PDA

View Full Version : Two weapon fighting with scimitars..



lordbachus
10-27-2009, 10:54 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... and have no more pennalties then when fighting with 2 shortswords...

-Scimitars are not considered light weapons but one handed weapons, normally i'd expect to need the feat oversized 2 weapon fighting for that... but then scimitars have allways been special... just nothing in the rules about it...

Visty
10-27-2009, 10:56 AM
no matter what you use, youll always have -2 tohit on both hands, thats the tradeoff for dualwielding

in addition, if youre offhand is not a light weapon, you get another -2/-2 for a total of -4/-4 tohit

Kaldais
10-27-2009, 10:56 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... and have no more pennalties then when fighting with 2 shortswords...

-Scimitars are not considered light weapons but one handed weapons, normally i'd expect to need the feat oversized 2 weapon fighting for that... but then scimitars have allways been special... just nothing in the rules about it...

You will need OTWF if you want to dual Scimis without penalty.

TFPAQ
10-27-2009, 11:37 AM
OTWF will reduce your penalty from -4 / -4 (Main Hand / Off Hand) to -2 / -2

Additionally if you have a ranger build with Tempest, Tempest 2 reduces penalty by 1 to -1 / -1 and Tempest 3 reduces it again to 0 / 0.

Makes Power Attack more viable on Elite for some builds.

Lorechaser
10-28-2009, 01:39 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... and have no more pennalties then when fighting with 2 shortswords...

-Scimitars are not considered light weapons but one handed weapons, normally i'd expect to need the feat oversized 2 weapon fighting for that... but then scimitars have allways been special... just nothing in the rules about it...

Bah. Scimitars have only been special since a certain over-angsted reformed dark elf drug his straggly be-hind out of the Underdark and started naming swords "Twinkle".

However, if you don't want the feat, the Kensai bonuses can pretty well negate the TWF penalties with the high to hit bonus....

Brennie
10-28-2009, 02:22 AM
Bah. Scimitars have only been special since a certain over-angsted reformed dark elf drug his straggly be-hind out of the Underdark and started naming swords "Twinkle".

However, if you don't want the feat, the Kensai bonuses can pretty well negate the TWF penalties with the high to hit bonus....

Additionally, the Tempest enhancement line will help melt away TWF penalties.

Supposedly, at end game melee-types have such high to-hit from strength/dex, BaB, boosts, gear, buffs, etc, that the -2 from weilding a non-light weapon in the offhand is negligable.

Aranticus
10-28-2009, 03:12 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... and have no more pennalties then when fighting with 2 shortswords...

-Scimitars are not considered light weapons but one handed weapons, normally i'd expect to need the feat oversized 2 weapon fighting for that... but then scimitars have allways been special... just nothing in the rules about it...

elves and dwarves can easily negate these penalties by using racial weapon and spending some APs on racial attack bonuses. if your char is an elf, it shouldnt pose much of a problem unless your strength is very low

ReaperAlexEU
10-28-2009, 06:02 AM
scimitars are medium weapons not light. you can't finesse them either. i think you might have got mixed up with rapiers. the rapier is the only medium weapon that can be finessed, however its still too heavy to use in the offhand without either the penalties being applied or needing oversized twf feat.

Aranticus
10-28-2009, 06:12 AM
scimitars are medium weapons not light. you can't finesse them either. i think you might have got mixed up with rapiers. the rapier is the only medium weapon that can be finessed, however its still too heavy to use in the offhand without either the penalties being applied or needing oversized twf feat.

mod 8 yes, mod 9 no. elves get aerenal or valenar weapon enhancements. 1 is for rapiers/longswords, the other is scimitar/falchions


Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Prerequisites: Level 4 Elf, Weapon Proficiency: Falchion or Scimitar, Follower of the Undying Court, or Favored by the Undying Court; Must not have Aerenal Elf Melee Attack enhancements
Cost: 2 Action Points
Benefit: Hailing from Valenar, you prefer curved blades to the straight weapons of the Aerenal elves. You gain an additional +1 bonus to attack rolls when using a scimitar or falchion.
Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Prerequisites: Level 10 Elf, Valenar Elf Melee Attack I, 32 Action Points spent
Cost: 4 Action Points
Benefit: Hailing from Valenar, you prefer curved blades to the straight weapons of the Aerenal elves. You gain an additional +1 bonus to attack rolls when using a scimitar or falchion, bringing the total bonus to +2.

