Excellent feedback, thank you.





To the second build:

At level 20, your buffs will be suboptimal, wont last long enough without extend and since you cant cast Heal from SP, your healing will suffer a lot as well (and you wont have a 100% chance for scrolls..that might be doable, but it will become expensive quick if you act as a party healer). Also, no efficient raid healing with mass healing, since your SP will be low and you only got cure mass light. Your melee damage will suffer a lot as well, since you are going onehanded, and Kensai I is not that good compared to II or III.

Conclusion:
In nearly all high parties, a ranger, bard or paladin will probably be more useful than your char. Its sort of like the fat nerdy kid when picking a team for sports in school..you will get picked last or only if you have friends or a lot of equipment/money.

Dont get fooled from the earlier levels, because then your char isnt that bad, quite good actually...its the high levels where you will get a lot of problems.


You can change this easily by going 11, better yet 12 cleric. Because then you can cast Heal, Cometfall, cure mass medium and blade barrier..some of the best spells available out there.


You could further enhance this by going 2 monk or 2 rogue with 12 cleric and 6 fighter, but thats probably too far from your original build.



If you really really want I could make a build for you with 10/10..but its like making a monk and putting him in heavy armor with a tower shield.

I definatly wont take thief or monk with this guy. I understand the benifits. But taking the 2 extra levels in Cleric are a welcome suggestion with the points you made. I doubt I will be considered "the party healer" mostly my spells will be buffing myself and perhaps 1 or 2 others. They wont last as long as a 20th level cleric but I will cast them more often. As for healing, I would probably use scrolls, wands and potions most of the time. I want this guy to self buff and run in and clobber things.....with his high will save and protection spells I found him to be great in similair games. Again, not looking for the "perfect build" just something I can work with.

Great suggestions....thank you.

tihocan
10-29-2009, 09:11 AM
So your saying, go with 14 INT and keep throwing skill points into Pick and UMD. I was under the impression I could just put one point into pick and cover the remaining skill points needed with clickies and human versitilty enhancment. Not having the 10% at the end will be missed, but being able to pick locks durring my leveling will be welcomed. Im not looking for the best in everything, just something that is good. I wont be using light armor since I plan on going with 10 dex so I'll skill the 2nd level of rogue.
No, putting one point into Open Locks won't be enough. You want to dump at least half ranks in it (and probably a bit more with your low Dex). Otherwise when you reach the mid levels you'll find yourself unable to open some locks, even on a 20.


Why UMD? I read some people want it for cure wands to save on gold. I've been using Hirelings and parking them in safe areas, either running back to them or calling them forward once I clear out the monsters.
Long story short: if you don't take UMD, you'll regret it later. If you have to choose, choose UMD over open locks (UMD will let you use scrolls/wands of knock, which will do the trick for all low level locks, and even a few higher level ones).


As for healing, I would probably use scrolls, wands and potions most of the time. I want this guy to self buff and run in and clobber things.....
Buffs don't take that much SPs... you'll have plenty left to cast heals. And in the middle of a fight, at high level you'll love being able to cast the Heal spell.

MichaelBerea
10-29-2009, 11:44 AM
Regarding skills, you want as much balance as you can possibly get. Melee dps need a total of 10 jump unbuffed; then with easily available buffs you can keep it maxed out for your level. You want 1 point in tumble and it not to be negative in total since this gives you access to most of the benefits of tumbling. If you can get it you will love UMD for self-buffs, strong heals and cross-alignment or cross-race gear. Spot is nice because it helps you see invisible monsters and explore new quests. Half points in Open Locks is nice because you get a few extra chests. Haggle is not useless since it gives you a tiny amount of extra gold. Swim and heal are completely useless for everyone always.

