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View Full Version : Make Radiant Servant (Cleric PrE) turn and healing based



Favis
10-24-2009, 09:05 AM
background:
Radiant Servants are particular good at two things -- healing and turning undead. They should seek to do those things as often as possible. In many fights, a radiant servant's prodigious healing ability is all that stands between his companions and death, while his ability to turn undead can annihilate foes before they decimate the party.
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070807).

Sugestion

Cleric Radiant Servant of The Sovereign Host I
Ministering to the needs of good folk everywhere and protect them from the rising tide of evil, You hold a particular hatred for undead and become a puissant healer.
This prestige enhancement makes you able to turn fire, ice, earth and air elementals. All you turningar are counted as greater turning. So that undeads/elementals that would flee in fear are destroyed instead. You also gain Healing Devotion I so all you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure spells) for one min act as been effected by the empower Spell feat but costing no extra spell points, consuming a use of your turn undead ability.
Cost: 4 action points

Cleric Radiant Servant of The Sovereign Host II
Ministering to the needs of good folk everywhere and protect them from the rising tide of evil, You hold a particular hatred for undead and continue your training as a puissant healer and a destoyer of evil. Cleric Divine Might works for dubble the time. You also gain Sacred Vengeance giving you 2d6 points extra damage on melee attacks against undead of the time of Divine Might. You also gain Divine Spell Power raising you spellpenetration with 4 for one min, consuming a use of your turn undead ability. You also gain Healing Devotion II so all you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure spells) for one min act as been effected by the maximize Spell feat but costing no extra spell points, consuming a use of your turn undead ability (This ability supersedes Divine Healing Metamagic I).
Cost: 2 action points


Cleric Radiant Servant of The Sovereign Host III
Ministering to the needs of good folk everywhere and protect them from the rising tide of evil, You hold a particular hatred for undead and continue your training as a puissant healer and a destoyer of evil.
This prestige enhancement gives you Superior Turning, that makes you turning beeing calculated in a new way. All the Undead in the area (no limit in number) get the save: Will save or destroyed. A successful Fortitude save make them cover in fear. The Save DC for this ability is "cleric level when attempting to turn undead" + Charisma Modifier. You gain Divine Vigor increasing you running speed with xx% for 1 min, consuming a use of your turn undead ability. Healing Devotion III (In addition to the effect of Healing Devotion II) All you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure or heal spells) for one min act as been effected by the Quicken spell feat but costing no extra spell points, consuming a use of your turn undead ability.
Cost: 2 action points

Other suggestions:
sirgogs suggestion (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2506820&postcount=3)
Aesops suggestion (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2506841&postcount=4)

Favis
10-24-2009, 09:15 AM
The suggestion is base on the discussion in:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=208978.
(Thanks every on in that thread for your contribution)

My origial intention was to suggeset that one of the three PrE enhancments of Cleric should be turned based.
I sincerly think that turning undead can add much fun to playing the Cleric.

Some of the critic agains my original sugestion was:
*)turning will not work in many mission and so making it a core for a PrE would not be possible sticking to D&D 3.5
*) the prestige classes are allready settled and no one of them are only turned based.

So I looked at the prestige classes that Turbin had sayed they would work on (making them PrE).
And to my "luck" of them had turning as one of it's to focus.
It also adressed the problem that there is nothing to turn in many missions using "Divine Feats". Some of them have allready been added by turbin as enhancments while I tryied to incoperated others into my sugestion.

LIST of extra ablities that turning undead can be tranformed to according to my suggestion (1st post):
(each one consuming a use of your turn undead ability)
turn Fire Elementals
turn Ice Elementals
turn Earth Elementals
turn Air Elementals
Divine Spell Power raising you spellpenetration with 4 for one min.
Divine Vigor increasing you running speed with xx% for 1 min.
Healing Devotion I so all you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure spells) for one min act as been effected by the empower Spell feat but costing no extra spell points.
Healing Devotion II so all you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure spells) for one min act as been effected by the maximize Spell feat but costing no extra spell points (This ability supersedes Divine Healing Metamagic I).
Healing Devotion III (In addition to the effect of Healing Devotion II) All you spells cast in the Healing domain (cure or heal spells) for one min act as been effected by the Quicken spell feat but costing no extra spell points.


LIST of of abilites that are increased in strength:
Cleric Divine Might works for dubble the time. You also gain Sacred Vengeance giving you 2d6 points extra damage on melee attacks against undead of the time of Divine Might.
Greater turning, all the undeads/elementals that would flee in fear are destroyed instead.
Superior Turning, that makes you turning beeing calculated in a new way. All the Undead in the area (no limit in number) get the save: Will save or destroyed. A successful Fortitude save make them cover in fear. The Save DC for this ability is "cleric level when attempting to turn undead" + Charisma Modifier. (replace greater turning).


Cost: 2 action points

Other suggestions:
sirgogs suggestion (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2506820&postcount=3)
Aesops suggestion (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2506841&postcount=4)

sirgog
10-24-2009, 09:25 AM
Although I like the feel of this Radiant Servant, I feel it would be incredibly overpowered.

My idea of the target power level should be more like this:


Tier 1: +5% healing output (all spells), your turn attempts deal 3d10 positive damage to all undead and evil outsiders in range (whether they are affected by the turn or not).

Tier 2: +5% more healing output (total 10%), 3 more turns, 10d10 damage, also gain 3/rest Shield of Light - a single target buff that grants an ally 100 temporary HP (duration 1 minute)

Tier 3: 5% more healing, 50d10 turn damage (equivalent to 1 tick of a max-empped BB), Shield of Light becomes Mass Shield of Light and grants 200 temp HP instead.


That's a basic idea that keeps the positive energy feel while not granting +150% healing like your draft did (which would make every non-Radiant healer build totally obsolete).

