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Gunnery188
10-24-2009, 02:10 AM
Hello All!

I honestly hate asking for so much help but I am really confused by the character system. Never got to big into D and D but really enjoy what I have played so far. A few years ago I rolled a bard and hit lvl 7 or 8 don't remember. Loved it. But now I am really just out of it when it comes to creating this new bard. I rolled a new one got a feel for the game again. I hit level 4 but made a ton of mistakes. Ready to reroll a new one and I need some major help.

I want a Warchanter Halfling specced for maximum melee buffs. The order of importance to me would be Buffs/DPS/Healing/CC. Honestly I don't have to DPS at all if Healing would be more useful in a Raid environment. Though from what I have seen on the Bard forums is, Warchanters are more about the buffs than really anything else. I really want a jack of all trades person. Drop my buffs, dps when needed, if the healers are overwhelmed toss some heals.

So I need the guidance of a player that is much better than me to please please please chart out a character for me that meets these requirements. I don't mind going the 18 Bard / 2 Rogue if its better. I just really need a map and honestly I don't think I can make one properly with the information I have.

I throw myself upon the mercy of ye great bard players. Please help!

Edit I searched around for a few premade done characters but I didn't find anything that was like this, most were just odd combos or things that people said didn't work anymore.

Petrovskis
10-24-2009, 02:48 AM
The issue with bards is that is is difficult to do really good buffs (songs/spells) AND high dps AND good cc AND healing.

As a rule you and usually do 2 out of 4 of the above without huge amounts of +2 tomes and elite items.

A warchanter bard will usually have high strength and be best at buffs and DPS. A well rounded warchanter can throw the odd cc spell but it probably won't land esp on end game content. Warchanters can heal; although they usually don't have the enhancements to maximise this potential. The main use of a warchanters healing spells are for emergencies; otherwise you will mostly use wands/scrolls.

A spellsinger on the otherhand will usually have a maximised charisma score. This enables the save DCs to be as high as possible. Their songs are not as good at boosting DPS for the whole party; but in combination with the CC provided it can be an excellent combination. Spellsingers often use repeating crossbows to remain out of combat to maximise their DPS/CC potential.

Although i cannot help you decide between these two styles (i know i am ignoring virtuoso!) i can give you the build plan that i am currently following.

Human

starting stats
str 16 (as high as possible on 28 point buys without using lots of points)
dex 14 (incase i want to splash 2 levels of rogue later for evasion; it keeps my options open)
con 14 (really need this at least...bards almost always suffer from low hp)
int 8 (dump stat for me; you get enough skill points as a human to keep UMD/perform/haggle/jump/balance maximised)
wis 8 (dump stat as well; your will saves will suffer, but i plan on taking 'force of personailty' which uses your charisma bonus to will saves instead of wisdom modifier)
char 14 (as high as possible without compromising on str or con)

I took the following feats
L1. toughness and two handed fighting
L3. weapon focus: blugeoning (i use mauls because i like the look of them...)
L6 power attack (L3 and L6 feats give you access to warchanter)
L9. improved two handed fighting
L12. improved critical blugeoning
L15. greater two handed fighting
L18. force of personality

I play this character as a casting barbarian. I buff up and then go hit stuff using displacement to save the worst of the damage.

It is great for soloing if you are careful.

Anyways, i hope this gives you an idea or two. No doubt other people wil give you alternative ideas.

Petrov

Lehrman
10-24-2009, 06:23 AM
Halfling:
Str 12
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 14

Bard 16 / Fi 2 / Ro 2 - Warchanter

B-1.) FoP
F-3.) Empower Healing
F-3.) WeaponFocus: Pierce
B-6.) Power attack
B-9.) Extend
F-12.) TWF
F-12.) Toughness
B-15.) ITWF
B-18.) GTWF

A similar build with a human, but with higher strength will yield better one-on-one DPS. If human, then only 1 fighter level instead of 2 and you will get the same number of feats while keeping access to 6th level spells. Halfling sneak attack damage enhancement more than offsets the str loss when not in one-on-one matches.

If you work weapon finesse into the build and put your lvling points into dex, you will be able to hit consistently as well. Extend is nice for haste, but probably not mandatory as long as tyou are willing to cast more often.

Arianrhod
10-24-2009, 08:24 AM
If CC is lowest of 4 things in your priority order, best not take any CC spells (well, maybe a couple persistent AOE types like Glitterdust & Otto's Sphere of Dancing - they often catch a couple even with low save DCs). Your "CC" will probably be more effective with a Paralyzing weapon than with any spell you cast ;) The occasional Fascinate song might happen, but with the difficulty of keeping groupmembers from each attacking a separate fascinated creature (sigh) or using AOEs on a fascinated group, many bards save their songs for buffing...the damage reduction chant is pretty short duration, I believe.

dopey69
10-24-2009, 09:11 AM
Hello All!

I honestly hate asking for so much help but I am really confused by the character system. Never got to big into D and D but really enjoy what I have played so far. A few years ago I rolled a bard and hit lvl 7 or 8 don't remember. Loved it. But now I am really just out of it when it comes to creating this new bard. I rolled a new one got a feel for the game again. I hit level 4 but made a ton of mistakes. Ready to reroll a new one and I need some major help.

I want a Warchanter Halfling specced for maximum melee buffs. The order of importance to me would be Buffs/DPS/Healing/CC. Honestly I don't have to DPS at all if Healing would be more useful in a Raid environment. Though from what I have seen on the Bard forums is, Warchanters are more about the buffs than really anything else. I really want a jack of all trades person. Drop my buffs, dps when needed, if the healers are overwhelmed toss some heals.