For a fighter who can pick locks you want to put 18 points in fighter. Also take either 2 levels of Rogue, 1 Rogue and 1 Monk, or 1 Rogue and 1 Barbarian. Monk is probably the best with a bonus feat and a small improvement to saves. Rogue 2 gives you evasion which is not great unless you have a high dexterity and so a high reflex save. Barbarian 1 gives you a small increase in damage.
Take rogue as your first level if you are going to have any rogue because you will get more skill points.
Dwarf, Human and Warforged all have advantages. For a free to play build I recommend a Dwarf with an axe.
Power Attack is a must-have feat.
To qualify for the Kensai III Prestige Enhancement take the feats Weapon Specialization Slashing, Greater Weapon Specialization Slashing, Superior Weapon Focus Slashing.
To really have a blast try the feats Two Handed Fighting, Improved Two Handed Fighting and Greater Two Handed Fighting as a dwarf with a greataxe.
Cleave is a bump to your dps.
Taking the Toughness feat (once) and associated enhancements is useful but not necessary.
Fitting in a feat to improve your saves can be nice.
Some people like Skill Focus:UMD if they have spare feats.

It is worth noting that DDO tries to make you ignore class labels like “fighter”, “thief” and “cleric” and focus on how you want your character to play and what you want it to accomplish.

So for a melee dps with party buffs you should try the Axesinger (bard 15, fighter 3, rogue 2):
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289

For melee dps with lock pick consider the Ravager (Rogue 13 / Monk 1 / Ranger 6):
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=189681

But know that it is much easier to constantly group with 2+ people in the mid and late game. If you need to solo much past level 10 you pretty much have to play a Warforged Sorcerer, 32 point build stealth character or a 32 point build melee/divine combo like the battle-cleric. (32 point build means you get to spend 32 points on starting attributes instead of 28; this can be purchased in the DDO store or earned with favor by the time a character reaches level 15 or so. This is needed to have high Strength, Constitution and Intellect on top of maxing your main attribute like Wisdom or Dexterity.)

Anneliese
10-29-2009, 01:48 PM
For the dwarf cleric/fighter build:

I would go 12 cleric and 6 fighter until you are level 18.

Lawful Good

14 Str
10 Dex
16 Con
12 int
16 wis -> levelups here
06 cha

Max concentration when leveling up cleric, max jump when leveling up fighter, take balance with rest of points (if something remains, conc or jump). Put 1 into tumble at creation


Fighter Bonus Feats:
#1 Power Attack
#2 Weapon Focus: Slash
#4 Weapon Spec: Slash (for Kensai I)
#6 Improved Crit: Slash

Normal Feats:
#1 Toughness
#3 Extend
#6 Mental Toughness
#9 Empower Healing
#12 Maximize
#15 Empower
#18 Quicken


The leveling order doesnt matter much...just take 1 level of cleric until level 3, and dont take the 6th fighter level until your bab with it will be 8 (which means not before the 9th level), else improved crit wont fit in.

If you are level 18 and want more fighter levels, just add 2 and take an extra feat you like at 20.


Enhancements dont need to be preplanned much, you can exchange them every 3 days. Just be sure to take Kensai I at fighter level 6 and the cleric devotion enhancements.

LumLevits
10-29-2009, 05:28 PM
For the dwarf cleric/fighter build:

I would go 12 cleric and 6 fighter until you are level 18.
Lawful Good
14 Str
10 Dex
16 Con
12 int
16 wis -> levelups here
06 cha
Max concentration when leveling up cleric, max jump when leveling up fighter, take balance with rest of points (if something remains, conc or jump). Put 1 into tumble at creation

Fighter Bonus Feats:
#1 Power Attack
#2 Weapon Focus: Slash
#4 Weapon Spec: Slash (for Kensai I)
#6 Improved Crit: Slash

Normal Feats:
#1 Toughness
#3 Extend
#6 Mental Toughness
#9 Empower Healing
#12 Maximize
#15 Empower
#18 Quicken




Anneliese--this is awsome, this looks like exactly what I want to accomplish, thanks a million. :-)



MichaelBerea- Thanks for that reply. I wanted to clairify a few things though.

Are you saying the Skill Jump (natural 10, then buffs) help me on my damage per second? If so I has no idea jump did that, I though it was just used to get you out of being surrounded.

1 Point of Tumble--if I am wearing armor my tumble is negative. But I think your saying, just bring it up to 0 from creation if it is negative? If so, what negative effects does it have being negative before armor compaired to being 0 and then negative after I put armor on..(hope that made sense)

UMD- so this should be a priority.