Aesop
10-24-2009, 09:41 AM
1. +10% more from Healing. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.

2. +5% Crit Chance for Healing Spells. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.
2a. Greater Turning: Costs: 2 Turn Attempts. Effect: Instead of being Turned Affected Undead are Destroyed... obviously doesn't affect reds or purples.

3. +.5 Crit Multiplier for Healing Spells. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.
3a. Bane of Undeath: You are wreathed in positive energy. Undead that strike you take 4d6 Light Damage. Undead you Strike take 4d6 Light Damage. Costs 1 Turn Attempts. Lasts 1 min.


Aesop

Nyvn
10-24-2009, 09:45 AM
1. +10% more from Healing. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.

2. +5% Crit Chance for Healing Spells. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.
2a. Greater Turning: Costs: 2 Turn Attempts. Effect: Instead of being Turned Affected Undead are Destroyed... obviously doesn't affect reds or purples.

3. +.5 Crit Multiplier for Healing Spells. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.
3a. Bane of Undeath: You are wreathed in positive energy. Undead that strike you take 4d6 Light Damage. Undead you Strike take 4d6 Light Damage. Costs 1 Turn Attempts. Lasts 1 min.


Aesop


For a total of 6 less SP for Empower and 9 less SP for Maximize?

Favis
10-24-2009, 09:45 AM
Although I like the feel of this Radiant Servant, I feel it would be incredibly overpowered.

Nice that you like the feeling. As you say it a "draft". And the most importent part for me is to keep the direction (turning & healing).


granting +150% healing like your draft did

I need to correct my orignal post on this. It was my purpus that the "empower" and "maximize" effect only should effect the spell that are effected by the feats (eg the cure spells).


My idea of the target power level should be more like this:

Tier 1: +5% healing output (all spells), your turn attempts deal 3d10 positive damage to all undead and evil outsiders in range (whether they are affected by the turn or not).

Tier 2: +5% more healing output (total 10%), 3 more turns, 10d10 damage, also gain 3/rest Shield of Light - a single target buff that grants an ally 100 temporary HP (duration 1 minute)

Tier 3: 5% more healing, 50d10 turn damage (equivalent to 1 tick of a max-empped BB), Shield of Light becomes Mass Shield of Light and grants 200 temp HP instead.


That's a basic idea that keeps the positive energy feel while not granting +150% healing like your draft did (which would make every non-Radiant healer build totally obsolete).

Thanks for you feed back :)

coolpenguin410
10-24-2009, 10:04 AM
I could see it if the boosts to healing were short term, like 1 minute in duration and limited to only 3/rest.
The only reason I could find this acceptable is because at least 50% of this healing is going to waste. Clerics and FvS's specced for healing are already over healing.

I would LOVE the greater turning enhancements. It'd be nice for turning to actually become useful in this game.

Favis
10-24-2009, 10:12 AM
1. +10% more from Healing. 2 Extra Turns. +1 Turn Level. Empower costs 2 less SP. Maximize costs 3 less SP.
...


First I like to explain why I have lessen the spellcost instead of increasing the effect - on heal and mass heal - in my suggestion (eg when quicken is on).
My purpuse was that burst healing should not be increased becource of the prestige class but how long time you could heal.
It might be that my sugestion is a bit overpower from lvl 6 - 10 (when you basicaly get empower cure xxx for the same cost as cure xxx). As you basicaly have a 67% of the spellcost of healing then. But comparing to FvS ...
But giving more burst healing (eg adding xx% to healing after metamagic are added) might change the game balance more.
Would be intresting to get you comment on that Aesop :)

Favis
10-24-2009, 10:30 AM
I would LOVE the greater turning enhancements. It'd be nice for turning to actually become useful in this game.
Thanks :)
The main purpuse for me to do this post is that turning to actually could become useful.



I could see it if the boosts to healing were short term, like 1 minute in duration and limited to only 3/rest.
The only reason I could find this acceptable is because at least 50% of this healing is going to waste. Clerics and FvS's specced for healing are already over healing.

I guess I need to re-write my suggestions concering the healing parts.

Aesop
10-25-2009, 12:41 PM
For a total of 6 less SP for Empower and 9 less SP for Maximize?

something like that... could be brought up or down depending

Aesop
10-25-2009, 12:51 PM
First I like to explain why I have lessen the spellcost instead of increasing the effect - on heal and mass heal - in my suggestion (eg when quicken is on).
My purpuse was that burst healing should not be increased becource of the prestige class but how long time you could heal.
It might be that my sugestion is a bit overpower from lvl 6 - 10 (when you basicaly get empower cure xxx for the same cost as cure xxx). As you basicaly have a 67% of the spellcost of healing then. But comparing to FvS ...
But giving more burst healing (eg adding xx% to healing after metamagic are added) might change the game balance more.
Would be intresting to get you comment on that Aesop :)

Mostly I was going with the K.I.S.S. method for what I proposed

I put the cost reduction on the Metamagics instead of on the Spells because of past practice. They've not done spell cost reductions in the past so I don't expect it now.

I don't really play clerics too often, but if the over healing is true, then I think that this way would allow for use of lower spell level healing in general thus enabling a lower overall cost in SP, while maintaining the ability to SPLORCH undead with the higher level Healing Spells. Instead of Mass Cure Mod to heal the group a Radiant Servant could use Mass Cure Light and heal the whole group for less than the Non Radiant Servant could then then drop a Mass Cure Mod on splorch a whole group of Undead.... or something like that..

It may also be good to have Empower Healing have an SP reduction in there perhaps 1 per level ...

so -3 SP on EH -6 on Emp and -9 on Max... thus saving a full out heal spec 18 SP per heal


Aesop