So I need the guidance of a player that is much better than me to please please please chart out a character for me that meets these requirements. I don't mind going the 18 Bard / 2 Rogue if its better. I just really need a map and honestly I don't think I can make one properly with the information I have.

I throw myself upon the mercy of ye great bard players. Please help!

Edit I searched around for a few premade done characters but I didn't find anything that was like this, most were just odd combos or things that people said didn't work anymore.

don't be sorry for comming to the forums and asking about what you don't know.the vets are happy to see a new player actually ask before gimping themselves beyond repair.usually the ones that take time to get the right information from those who know will have more fun and like ddo all the more . another tip don't be afraid to reroll to get it right , the first 7 or eight lvls are so ez to get back if you are not happy with the toons progress by lvl 8 well...........off with they heads! lol you can do lvl 7 0r 8 on a weekend ne ways .I no there is some peeps out there that can do it in an afternoon lol I am not one of those ! but on a rainy weekend such as now I would have no problem running up to the 7 to 9 area . remember have fun out there and keep your guitar tuned!

Gunnery188
10-24-2009, 01:52 PM
Thank you all for the help so far. I would love to see a few more ideas as well. To change everything a bit, my main focus will be on Buffs and DPS. I will pick up a few heal spells in a pinch but those will not be anything spectacular. We can forget about CC.

Gunnery188
10-24-2009, 06:56 PM
Okay I listened to everyones advice as much as possible. How does this look for a pure bard Warchanter build. Focused on Buffing and DPS.

Please tell me if this would work long term, solo, endgame, etc? I would like to roll only one character since I am not a fan of alts.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Bard)
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 692
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 17
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 12 15
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 7 26
Bluff 6 27
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy 6 26
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 26
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 5
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 1 4
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 6 26
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 1 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 6 26

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (2): Rage
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion III


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Shadow Walk
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion IV


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Cat's Grace
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Fox's Cunning
Spell (6): Mass Eagle's Spendor
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (6): Mass Fox's Cunning


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Muscial Prodigy
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

Gunnery188
10-25-2009, 12:32 AM
Anyone mind taking a look over the build I posted? I don't really understand the Skill Points. Were those decent choices?

ivar415
10-25-2009, 12:46 AM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Skill_usefulness

Judge for yourself. Bluff is not a good choice, as I hear. A decent early jump skill pushed to about 10, and Spot will help you much more.

Having Heal in the positive (2 ish) is a nice boon at the shrines too.

tigerknee123
10-25-2009, 01:43 AM
well my suggeston is to take out that weapon focus its doing you no good since you can buff you self you should have no problem hitting things instend take toughness to increse you Hp

Tuney
10-25-2009, 01:58 AM
Umm Weapon focus : (Melee weapon) is a required feat for warchanter.

Gunnery188
10-25-2009, 03:10 AM
well my suggeston is to take out that weapon focus its doing you no good since you can buff you self you should have no problem hitting things instend take toughness to increse you Hp

I thought that was required for the warchanter?

Waffle_Stomper
10-25-2009, 04:33 AM
New to the game myself, but my first run through has been on a Bard. I came to the forums to get some general advice on what I was trying to do (helped a lot) and the rest I just had to improvise along the way. I can say that it's been a learning experience. In hind sight there are some things I would have done a bit differently, but my Bard does ok. I'll try to give you the best advice I can from what I have learned being in a similar situation.

1) Feats - I took toughness at first level. Then after that I took the feats I needed for Warchanter. I thought it was really helpful to get into that asap because that's what I was gunning for. I think it was a good idea. After that I picked up extend to make my buff spells last longer and conserve SP. That's been a big help. Then I started working on my TWF feats. At this point I would say it's up to you with what you're looking to do with your build.

2) Spells - I only take spells to buff myself or the party. My CHA isn't that great because I had to focus on melee stats, so my offensive spells are pretty much useless. I use Blur and Displacement to help me survive. Unless you build for max AC it seems to become somewhat less important, so your best strategy is to make mobs miss you. Haste will also be great for boosting up your DPS. I don't have many SP, so what I like to do is enter a dungeon with a SP item on, cast my buffs, and then replace that item with something else. That's helped me to conserve my SP. I also wait for anyone else with a huge SP pool to hand out their buffs first.

3) Pure or Multiclass - I multiclassed on my Bard. I got a lot of benefits from it, but I also kind of wonder if I should have kept pure. In the end my songs would have been a little better if I stayed pure. But if you do find yourself wanting to multiclass, definitely make sure you take at least 15 levels of Bard. Level 15 is when you get your AC Dodge bonus song and that's a great song to have.

4) Enhancements - Try to focus all your enhancement points towards your songs because that's what everyone really wants you in their group for. Your songs will make everyone better. You can avoid the healing ones if you like. You're just going to provide assistance to those who can heal better than you, so don't worrying about maxing your heals out because the burden won't be on you, you're just helping. My Bard is not healing focused and he's been able to help out and on occasions keep up a small group who works with him. If you can keep your songs as good as possible, feel free to put your other enhancement points anywhere you see fit for yourself.

I hope this helps a bit. Some of the other advice you have got here in this thread is pretty sound. Bard isn't hard, it can just be a bit tricky sometimes. Try to figure out what you really want and how you can do it, and go from there. Most importantly, have fun with it! I know I am on my Warchanter. If you happen to be on Sarlona I wouldn't mind talking to you about any questions you have.

Cheers! :)

EDIT: Yes, you will need a weapon focus feat for Warchanter, so you can't drop that one. :P