Spot/Search- I want to be able to find secret doors. Dispite people saying detect secret door items are common, I only found a wand so far, that I could not use. I like spot also, for seeing hidden enemies but would rather take the sneak attack damage if I had to give up being able to find and open a secret door....what should I do here?

Open locks is another priority for me, I would rather give up attacking bonuses for a chance to get extra income from chests.

Haggle is another one I love, every gold saved adds up.

If I had my preferences on what to prioritize, it would be..

Balance- Hate getting knocked down....and it could be a game ender.

Open Locks- Dont want to miss extra income

Search- Dont want to miss extra experience and income

UMD- If it is really that importaint

Jump- Adding damage?

Haggle- Saving gold on purchasing and selling


So with all those skills, I think you saying, take Rogue level one because of the extra skill points...fighter after that...obviously I will need more INT for those skill points though....will 14 INT be enough?

MysterX
10-29-2009, 05:58 PM
Are you saying the Skill Jump (natural 10, then buffs) help me on my damage per second? If so I has no idea jump did that, I though it was just used to get you out of being surrounded. I don't think it will help with damage, just with getting to hard-to-reach mobs and escape from being surrounded

1 Point of Tumble--if I am wearing armor my tumble is negative. But I think your saying, just bring it up to 0 from creation if it is negative? If so, what negative effects does it have being negative before armor compaired to being 0 and then negative after I put armor on..(hope that made sense) Potions (and items) of tumbling are pretty common, but you need the 1 base skill point to 'unlock' the skill so that other buffs will have an effect

UMD- so this should be a priority. absolutely if you can put points into it -- wands and scrolls can sub for many other things, including rogue skills like Open Lock in some areas. It opens up lots of possibilities for gear choices.

Spot/Search- I want to be able to find secret doors. Dispite people saying detect secret door items are common, I only found a wand so far, that I could not use. I like spot also, for seeing hidden enemies but would rather take the sneak attack damage if I had to give up being able to find and open a secret door....what should I do here? if it is a choice between spot and search, sounds like you will prefer Search

Open locks is another priority for me, I would rather give up attacking bonuses for a chance to get extra income from chests. I don't think the amount of extra loot you get from being able to open locks is worth sacrificing damage for, since money will eventually not be a concern.

Haggle is another one I love, every gold saved adds up. It would probably be better to make another character with high charisma than to make Haggle a priority on the builds you asked for, and mail them items to sell, but keep a good haggle item on hand if you need to buy something from a vendor.

If I had my preferences on what to prioritize, it would be..

Balance- Hate getting knocked down....and it could be a game ender. Yeah this is a pretty important one that players coming from a PnP background tend to overlook.

Open Locks- Dont want to miss extra income

Search- Dont want to miss extra experience and income

UMD- If it is really that importaint Honestly, you should put this above Open Lock and Search, because in some cases, UMD can be used to do those things.

Jump- Adding damage?

Haggle- Saving gold on purchasing and selling


So with all those skills, I think you saying, take Rogue level one because of the extra skill points...fighter after that...obviously I will need more INT for those skill points though....will 14 INT be enough?

See other answers in line. Definitely makes major sense to take Rogue at level 1 if you only plan on having a small splash of rogue, as the double skill points is a great benefit. Fighter is typically feat-based rather than skill-based... so you may want to play around with a character planner to help prioritize skills as that seems to be an area where you'll have some tough choices (although depending on your fighting style you may be able to take some skill focus feats if you have some to spare).

tihocan
10-30-2009, 10:17 AM
So with all those skills, I think you saying, take Rogue level one because of the extra skill points...fighter after that...obviously I will need more INT for those skill points though....will 14 INT be enough?
You need to plan it to figure it out. Going to be tight since fighter and cleric only get 2 base skill points/level, and those should go into UMD. That leaves only 2 extra skill points (+the rogue levels) for other skills, which is going to be difficult given all you want to get.

And really, really don't take search. Go for spot instead. That way, you'll get a notice when there's a hidden door nearby, and you can use a clicky or wand of detect secret door (remember you can use the wand with UMD) to find it.