ReaperAlexEU
10-28-2009, 06:24 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... and have no more pennalties then when fighting with 2 shortswords...

-Scimitars are not considered light weapons but one handed weapons, normally i'd expect to need the feat oversized 2 weapon fighting for that... but then scimitars have allways been special... just nothing in the rules about it...

well the OP was saying the scimitar was special and was wondering if it might be an exception to the rule. i thought the OP might have got mixed up with the rapier that is indeed special as its the only medium weapon that can be finessed. aside from racial bonuses the scimitar follows the rules just like a longsword does, so the OP will need oversized twf to avoid the penalties.

the racial bonuses are nice, and can offset the penalty, or given the oversized feat they could add to the attack bonus.

so i guess what your saying is there is a choice between spending a feat or spending 6 action points. good to have options :)

MDS_Geist
10-28-2009, 06:25 AM
Bah. Scimitars have only been special since a certain over-angsted reformed dark elf drug his straggly be-hind out of the Underdark and started naming swords "Twinkle".


Well, that and the fact that they have such a nice critical range. :)

Letrii
10-28-2009, 06:31 AM
There is no such thing as medium weapons, unless you referring to size in which case every weapon we use is a medium weapon since we are medium size races. Unless halfling in which you are small, but they didn't code in lower damage for halflings, I don't think.

What you meant, I think, is scimitars are one hand weapons, as opposed to being light or two hand weapons.

ReaperAlexEU
10-28-2009, 07:18 AM
yes, i was referring to the weapons by their DnD classification, old habits and all that :)

not every weapon is medium if you use its size, as medium creatures we can use a large weapon with 2 hands, which is why a greataxe is a 2 hander for us, and why that mino in gianthold has a greataxe in each hands. halflings get the best of both worlds, all their size bonuses without the weapon size penalty (like rangers getting both ranged and twf paths).

anyway, the point i was trying to make is scimitars are not an exception to any rule. rapiers on the other hand do stand out as they are the only medium/1-handed weapon you can use with the finesse feat. so i thought the OP might have got rapiers ans scimitars a bit mixed up with regards to being exceptions to the rule. just adding a bit more info to the thread as no-one had addressed the OP's feeling that scimitars might have been an exception

captain1z
10-28-2009, 07:23 AM
Will i be able to duall wield 2 scimitars with the 2 weapon fighting feat... .

For Khybers sake dont name yourself Drizzt or anything that looks like it.
I saw a Drizzt clone the other day and looked him up on my DDO....... He was level 14 with 160 hp and an AC of 24

Dont be that guy.

Aranticus
10-28-2009, 07:40 AM
For Khybers sake dont name yourself Drizzt or anything that looks like it.
I saw a Drizzt clone the other day and looked him up on my DDO....... He was level 14 with 160 hp and an AC of 24

Dont be that guy.

or raistlin ...... 6 con casters....

TFPAQ
10-28-2009, 07:54 AM
On epic level quests that extra -2 does come into play. On Lammie we had a lot of people having to turn off PA (and some with CE) to hit. Rangers that had FE on the mobs were ok (who has gnolls for cripes sake?, undead ok), but the only guys hitting consistently were Kensai with SB and the Barbs.

Angelus_dead
10-28-2009, 08:01 AM
not every weapon is medium if you use its size, as medium creatures we can use a large weapon with 2 hands, which is why a greataxe is a 2 hander for us, and why that mino in gianthold has a greataxe in each hands.
Not true at all.

ReaperAlexEU
10-28-2009, 08:24 AM
Not true at all.

care to elaborate? we don't use 3.5 weapon sizing where the damage dice shift up and down, so the older 3.0 sizing model is the best fit. halflings don't fit into either 3.5 or 3.0 rules as turbine have just ignored their small size in weapon calculations. so what exactly is wrong with using the 3.0 model to look at the DDO system? yes we have the 3.5 naming convention, but the nuts and bolts mimic the 3.0 system.

so what exactly is wrong with that bit you quoted?